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Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?

With Bonds leaving and being the only human being who is not really all that effected by the ridiculous AT&T Park dimensions (unless you count his blast last night, sigh), is it time to fill in Triples/Mirabelli Alley and make it, say, 400 ft to left-center?  It would still be a good pitcher's park (not many parks are 400+ ft to left and right center), maybe even better because the RF wouldn't have to play so far off the RF line.  They moved in the fences at the 'Stick and rightfully so.  Would've been nice if it had been done while Mays was playing but we shouldn't make the same mistake at AT&T.

I was all for the crazy dimensions when the park first opened, but the gimmick has just gotten frustrating for me.  Contrary to what Giants management believes, a triple is not the most exciting play in baseball unless its a slow-footed catcher who barely makes it to 3rd.  Everyone else gets in there standing if they line it into the 421-ft canyon.  Pretty much the excitement peaked when Mirabelli devirginized the Alley.

I never really argued against the alley because we had such an advantage with Bonds being one of the few lefty sluggers that could hit it out anywhere in the park.  I think now its time to put some seats out there or a kid's hang out spot or something.

How do you guys feel about the Alley after 8 years of anywhere-but-here bombs?  Schierholz would have a HR already.  If you do think the Alley needs to go and fences moved in, what should go there?  The more creative the better.

Poll
Should the Giants get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Yes
15 votes
No
118 votes
Wait a couple years
11 votes

144 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
The more creative the better?!?  Why not just keep it?  It's what makes our park...well, our park.  

It's a unique feature, it isn't too unfair, and you'd have a hard time filling in that area and not having it look like it wasn't an afterthought.  The whole idea of the portwalk, knothole gang, arcade, arches thing is a strong design concept.  Leave it be.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
+1
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I agree with JRPhillips
Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
*This*

Too Obscure ?

Ben Copeland, because face it, Who was left to adopt ?

by nvsfg on Sep 27, 2007 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I guess I just don't see it as the defining feature of the park like a lot of people.  The portwalk is what makes the park for me.  I'm just sick and tired of seeing balls get caught 410-ft from home plate.  I think if they extended the bleachers out there it wouldn't look bad at all.
Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Trust me...architecturally speaking, it works perfect the way it is right now.

You said you don't see it as a defining feature, but the portwalk is?  The deep right center alley, the faux brick wall, the arches...they're all an extension of the portwalk.  It's all the same theme, not a mish-mash of different ideas that are unrelated.    

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I don't really care about the architecture.  I care about the baseball and I'm sick of 400-ft outs.  That and I don't think taking out the Alley will be taking away from the theme of the park.  Maybe I just know nothing about architectural themes.  Not maybe, I don't know anything about architectural themes.
Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
If baseball stadiums didn't have 410-foot outs, Giants fans would never have had this.

by sfgfan on Sep 28, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Remember when Kruk and Kuip started calling it Finley's Alley? That didn't last.

by kingofthacove on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If it ain't broke
Mission: Go out and find the talent the necessary talent that can use the park's dimensions to the home team's  advantage.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 2:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
If you mean go get right handed power hitters or strong fielding right fielders, I'm pretty much with you. If you mean anything else, the park doesn't make enough of a difference for it to matter.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
With all that area to cover in RCF a solid defensive CF and RF is important. A hitter that sprays the ball to all fields should do well at ATT. I know most fans are looking for hitters with 30+ HR power (aren't we all) however doubles hitters should also fare well at this yard. Especially when team speed improves. One of the nicest things I have seen the last month is SF baserunners going from first to third on a single or better yet scoring from first on a double. Hope to see plenty of that in 2008.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
See, the problem with this kind of thinking is that you are describing players who would fare well at any ballpark, not just this one. Doubles hitters? They'd do well at any park. A guy who can hit to all fields? Good everywhere. Guys who go from first to third on a single? Should happen everywhere, regardless of ballpark. A guy should usually (well, often enough) score from first on a double. It's just good baseball, not AT&T baseball.

If you don't believe in power at AT&T, I only need to submit one piece of evidence: What did the lineup look like the last time the Giants had a winning record at home? The park might devastate lefty power and somewhat depress righties, but it will be impossible for us to win without it.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
Power is good and important. If SF can field 5 -7 players with 12-20 HR power (Molina,Frandsen, Winn, 1B, 3B etc) that could work. Mix in a ton of doubles and plenty of triples, SBs, scotch, solid defense, fine pitching performance, a couple of blondes and brunettes, a save and voila!

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
Don't know if we could hope for quite that much from Frandsen. The idea is absolutely right, though. The idea that first you build with power and then adjust the rest of the roster for the park as opposed to the other way around is the most important thing I'm trying to get across.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
Believe Franny could be a 10-15 HR guy. Let him get acclimated to the league and he could possibly even become a 15-18 HR guy. Time will tell.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
I'm one of Frandsen's biggest fans, but him breaking double digits on home runs will be unlikely to happen in his career more than twice.
SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's hope
Expect better days ahead for Frandsen. In 250 ABs he has hit 4 HRs. Believe he can become a ML starter and #2 where he could possibly get 600 ABs a season. Projecting that out and with Frandsen becoming acclimated to the league could see him routinely hitting 10-15 a season.

by wilriv21 on Sep 28, 2007 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
IMO if the Giants don't get a couple of power hitters, they won't score a lot of runs.

by sharksrog on Sep 27, 2007 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone has a different definition
IMO if the Giants don't get a couple of power hitters

What is your definition of a power hitter? Is there a certain SLG%, number of HRs etc?

by wilriv21 on Sep 28, 2007 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
Have to agree with your comments. If the "park effect" is so dominant, why not play to the park ?

While guys with "plus doubles" power and speed are not easy to find, the Giants do have a core of young players that could take advantage of it now.

The "speed" guys hitting 3B and scoring from 1B on doubles, just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy :-)

Ben Copeland, because face it, Who was left to adopt ?

by nvsfg on Sep 27, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
See, that's the thing! The "park effects" are not that dominant! At worst they force you to focus on right handed power instead of power from both sides. At worst.

The Giants have never had a winning season at AT&T without a power core. We've had plenty of speedy doubles hitters in the middle of the order that got us a bunch of losses.

The easiest thing in the world to do is overestimate park effects. They're not that important.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: If it ain't broke
Not only that, but they'd be absolutely terrible in other parks where we play half our games. And other teams will wise up and start defending that part of the field more aggressively at the Big Phone. There goes your offense.

Get guys who hit for power and don't make outs. It's a pretty easy concept to understand. The execution however...

Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. Can't wait for Zito to start Opening Day '08 so I can get a leg up on my drinking.

by Punch Rockgroin on Sep 27, 2007 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Add a pool.
Bochy: grounded until he stops hitting and running with slow runners and crappy hitters

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 27, 2007 2:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
You're right that a triple isn't the most exciting play - but an inside-the-park home run is (though the suicide squeeze deserves special mention). Though it was only the AS game, Ichiro's feat was pretty cool, no? And speaking of Schierholz, he came close to going for it on a couple of occasions.
PBB is right: the architecture of the thing is also worth it in itself.
Leave it as is.

by BigO on Sep 27, 2007 2:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Yeah Ichiro's feat was cool but it was hit off one of the arches and not in the Alley.  The park will still have a lot of unique features if we take it, but looks like I'm going to be in the major minority on this one.
Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Not trying to blow you out of the water here steve...everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  

I'm just telling you what the thought is behind these things from the perspective of an architect.  The character of the whole park is based off of the portwalk.  Everything relates back to that strong linear form.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I honestly haven't even tried to think about it from an architect's POV but thanks for the perspective.

From a baseball POV are you not sick of the Alley?

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
From a baseball point of view...I think it's a relatively fair feature.  Yes you have a good amount of 400 foot cans of corn, but you also have a short porch down the right field line.  Granted you've got the arcade to get it up and over, but because of that shorter porch, you can get by with a weaker armed Right Fielder (Randy Winn says thank you).  If lefty with marginal speed hits a frozen rope down the right field line, there's a good chance that he'll only get a single out of it, and not the customary double from most parks.  

It's a give and take kind of thing for me.  Yes you have 400+ foot outs, but you've got a great theme, that's there for a reason and not arbitrary like the f'ing pool in Arizona or the hill in Houston.  The park was planned with all of this in mind.

If you're interested and haven't done it yet, I strongly encourage the tours they do of the ballpark.  If you get a good guide, you'll hear all kinds of interesting tidbits about the design.  For instance, did you know that originally the plan was to have the ballpark rotated 180 degrees from it's current position?  HOK (the architects) then did a wind study and found that while the views of the skyline would be spectacular, it would be next to impossible to hit one out because you'd be hitting it right into the marine breeze.  Not to mention the 40,000 frozen fans every night.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I would think it was more fair if it wasn't also 404-ft to left center.  Would you be opposed to moving that wall in?  

It's pretty damn hard to hit it into the arcade when the winds blowin in and I've only seen a couple guys get cheapies this year down the RF line.

Maybe its just the fact that the Bonds-era is ending that I'm wanting a change.  If the Giants were winning I probably wouldn't care so much either.  But I do feel sorry for our young lefty hitters who have to jog back the the dugout after they hit a ball about as well as they can.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
No....I wouldn't move left-center to compensate for the vast right-center if that's what you're asking.

The compensation for a big right center is the arcade portion of right field.  I know that the wind pushes balls towards centerfield as it whips around that corner of the seating bowl, or it comes in through the arches as K&K have suggested before.    

But to change right center because of what's going on in left center doesn't help the lefties unless they're able to hit opposite field dingers.  What you're suggesting would make the righties very happy, and not help all that many lefties I believe.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
It wouldn't help lefties out as much as righties, no, but I think that moving that wall in would make it more fair.  I would still prefer to get rid of the Alley though.

I'm just trying to think of the youth era we are entering.  Bonds always knew he could hit it out, but these young kids look out there and probably say, "Damn, that's far."  Maybe they don't think like that, hopefully they just try to drive the ball as hard as they can, but it's gotta be frustrating.

I am by no means a HR fanatic or anything, I just want a fair park and I honestly don't think AT&T plays fair on  most nights.  Yeah, both teams are playing on the same field, but getting a handful of HRs taken away a year when stats are what get you paid has got to piss some players off.

I haven't felt this way about the park until pretty recently and its really just wanting the players to not dread hitting in their home park.    

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Yo, don't screw with the ballpark please.  

by Skaldheim on Sep 27, 2007 2:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
No.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
if they change anything they should get rid of that ridiculous chevron ad that changes the height of the wall.  hated that thing since day 1.
2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Definitely.  Ever sit in those seats right behind the sign?  It's pretty much the worst seat you can get!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 27, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: that's a good place to put the Bonds statue
That would be pretty sweet.  And welcome to the minority.
Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Sep 27, 2007 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: that's a good place to put the Bonds statue
Yeah, how about IN THE FIELD OF PLAY?  Well, maybe it should go in left, with that look on his face as the ball sails over his head into the stands when some Giants "hurler" just served one up.

by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
This is a proposition on par with the Rally Monkey.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
That was harsh. I should have said changing the dementions of the park was merely an annoying and unnecessary move. The Rally Monkey is annoying, unnecessary, and inspires rage in the hearts of people who can use their brains.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I'm almost inclined to keep the typo "dementions." It sounds like an evil blueprint or something.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 27, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Eh, I don't mind triples alley.

It beats the hell out of the godawful mini golf course that is Minute Maid Park.  

by wedge on Sep 27, 2007 3:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Propose change to ATT
There is a change I would like to see at ATT (and all parks) is to move the bullpens off the field.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Another interesting tidbit from the resident wannabe architect (can't legally call myself one yet)/ballpark guru....Supposedly, MLB requires all new bullpens to be outside of the field of play.  During the planning stages, someone "mistakenly" forgot to program (set aside) space for them.  It wasn't until further down the line when someone noticed it and by that point, it was too late to change.  
Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Put the home team bullpen in front of MoMo's and the visitor bullpen .....

How could they "mistakenly" forget the bullpens? What is that large opening behind LF between the fair pole and the Chevron car? Why don't they put both pens there?

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
They need that opening for Lou Seal's golf cart to get on and off the field.

I'm with you, the forgetting-the-bullpen story sounds like an urban legend...

SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Sep 27, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
That tunnel is the only reasonable street access for loading and deliveries.  Everything else would have to come through the arches, which is a bitch if you've got a tall load I would think.

If you wanted that kind of a change, it would probably be best to move the centerfield concession stand at field level further under the bleachers, and put both 'pens directly behind the centerfield fence (where the "hitters eye" area is currently.  

I haven't had a chance to get to the bottom of this "mistake" of leaving them out, but in architecture, things like that happen all the time....People "forget" something, continue on, and when the issue pops up, it's too late to change and have it not be an eyesore or hassle.  There's no doubt, someone wanted some cool feature (the brick running all the way out past 420, alot of front row bleacher seats in the OF, who knows) and their way of getting that was to design it knowing there wasn't room for the 'pens.  Then when the issue came back up, the pens could just be moved to foul territory and the "cool features" would remain.  Trust me, this kind of shenanigans happens all the time in the profession.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
"Everything else would have to come through the arches, which is a bitch if you've got a tall load I would think."

This reminds of something that happened a couple of years ago.  We were headed into the game on a cap night and running a tad late. (Women!) They were out of caps at the Lefty O'Doul Gate, so we headed over to the gate behind CF via the portwalk.  There was on pre-game on-field promotion with the Budweiser Clydesdales and they were bringing the entire team and draft carriage out through the gate under the arcade (where the knothole gang is) and then planned to drive the carriage along the portwalk where I assume they would load them onto a truck near the the O'Doul bridge.  

We stopped to watch them as it's not often you get to see those huge horses really close. As they were trying to steer the team through the arcade, the horses were getting a little spooked and were having trouble making the hard right turn.  It was acually a little scarry as one of the drivers came down from the top of the cart to try and control the horses. Their stomping feet moving was actually shaking the cement sidewalk of the portwalk.

It was exciting, but I didn't get a damn cap that night.

Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Reminds me of the time I got to the ferry dock in Alameda 10 minutes or so before departure, but when the ferry pulled in, it was packed.  They didn't have enough room for all of the Alameda folks, so I had to make my way to the ballpark.  It was during the Chef's hat giveaway, and I really wanted one of those (being into food and all).  Needless to say, I got to the ballpark 5 or 10 minutes late and missed out on the hats.

by sfgfan on Sep 28, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
From middle school through high school, I used to design ballparks on my own, for the hell of it. There were only a couple ways I could justify to myself putting the bullpens anywhere other than on the field of play without offending my aesthetic sensibilities:

-- There's the Minute Maid Park model, with the bullpens pretty much completely hidden underneath space where fans tread. If the bullpens weren't there, it would just be storage space, or something.
-- The Fenway model, with the bullpens in a power alley behind a low fence.

In other words, I love bullpens on the field of play. It's a more effective use of space to have them on the field, but more important, it's extremely annoying to try to keep track of all the action in a ballpark where the bullpens are out of sight.

As for our park's defining features, I've got a short story about the porch. While the park was under construction, I called the Giants offices and left a message asking how they could have a right field line only 300-odd feet when MLB rules specified at least 325 feet. One of the lower level executives actually called me back and we had a conversation in which he explained that they'd actually had to ask for an exemption. It was a good surprise to get that kind of response.

David Arnott
Sportszilla -- Kickass Sports Writing
Adopted EME

by David Arnott on Sep 27, 2007 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Very cool, very cool
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."!

by GameSix on Sep 28, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
No way.  Bullpens on the field are old-school.  If your seats are down the RF line you can heckle the bejesus out of the opposition's crappy 5th relief pitcher.
Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Sep 27, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Remember that when we finally develop our lone power-hitting prospect who happens to be a first baseman and breaks his ankle.

by cheno on Sep 27, 2007 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Using that same logic, all the brick should be removed from Wrigley to prevent doods running into them head first!
Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Is the hill still out in Houston? Same song and dance. And let's play with tennis balls! Except that the hill is retarded. The brick and the bullpens might be risks, but they're not retarded at the same time.

Sorry, I actually do respect the risk that these bullpens present and I'm not trying to be mean about it. I just thought tennis balls were funny. That said, how many broken ankles have we seen since we moved in? I don't think the risk quite warrants the trouble it would take to move them.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
I'm not reading you here.  I was being sarcastic with my Wrigley Field comment...I'm for leaving the bullpens where they are.  It's a risk, yes...an accepted risk, and it's something that makes our park unique, even though others have this feature as well.

The point I was trying to illustrate above is that if you move them to somewhere else, you're going to most definitely lose some seats and the functionality of the outfield bleacher setup could be compromised.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
However, in all honesty if SF did not move the bullpen for Bonds (and he possibly being injured) they certainly aren't going to move them now. I just don't like them on the playing surface because someone could get injured.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
So let me ask you this hypothetical....

Put on your "owner" hat on.  If moving the bullpen to the outfield lost you...I dunno, 2-3,000 seats out in the bleachers, would you be OK with it?  Remove an entire section or two out there, and you'd have your bullpens out of the way, but you'd be limiting the capacity of your park, all other things staying as they are.  

Keep in mind that we don't have any 2nd or 3rd level seats in the outfield (excluding the sliver of stuff behind the left field pole).  Not only that, but you've got what equates to next to nothing for seats along the arcade.  This isn't Yankee Stadium or where the evil ones play.  Our place can't hold 60,000 and the seats we do have are at a premium.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
As an owner I am thinking both profit and product. If is was Dave Roberts in left I leave bullpen where it is, however, when you have arguably the greatest player of his generation playing LF and a very large salary commitment to him, I must think and re-think before I put a bullpen in foul territory where he could possibly get injured.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Couldn't agree with you more on this...but what's to say that our shit-headed ownership group feels the same way?  Barry Bonds, Dave Roberts...they come and go...but for every seat that's lost...that's $$$ that they'll never get back.  It's a delicate balance, no doubt.  

I can tell you this...of all the ballparks I've visited, we have far and away one of the best.  It's all the little things that you don't notice that make it so much better than anything else.  

Like I said earlier, if this kind of stuff gets you wet, like it does for me...then take the tour.  They're offered year round, and you'll learn all kinds of interesting things about the park we call home.  

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Thanks, next time up in The City I will schedule the tour. It truly is a gem. Hopefully it will be rocking in 2008.

by wilriv21 on Sep 27, 2007 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Propose change to ATT
Maybe if there's an earthquake! :P
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
No one minds the 400-ft outs when our guys catch them.
Bochy: grounded until he stops hitting and running with slow runners and crappy hitters

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.
I'd consider the change when the Giants sign or develop a decent left-handed power hitter in his prime.

In other words, never.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 3:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like
funny ball parks.

I even liked the crazy suggestion from the mid-90s that they should have NO fence at Coors (pre humidor), just maybe a gradual upslope.

by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I like
Wouldn't that mean outfielders going into the bleachers to try to field balls? That'd be pretty hilarious, in an insanely dangerous kind of way.
SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Sep 27, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I like
Um, no bleachers.

by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I like
In that case, forget it.
SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Sep 28, 2007 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
it becomes singles alley when bengie comes up to the plate...
Free Justin Knoedler! (not by trading him to another team though)

by llamalimbo1 on Sep 27, 2007 3:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Polo Grounds had really weird dimensions:

LF: 280 feet

LCF bullpen: 447 feet

CF: 480 feet

RCF bullpen: 440 feet

RF: 258 feet

Backstop: 74 feet

Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 3:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I've "played" some games on the Playstation at the Polo Grounds.  That thing was hysterical.  There was basically no reason to even have someone in RF or LF.  Just put three guys in center and even then the'll be running forever.  I don't think I ever hit a ball out to dead away center, but I might have had a triple or two out there.  
Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Honestly, since other teams are likely to have more power, it'll turn more of their doubles and triples into homers than it will for us, which will hurt the Giants.

So, no.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 27, 2007 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Other teams don't have to sell free agents on losing 5 or 6 bombs a season (WAG).

Not a problem if the giants could actually develop their own hitting, but that's another couple hundred threads.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
the future of this team is built on pitching, and I don't have to tell anyone that all of our top prospects over A ball are pitchers. Changing the stadium dimensions to make it easier to hit there is going to hurt the Giants in the long run, not help them. The Giants would have to start a mass exodus of young pitching for hitters if they wanted to win in such a ballpark and why would they want to do that?? Keep the dimensions of the park right where they are. It's the best for the Giants and upcoming super events like the Barry Manilow-Brian Boitano concert!! How much are they paying people to attend that concert, anyway??
Randy Messenger: "Remember when my ERA was under 2.00??"

by rxmeister on Sep 27, 2007 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
A rising tide raises all boats. The park helps opposing pitchers as well as the Giants'. That also means that the park depresses the Giants' offense, which in turns means that they have to start bringing in hitters regardless of what they do in right-center. Whether that entails a mass pitching exodus, well, probably.

Also, I would argue that having a pitching-friendly parks serves to attract free agent pitcher and discourage free agent hitters, making it more important for a team with a pitcher's park to focus on developing bats than arms.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Sep 27, 2007 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I mused about this, with some well-executed CAD/CAM-like illustrations, back in June.
Jesse Foppert: Welcome home, my son. And meet your adopted brother, Kelvin Pichardo. He's from the Dominican Republic.

by leftymalo on Sep 27, 2007 9:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I love the park the way it is. I think they already moved LF in a few feet and I wish they hadn't.  AT&T and Petco are my two favorite ballparks for the very reason they are monsters.  HR's have become way too cheap.  Whether that changes as we move the the (ahem) next era remains to be seen. I just think a HR should really mean something and teams need to find other ways to score runs.

One suggestion along those line is it seems like there are very few true pull hitters anymore.  I sometimes wonder what Darrel Evans would do in AT&T.  Everything he hit was to the right of straight RF.  Just for fun, I'd like to see what a LH version of Pedro Feliz would do in AT&T.  Most hitters these days seem to try to hit the ball straight away and they don't take advantage of the short porch at AT&T enough. Plus, if they tattoo the RF wall, there are often some mighty interesting bounces that come off that thing.

by DrBGiantsfan on Sep 27, 2007 9:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
Keep the alley. Don't F with perfection.

Well, ok, it isn't perfect. Ditch the damn cars on the left field wall.

Actually, I'm kinda of amazed that I can only recall one ball that would have been a homer but hit the top of that silly thing. It was a Kent hit back when it was just one car instead of the family of cars they have now.

Anyone recall any other times someone hit it?

Also re: bullpens. Once or twice I've had seats real close to the bullpens and it is cool to be that close to the pitchers and watch them warm up.

Merkin Valdez career SO/9: 10.8

by Poe on Sep 28, 2007 5:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Poll: Get rid of Triples/Mirabelli Alley?
I remember a game where David Bell hit a dramatic go-ahead HR in the 8th inning that just barely cleared the cars.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 29, 2007 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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