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KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fifth-best

I know it was an off-the-cuff response, but here's a glimmer of hope from today's Keith Law chat:

Jim (LA): Name your top 5 minor league systems.

Keith Law: (2:12 PM ET ) #1 is Tampa. #2 is Texas. Beyond that I'm less sure, having not done this as a serious exercise (I will in late January). #3 is probably the Reds - very top-heavy, but tough to ignore that much star potential. #4 Boston. #5 ... I'll say the Giants, the opposite of the Reds, lots of star power that's years away. I reserve the right to change any of those last three.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=18665

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
I saw that, too. (Keith Law rocks!)

Still, I'm not sure whether I agree, even as a Giants fan. Some of our best talent hasn't made it to full-season ball yet.

by Dan from NM on Jan 3, 2008 11:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Breakin the Law
I like this Keith Law.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 3, 2008 12:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
Was this before or after he extemporaneously cursed Gadget?
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Jan 3, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
That will be next time... NEXT TIME!!!
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 3, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
Keith Law pleads the fif.
Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Jan 3, 2008 1:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
He doesn't like Omar as a Hall of Famer, though. Law seems like a very smart fellow and I'm sure his assessments are well reasoned. It's just that I'm afraid I'll have to kill him.

by non sequitur on Jan 3, 2008 1:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
Another neat little tid-bit:

Nick (SF): Keith: How do you project Wendell Fairley?

Keith Law: Very high ceiling - middle of the order bat with power, hits for average, strikes out a lot, runs well, plays good defense in RF with a plus arm. Lot of development ahead of him, though.

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Jan 3, 2008 2:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oakland A's
With all the moves Beane has made lately to improve the minor league system I think the A's are right at the top with the Rays.

BB isn't even done.  There is still Blanton, Street, Mark Kotsay and Mark Ellis to raid other teams farm systems.

by Cainer on Jan 3, 2008 3:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Don't Agree
The A's are flooding their farm system with a whole shitload of relatively low ceiling prospects.  Just think about it.  Out of 9 players they've acquired in these two trades, De Los Santos probably has the highest ceiling and we already have one of him in Henry Sosa.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 3, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Santos numbers > Sosa's across the board.
Also Carlos Gonzalez has quite a high ceiling as does Barton if he ever develops HR power, and will be plenty useful if it just stays as doubles.

Anderson, Gio, Carter may not have superstar ceillings, but all definitely have above average ceilings.

And that's not even including recent A's grown talent who also have some decent potential in Simmons, Cahill, Rodriguez, and Brown.

All in all, I'd take the A's farm over the Giants right now, and that's before the near inevitable Blanton and Street trades that are likely to come.

by awesomer on Jan 3, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Depends
The A's now have a lot more players that are close to the majors than the Giants, but in terms of ceiling, I'll take the guys in our top 10, Angel V, Timmy Alderson, MadBum, Fairley, Noonan, Sosa, heck, even Waldis Joaquin over theirs any day.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 3, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
the "low ceiling" thing has always been a knock on the A's, at least, since 2000. It hasn't prevented them from graduating a ton of major league talent.
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jan 3, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
the "low ceiling" thing has always been a knock on the A's, at least, since 2000. It hasn't prevented them from graduating a ton of major league talent.

It's certainly prevented them from consistently getting past the first round of the playoffs.

Say what you will about the differing strategies between Beane and Sabean the last decade.  For all the youth the A's have graduated, the Giants are the team that's actually made it to the World Series and come close to actually winning it.

Or, is the low ceiling you talk about the ceiling of the luxury suites at the Coliseum?  Didn't the A's make it a rule that no one, even fans, get above that ceiling, ever?

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Jan 4, 2008 12:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I do believe that making and winning the World Series have a lot to do with luck.  Two years ago the Cardinals barely finished over .500, yet they went on to win the World Series.

by sharksrog on Jan 4, 2008 1:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
And yet...people seem to forever hate on guys who are 'lucky'.

Seems to me we should load up on all the Kirk Rueter's and Eric Byrnes's we can get if luck can be used to disregard everything else.

Seriously, though, I do agree...luck has quite a bit to do with things in baseball.  I sincerely believe the 2003 Giants team was better than 2002's...but a couple of dropped catches by the surest glove AT&T Park has ever had in right field ended that run.  My suggestion is that a lot of luck also comes from experience, calm under pressure, and even teamwork...and Beane can't keep a team together long enough to develop those traits.

If you doubt that, ask the A's, and how a slide combined with a ridiculous cutoff/relay from five feet away from the plate can change a series.

Beane's best chance was the aforementioned team; since then, he's seemed more obsessed with unloading stars.  I don't disagree with the Hudson and Mulder trades...the Mulder one in particular was a steal.  But he had a team right now with several solid to good young hitters and some of the AL's best young pitching.  Now, citing poor health, he's traded away the more RELIABLE parts and left himself with a team in shambles that is three years away from possibly contending, and I'm not entirely sure he's gotten more than two players who'll be significantly better than those he's given up....nor those he's given up on.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Jan 4, 2008 3:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I admire what the A's are doing -- and think it has an above-average chance of succeeding better and more quickly than many think.

Let me offer the disclaimer that I really have done no research to speak of here, so I could easily be well off the mark.

But aren't the A's essentially about where the Giants were after the 2005 season?  The Giants began what I would call a spirited effort to finally get some younger players beginning with the 2006 draft.  

They may not have come up with much depth from that draft, but they certainly  hit a home run with Tim Lincecum on the #10 overall pick.  And a month or so later, they paid their largest bonus ever to 16-year-old phenom Angel Villalona.  2006 could go down as the Giants' best impact year in acquiring entry-level players since ... well, I'm not sure I can think of a better one.

Unless, of course, it turns out to be 2007, when  the Giants made six of the top 51 picks and signed each of them.

So the Giants now appear to have a shot at again becoming perpetual contenders next decade.  The A's farm system appears to be in every bit as bad a shape as the Giants' was two years ago.  I'm not sure they have done as much as the Giants to repair their system -- but they have done it with players who will likely have a much earlier impact than all the Giants' youngsters save Lincecum.

I would presume the A's will be focusing hard on rebuilding their low minor leagues, perhaps with other trades and certainly with the entry draft.  They are now somewhat a mirror image of the Giants, having a solid top of the minor leagues and a very poor bottom of their system.  The Giants now appear strong at the bottom and very weak at the top.

I don't know if the A's moves will work out for them or not.  But I like them for their boldness.  Billy Beane didn't say anything about getting younger this off-season, yet he already has accomplished far more to do so than has Brian Sabean, who stated such change as a goal.

I suspect Brian still has a couple of moves up his sleeve.  And at least he didn't trade Tim Lincecum.  But he has miles to go before he sleeps.

by sharksrog on Jan 4, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I'm taking this out of context, but I can't fully agree with the comment that "since then, he (Billy Beane) has seemed more obsessed with unloading stars."

Lest we forget, Billy has a very limited budget with which to work.  More than being obsessed with unloading stars, I feel he is often forced to do so in order to keep his team competitive within that limited budget.

An oversimplification, but during the overlapping years of Beane and Brian Sabean, Billy had about the same amount of money to spend as Brian -- AFTER Brian had carved out many millions for the game's top player.

Take Barry Bonds away during the Sabean era and how well do you think the Giants would have fared?  Since Barry missed almost all of the 2005 season, they haven't fared very well at all.

by sharksrog on Jan 8, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Yeah about the playoffs.  That's really not a good point to consider at all.  The Saint Louis Cardinals won it two years ago.

they were 83-78 and an extremely mediocre team that got super lucky and won in the playoffs.

Playoff success has absolutely no bearing on team talent level.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 4, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I definitely don't agree that playoff performance has nothing to do with talent level.  But think about it.

Let's suppose a team has only a one-in-four chance of winning each round of the playoffs.  That gives it a one-in-64 shot at going all the way.  Not very good, but one which shows that any team that makes the playoffs at least has a SHOT.

Incidentally, if a team has a three-out-of-four shot at winning each round,it winds up with only a little over a 50/50 (actually nine-out-of-64) shot of going all the way.

A team with a 50/50 shot in each round has only a one-in-eight shot at going all the way, and even if a team has a nine-out-of-10 shot at each round, it has less than a three-out-of-four (actually 72.9%) shot at winning the World Series.

by sharksrog on Jan 4, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
These percentages are good for statistical simulations of the playoffs, but the actual playoff games are too flukey and ridiculous for anyone to rely on these percentages.  Do good teams have a better advantage than worse teams?  of course.  Does that take into account weird inconsistencies like Curtis Granderson slipping in the outfield.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 4, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
To the extent that the percentages are accurate, they do.

by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
true, but this isn't the monty hall paradox.

Human error is too big of a factor to rely on those percentages.  Also, evaluation of which teams actually do have that 50-50 chance is also controversial and too inconsistent to swear by them.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 6, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Oh, so you watch baseball and root for teams to win the President's Trophy, and just stop watching when the playoffs start?

The point is to win...for me, that's the bottom line.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Jan 4, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Yes, the point is to win the world series, but getting there is a crapshoot.  That is a silly argument.  Stuff happens in baseball, that's why you need large sample sized to make accurate assumptions.  Being good over the course of the season is more indicative of overall talent level than four weeks in October.

Does the best team always win the world series?  Easy question?  They don't!  If it was all about the talent level the best team would always win.  Guess what? It is dependent on luck.  

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 4, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Let's not pretend that's the only dependent factor, though. It's dependent on a number of things. Luck is one of them. Talent is another. Other things also factor in. Luck does have more of an impact over short periods than long ones, so it does have a greater impact on playoff results than on regular season results. That's just statistically sound.

But saying that the playoffs are dependent on luck without acknowledging the other dependent factors is like baking bread without giving it time to rise because bread rising is dependent on using yeast. Yeah, yeast is one thing. but time is another.

I don't think you're not thinking along these lines, but you're certainly not getting yourself across along these lines, and I think that's where some of the arguments are coming from.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM! / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
haha my last answer was a bit convoluted.

What I'm saying is that better teams have a better chance in the playoffs, but that a large portion of success in the playoffs is dependent on luck.

that's it.  I don't believe playoff success is incredibly indicative of how good a team is.  It's not a good way to measure that.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 4, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
The Rox' luck carried them last year - then dumped them like a bad habit...or were they so tremendously overmatched by Boston?

Two years ago St.Louis FOUND theirs at exactly the right time.

The Yankees keep playing the percentages and wtf happens every single year? Or does being a Yankee ballplayer just wear you down as a group consistently at the same time?

Rockies juggernaut rolls o...ver , dead. NL West TempestTeapot CASE IN POINT!

by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
The Rockies were incredibly overmatched by Boston last year.  The Sox were just a better team.  St. Louis got lucky against a good team with overrated pitching.  

The Yankees don't play the percentages.  They signed Johnny Damon who is a terrible center fielder and then got hurt.  Their pitching has been atrocious.  Igawa was a flop, Mussina was okay, the rocket sucked, Pavano sucked.  The only decent pitcher they had was the Big Wang.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 6, 2008 11:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
since when does atrocious = average?  2007 Yankees team ERA+ = 99.  Ranked 7th out of 14 AL teams in Runs allowed.

by zenbitz on Jan 7, 2008 9:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
sorry for the hyperbole.  They were average, actually an above average team.  They went 94-68.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 7, 2008 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
For me, the bottom line is to play exciting baseball.  The Sharks lost on Thursday night, but the game was exciting and well-played, so I was happy (if not completely satisfied).

Much of winning and losing in sports is luck.  The larger the sample, the smaller role luck plays, of course. But in a single game, it can play a very big role.

The more scoring events in a game, the less luck plays a role.  Thus, there is a lot less luck involved in basketball than in baseball, hockey, soccer or even football.

by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2008 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Luck
"Luck is the residue of design." - Branch Rickey, HOF Manager

"The more I practice, the luckier I get." - Gary Player, HOF Golfer

by Cainer on Jan 6, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Luck
But you notice neither person ever claims to have solved the riddle  of luck.  They just claim to reduce the undesired effects of it.

by daveinexile on Jan 6, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I'm a little confused.  Why would anyone see who wins the mythical (in baseball) President's Trophy and then ignore the playoffs and World Series?

Yeah, the best team likely WILL win the President's Trophy -- but that "best" team doesn't really win the World Series all that often.  As I pointed out, even if a team is a 9-to-1 favorite in each of the three rounds, that team's chances of winning it all are less than three-quarters.

I think part of the excitement and appeal of any playoff system is that any team that qualifies for the playoff has at least a theoritical chance to go all the way.

by sharksrog on Jan 8, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: '06 Cardinals...
although they finished with a mediocre record, they were still the team with the previous years MVP and Cy Young winner.  A team with a healthy Chris Carpenter and Albert Pujols is surely not "mediocre."  Especially with the supporting roles they got from Rolen and Duncan who both OPS'd at .880+.  

The 83 wins on that team did not reflect the talent on the team.  Maybe they were "lucky" that Rolen bounced back or that Duncan performed well or that Wainwright is as good as they thought he was.  Or they just had the right players to win the Championship

by chefasaurus on Jan 4, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
When you're comparing the A's to the Giants you're always going to have to fight the resident opinion that Billy Beane is a genius and Brian Sabean is an idiot. If Brian Sabean had made these trades that Billy Beane just made, Giants' fans would be howling about the players he just picked up. How can you give an elite pitcher like Danny Haren to a team with as many prospects as the Dbacks have and not get at least two of their young players that have already proven themselves to some extent, like a Chris Young, Justin Upton, and/or a Stephen Drew?? Considering the A's have no money to spend on FA talent and Beane just traded off two of his best young stars, you can make the case that instead of "restocking" his team he might have just ruined them for the next decade. Only the perception that Billy Beane can do no wrong is keeping people from saying that. Who knows, maybe he will be proven right, but what he has done this offseason has a high potential to be disastrous, and if done by some other GM it would have been perceived to indeed be the case.
Bring me a cleanup hitter please!!

by rxmeister on Jan 5, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
For every Mark Mulder trade, there's a Tim Hudson one.  Only time will tell.
Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Jan 5, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Except that Beane has a track record of making unconventional moves that pay off. He's earned the benefit of the doubt, while Sabean has squandered it.
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jan 5, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane's Track Record
So, if Billy Beane's track record is so great, why did he decide he needed to run up a white flag on the next 2-3 years?  This ain't Moneyball, this is a Florida Marlins bust-to-boom firesale.

I don't think his track record is great at all:

OK, he got a couple of good players in the Mulder trade.

What about the Hudson trade?

Andre Ethier for Milton Bradley?

Didn't he give up a draft pick for Esteban Loiza?

Speaking of draft picks, just the fact that most of the 9 players he acquired in these trades are now making the A's top 10 prospect lists tells you something about the A's and their recent drafts.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 5, 2008 11:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Beane's Track Record
Divide wins by payroll.  Rank GMs. See where Beane ranks.

by zenbitz on Jan 6, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lawl, you always find only the bad with Beane
"A couple good players in the Mulder trade"

He got a 5 star prospect and a stud starting pitcher for 2-3 years that he just turned around and got another 4-5 star prospect, 1 or 2 4ish star prospects, and a couple possible upside pitchers.

The Hudson trade didn't turn out so great.

2006 Milton Bradley - 114 OPS+
2006 Andre Ethier - 113 OPS+

Yes he gave up a pick for Loaiza, and it didn't turn out so great.

Yes, the A's didn't have a lot of high prospects in the system. This is because they have graduated alot of their higher rated ones like Suzuki and Buck recently and have been picking in the 20s most of their drafts because they do that thing called winning recently, which you always seem to omit when talking about Beane's teams, very convenient.

Some other things maybe you should mention about Beane:

Jack Cust for Nothing
'Nuff said.

by awesomer on Jan 6, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lawl, you always find only the bad with Beane
and have been picking in the 20s most of their drafts because they do that thing called winning recently, which you always seem to omit when talking about Beane's teams, very convenient.

Funny, I tried using that to defend the lack of star power the Giants had turned out with their first round picks between 2000 and 2003, and I got blasted for that.

And those drafts turned out Lowry and Cain, too.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Jan 6, 2008 10:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
If speaking in generalities here  about Giants fan base howling about players picked up  is a bit off based.

   Yes,  if the incoming player picked up is near the end of his prime years you have point. But my experience is some Giants fans are far more likely to fall into the kind of "trap"  Sickel's points out about Villanola. Then if the young guy it not ripping through the leagues like Godzilla in the old films howling starts to get out of hand.  Otherwise the fan base will give a young guy a few chances.  A recent example is the way Davis has been received by the fans.  There was a fair amount of " Who is this guy and why did we get him?'  but I would not call that howling.

 We, as a group, have our definite short comings but I don't see that as one of them. Maybe you see things differently.

by daveinexile on Jan 6, 2008 9:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Billy Beane is cut much more slack in trading veterans for prospects because he has been successful in allowing veterans to leave.

Think the Twins' fans are worried when their team trades an All-Star for three young pitching prospects?  :)

We have seen overall that Sabean (despite the A.J. trade) has done a pretty good job of trading prospects for veterans.  We don't yet have a good sense for whether he can do the reverse.  And it could be a while before we do, since the Giants have so few tradable veterans.

Brian's primary failings have been failing to improve the Giants' farm system nearly quickly enough and then making some poor decisions with regard the free agents necessary to fill unstocked positions.

Billy Beane isn't a god -- but he has been a pretty good general manager.  So was Sabean for six seasons. But over the past five years his primary success has been in FINALLY improving the farm system.  Had he been able to do so a half decade earlier, the Giants would likely still be a good team.

by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
I think Beane is cut slack with tradeing veteran players because  no one  (inside or outside of the A's fan base) expects to actually keep a player. Outside of the  early 90's era , under different management, its been the case for the A's since the Curt Flood case was decided.  So you can't really miss what you never are going to have.

Vivia Diminished Expectations!  George Costanza  would be so proud.

by daveinexile on Jan 6, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
So... um, what are you arguing here?

That teams need elite talents to go deep in the postseason? Maybe, but the A's have had several elite talents over this period. No Bonds, of course, but then having the best hitter in baseball never won the Giants a ring. Besides, the year that the A's went deepest in the postseason (2006) was probably the year in which they had the most balanced roster.    

Perhaps you were arguing that the Giants are better managed because they went one series deeper in the playoffs? Maybe, or maybe they're just luckier. One series is well within the realm of luck. There's also the monetary disparity. The Giants have spent (WAG) twice as much money as the A's over the last decade, and is only got them one round closer to a ring.

Maybe it's that graduating prospects isn't as important as winning itself? Well, duh. Of course winning is the ultimate goal, but developing players is just the best (and, in the case of a small-payroll team, only) way to win.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jan 5, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
damnit.  Why can't i sound like you when I make arguments?
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 6, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Bhaakon is well practiced in the art of making arguments. It's a skill you learn when you level up some. You can also weild the blade of truth, which is actually a bit of a misnomer because all it really does it cut stuff.

But back to Bhaakon. He's got lots of practice. And he can do it in Klingon.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM! / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Jan 7, 2008 12:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Depends
Bah, your Sword of Truth is no match for my +5 Shield of Truthiness. Plus, I've always got my Cloak of Internet Anonymity.
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jan 8, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we'll have to disagree
In terms of ceiling I'd take Barton over all except Villalona, and probably C. Gonzalez as well. I haven't seen enough on De los Santos yet to make a judgment on him but just looking at stats and the BP review I'd think he'd have to rank above all but Villalona, and he'd be on a similar level with Alderson and Bumgarner.

by awesomer on Jan 3, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take your word for it DrB
I'm not up to speed with all their guys.  I will say though that Aaron Cunningham is underrated and I think he'll have a break out season next year.  Kid has all the tools.

by Cainer on Jan 3, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I'll take your word for it DrB
I do like Aaron Cunningham (and not just for the obvious).  I thought he was one of the better parts of that deal.

But I was still overall unimpressed by that deal's ceiling.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Jan 4, 2008 12:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hope
I almost forgot what it felt like...

by Adam on Jan 3, 2008 5:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What does hope feel like?
Vacant, with a hint of sadness.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM! / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2008 12:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: KLaw extemperaneously ranks Giants' system fif
wait why is FLA left out of that list?
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 4, 2008 6:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Marlins
Because the Marlins' farm system is playing in Miami in front of <4,000 fans a night.

by RangerMoto on Jan 6, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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McCovey Awards IV

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Which Old, Declining outfielder would you like?
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Who Should The Giants Acquire to Play OF In 2010?
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Time for a Semi-Rebuild?
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A REAL realistic view of Giants 2010
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Kevin Kouzmanoff: Cheap Power Upgrade
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McCovey Awards: Best Non-gameday Image
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handful of "puzzle piece" options

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