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Rough projections if we stand pat

So, the new hot thing around here is the reformation of the Giants team.  Trades and such.  But I want to talk about four more years.  I want to talk about this team and how it will do as currently constructed (MINUS MOTHEFUCKING DENKER. FUCK YOU SABEAN, YOU STUPID FUCK).  Anyways, yeah…


Basically, what I’m doing here is trying to estimate what we’ll get at each position assuming we make no moves this offseason.  Assume rose-tinted glasses and such.  However, I honestly don’t know how to translate a line into VORP, RC, or anything else, so this is my best estimate.  I’m even worse doing that with defense, so again just estimates.  Partly, I’m hoping someone can explain to me a little how to do it.  The more statistically inclined please give feedback/criticism/tear me to shreds (Anyone can give feedback, just stick to your strengths).  Any criticism will be met peacefully if it’s backed up with evidence/support.  The +/- here are just the difference in runs from 2008 to 2009.  10 runs is ~1 win.

Offense/Defense:

C: Bengie: -5/-5 – Just a natural, slight offensive and defensive decline.

1B: Ishikawa: +10/+10 – 1B was a disaster offensively and defensively in 2008.  I honestly think these projections are conservative compared to what we got.

2B: Frandsen: -10/+10 –Frandsen can’t replicate Durham offensively but he can make up for it some defensively.  The overall +- might be a little optimistic.

3B: Sandoval: +10/0 – I realize Sandoval probably won’t get the bulk share at 3B, but I guess he might.  Regardless, this was another fucking wasteland for the 2008 Giants and if they can’t do better than this, shame on them.

SS: Burriss: +20/-10 – Burriss should be a huge upgrade offensively at SS (and that’s not saying much) but Vizquel and Ochoa were amazing defensively.

LF: Lewis: +5/-5 – Small improvements offensively and a small step back defensively.  

CF: Rowand: 0/-5 – Defensively this year was out of line, I’m expecting some regression.

RF: Winn: -5/-5 – More a playing time concern than an actual regression.  I assume Schierholtz will take some of his playing time (along with some of the playing time of Lewis and Rowand).

4th OF: Schierholtz: +5/0

Offense/Defense Total: +30/-10

O/D Total: +20

Pitching:

Lincecum: -5 – Some regression.  I’d like to believe he’ll just get better, but the safe bet is the other way.

Cain: +5 – Slight improvements (every offseason I’m perpetually optimistic for him to turn into an ace and I’m hoping +20).

Zito: +10 – Hoping he keeps his velocity up for the whole 2009 season, and that the correlation of the velocity gain in the 2nd half with the improved pitching continues (thanks WalrusMan).

Sanchez: +5: I would expect small gains, but he has the possibility to break out so I think this is conservative.

5th: +5: Our fifth starter was fucking terrible all year, it will be better this year and there is the potential that it will be much better.

Pitching Total: +20

Total Total: +40

Clearly, I'm ignoring bench and bullpen here, but those are pretty finicky beasts that are slaves to random fluctuation.  It's probably not worth it to try and predict something so random.

2008 Record: 72-90 (pythag: 1st: 68-93, 2nd: 71-91, 3rd: 70-92)
2009, No-changes, marcello projected record: 76-86

Opinions please.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

2 recs  |  Comment 46 comments

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When you’re projecting, I think it makes more sense to use the Pythagorean W-L instead of the actual W-L. Our Pythagorean W-L this year was 68-94. Add 40 runs and you get….72-90, same record as this year.

Except for that, it looks pretty good. You’re way more optimistic than I am regarding all four of our IF’s, but I also expect our bullpen to get better. PLUS WE’RE GONNA SIGN SABATHIA!!!

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 11, 2008 5:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point. Although clearly we outstripped our pythag because of Bochy…..

As for the infield, the optimism is based on the fact that it would be difficult for them to be as bad as last year.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we also outstripped our Pythag because we were 10 games over .500 in 1-run games

Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?

by Speedforthewin on Oct 11, 2008 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We also outstripped our Pythag because it’s shy, and we were willing to show some butt.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 11, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha

I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Oct 12, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

bochy?

psh
WARRIOR SPIRIT!!!

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Oct 11, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still left wonders why the manager is credited w/ beating the pythag differential

I’ve seem man, many people state it, but none actually provide sound evidence and reasoning for it.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 11, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd expect Rowand to do a little better than this

and Lewis to do much worse offensively (not sure where the defensive difference comes from, though). Ultimately it adds up to almost the same number of additional runs.

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Oct 11, 2008 9:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, Rowand’s put up basically the same numbers 3 of the last 4 years and they fall in line pretty well with his career numbers. Obviously it’ll depend on how lucky he is with hits, but I don’t really think he’s a much better hitter than what he put up this year. As for Lewis, some measures had him as one of the best LF in baseball and I expect that to regress some. Offensively, I realize he was hit lucky this year, but I’m expecting him to become a better hitter to offset the change in luck.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. He was clearly hurt or unlucky during the second half, but he was definitely flukey good during the first.

by rotorueter on Oct 11, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

shockingly, the Giants IF in 2008 was slightly better (sOPS+ 84) than it was in 2007 (sOPS+ 80).
I think the OF will be about the same. Obviously they have to find someone do put up better than

1B .313/.371
SS .295/.281 (!)
3B .306/.402

The problem is, I don’t see them doing MUCH better, anywhere, sans Texiera. This team is a long way from good.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Oct 11, 2008 10:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Where do you get the numbers for each position for a team?

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Found it. Is there anything BBRef doesn’t do?

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make breakfast

Oh… wait…. there it is. Never mind.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear | McFAQ

by Natto on Oct 11, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't find it

:-(

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 11, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Found it now

There are some funny things in there:

Our catchers hit more HR’s than our first basemen.
Our catchers hit more HR’s than any other position.
Our pitchers hit more HR’s than our SS’s.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 11, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our pitchers hit more HR’s than our SS’s.

MATT CAIN FOR SHORTSTOP

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 11, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s got the arm, no doubt.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

MATT CAIN FOR SHORTSTOP PRINCE FIELDER

Fixed it.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 11, 2008 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

MATT CAIN FOR SHORTSTOP PRINCE FIELDER PRINCE FIELDER AT SHORTSTOP

Fixed it betterer.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Giant Whiteout I wouldn't go there if I were you.

by WalrusMan on Oct 11, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Range——> No Errors

Genius.

by rotorueter on Oct 11, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

MINUS MOTHEFUCKING DENKER. FUCK YOU SABEAN, YOU STUPID FUCK

Didn’t some n00b accuse this site of not liking to talk about baseball? How many sites out there are ready to break out the torches and pitchforks when a fat AAA 2B gets cut. (Not that I’m not right there with you).

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 11, 2008 10:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m sitting shotgun in your bus.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ill bring the tar and feathers

I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Oct 12, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll believe in Zito’s improvement when I see it on a sustained basis over an entire season.

Why do you think Lewis will regress defensively?

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 11, 2008 10:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Looking around some more, his defense is rated somewhere between average and league best, so maybe the -5 isn’t justified.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think most of us agree with you regarding Zito, but hoping that he maintains his second half adequacy is all we have. Plus, we did it last year, so now it’s a tradition!

by rotorueter on Oct 11, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Salem, burning witches was a tradition.

by Moggeee on Oct 11, 2008 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Floating them is fun as well.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.

by daveinexile on Oct 12, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait...

Rowand is going to get worse on defense? Dear god…

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Giant Whiteout I wouldn't go there if I were you.

by WalrusMan on Oct 11, 2008 10:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, I wrote it, so it’s pretty much law now.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are you basing any of this off of?

Why is Rowand going to regress defensively when he already had a pretty bad year by his standards? And if he’s not hurt next year, why is he going to stay the same offensively? Same with Freddy. And also, I believe Sabes said Pablo was going to 1st, didn’t he?

by boonitez on Oct 11, 2008 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Some of these questions are already answered

Anyways, in regards to Rowand’s defense, by RZR he had the best defensive season of his career, by far. This is by no means the only measure of his defense, but it was so out of line with his career that it’s probably not likely to be sustained.

As for Pablo at first, I’m not sure. With what we currently have, it would be a mis-allocation of resources, in my opinion, which is why I put him at 3B.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 11, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabean, despite Pablo's preferences, currently wants to put him at third.

Pablo likes catching, then firsting, then thirding.

(But, by the look of Pablo, not fasting or thirsting.)

by Moggeee on Oct 11, 2008 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the main point here is...

the team really isn’t that close to contending. even adding Big Tex and CC gets the team to .500 next season…. which might make the team like Matt Cain (3rd- AT BEST!)

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Oct 11, 2008 11:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

*

MAYBE gets the team to .500

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Oct 11, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Cain?

How is Matt Cain third — AT BEST? Am I missing something here?

by sharksrog on Oct 11, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I prefer Miss July.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear | McFAQ

by Natto on Oct 12, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

this joke is overplayed that even doing a search is useless.

He’s kidding, sharksrog. Just take my word for it.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 12, 2008 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Thanks for the explanation. I guess Matt is third best and Nate Schierholtz plays third.

by sharksrog on Oct 12, 2008 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Cain: Third Baseman!

That kills two birds with one stone!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 13, 2008 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Three birds and stones combined!

AT BEST!

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 13, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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