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Frandsen at 1B?

by jasomack on Jan 18, 2008 2:19 AM PST Comment 51 comments

I'm on the record as saying Frandsen should be starting at second, but this intrigued me. The Giants seem unlikely to go for a Shelton-type, and have passed on the Phelps/Bozied-types (people with a pulse). Feliz seems a legit possibility (please no) to return to third. Could Frandsen end up getting some AB's at 1st?
He played the rest of the infield, plus left and right, last year. I just want the guy to get AB's. In a perfect world, Aurilia, Durham and Roberts would get off to hot starts and be traded for something useful. I just don't think there's room for everyone to get AB's, unless first base is part of the equation.
So I guess my first question is how likely is it to happen? My second would be should the Giants even consider it?
If Frandsen got 40 games at each spot in the infield, he'd play a full season. It beats him sitting on the bench while Ort/Aurilia, Durham, Vizquel and Feliz replay '07. I'm resigned to the Giants offense being the cream of the crap, but I think there's agreement that most fans will take it if there's a legit rebuilding plan in place.
He'd be the worst offensive 1st baseman in the league. But so would Ortmeier.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Frandsen at 1B?

It intrigues me insofar as it would likely hasten Sabean's departure.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jan 18, 2008 4:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Giving him 40 ABs at each position would just open the door for the "he's not hitting well because he doesn't have a consistent defensive position" excuse.

Here's to Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw not panning out.

by Woody Wins on Jan 18, 2008 6:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

I've strongly advocated Kevin for 2B, and I'd grudgingly accept 3B for him in 2008 (at least to start). But having said that, I think Ortmeier is the better current option at 1B. He at least offers the possibility of home run power.

What say you other McCovenites? Assuming (just for the conversation) that Kevin is capable of hitting .285/.340/.400 and Ortmeier is capable of .270/.330/.450 (and I'm not good at estimating these numbers, so feel free to supply your own), which would we rather have starting at 1B? Discuss.

The SF Giants: we're not much, but you should check out our team in Augusta!

by Lyle on Jan 18, 2008 6:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

This one Zips thing I just found gave Franny 390 ABs 270/315/365, 4 Hrs and Ort 450 ABs 255/306/400 15 Hrs. But last season Franny did belt, 5 Hrs in 264 ABs, while Ort hit 6 in 157 ABs. Also note, your estimates have them both pretty close to league average for 1b and 2b. That'd be great but may be unrealistic.

I'd guess that Fransden's likelhood of getting to 10 Hrs in 550 ABs is more likely than being able to stomach Ortmeier for 550 ABs. But that's like just a guess, you know.

by kennv on Jan 18, 2008 7:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Best. Sig. Ever!

I got one word for you: "youneverknow"

by senorvegas on Jan 18, 2008 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It would explain our lack of run support

Senor,

Are you or Lyle intimating that our venerable GM is once again snorting the O?

by Moggeee on Jan 19, 2008 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

I can't believe that the only young player we are currently slotted to get regular at-bats is Dan Ortmeier.

He has to be the least talented player among the group, including Fred Lewis, Rajai Davis, Nate Schierholtz, and Frandsen.

by rotorueter on Jan 18, 2008 7:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Which goes back to the idea I floated a few months ago and will say it again: Randy Winn at 1B!

Assuming no deals/signings get done, I think Randy Winn would be the best choice at 1B:

It frees up a spot in the OF so all the kids can play
He switch hits, so there's no need to platoon
He's a good athlete and played an inning at 3B, so 1B shouldn't be a stretch.

Does he have the ideal power you look for in a 1B? No, but given the current roster, I think he's the best choice.

LF - Davis/Lewis
3B - Frandsen
1B - Winn
CF - Rowand
C - Molina
RF - Schierholz
2B - Durham*
SS - Vizquel
P

This lineup has minimal power, but I think it's the best we could do with what we got and we'd get to find out once and for all about Frandsen, Schierholz, Lewis and Davis.

*If Durham doesn't bounce back, yank him insert Velez.

Barack Obama: 1-1

by Goofus on Jan 18, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

+1

:-)

Barack Obama: 1-1

by Goofus on Jan 18, 2008 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Also, maybe he'll get pissed and demand a trade. That would help too, as long as the other teams didn't find out.

by rotorueter on Jan 18, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

You are my hero.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Jan 18, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

thats a good idea

by sam23 on Jan 18, 2008 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Your ideas intrigue me. May I subscribe to your news letter?

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

That's an insane plan that makes perfect sense for this team and only this team. Good job. Keep up the good work.

by out machine on Jan 18, 2008 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

The only thing that scares me about this idea is that the Giants might decide they're set at first base for a couple more years. In fact, all lot of the things I hope the Giants do hinge on me not wanting them to do something stupider. But Winn at 1B does free up 600 AB's for Lewis/Schierholtz/Davis. Winn is about as good a long-term 1B option as Frandsen, Ortmeier, or Aurilia. Maybe he builds value, and a team looking for a LF/CF/RF/1B wants him in trade? But then maybe the Giants decide he's their best hitter (or second best) and his veteran saviness is unmeasurable out there. I guess I'm arguing with myself here.
Intriguing idea though.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Jan 18, 2008 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Winn's contract expires after next season. I guess its possible the front office could think he is the long term answer at first but I doubt the rest of the league will beat a path to Winn's agent to sign him as such. Net result Sabean can then out bid himself by a lesser amount then if people are bidding on Winn is a average or better outfielders. Especially as a centerfielder.

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

That's crazy... like a fox!

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Jan 18, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

I think it sucks ... like a fox.

Mike McBryde ... A Giants' prospect that won't kidnap and kill you.

by squirrel on Jan 19, 2008 1:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

I would be fine with the Giants opening up first base to competition to include Frandsen, Ortmeier and Nate Schierholtz. Heck, I could even live with Randy Winn at first to open up a spot for Nate in the outfield, although I think Randy is easily the better outfielder.

Perhaps the Giants should merely play for a very high draft pick this year.

by sharksrog on Jan 18, 2008 9:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

i dont think they are going to have to try to get a high pick...its gonna happen.

by sam23 on Jan 18, 2008 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants select as the first overall draft pick

Robert Stock.

by Cainer on Jan 18, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

While I think Winn is a better OF than Nate, I prefer Randy at 1B so we can see if Nate is a bonfied long-term solution in the OF.

Register to vote in the 2/5 primaries by Monday 1/21! http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm

by Goofus on Jan 18, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

I've always hated the notion that you can stick anybody at 1B and he'd do well since it's an "easy" position. No position is easy. Schierholtz used to play 3B regularly. So unless he had to switch to OF because of injury, I'd prefer to play him there if they're going to rotate positions. There's no point in moving Frandsen to 1B. If they do that, that creates two unsatisfactory holes in the lineup at 2B and 3B. Getting regular ABs for Aurilia and especially Durham would be a waste of time. Their trade value is practically ziltch even if they have a semi decent bounce back season due to age, questionable productivity, and contract size. Plus, they're too old to contribute to the club in the long run.

by BenboC on Jan 18, 2008 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

But 1B is the EASIEST position. And if the aging, slow veterans who usually get stuck there can play it, I have some confidence that Winn, quick and athletic, and not yet in his twilight years, can make the transition. The fact that he capably plays each OF position and previously played 3B makes it more likely.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Jan 18, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Randy Winn played 1 game at 3B,

And it was for one inning. That doesn't mean he has experience at the position or that he's anywhere close to acceptable there- or you might as well say Pedro Feliz is a catcher.

He's one of the best right fielders in the game defensively, and I'd rather keep him there.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Jan 18, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tomorrow: Ecstasy sprinkled on our Sushi Rolls

Anticon...your crazy ideas have no place in our annual Winter Acid Trip.

by Moggeee on Jan 19, 2008 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Schierholtz came up as a corner infielder. I would much rather see us experiment with him at first base than a proven major league outfielder like Randy Winn

by m34josh on Jan 18, 2008 12:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

What is the use of wasting a year of team control on a larger "if" then running Nate out there at the position he has been most recently trained for? Are the Giants in danger of a post season appearance in `08 that I am not aware of? Have the Giants settled the outfield roster slots for post All Star `09 and beyond already?

With the answer to the last 2 questions being " No" the answer would have to be very persuasive and insightful to out weight those two "No" answers.

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Yeah, it's something I thought about, but I feel the team must see Nate as a long-term outfielder, otherwise they'd of had him at 1B last year instead of Ort.

Register to vote in the 2/5 primaries by Monday 1/21! http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm

by Goofus on Jan 18, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

NATE AT FIRST...

Why not, right? If Frandsen is a third baseman why isn't Nate a first baseman in a platoon with Ort. I think he came up as an awful third baseman, but first base is the easiest position on the diamond and J.T. could teach an ape to win a gold glove. Give him and Ort some AB's in the outfield and trade Roberts, Winn, and Aurilia to anybody, all inclusive salaries.

1B Nate Schierholtz
2B Kevin Frandsen
3B Randy Winn
SS Eugenio Velez
LF Rajai Davis
CF Rowand
RF Freddy Lewis
C Bengie

Now that's rebuilding

I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 18, 2008 1:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

Schierholtz at 1B is a debate that pops up pretty often around these parts. My understanding of those who are against the idea is that his talents (strong arm, decent speed) are better suited for OF than at first. Also since he was terrible at 3B, he wouldn't be any better at 1B, even though that's considered to be an "easy" position.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 18, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Why I Vote for leaving Frandsen & Nate ...

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Why I Vote for leaving Frandsen & Nate ...

My objection to the Nate trails at first ( or the Frandsen trails being done at third) is very simple. The Giants have no one under contract to fill second, RF or LF after `09. The current occupiers of those 3 spots are not world beaters either. Since both players in question have been recently trained for those spots and if they pass trails ( can play at the MLB level) they would be able to provide an upgrade at the position both long term and, possibly, short term.

Bonus points would be reducing the roster spots needing filling( leave alone up grading for the moment) after All Star break `09 to 9 or 10.

Say Nate and Frandsen are tried at third and first do "meh" are they then tried again in `09 at the spots they were trained for prior to the switch? If they do " o.k." then is the need to find better then "o.k" players ignored for both positions? Finally why coddle people you don't expect to be in your organization after 2 seasons from now which also happens to be about the time your young arms should have their greatest chance at being dominate before you have to decided who to resign?

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Why I Vote for leaving Frandsen/Nate ...

Obviously my comment was in fantasy land, but if we're going for the youth movement, I say we go all out. I think that Nate is ML ready but will suffer from inconsistant AB's. That said I bet the giants brass will make him start the year in Fresno, penalizing an able player because they have shitty vets on the roster. If this is rebuilding time then tear it all down and start over... Travis Ishikawa anyone?

I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Jan 18, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Why I Vote for leaving Frandsen/Nate ...

A few year's ago I might've been down for some Ishikawa, but his stock has fallen as of late. I haven't completely given up on him, but I'm skeptical of his success in higher leagues.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Jan 18, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

OF/1B (and 3B)

Here's how I look at it. We've got three long-term openings at first base and corner outfield, and seven youngish players with some vague shot at filling them: Lewis, Davis, Ortmeier, Schierholtz, Velez, Timpner, and Bowker. (I know most people would leave Timpner off that list, but I'm stubborn.)

I'd rank their offensive upside more or less like this:

Bowker
Schierholtz
Lewis
Davis
Ortmeier
Timpner
Velez

And their outfield defense like this:

Davis
Timpner
Velez
Lewis
Ortmeier
Schierholtz
Bowker

The obvious thing there is that the two guys at the top of the first list are at the bottom of the second. That says to me that you should be thinking about moving them to an easier position where the offensive standards are higher.

If I were running the show, I'd have Fresno start out with Ishikawa at first, Schierholtz at third, and Bowker in left, and see how that goes.

by Evan on Jan 18, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

I'd unscientifically rate Lewis outfield "d" below Ortmeire. Maybe on par with Nate but Lewis has the weaker arm. But that's quibbling in this case. If they insist on running that kind of experiment Fresno is the spot to do it. It does not burn MLB service time and relieves one part of the problem created by switching the young ones.

But the team still has to see if they can cut it in the Majors once they are deemed adept at the new positions. So I don't see how this reduces the number of question marks by mid season next year.

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

Just trying to strike a balance between getting at-bats for everyone and finding the best fit for each player's particular skill set.

by Evan on Jan 18, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

To be honest I don't think its the worst option available. ( No sarcasm or jokes this time).

I just see a whole lot of roster space being open and not a lot confident answers for even half those slots. That has to be the priority for the club this season if it wants to escape 4th or 5th place any time in the next 5-10 years. I view it as better for the franchise to sort through the young ones near the top of the minors now so there is room for others to climb up and into. Those that prove MLB ready can calm down the need to sign scrubini vets for fillers and possibly be dangled for trades to teams that are more payroll conscious.

by daveinexile on Jan 18, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

Schierholtz was moved away from third because he sucked there. He will never be a major league third baseman.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 18, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

I agree that this is probably true. But do we know for sure? Maybe the organization's fetish for defense higher than it ought to be. As a practical matter, Schierholtz has a lot of competition in the corner outfield spots and none at all at third base, so it's worth a shot to see whether he has become more coordinated or whatever.

by Evan on Jan 18, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

What I meant to say: Maybe the organization's fetish for defense set the bar for third-base fielding higher than it ought to be. Remember, this is the franchise that keeps signing centerfielders and using high draft picks on no-hit glove men. Do you completely trust their appraisal of defensive prowess in relation to hitting ability?

by Evan on Jan 18, 2008 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

I trust that this organization can't turn Nate into a third baseman. Whether that's his lack of talent there or their lack of skill, I think if they had any belief this was possible, he'd be playing third in winter ball and working on his footwork. If that's not happening, then he won't be at third base.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Jan 18, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

Actually, they moved him from 3B because he was being blocked by the great Pedro Feliz. :-)

Register to vote in the 2/5 primaries by Monday 1/21! http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm

by Goofus on Jan 18, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

It is awful hard to replace the 7th best thirdbasemen in MLB in 2007as determined by the combination of RC/150 and ARS/150. :-)

by giantsrainman on Jan 18, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

Rainman. You are steadfast.

Pedro waves his bat wildly in what some would consider a salute to you.

;-)

by Moggeee on Jan 20, 2008 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OF/1B (and 3B)

If Schierholtz couldn't stick at the position in the lower level Minors, then how could he make it in the Majors?

We'd be looking at defense worse than Mat Gamel's, except these games count.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Jan 18, 2008 6:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

When the Giants signed Nate Schierholtz, I wondered aloud why they didn't give him a try behind the plate. Probably the quickest way for a position player to make the majors is to be that rare catcher with a good lefthanded bat.

Nate certainly has the arm to play behind the plate, and he would seem to have the athleticism. He may not have the mental aspect.

I would think Nate would make an acceptable right fielder defensively for most teams, but playing half his games in AT&T Park, his range is short for the position with the Giants. And he doesn't really have the bat of a first baseman.

Nate would certainly appear to be good enough to play for the Giants. On a better team, he likely would be a platoon player at best.

by sharksrog on Jan 21, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Frandsen at 1B?

"Hey, Mom, please do me a favor and kick this chair out from underneath me so that I can adequately swing from the ceiling fan." There lies my opinion of the Frandsen at first option. Why don't I just ask Pedro Feliz to replace my grandfather's failing heart valve? They are both "possiblities" if thats how you want to look at the world.

That said, Sabean is probably on board with the idea.

Proud Adoptive Father of Brian Sabean's inevitable successor.

by Angry Mike on Jan 19, 2008 10:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Who you kidding?

Your technique was popularized last year by Giant fans during and after Matt Cain starts.

Just a tip: If you turn that fan on high, it's the damnedest thing, but your dead body will swing horizontally for hours before the circuit blows.

by Moggeee on Jan 20, 2008 12:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Who you kidding?

That actually sounds pretty awesome. Thanks for the tip.

Just because you CAN vote doesn't mean you SHOULD vote. Support Natural Selection!

by Angry Mike on Jan 20, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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