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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Lowry: Part MLXVII

If the Giants are trying to find a trade partner for Noah Lowry....

  1. Payroll should be a constant concern for the acquiring team. A lot of Lowry's value is tied to the idea that he'll be underpaid by about $30M over the life of his contract. The Yankees wouldn't need to give up a good young player for Lowry if they can just throw $50M at the league average starter of the week.
  2. The acquiring team would probably already have the lineup of a contender, but their starting pitching would be suspect-to-terrible at the back end. If a team has a solid one through four, it wouldn't make much sense for them to dole out a bunch for Lowry. And the Giants should only be in the market for "a bunch."
  3. The GM of the acquiring team isn't likely to be a stat-driven evaluator. Lowry's declining K/BB rates scare me, but I still hold out hope that he'll rediscover his strikeout pitch. Maybe that's because I'm ignorant. If I knew how to tickle a statistical database a little bit, maybe I wouldn't hold out hope. A stat-based evaluator might hold out a little hope -- perhaps they'd see Lowry as a good "value" buy -- but they certainly wouldn't give up prized young players.
  4. The acquiring team would have something the Giants want. No A-ball pitching, no potential fourth outfielders -- corner infielder, catcher, or shortstop would seem to be the only positions that would work, and the players would need to be pretty solid. On that note, the other team would have to be willing to give up said player. The Giants would love Ryan Howard, for example.
  5. Teams with little shot at immediate contention probably wouldn't want to trade young players for a veteran with three years left on his deal. It could happen, but it probably isn't likely.
Them's the ground rules as I see it. Here are the 29 other teams in MLB. The number next to the team is the above qualification that would suggest the team is not especially interested in Lowry. A "soft 2" means that I might be giving too much credit to the team's current rotation, or at least that organization's internal perception of their own rotation:
Angels (1, 2)
Astros (4)
A's (3, 5)
Blue Jays (3)
Braves (soft 2)
Brewers (2)
Cardinals (4, 5)
Cubs (2)
Diamondbacks (2, 3)
Dodgers (1, 2)
Indians (soft 2, 3)
Mariners (soft 2)
Marlins (5)
Mets (1, 4)
Nationals (4, 5)
Orioles (4, 5)
Padres (2, 3, 4)
Phillies (soft 2, 4)
Pirates (soft 2, 5)
Rangers (5)
Rays (soft 2)
Red Sox (1, 2, 3)
Reds (...?...)
Rockies (soft 2)
Royals (5)
Tigers (2)
Twins (soft 2)
White Sox (5)
Yankees (1, 2)
A couple of things become apparent with a list like this: First, it's easy to see why Brian Sabean has been underwhelmed with the offers for Lowry. Second, it's easy to see why we're inundated with mock trade proposals involving the Reds. They're the perfect storm of Lowry need, though they might want a strikeout/groundball pitcher to play in that park. If the Reds don't really have much interest in Lowry, the Giants are probably better off keeping him.

Unless the Mariners decide they simply must have another starter, that is. Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease. If there's another GM would could out-Sabean Sabean, it's Bill Bavasi.

Next in the series: Lowry's favorite restaurants across the country. Could they make a difference?

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Rays
have more pitching than they know what to do with. IMO they are not even in the Lowry discussion.
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Jan 2, 2008 12:35 PM PST reply actions  

Dammit!
A "soft 2" means that I might be giving too much credit to the team's current rotation, or at least that organization's internal perception of their own rotation:

I agree, with my only caveat being that of the six or seven candidates they have to start, maybe they aren't enamored of, like, two or three of them. But that number next to their name means there is something that makes them a poor fit.

by Grant Brisbee on Jan 2, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough...
Guess I just believe they are a hard 2
Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Jan 2, 2008 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Might as well keep him and hope he has a solid first half and we can move him then. It is clear right now we will not be able to get anything worth while.  

by dynamics24 on Jan 2, 2008 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
The Blue Jays need pitching-- starters, relievers, lefties, anything. The Giants need a third baseman with power. The Blue Jays really want to dump Glaus, so bad, in fact, they would probably take a "bad contract" in return (like Durham or Roberts or Aurilia) if Lowry was involved...

As the defender of Noah Lowry, and as a Giants fan, I really don't want to see Lowry traded. He's a good fourth starter, a great fifth starter (all depends on adjusting your expectation levels.) Noah is paid like a back-of-the-rotation starter, he performs like a solid back-of-the-rotation starter, he's home grown, he's easy to root for... what's the problem?

Jonathan Sanchez has shown me nothing as a starter. Misch and Correia are pipe dreams that might or might not work out. The Giants don't have as much pitching depth as we all surmise.

Defender of Noah Lowry.

by Kid Fresh on Jan 2, 2008 12:56 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
OOOOOOOOOOOR, Sanchez has incredible stuff and is on the brink of harnessing it, Misch is a steady 5th starter and Correia has already broken out and what we saw last season is exactly what we should expect for the rest of his career.  Shiny Shine Shine.

I'm just sayin...glass is half not full of air and approximately 50% is occupied by water.

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Jan 2, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

The Blue Jays
who were 3rd in the Al in ERA+, 112, behind Boston and Cleveland need pitching. Conversely, they were 5th from bottom offensively, with an OPS+ of 96.

Starters:

Doc Halladay: 120 ERA+ in 225 IP, AJ Burnett: 119 ERA+ in 165 IP, Dustin McGowan: 109 ERA+ in 169 IP, Shaun Marcum: 108 ERA+ in 159 IP, Jesse Litsch:  117 ERA+ in 111 IP.

Relievers:
Jeremy Accardo: 209 ERA+ in 69 IP. Scott Downs: 206 ERA+ in 58 IP. Casey Janssen: 190 ERA+ in 72IP. Brian Tallett: 129 ERA+ in 62 IP. Brian Wolfe: 150 ERA+ in 45IP.

No, they WON'T take a bad contract for Lowry.

by rfloh on Jan 3, 2008 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Favorite restaurants around the country
Spago in LA
Mesa Grill in Las Vegas
French Laundry in Napa
Frontera Grill in Chicago
Paladar in NYC

...or he could just be a Taco Bell guy.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 2, 2008 1:06 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Favorite restaurants around the country
saw lowry a month ago at cole's chophouse in napa so im thinking he's no taco bell guy.

by sam23 on Jan 2, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Favorite restaurants around the country
The rack of lamb at Spago is really really good. I recommend this place for the service. The bartender didn't have the beer I wanted on tap so he gave me a couple of free pints at my table.

Nobu in New York is good too.

Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 3, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Favorite restaurants around the country
I would love to go to Nobu because I'm a sucker from top notch Japanese food.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 3, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Favorite restaurants around the country
There's also a Nobu in Malibu, if you don't feel like going all the way to NY.

by mxmob33 on Jan 3, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Favorite restaurants around the country
I've seen Jennifer Aniston at the one in Malibu last year.

I really like the Nobu in NY because you can take a nice stroll by the Hudson after you're finished. Only thing is, go there at night because it gets kind of funky on summer days.

Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 3, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I think Cleveland might be interested in Lowry. If we were to sweeten the deal with another player (Misch? Lewis? Roberts? even Winn?) could we  possibly hope for Garko? Or, lacking that, Shoppach? Clearly, the Asdrubal ship has sailed.

If Toronto is interested, and if they have some sort of interesting mid-level 3B/1B/SS/C hitter, I'd certainly look into it, in a non-Accardo sort of way.

But yeah, Grant, it is pretty obvious why Noah is still a Giant. And is likely to be one on April 1st.

The SF Giants: we're not much, but you should check out our team in Augusta!

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 2, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Garko would be nice, but I rather kill two birds with one stone if we can trade Lowry to Clevelend.  Maybe we could use him and someone else to acquire Andy Marte and Jordan Brown?  

Of course, Clevelend could value both those players highly enough that Lowry could not be enough (but, Marte's value is low and Brown is blocked).

by Bib12 @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 2, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
i LOVE garko, but wouldnt he probably require more in return than marte AND brown?  i dont think cleveland needs a 4th or 5th starter bad enough to part with garko.

by sam23 on Jan 2, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I'm confused....are you saying that Garko would require more in return for Marte and Brown?  

OR, are you saying that Shapiro would want more for Marte and Brown then just Lowry and some other player?

I proposed that the Giants trade Lowry + someone else for Marte and Brown.  However, like I said, I am not sure if Shapiro would think that is fair.  It all depends on how highly he values Marte and Brown.

I just figured that Marte's value is low right now and Brown is blocked so that they could be acquired cheaply.

by Bib12 @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 2, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
i think garko is valued more highly than a marte/brown package, and i doubt cleveland has all that much interest in lowry.  but id love to see either deal.

by sam23 on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I am more than happy to keep Noah. We all know the positives. There are the somewhat scary K numbers, but IMO that doesn't mean he will stink up the joint. It is possible he could go either way. The K numbers could indicate he is in decline and will flame out. I think it is more likely that he will bounce back from his injury and be a solid starter. Outs are outs and if he gets them without the Ks, so what? Certainly if all we can get for him is doodoo the best thing to do is keep him. If he flames out, all we've lost is some doodoo. If he bounces back, we're in the cat seat.

by marklar on Jan 2, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
It is possible he could go either way.

Can we keep his personal life out of this?

McCovey Chronicles was better when mine was the lowest IQ on the board.

by Goofus on Jan 2, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I'm a little curious about these positives we all know.  Noah is fairly young, he's rather cheap, and last season he was very lucky.  He might be a guy who can get out of jams, although as Barry Zito demonstrated last season, such a talent -- if it does indeed exist -- can be fleeting.

What are the other positives I have missed?  Yeah, he's lefthanded.

by sharksrog on Jan 3, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Well, as number 4 starter, I felt it had been fairly well established that Lowry was one of the best in the league in that slot. My statement about positives are in the context of a number 3 or 4 starter and I should have been more clear about that.

That said I think Lowry's numbers indicate what the positives are. I am assuming his showing last year was due to injury, and it is in that context as well, that I think he has lots of positives. A lot of teams are hot after Eric Bedard. Other than the Ks, Lowry's and Bedard's numbers are very similar. I know Bedard pitches in the AL in a park friendlier to hitters, but that is offset by Bedard being an Ace with Lowry a 3 or 4.

I may be alone in thinking that the low K numbers aren't a problem for Lowry. But there have been plenty of very good pitchers that didn't strike out a lot of batters.

It will be interesting to see what Beane gets for Blanton if he is traded, because Blanton is another comparable for Lowry.

by marklar on Jan 3, 2008 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Ummm...  Can Lowry play 1B on his days off?  Isn't he like our second best hitter?  I'm beginning to think this is our best solution.

Ooh, wait...  Just checked his numbers and his OPS is declining like the Polar (North) Ice Cap.  Never mind.

Go Fred Lewis... You're better than the alternative... Yippee...

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 2, 2008 3:24 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I'm so glad Lowry: Parts I-MLXVI are now available on DVD. I plan to read them from start to finish as soon as I'm done with Season 8 of "Who's the Boss?"
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Jan 2, 2008 4:42 PM PST reply actions  

Angels
The Angels have starting pitching up the wazzoo, so they don't need Noah Lowry, but their bullpen ain't what it used to be and they may well be interested in a Brad Hennessey or Kevin Correia or a Jonathan Sanchez or even Pat Misch.

The Angels also have a 5'th wheel in their roster named Kendry Morales who I think would look very good in a Giants uniform over at first base.

How about Hennessey and Misch for Kendry Morales?

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 2, 2008 10:08 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Angels
Doc - I was looking at Morales's numbers at Salt Lake - any idea if that park is a launching pad?

His #s overall look OK - a little disappointing HR totals for a 1B though, and his BB totals at LAA are also disappointing.

I'm definitely more sold on Laroche than Morales...

by aGIANTfan on Jan 3, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Launching Pad?
Yes, SLC is a launching pad, like many PCL parks.  Still, Morales' MLB #'s project to about 20 HR's which would be an upgrade for us, unless you think Ortmeier is going to be a 20+ HR guy.  I wouldn't give up a whole lot for Morales though.  Hennessey/Misch would be the max.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 3, 2008 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Baseball Prospectus appears to think so
They translated his 871 OPS into a 274 EQA. EQA is park adjusted. 260 is average.

For comparison, Justin Knoedler, with a 816 OPS in Fresno, also got a 274 EQA.

by rfloh on Jan 3, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Since it's rebuilding time anyway, why not Lowry for LaRoche straight up? Isn't that a splendid idea? More youth?

by baetown415 on Jan 2, 2008 10:56 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I like both the Kendry Morales and La Roche ideas. Good hotstovin'! Hope Sabean reads this board.
Defender of Noah Lowry.

by Kid Fresh on Jan 2, 2008 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Unfortunately, current trends in baseball seem to include 1) highly valuing one's own prospects, and 2)lowly valuing Noah Lowry. And those two trends don't seem to match together too well.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Jan 3, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
I still believe the Reds are a likely suitor. I had hoped we could put a package together for Votto and Encarnacion with Noah as our biggest piece. But that was before it became apparent that the O's are interested in Votto and the Reds in Bedard. Something HAS to happen soon (and please do not make it a Pedro signing).
Don't believe everything you think.

by wcovington on Jan 3, 2008 6:45 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Lowry: Part MLXVII
Well, if you're going to add Misael DeJesus, that changes everything.

by Dan from NM on Jan 3, 2008 7:47 PM PST reply actions  

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