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Around SBN: Chan Sung Jung Wins Thriller Over Dustin Poirier

Sigh.

This week's secret catchphrase: "End of an era." Whenever you hear "end of an era", the lights should flicker and people should scream. If that doesn't happen, you're doing it wrong.

The end of the Bonds era means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Most folks are sad that they don't get to see him hit anymore, and rightfully so. Keep your Pujolseseses and A-Rods; there will never be another hitter who was so feared, so intelligent, and so dominating. There was never a "book" on Bonds. There wasn't a Benardian hole above Bonds's strike zone, or the 1"x1" slider-shaped hole that Jeff Kent had. Throw it in the strike zone, and it would get crushed. Throw it out of the strike zone, and he'd spit on it. Pujols and Rodriguez are two of the greatest hitters to ever live, but Bonds will always be the best we've ever seen.

Dur. That paragraph is 125 words of blather you've already heard or read a million times this week, though at least I snuck in the adjective "Benardian." But here's what the end of the Bonds era really means to me:

The Giants ain't good no more.

Oh, I'm aware they haven't been good for a couple of years now, but with Bonds there was always that stray beam of optimism that comes with having a cartoon player in the lineup. "Yeah, the lineup doesn't look so hot, but if everyone hits around their career average, and Barry hits .370/.500/.750, we should have a shot." It seems ridiculous to read such a thing now, but there was a time when it was valid. The 2003 team won 100 games, but they had no business winning 100 games. At least, it wouldn't make sense if you just looked at the first 24 roster spots. But the team had Bonds.

It was the same story in 2004, though the bullpen was wretched enough to keep the team out of the playoffs. When Bonds was hurt in 2005, it almost made the losing okay. As in, yeah, this team isn't good, but that's because we don't have our magic player. The following year, there wasn't a better offseason addition for any team than a (relatively) healthy Bonds. Before this season started, any optimism about this team revolved around Bonds's health.

From 1997 to 2007, we expected the Giants to win. There were some pessimists before every season - and there sure weren't too many fans thinking this 2007 team was anything special - but having Bonds on the Giants meant the Giants had a chance.

Now? No chance. You can't point to the worst-to-first shenanigans of the 1997 team because that team had Bonds. This team is going to be filled with the Steve Scarsones, Dax Joneses, and Desi Wilsons of our time, except there isn't going to be a Bonds there when we find the diamonds in the rough - the Rich Aurilias and Bill Muellers. I'd love to be wrong, but the 2008 team is going to be some kind of awful.

Bonds hit one to the warning track and then limped away. Think of the warning track as 2002, and there's your metaphor for the Bonds Era. The worst part: the metaphor doesn't end with Bonds leaving the game, it ends with an 11-3 loss against a team actually fighting for something.

It's better to have contended and lost than to never have contended at all. Thanks, Barry.

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Re: Sigh.
A little Byron never hurt anyone. Well put.

For me, the important part is recognizing they aren't going to win the next years - to stop the idiot brigade here who think "LETS SIGN AROD LOLZ" oR "PROVEN VETERAN LINE DRIVE HITTERS SPEED AND DEFENSE" crowd. This will be the worst offense in baseball next year - mentally, I'm prepared to deal with that, because it will get better. Watching Matt Cain go 6-17 next year with a sub 3.00 era? Not so much.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Sep 27, 2007 1:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
And by Byron, I meant Tennyson. My English teachers would be ashamed of me.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Sep 27, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
And to think I thought you meant Byron as in Davis, and was just ignoring it because I didn't understand the relevance.

My English teachers would be even more ashamed of me. My basketball teachers would be proud, though.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Byron" and "basketball"

After searching this pic, I was amazed to learn about all the trouble Byron Houston has been in recently.

Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: "Byron" and "basketball"
Yikes... and that would have been Baron Davis, too. My basketball teachers are not proud of me. In fact, I think they hate me now.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
You mean to tell me that I wasted my time in putting this little thing together?!?

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
That's great.  The logo on the helmet is a little off, though.  Still, I like it!

by positiveuphemism on Sep 27, 2007 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Give him a rod already. Sheesh.
Make it a red hot one!
All is said and done , so... Let's Go Mets! (Kiss my heinie , Wil!)

by victor frankenstein on Sep 27, 2007 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
and it sorta looks like he has man-boobs. not that there's anything etc etc
Jesse Foppert: Welcome home, my son. And meet your adopted brother, Kelvin Pichardo. He's from the Dominican Republic.

by leftymalo on Sep 27, 2007 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
This team is going to be filled with the Steve Scarsones, Dax Joneses, and Desi Wilsons of our time

I'd actually be interested in watching a team of 25 clones of these three guys.  The Scarsone-Scarsone-Scarsone DP combo would be amazing.

by Stoned Slacker on Sep 27, 2007 1:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I am so depressed and sad. . . I wanted to cry last night and I felt like crying today. The video got me choked up. . .You couldn't explain it to non-Giants fans. You could just tell when he was going deep. He would crowd the plate a little more, just daring the pitcher to throw a strike. I'm gonna miss that. . . <sigh>
For WilltheThrill, this is Jon Miller saying goodnight. . . .

by WilltheThrill on Sep 27, 2007 1:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Shouldn't it be "Benardian"?  I'm assuming you're referring to Marvin since I can't remember Bernard Gilkey being so easily struck out by the high fastball.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Sep 27, 2007 1:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Good call. Inexcusable misspelling on my part.

by Grant Brisbee on Sep 27, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Great entry as always, Grant.

The "stretch run" here these past few weeks has functioned as a preview of what 2008 will be like for the Gigantes. Inept, anemic, impotent offense, coupled with a smidgen of speed and a dash of defense.

It won't be pretty.

Of course, I've rooted for bad teams before -- hell, I was raised as a Mets fan! -- so I'm not going anywhere. But it's going to be ugly.

As much as I appreciated BLB playing here -- and I DID appreciate him -- I realize now that in some ways I was still taking him for granted. Even surrounded by absolute scrubs, as you say, Barry's Giants could conceivably go all the way. Without him, they're not getting into the postseason without a ticket.

It was really sad at the yard last night. My wife was actually weeping as Barry took his curtain call. The last home game is always a sombre occasion, but this one was especially solemn.

Thanks, Barry. I'll miss you.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Sep 27, 2007 2:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I think I saw you two at the game last night.  I figured the weeping was lamenting her inability to choose a spouse.
Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Her ability to choose one has never been in question; if anything, she's TOO good at it.

As the saying goes, though, there's no accounting for taste.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Sep 27, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I too will miss Barry.
If I owned this place and Hell, I'd rent this out and live in Hell...

by ilselu1 on Sep 27, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Barry our Byronic hero?

Long time reader, new poster. Sorry, didn't have much to contribute, just wanted to see how this came out.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance

by tellusfrank on Sep 27, 2007 2:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
He's the perfect compliment to Renel, our Byronic Woman. I mean, seriously, anybody else see those guns she's loading? Woo!
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I met her last year when she came to an event at Mrs. Goofus's' business.  She was really cool. I noticed her lack of height, but didn't notice her guns.
Attention all cars: Be on the look-out for Ryan Klesko's missing power.

by Goofus on Sep 27, 2007 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Isn't it Byronic?
Like Rain on your wedding day

by zenbitz on Sep 27, 2007 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Nice. Actually thought of Byronic Woman but didn't know quite how to work it in.

Really, Renel has guns? Long time Bay Area native living in now in Beantown. I remember Renel on the morning zoo with Rick Chase on KMEL. Is Rick still there?

Boy, I miss the Bay more than I thought.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance

by tellusfrank on Sep 27, 2007 3:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
She was sporting some guns last night in the FSN preshow.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 27, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Rick Chase passed away a few years ago.

by Chaco on Sep 27, 2007 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Really. That makes me feel old.

May I ask how he died? I know he struggled with weight issues, no disrespect.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance

by tellusfrank on Sep 28, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
It hasn't really sunk in yet for me. I guess it will when I see Barry in another team's uniform for the first time. :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 27, 2007 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
What's the earliest Barry can sign with another club? Day after the end of the regular season? Day after the last World Series game? I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember the rules about those sort of things.
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Sep 27, 2007 4:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
After the end of the World Series.

by Caught Backcourt on Sep 27, 2007 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Free Agency Dates
The Day after the World Series is actually the first day for filing for free agency.  The 16th day after the World Series is the first day a player that filed for free agency can negoicate and sign a contract with any team other then his former team.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2003/01/important-transaction-dates_03.html

by giantsrainman on Sep 27, 2007 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Didn't Tomko and Cain pitch together:

"Padres pitcher Brett Tomko went to the front of the dugout and screamed at Cain, who had hollered at Hairston for flipping his bat after hitting a home run. "I was defending my teammate," Tomko said. "Bottom line, I thought it was a bad move by Cain."

WTF. Tomko is a pussy.

by benson11 on Sep 27, 2007 4:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
IIRC, Cain took Tomko's slot in the rotation.
Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 27, 2007 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
It took me a full day to recover from my first viewing of "Million Dollar Baby" , which stunned me - both the movie (Eastwood is just amazing in his depth as a director , in my opinion) and the recovering  from  a  freaking  movie  thing.

  Having witnessed Barry , and having him on my team , I feel pretty sure I will never recover from this. Chief , you hit it on the head...Barry was Hope , Power , and Glory  personified - and now we're going to try to ignore his absence...I wish you all , and myself , good fucking luck with that one.

All is said and done , so... Let's Go Mets! (Kiss my heinie , Wil!)

by victor frankenstein on Sep 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Mask that pain with booze, brother...The bottle will always listen.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Sep 27, 2007 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
No worries, Sabean all but said he was going to bring in some veteran relief help on his show this evening.  He didn't say a closer but that they needed some people to get to the ninth.

He is still in denial about the offense.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Sep 27, 2007 10:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I almost couldn't listen to that show today. I've never heard Sabean say so many different things that discredit any knowledge of baseball and teambuilding in such a short time without saying a single valid thing to break the streak.

In short:

  1. Teams lose because Barry Bonds distracts them from winning.
  2. Practically said the team knew they wouldn't bring Bonds back since at least the All-Star break but didn't tell him because other fanbases wouldn't appreciate the farewell tour.
  3. "The damn bullpen!" - Will look to sign veteran relievers or TRADE for relief help! Noah Lowry for Latrelle Hawkins, anybody!
  4. Rajai Davis should be viewed as an elite prospect.
  5. Barry Zito's contract isn't that big.
  6. My personal favorite! Matt Cain needs to learn how to control his emotions!
  7. Speed and Defense! Speed and Defense! The smart way to win is to field a team of 8 leadoff hitters because they'll set the table for each other! Ra! Ra! Ra!
Way to earn those initials, there, Brian. What a shitstorm.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 28, 2007 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
That reads exactly like Brian Sabean joke points that like half this site would make.

I was trying to make a joke about changing fanbases to another team, but I just can't.

That's fucking depressing.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 28, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
please tell me you are joking.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 28, 2007 3:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: I'm guessing this is the link.
Nice summary howie, we forgot to mention Tyler Walker, who when Ralph was trying to get Sabean to announce Wilson as his closer next year said it would be foolish to disregard Tyler Walker as a candidate or some BS like that.

I'm too depressed to go back and listen.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Sep 28, 2007 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
They should trade Lowry for Dontroy Willis
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Sep 28, 2007 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
In fairness, there's an awful lot of hyperbole here.  

1 - ok

2 - Sabean said they didn't tell Bonds earlier because "you never know how that might affect a player's performance or desire to play," i.e. they were concerned Barry might pull a tank job.

3 - He said they might look for help outside the organization if the "kids" (ie Wilson, Henn, Walker) can't cut it.  I think that's pretty reasonable.

Barbieri named those three as being the only viable options in the pen and Sabean agreed.  It didn't sound like Sabes has much confidence in Taschner, Kline, et al...which was encouraging.

4 - He said Rajei should be considered for a front line job, not as an elite player. When your other option is Dave Roberts, that's not a crazy statement. Additionally, Sabean's been pretty candid in past shows that Davis has a lot of work to do at the plate since he can't hit breaking balls.  I think Sabean is pretty realistic about what he is and is not.

5 - He did say something like this, and it was definitely ridiculous.

6 - Whatever.  Canned response to a stupid question from Tolbert.

by KCE on Sep 28, 2007 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I think this is perfectly a fair assessment of my late night rambling/summary. I do think that the bit about the bullpen is becoming a chirping point for Sabean ("the damn bullpen" was an actual quote that he said, with equal parts disgust and desperation) that's starting to get worrisome, and he was actually talking about trading for bullpen arms.

But I was exaggerating a lot. He was being very "I'm talking about a generic player when he was talking about Barry, but it just sounded so bad the way he was saying it that it was hard not to read something into his words. He didn't actually say Rajai was an elite prospect, but he did more or less say the guy should be treated like one, so I stretched that point, too. And I can understand what he means because of our talent deficiency we're in a position where Davis is our elite prospect. It's still a silly thing to say, even if there is sense behind it.

And I agree about the last one completely. As much as it hurts my ears to hear management feeding the speed line to thousands of fans who fall so hard for the park effects logic, I firmly believe Sabean takes the stance almost completely because he knows it will be hard to line up anything outside of speed and defense and would rather look like he has a plan than look like he tried to put a real team together and failed.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 28, 2007 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

2. is still ridiculous if that's his point
He has a salary to earn next year. The Giants were already out of the race by the all star break probably (don't remember, but at least by August things were definitely sucking). I think he'd likely turn it on if anything if he was told earlier rather than tank it, though I think "play the same he always has" is the most likely result".

3. Still sucks, you have to give the kids a chance to figure it out for at least all of 08, and bringing in FA mostly requires multi year contracts which should not be handed out this year.

 

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Sep 28, 2007 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Once an idiot, always an idiot.  Even if 10 years of blind, dumb luck + best player ever in the universe might convince people you deserve a job.

by zenbitz on Sep 28, 2007 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
"It's better to have contended and lost than to never have contended at all."

Beautifully put.

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."!

by GameSix on Sep 28, 2007 9:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: misch
Did Pat sink his ship with one bad outing?
yankeefan "If I had played my career hitting singles like Pete (Rose), I'd wear a dress." Mickey Mantle

by yankeefan57 on Sep 28, 2007 10:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Anyone notice the bullpen win-loss record from the 2003 team? They went 34-16. This year the bullpen was 20-32. Our starting pitching this year was much more balanced, but that team in 03 did have a Cy Young year from Schmitty. Our bullpen has a lot of good arms, they just lack in the clutch factor and like to give up runs late in the game to lose it, while shutting everyone out when down by 6 runs.

by joebirdie3 on Sep 28, 2007 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I see your point, but I can't help but be very skeptical about basing it on W-L records for the bullpen, which are maybe 6x more misleading than W-L for starters. I'm not saying the bullpen hasn't been a pain. I'm not quite sure what I am saying, actually. Anyway, that's all.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Sep 28, 2007 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
It's not about lacking a clutch factor. It's more about the fact that they are just not that good. You can't be clutch if you basically suck at what you do. It's an unealistic expectation.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Sep 28, 2007 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
The bullpen this year still has a decent ERA in the top 10 or so in MLB, so statswise they arent TERRIBLE, but yes when they give up runs late in the game it leads to a loss because the offense never scores after the 6th inning. So in regards to the clutch factor, I was referring to blowing leads like against the Padres the other night and losing those games while still maintaining decent ERA numbers

by joebirdie3 on Sep 28, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
That year, the Giants scored more runs, which means more runs in the late innings, which means more wins for the bullpen.

I mean, the main problem (offense) with this team (offense) is not really the bullpen (offense) because the bullpen (offense) can't hold a lead (offense) that the team doesn't have (offense), and it's too much to ask (offense) to ask them to hold a 1-run lead (offense) every night (offense).

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 28, 2007 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
So... you're saying we need more relievers?
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Sep 28, 2007 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I don't think his message is that hard to understand but you clearly did.  He is saying the lack of offense puts too much pressure on the bullpen resulting in some of their failures.  He is saying that the "Close and Late Offense" is far worse then the "Close and Late Pitching" and stats back him up.

Giants dead last in "Close and Late Offense":

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=60&group=8&season=2007& seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

While middle of the pack in "Close and Late Pitching":

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&seasonType=2&group=8&typ ereg&split=60&season=2007

I wonder if always takng Barry out of the lineup in "Close and Late" situations in which we had the lead had anything to do with this?

by giantsrainman on Sep 28, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I know!  I can't believe Natto didn't get everyone's sarcasm.
Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Sep 28, 2007 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Boy, is my face red!
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Sep 28, 2007 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
While our "Close and Late" ERA is only 3.12 which is pretty respectable, we have given up 29 homers, good enough for 2nd most in the league. Those close and late homers are a lot more memorable than the leadoff walk, stolen base, sac bunt, sac fly type of runs. Late inning homers make goats of pitchers more than bloopers do

by joebirdie3 on Sep 28, 2007 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
Grant, re: Bonds -- so feared (yes), so dominant (YES), so intelligent (well, I'm not sure I buy that). I never saw much sign of Bonds outthinking pitchers. Intelligent in my book was Carew. I remember seeing him walk up to the plate once on the Game of the Week, step back out of the batter's box and peer around the field, and then rifle line drives right through whatever gaps the fielders gave him. I realize no one could actually do it but sometimes I swear to god it looked like he was placing things off a T. That's intelligent hitting.

by NearestNorwich on Sep 28, 2007 8:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Sigh.
I have to completely disagree with your take on the "intellagence" of Rod Carew's hitting approach as opposed to Barry Bonds'.  I do agree that Rod (and Tony Gwynn too) looked for a hole in the infield defense and looked to hit the ball there.  But, neither of the guys worked the count or approached hitting understanding that an extra base hit was more valuable in most circumstances then a single.  Barry's goal was to first get an extra base hit and then if he had two strikes then (and only then) seek a single or walk.

The Rod Carew's (and Tony Gwynn's) approach was to sacrifice extra basehits and walks to get more singles and this can hardly be considered the most intelligent approach to hitting.

by giantsrainman on Sep 28, 2007 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

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