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Ramble On

Problem: The Giants have several veterans who won't be a part of the next successful Giants team. These veterans are making more money than the market says they're worth, and they're blocking young players who have any chance of being a part of that team.

Solution: Trade them to another team and make up for the above-market contract by sending cash.

This seems like a pretty obvious solution to a problem that I would hope is just as obvious. By "several veterans," I'm mostly referring to Ray Durham and Dave Roberts. The only acceptable argument for keeping either would be that the Giants are hoping that both players have successful starts to the 2008 season. If Durham or Roberts get off to a fast start, the Giants wouldn't have to kick as much money (if any) back in a deal, and there's also a chance the Giants could receive a worthwhile young player in return. If they get off to slow starts, the organization could always release them, bury them on the bench, or trade them with a sack o' cash in the middle of the season.

An outright release isn't likely for Dave Roberts even if he hits .210 for the season. Since Sabean took over, he's released veterans like Rick Wilkins, Jim Poole, Ruben Rivera, Jeffrey Hammonds, Kirk Rueter, Marquis Grissom, Jose Vizcaino, and Jeff Fassero, but they all had one thing in common: They were all in the last year of their contract. Jim Poole had an ERA in 1997 of 7.11 in 49.3 innings. 7.11! But Sabean likely said to himself something like, well, he's under contract for 1998, so we might as well see if he's really lost it. (Answer: Good god, yes.) Over a decade-plus, that seems to be an organizational philosophy. If a player is under contract, you might as well see if he's capable of bouncing back.

Durham, being in the last year of his deal, isn't immune to the axe if he struggles like he did last season, but there's no way Roberts will get the Russ Ortiz/Diamondbacks treatment with a couple of years remaining on his deal. Trading a sack o' cash with Roberts seems to be the only way to guarantee playing time for Fred Lewis and Rajai Davis, who are both out of options. During Sabean's tenure, he has made exactly four dump trades. When Matt Herges and Alan Embree were traded away, cash went with them, but it wasn't a significant amount in either case. They don't count. The others:

Livan Hernandez and a sack o' cash to the Expos

Armando Benitez, a sack o' cash, and no return address to the Marlins

Matt Morris to the Pirates

Edgardo Alfonzo to the Angels

The Alfonzo for Finley trade was Waterworld for The Postman, but I'm including it because it's in the same spirit as the much rumored Richie Sexson for Ray Durham non-deal.

The other three: A malcontent who was famous for messing himself in a Game Seven World Series start and ignoring the advice of his pitching coach, a malcontent who would have caused riots throughout the Bay Area if he continued to pitch, and an unbelievable bonehead move by an outgoing Pittsburgh GM.

I started this post - and I actually did research for it, dang it - because I wanted to see if Sabean had anything in his past suggesting he could dump Roberts or Durham. It seems like Durham is a possibility to go the way of Grissom or Rueter if he struggles, but in order for Roberts to go away this season, he'll either have to go back in time and cost the franchise a World Championship, he'll have to become one of the top-five least-liked players in the history of the franchise, or the Giants will have to pull another fast one.

None of it seems likely. We're probably stuck rooting for fluke performances and deadline deals. At least it's an easy thing to root for when you're forced to.

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Re: Ramble On
Research? Christ, what's this site coming to?

The thing is, for most of Sabean's career, the Giants have been theoretically in contention. We can always hope that he recognizes that the new circumstances demand a new plan of action.

Also, in Lewis and Davis, Sabean has not one but two players who pretty much share Roberts's skill set. I don't think that was true for all the players he didn't release back in the day.

by Evan on Jan 25, 2008 2:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Proof? Evidentiary support? Who needs that?
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 25, 2008 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ramblers let's get rambling
Durham needs to be traded at any cost in terms of kicking in cash.  If not he should be benched and used as a pinch hitter.

I'm afraid Roberts the Giants are stuck with.

I noticed in the four dump trades you mentioned that two of them were made recently.  Maybe a good sign of another to soon follow.

by Cainer on Jan 25, 2008 3:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
The elephant in this post is this: why the hell would any team want Durham, even if we paid his full salary? He's old, he's defense is average at best, and he was a terrible, terrible, terrible hitter last season. If Sabean can find someone willing to take him I'll start to believe he's a decent GM again.

Actually, stike that last part. Sabes sucks big time no matter what.

Now, Robert could still have some value as a late inning speed type guy, a la Boston '04, so that one is possible. But for Durham its DFA or nothing.

Merkin Valdez career SO/9: 10.8

by Poe on Jan 25, 2008 3:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

why the hell would any team want Durham?
He has a winning smile?
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 25, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: why the hell would any team want Durham?
Winning Smile: newest inclusion of statistics used to factor into WARP3.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 27, 2008 8:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
This pretty much seems like a re-hash of the diary I posted about whether to play the youngins.

It's not just Sabes but any GM who avoid releasing guys with more than a year left on their contract.  That's common sense.  Roberts isn't gettin released.  And Durham should be given a month or so to try and restore some sort of trade value.  Putting him on the bench in April is only going to guarantee he becomes bird feed. Even if KF isn't the everyday starter at 2B until June (though I hope he gets 3B to start), you haven't hurt his development- he still gets four months.

And the point was already made that since the Giants have mostly been in contention, Sabes' track record of salary dumps isn't relevant.  And in 1998-99, salaries weren't so out of whack that dumps were the rage across the sport.

by mlb22 on Jan 25, 2008 3:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
This pretty much seems like a re-hash of the diary I posted about whether to play the youngins.

Trust me, with the format of this site, I'm amazed that I don't accidentally duplicate more diaries.

by Grant on Jan 25, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I wonder if Sabean could find any takers for Zito (assuming, of course, that we send along a big pile of cash).   Hell, could even Beane find a way to work magic there?

by Lincecum Cain Then Pray For Rain on Jan 25, 2008 3:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
and who will take Zito's spot in the rotation? Zito's not worth $127M, but I don't think he forgot how to pitch.

The Giants deserve Zito's contract, anyway. That's what they get for charging $30 to park and $8.50 a beer.

Thank God for the San Jose Giant, Municipal Stadium, and the Beer Batter!

by GaryEdmundCarter on Jan 25, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
And bad visual backdrop for hitters!
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 25, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Almost ANYTHING tastes good fried in beer batter.  :)

by sharksrog on Jan 26, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beer Battered Cheese Curds..
Mmmmmm I guess there is a reason for living up here.
Coming to you from the Land of Many Beers

by WalrusMan on Jan 27, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Zito is <Dr. Coxian Pause><Dr. Coxian Pause> Untradeable.

At least as long as his contract is greater than 4 years long and his production is in decline. If both of those things change, he could get traded with ease, I suppose.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
That second tag was supposed to be an end-tag. I can't believe the site actually let me post a <Dr. Coxian Pause> tag without having the appropriate and necessary </Dr. Coxian Pause> end-tag.

Grant, you need to get the PTB on this. It's a major internal html processing flaw!

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I agree, we'll have Zito until the market for a number two starter goes ridiculously through the roof, which it will as all positions have. Santana will probably get 22mil/per and it will start there.
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 25, 2008 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
In terms of trading Zito, depends on how much "bad contract money" the Giants are willing to take in return.

Bet the Yankees would have done Giambi for Zito.
Perhaps the Mariners would have done Sexson for Zito.

Defender of Noah Lowry.

by Kid Fresh on Jan 26, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I'm not sure about exact numbers, but doesn't Giambi get 22milish per year... That's way too much money to take on. Think Zito plus seven mil for probably lesser results. I'll take Zito, we still have a shitload of free money.
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 26, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Jason Giambi is signed for far less years than Barry Zito.

Thus, we win.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 26, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
What would the market for a #2 starter have to do with Barry Zito?  :)

by sharksrog on Jan 26, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
my guess that he is in fact a number two
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 27, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I knew this post was a dud from the moment I hit "submit." Spent 40 minutes on the "research" and 20 on the writing.

Hijack: Favorite cartoon as a child. Mine was G.I. Joe.

by Grant on Jan 25, 2008 4:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On_Cartoon Hijack
Johnny Quest ! The real 60's version, not the cr*p on Nickelodeon from the 80's. Yes, I am old :-)

My adopted son Matt Downs. Because face it, everybody else was already taken by the time I got here.

by nvsfg on Jan 25, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On_Cartoon Hijack
There was one in the '80s? Dang. The '60s one was awesome, and there was one in the '80s with some archaic 3-d elements (or maybe just hand-drawn faux 3-d) in the opening theme called "The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest" that I remember loving as well.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On_Cartoon Hijack
Whoops, the one I mention that happened in the '80s I meant happenedin the '90s.

Obviously, I didn't know there had been one in the '80s.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On_Cartoon Hijack
I'm really only familiar with Johnny Quest thanks for Harvey Birdman: Attorney At Law.  Yes, Adult Swim: Expanding your mind one cartoon at a time!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jan 28, 2008 10:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
There are way too many for me to choose. The first ones that come to mind are Animaniacs and Batman the Animated Series. I have learned that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Adventures of Zelda do not age well.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 25, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Thylvester. And not Thylvester with Tweety Bird, but the Thylvester with his son and the baby kangaroo that they always thought was a big mouse.

by marklar on Jan 25, 2008 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
BY FAR it was Batman the Animated Series.

That show unconsciously taught me more about storytelling and more about recognizing and appreciating good animation, voice acting, and general film quality before I was 10 than I think anything else has taught me about anything before I was now.

Hands down.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Batman the Animated Series was just phenomenal, before they started ruining it with weird one-off versions.  But the original was so damn good.  Starting with Batman Returns, I've been so disappointed by how cartoony and weakly written the movies were versus the Animated Series.  Then came Batman Begins, and the salvation of the movie series has begun.

I was telling my wife recently about Two Face from the movie and from the cartoon, and how the one in the cartoon was such a deep, emotional story.  The movie ruined it by trying to turn him into The Joker Lite.  All the depth and tragedy of the character was lost in the movie.  Seriously, Joel Shoe maker was outdone BY A KIDS CARTOON!  If I'm a movie studio, and I see a comparison of Joel's Two Face versus a kid's cartoon Two Face, I'd never ever ever employ that guy after that!

It's also funny you mentioned how the cartoon taught you how to appreciate good voice acting.  I once played an old Star Trek game on the PC with the TNG crew.  They all, including Picard, seemed to sleepwalk through their lines, it was terrible!  Later, I heard Riker and Troi doing more voice acting in that show Gargoyles, and they were terrible in THAT, too!  That was my introduction to how good voice acting can make or break animation.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jan 28, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Dude, Gargoyles was a veritable landmine of Trek actors. Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, Brent Spiner, and Nichelle Nichols all had recurring roles on the show!

Not saying that makes it better. I haven't seen Gargoyles in years and I didn't really even watch it then. Just saying. That's practically an entire crew if you make Riker the Captain, Data second in command, and give Troi and Uhura less useless roles to fill!

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 28, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I couldn't watch it because the voice acting was so bad.  I tried once or twice, and just couldn't take it.  The only voices I recognized were Riker, Troi, and I heard Data once as well.  What killed me is that Spiner seems like such a pretty good actor, yet he didn't have the chops for animation.  Absolutely crazy.  It was like a collective, "Seriously, I'm getting paid for this, and there's no crazy Trekkie fans to bother me here.  Right?"
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jan 28, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I loved a number of cartoons from my "yute":
  •  The Beatles
  •  Super President
  •  Jetsons
  •  Bugs Bunny Show
  •  Speed Racer
  •  Kimba
  •  The Eighth Man
  •  Ultraman (though not cartoon)
  •  Thunderbirds (though not cartoon)
  •  Captain Scarlet (though not cartoon)
My favorite character(s) was Marc Anthony and Pussyfoot from Looney Tunes.  I still get a tear in my eye when Marc Anthony sees his owner making the cookies...
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 25, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha
The Beatles cartoon.
Coming to you from the Land of Many Beers

by WalrusMan on Jan 25, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I loved the X-Men and Spiderman cartoons.

Animaniacs and Pinky & The Brain were pretty sweet too.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 25, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
That reminds me, and I haven't thought about this for years: Was Jubilee's power the power of glitter?
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Splodey glitter?
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 25, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Did I just use "splodey" to mean "exploding"?  Yes.  Yes I did.

Did it work?  Well, they can't all be winners.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 25, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Jubilee makes things explode into pretty fireworks.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 26, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
The X-men cartoon might have had the best theme song of any of the childhood cartoons.

Though Sonic the Hedgehog comes close. "Blue Streak, Speeds By. Sonic the Hedgehog! Too fast for the naked eye. Sonic the Hedgehog! Sonic, he can really move. Sonic, he's got an attitude. Sonic, he's the fastes thing ali-ee-ive! Look out when he storms through. Sonic the Hedgehog! Don't doubt what he can do. Sonic the Hedgehog! , he can really move. Sonic, he's got an attitude. Sonic, he's the fastes thing alive, he's the fastest thing alive, he's the fastest thing aliiive!"

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I meant to follow that up with "I wonder who that show's about...."
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I agree Grant, G.I. Joe was awesome, and it had good 'stay in school/don't do drugs' infomercials.
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 25, 2008 10:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Holy Shit, how could I forget THE JETSONS
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 25, 2008 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I still don't understand what all this has to do with Sonic the Hedgehog...
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Sonic the Hedgehog > Adventures of Sonic Hedgehog then and now
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 26, 2008 10:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
G.I. Joe for me, too. Close seconds are Transformers and that show with all the superheroes in it (Justice League or something?).

by Dan from NM on Jan 26, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
wow.  i watched some crap shows when i was a kid.

Darkwing Duck was by far the best.  Pinky and the Brain a distant second.  Doug a close third and Ed Edd and Eddy rounding them out in fourth.

yeeeesh

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 27, 2008 8:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I forgot about the best of all, though!

Courage the Cowardly Dog!  It's a newer one, but stick him up there with darkwing duck.  great great show.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 27, 2008 8:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Loves me some Pinky and the Brain.

So how, exactly, did Pinky become our G.M. again?

by daveinexile on Jan 27, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
The same way he always becomes our GM, daveinexile.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 27, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Oh, I forgot about Darkwing Duck.  That was a good one.
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 27, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Darkwing Duck was by far the best Disney afternoon cartoon to have been aired at that time.  In all honesty, I don't think any Disney cartoons SINCE then have been as good.

Pinky and the Brain, though, was one of the best afternoon cartoons...  Ever.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jan 28, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
This still makes me laugh:

from Dough Ray Meow:

kinda says it all.

"cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Jan 28, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hijack
Pretty much a tie between GI Joe and Thundercats.  The former gained in strength as I got older, and the latter waned, but they stay pretty even.
And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Jan 25, 2008 4:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hijack
The regular thundercats, not a big fan. The movies however, were the shit.
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 25, 2008 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Dumping Roberts and Durham and eating their salary makes little sense for the Giants. First of all, they're both good guys. Players like Livan and Armando not only hurt the Giants on the field, they hurt the Giants in the locker room. Those are the players you dump and don't care how much money you lose by doing so. Second of all, Dave Roberts is not even a bad player. He had a decent enough year, and had several clutch hits for the Giants. We all "hate" him because we have younger players who we think are better, but we don't REALLY hate him. There's also a chance that those younger players aren't as good as him, but we don't really want to think about that. As for Durham, you don't want to pay him 7.5 million dollars to have a bounceback year for another team. He either bounces back for us, or he stinks again and quietly goes to the bench where he continues to be a good teammate. The hatred I see here for guys like Roberts and Durham is just ridiculous. I would love to see both of them beaten out by Nate and Frandsen, but I still like both of them as players and people.
Hillary: Will cry for votes

by rxmeister on Jan 25, 2008 4:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Alright, the Durham thing is kind of reasonable but I really disagree with your assessment of dave roberts.  I do not like the guy.  There is absolutely no value for being a "good guy" when his OPS+ is 80 and he plays awful defense.  He is not even a redundancy on this team.  I think a Lewis/Davis platoon would outperform anything Dave Roberts would ever give us.  

he is a terrible sign, a waste of money and he gets too much credit for his speed and ability to "be a good guy".  In all truthfulness, I'd rather have a productive asshole than a sucky nice guy.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 27, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Well, if you get rid of Durham and put Frandsen at 2b full time, what do you do about 3b?  Grant, didn't you ask this in a different form, maybe with a dangling participle or a prepositional phrase or something just a few days ago?  Isn't the cost of Dumping Durham welcoming Pedro back?

by allfrank on Jan 25, 2008 5:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Yeah, but that was before the latest Chronicle article about interest in Crede and Ensberg at Feliz's expense.

And, dammit, cut me some slack everyone! Today's post sucked. Doesn't that just highlight how awesome I usually am? If there wasn't ugliness in the world, how would we know how to define beauty?

by Grant on Jan 25, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Because people might have forgotten what an asshole I can be, I looked it up.  From Jan 21:  "Second reaction, and I know that I'm not the first one to think of this: This isn't really a choice between Ray Durham and Kevin Frandsen; it's a choice between Ray Durham and Pedro Feliz. If the Giants don't sign Feliz, they'll most likely go with Frandsen at third."
  Personally, I would love to see Frandsen at 2b and anybody, Crede, Ensgerg, Pedro, at 3b, UNDER THE RIGHT TERMS.  Meaning, one year (hell, I'd throw $8 mil away for one year), and not giving up a player not named Ray or Dave.  I mean, give away Durham, put Franny at 2b, and anyone on a one year contract at 3b, but keep all of our pitching  (Durham or Roberts for Crede, from my perspective, is perfect.  But since it is unlikely, then I'd rather see Pedro or Ensberg and keep our chips, ie Lowry).  But since Durham is signed for just a year, I'd rather play Durham/Frandsen at 2b/3b and have the opening at 3b to try to fill next Winter.
  The interesting thing is we can afford it.  AS I calculate it, we have spent/will spend about $71 mil for '08.  Meaning we have $30 mil to playwith/spend in the draft.  

by allfrank on Jan 25, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I know this is entirely unrealistic, but maybe Roberts isn't the outfielder to ship out.  If there was another outfielder who was more expensive, only marginally better, and coming off a year that likely overstated his skills, wouldn't that be a better player to trade?

Randy Winn is going to make $8 million in '08 and $8.25 in '09 as opposed to Roberts who will make $6.5 per.

Winn had about one hundred points of OPS advantage on Roberts in 2007.  Most of this can be explained away by luck.

Winn's batting average on balls in play was .332 last year, but based on batted ball data, his BABIP should have been .307.  Take away 25 points of batting average on lucky singles, and you have a right fielder with about a .750 OPS.

Roberts, on the other hand, had a .308 BABIP and his eBABIP was .327.  That's 38 points of OPS for Roberts, which takes him up to .733.

I'm not saying Roberts is better than Winn.  I'm just saying Winn might be the one to sell.  Both are signed through 2009 and I can't see either one being a part of the next Giants winner.  It seems much more likely that Winn could be dumped without picking up as much salary and with a better return in terms of prospects.

Trading Roberts right now would be a sell low and trading Winn would be a sell high.

by jc2125 on Jan 25, 2008 5:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
WHAT IN GOD'S HOLY NAME ARE YOU BLATHERING ABOUT???

Randy Winn is a serviceable hitter, a better  defender and capable at all 3 outfield spots.  Dave Roberts is fast and can't throw or hit. And he's older.  Randy Winn could help the Giants in the future, Dave Roberts could not.  

by The Wind Cries Omar on Jan 25, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
This is the problem.  Randy Winn IS a better defender.  Randy Winn IS a serviceable hitter, whatever that means.  He doesn't have a strong arm.  But f you really believe Randy Winn is going to hit .300 and put up an .800 OPS every year, then I have hope that some GM might believe the same thing.

Notice that I went out of my way to say that, all things being equal, Winn is a better player.  But Randy Winn's going to be 34 in June.  Pretending that he's really going to be part of the future is just another extension of the Sabean veteran fetish.

This team will not compete for a playoff spot in 2008.  Right now the Giants are trying to clear room for Rajai Davis and Fred Lewis.  Doesn't that scream that the Giants need an upgrade in near-Major League ready offensive prospects?

Trading Randy Winn has a much better shot of upgrading the farm system than trading Roberts.  Unless the difference between being 17 games out and 20 games this year is a big deal.

Trading Dave Roberts doesn't do anything except clear a roster spot.  BTW, I never said Dave Roberts could help the Giants in the future.

by jc2125 on Jan 25, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Why no talk of dumping Kline?  Dude is old, sucks and makes more than league min.  At least they can make an effort to get the bullpen sorted during the upcoming massacre.  Kline is just cloggin up a roster space.  

by chefasaurus on Jan 25, 2008 6:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Have you seen the salaries league average RPs are getting this Winter?  Kline, at $1.75 mil, is a huge bargain.
  That being said, he may be traded this Spring, or at the deadline, depending on how Capellan works out.  If he is good enough to keep on the 25 man AND if TAschner can stop walking the first hitter he faces, OR Misch shows a little improvement, then Kline would no longer be needed - and he could bring back some small chit in trade.  But right now it is not certain we have any LHRP on the roster we would want to keep on the 25 man out of ST

by allfrank on Jan 25, 2008 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Kline at $1.75 means they should be looking for suitors not holding onto him as a bargain

As with the OF and Kids situation, I'd rather see Sanchez, Misch and even Threets get some more serious looks than have to watch Sweaty Steve get thrown out of games because he can't get his slider over.  

by chefasaurus on Jan 25, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I agree to an extent.  I just think they want to see what they have in Capellan.  If he is still pitching well at the deadline, Kline could fetch a very nice price then.  If Capellan doesn't cut it and neither Taschner nor Threets pitches well enough to beat him out, he is good insurance.
  It seems to me this is the first glimpse of the Sabean draft/trade strategy.  And if one of the young LHs emerges, the old veteran gets traded at the deadline for something significant.

by allfrank on Jan 25, 2008 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I appreciated Rocko's Modern Life, even at the time.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jan 25, 2008 6:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Out of cartoon's of more recent times, my favorite is Two Stupid Dogs.  I also like Dexter's Laboratory.  And I'm currently enjoying Avatar with my children.  :^)
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 25, 2008 8:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
G.I Joe for sure, Voltron, Go-bots (generic transformers lol), and Thundercats was a distant 4th.  Oh ya, and some other random cartoon that was called "shirt-tales" i think, it had animals with shirts that had things printed on them i think

by joeytothelimit on Jan 25, 2008 9:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Popeye....the ones with Bluto, not Brutus.  And yes, Olive Oyl is a babe.

by drysdalecousin on Jan 25, 2008 9:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Olive Oyl is a total stick. I'll take a cartoon babe with a more buxom frame, thank you.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
Jessica Rabbit instead?

by drysdalecousin on Jan 25, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I was going to say Jessica Rabbit, actually, but I thought there was too great a disconnect from Olive Oyl. I tried to think of a cartoon babe from a closer era or genre, but somehow only Betty Boop came to mind so instead I just went with "vague."
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Jan 25, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
If you liked Jonny Quest, check out The Venture Brothers.  It's a spoof of Quest, about what happens when Quest is a grown up, middle-aged man.  Seriously one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
I miss Wendell Kim's sprinting to 3rd base.

by hummbaby on Jan 26, 2008 6:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
very good show.  One of the most entertaining I've got to say.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 27, 2008 8:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
you must also include steve kline in this scenario..

by ANDY MELAMED on Jan 26, 2008 8:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
I've been wondering lately if I'm getting a little impatient about moving the veterans. If Roberts and Durham get off to good starts and can be flipped in-season, perhaps that's for the best. An injury to a contender could raise their trade value.

Still, it'll be tough to see Lewis, Schierholtz and Frandsen on the bench if it comes to that.

by Dan from NM on Jan 26, 2008 11:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bonds
Doesn't look too promising that he'll find a team of any kind for 2008, at least in MLB...

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/27/no-home-for-bonds/

by ET90210 on Jan 27, 2008 5:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ramble On
He breaks easily, so my nickname for Durham is "Crystal."

So, what's date for his first DL stint?  Heck, will he make it out of ST without injury?  

How is this team going to score more than 2-3  runs/game? It isn't.

by Glasscock on Jan 27, 2008 10:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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