Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
With Bonds leaving and being the only human being who is not really all that effected by the ridiculous AT&T Park dimensions (unless you count his blast last night, sigh), is it time to fill in Triples/Mirabelli Alley and make it, say, 400 ft to left-center? It would still be a good pitcher's park (not many parks are 400+ ft to left and right center), maybe even better because the RF wouldn't have to play so far off the RF line. They moved in the fences at the 'Stick and rightfully so. Would've been nice if it had been done while Mays was playing but we shouldn't make the same mistake at AT&T.
I was all for the crazy dimensions when the park first opened, but the gimmick has just gotten frustrating for me. Contrary to what Giants management believes, a triple is not the most exciting play in baseball unless its a slow-footed catcher who barely makes it to 3rd. Everyone else gets in there standing if they line it into the 421-ft canyon. Pretty much the excitement peaked when Mirabelli devirginized the Alley.
I never really argued against the alley because we had such an advantage with Bonds being one of the few lefty sluggers that could hit it out anywhere in the park. I think now its time to put some seats out there or a kid's hang out spot or something.
How do you guys feel about the Alley after 8 years of anywhere-but-here bombs? Schierholz would have a HR already. If you do think the Alley needs to go and fences moved in, what should go there? The more creative the better.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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82 comments
Comments
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
It's a unique feature, it isn't too unfair, and you'd have a hard time filling in that area and not having it look like it wasn't an afterthought. The whole idea of the portwalk, knothole gang, arcade, arches thing is a strong design concept. Leave it be.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by JRPhillips on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Too Obscure ?
by nvsfg on Sep 27, 2007 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
You said you don't see it as a defining feature, but the portwalk is? The deep right center alley, the faux brick wall, the arches...they're all an extension of the portwalk. It's all the same theme, not a mish-mash of different ideas that are unrelated.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by sfgfan on Sep 28, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by kingofthacove on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If it ain't broke
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
If you don't believe in power at AT&T, I only need to submit one piece of evidence: What did the lineup look like the last time the Giants had a winning record at home? The park might devastate lefty power and somewhat depress righties, but it will be impossible for us to win without it.
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by BruteSentiment on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope
by wilriv21 on Sep 28, 2007 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
by sharksrog on Sep 27, 2007 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone has a different definition
What is your definition of a power hitter? Is there a certain SLG%, number of HRs etc?
by wilriv21 on Sep 28, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
While guys with "plus doubles" power and speed are not easy to find, the Giants do have a core of young players that could take advantage of it now.
The "speed" guys hitting 3B and scoring from 1B on doubles, just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy :-)
by nvsfg on Sep 27, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
The Giants have never had a winning season at AT&T without a power core. We've had plenty of speedy doubles hitters in the middle of the order that got us a bunch of losses.
The easiest thing in the world to do is overestimate park effects. They're not that important.
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: If it ain't broke
Get guys who hit for power and don't make outs. It's a pretty easy concept to understand. The execution however...
by Punch Rockgroin on Sep 27, 2007 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 27, 2007 2:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
PBB is right: the architecture of the thing is also worth it in itself.
Leave it as is.
by BigO on Sep 27, 2007 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I'm just telling you what the thought is behind these things from the perspective of an architect. The character of the whole park is based off of the portwalk. Everything relates back to that strong linear form.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
From a baseball POV are you not sick of the Alley?
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
It's a give and take kind of thing for me. Yes you have 400+ foot outs, but you've got a great theme, that's there for a reason and not arbitrary like the f'ing pool in Arizona or the hill in Houston. The park was planned with all of this in mind.
If you're interested and haven't done it yet, I strongly encourage the tours they do of the ballpark. If you get a good guide, you'll hear all kinds of interesting tidbits about the design. For instance, did you know that originally the plan was to have the ballpark rotated 180 degrees from it's current position? HOK (the architects) then did a wind study and found that while the views of the skyline would be spectacular, it would be next to impossible to hit one out because you'd be hitting it right into the marine breeze. Not to mention the 40,000 frozen fans every night.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
It's pretty damn hard to hit it into the arcade when the winds blowin in and I've only seen a couple guys get cheapies this year down the RF line.
Maybe its just the fact that the Bonds-era is ending that I'm wanting a change. If the Giants were winning I probably wouldn't care so much either. But I do feel sorry for our young lefty hitters who have to jog back the the dugout after they hit a ball about as well as they can.
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
The compensation for a big right center is the arcade portion of right field. I know that the wind pushes balls towards centerfield as it whips around that corner of the seating bowl, or it comes in through the arches as K&K have suggested before.
But to change right center because of what's going on in left center doesn't help the lefties unless they're able to hit opposite field dingers. What you're suggesting would make the righties very happy, and not help all that many lefties I believe.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I'm just trying to think of the youth era we are entering. Bonds always knew he could hit it out, but these young kids look out there and probably say, "Damn, that's far." Maybe they don't think like that, hopefully they just try to drive the ball as hard as they can, but it's gotta be frustrating.
I am by no means a HR fanatic or anything, I just want a fair park and I honestly don't think AT&T plays fair on most nights. Yeah, both teams are playing on the same field, but getting a handful of HRs taken away a year when stats are what get you paid has got to piss some players off.
I haven't felt this way about the park until pretty recently and its really just wanting the players to not dread hitting in their home park.
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by Skaldheim on Sep 27, 2007 2:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by jponry on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by wjackalope on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by JRPhillips on Sep 27, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good place to put the Bonds statue
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 27, 2007 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: that's a good place to put the Bonds statue
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: that's a good place to put the Bonds statue
by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
It beats the hell out of the godawful mini golf course that is Minute Maid Park.
by wedge on Sep 27, 2007 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Propose change to ATT
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
How could they "mistakenly" forget the bullpens? What is that large opening behind LF between the fair pole and the Chevron car? Why don't they put both pens there?
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
I'm with you, the forgetting-the-bullpen story sounds like an urban legend...
by EliminateMe on Sep 27, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
If you wanted that kind of a change, it would probably be best to move the centerfield concession stand at field level further under the bleachers, and put both 'pens directly behind the centerfield fence (where the "hitters eye" area is currently.
I haven't had a chance to get to the bottom of this "mistake" of leaving them out, but in architecture, things like that happen all the time....People "forget" something, continue on, and when the issue pops up, it's too late to change and have it not be an eyesore or hassle. There's no doubt, someone wanted some cool feature (the brick running all the way out past 420, alot of front row bleacher seats in the OF, who knows) and their way of getting that was to design it knowing there wasn't room for the 'pens. Then when the issue came back up, the pens could just be moved to foul territory and the "cool features" would remain. Trust me, this kind of shenanigans happens all the time in the profession.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
This reminds of something that happened a couple of years ago. We were headed into the game on a cap night and running a tad late. (Women!) They were out of caps at the Lefty O'Doul Gate, so we headed over to the gate behind CF via the portwalk. There was on pre-game on-field promotion with the Budweiser Clydesdales and they were bringing the entire team and draft carriage out through the gate under the arcade (where the knothole gang is) and then planned to drive the carriage along the portwalk where I assume they would load them onto a truck near the the O'Doul bridge.
We stopped to watch them as it's not often you get to see those huge horses really close. As they were trying to steer the team through the arcade, the horses were getting a little spooked and were having trouble making the hard right turn. It was acually a little scarry as one of the drivers came down from the top of the cart to try and control the horses. Their stomping feet moving was actually shaking the cement sidewalk of the portwalk.
It was exciting, but I didn't get a damn cap that night.
by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by sfgfan on Sep 28, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
-- There's the Minute Maid Park model, with the bullpens pretty much completely hidden underneath space where fans tread. If the bullpens weren't there, it would just be storage space, or something.
-- The Fenway model, with the bullpens in a power alley behind a low fence.
In other words, I love bullpens on the field of play. It's a more effective use of space to have them on the field, but more important, it's extremely annoying to try to keep track of all the action in a ballpark where the bullpens are out of sight.
As for our park's defining features, I've got a short story about the porch. While the park was under construction, I called the Giants offices and left a message asking how they could have a right field line only 300-odd feet when MLB rules specified at least 325 feet. One of the lower level executives actually called me back and we had a conversation in which he explained that they'd actually had to ask for an exemption. It was a good surprise to get that kind of response.
by David Arnott on Sep 27, 2007 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by GameSix on Sep 28, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by Woody Wins on Sep 27, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by cheno on Sep 27, 2007 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
Sorry, I actually do respect the risk that these bullpens present and I'm not trying to be mean about it. I just thought tennis balls were funny. That said, how many broken ankles have we seen since we moved in? I don't think the risk quite warrants the trouble it would take to move them.
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
The point I was trying to illustrate above is that if you move them to somewhere else, you're going to most definitely lose some seats and the functionality of the outfield bleacher setup could be compromised.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
Put on your "owner" hat on. If moving the bullpen to the outfield lost you...I dunno, 2-3,000 seats out in the bleachers, would you be OK with it? Remove an entire section or two out there, and you'd have your bullpens out of the way, but you'd be limiting the capacity of your park, all other things staying as they are.
Keep in mind that we don't have any 2nd or 3rd level seats in the outfield (excluding the sliver of stuff behind the left field pole). Not only that, but you've got what equates to next to nothing for seats along the arcade. This isn't Yankee Stadium or where the evil ones play. Our place can't hold 60,000 and the seats we do have are at a premium.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
I can tell you this...of all the ballparks I've visited, we have far and away one of the best. It's all the little things that you don't notice that make it so much better than anything else.
Like I said earlier, if this kind of stuff gets you wet, like it does for me...then take the tour. They're offered year round, and you'll learn all kinds of interesting things about the park we call home.
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Propose change to ATT
by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
In other words, never.
by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like
I even liked the crazy suggestion from the mid-90s that they should have NO fence at Coors (pre humidor), just maybe a gradual upslope.
by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: I like
by EliminateMe on Sep 27, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I like
by EliminateMe on Sep 28, 2007 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by llamalimbo1 on Sep 27, 2007 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
LF: 280 feet
LCF bullpen: 447 feet
CF: 480 feet
RCF bullpen: 440 feet
RF: 258 feet
Backstop: 74 feet
by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
So, no.
by groug on Sep 27, 2007 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Not a problem if the giants could actually develop their own hitting, but that's another couple hundred threads.
by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by rxmeister on Sep 27, 2007 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Also, I would argue that having a pitching-friendly parks serves to attract free agent pitcher and discourage free agent hitters, making it more important for a team with a pitcher's park to focus on developing bats than arms.
by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by leftymalo on Sep 27, 2007 9:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
One suggestion along those line is it seems like there are very few true pull hitters anymore. I sometimes wonder what Darrel Evans would do in AT&T. Everything he hit was to the right of straight RF. Just for fun, I'd like to see what a LH version of Pedro Feliz would do in AT&T. Most hitters these days seem to try to hit the ball straight away and they don't take advantage of the short porch at AT&T enough. Plus, if they tattoo the RF wall, there are often some mighty interesting bounces that come off that thing.
by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 27, 2007 9:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Well, ok, it isn't perfect. Ditch the damn cars on the left field wall.
Actually, I'm kinda of amazed that I can only recall one ball that would have been a homer but hit the top of that silly thing. It was a Kent hit back when it was just one car instead of the family of cars they have now.
Anyone recall any other times someone hit it?
Also re: bullpens. Once or twice I've had seats real close to the bullpens and it is cool to be that close to the pitchers and watch them warm up.
by Poe on Sep 28, 2007 5:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
by jponry on Sep 29, 2007 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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