Clarification
I've calmed down. It isn't the news about Barry that ruined me; I was kind of expecting that he wouldn't be back. It was the interview with Brian Sabean on KNBR that did it. Paraphrased, once again:
So I'm going to hire my "Moneyball"-guy, but instead of stats, he's going to have a P.h.D. in Littlethingsology from Bovine University. Also, this entire season is the bullpen's fault, so if they get better, this team will be a playoff team.
The problem is that there isn't a magic cure. People think now that we aren't going to have to pay Barry, we can go and buy a better team. That's just not how the dynamics of this upcoming free agent market will work. Even if we could magically transfer the top eight position players from this free agent market into our lineup, it still wouldn't be a great lineup. It would cost $200M, and the players would only get worse over the lives of the contracts. We aren't in that 'win now at all costs' mode anymore, even if it would make sense to do so in this free agent market. We tried it, and, at the end of the day, it didn't work.
That isn't to say we won't try to compete. We have a surplus of pitching -- with as many as seven viable starting pitchers -- and the free agent market is brutally short of pitching. There's a chance we can turn one or two of those pitchers into young players who will help us now and help us a lot in the future. There's a chance that we'll be better off keeping that pitching depth for our future; it depends on what the trade market looks like. We'll look at free agents, to be sure. But we have to be sure that any player we get will still be valuable to us at the end of his contract. At the end of the day, there would be no sense in matching the young players we have with players who aren't going to retain their value when the young players come into their own.
I'm not going to say it's 'tough' to replace Barry. It's impossible to replace Barry, and I really think people are minimizing that point. If Barry wasn't on this team, this team would have had a historically bad season when it came to getting on base and hitting for power. With Barry, "historically bad" was just "worst in the league." There aren't many players who could have done that on their own. But right now, we need to see what our young players can do. At the end of the day, knowing our own capabilities and limitations will be an important part of our rebuilding plan.
We need to have patience, but understand that patience doesn't mean we need to prepare to lose for an extended period of time. We have a fantastic young starting pitching core -- perhaps the best staff in the game with which to build. It isn't going to take much for this team to be on the fringes of contention. We've seen what a team on the fringes of contention can do. It's important, though, that we don't settle for the fringes. We need to see what we have right now, and complement it as best we can going forward. This organization has a lot going for it. It will be hard work, but at the end of the day this team will be back on top of the division.
And I will trade for one overpriced veteran, who Bochy has already nicknamed 'Checkers'. Regardless of what they say about him, we're going to keep him....
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Re: Clarification
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 24, 2007 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2007 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 24, 2007 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
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I've grown tired of his double speak and megalomaniac kind of attitude. When a team is this bad sure it's reflective of the players and their performance, but the GM must step ahead and be accountable as well. Something tells me that Brian would rather field a team with the worst record in the majors, than admit to some of his faults and try to go about correcting them.
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And don't get me started on his inability to see young hitting.
I'm way beyond over Sabean.
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
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News flash: there's no bullpen in the league that can hold a 1-run lead for 3 innings day in and day out. ERA of 3.00 means over the course of 3 IPs you're going to give up one earned run. Only one bullpen in the majors is under 3.00, and that's only by a sliver (San Diego at 2.95).
by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
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Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
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by Mark carry on on Sep 24, 2007 10:24 AM PDT reply actions
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I won't go the serious route because if he told us something serious, I'd immediately think he was lying, because he never tells us what he's thinking, he'll usually just tell us what he was thinking (and sometimes not even that.
by BruteSentiment on Sep 24, 2007 10:30 AM PDT reply actions
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And the day is mine!
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 24, 2007 10:30 AM PDT reply actions
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by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2007 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
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by EliminateMe on Sep 24, 2007 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
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Steve Buscemi will play Eckstein.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 25, 2007 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
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How about a retarded kid who really really tries?
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by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Sep 26, 2007 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
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brilliant...
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2007 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
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I would have like to heard Sabean say:
"I will not overspend on free agents this offseason. We'll use Bonds' ABs on one of our younger guys like Fred Lewis."
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Oh, wait -- Sabean actually did say that. Brian, you've been listening to too much Alanis Morrisette. The ironic thing is not that Barry can still play; the ironic thing is that the Giants could still use him in 2008 to score runs every once in a while, and have chosen not to. If Magowan is to be believed (never a sure thing), money never came up in the discussion about whether to bring Bonds back next year. So it wasn't a financial decision, or a baseball decision (unless one decides they want to field a team that can't score runs), it was a punative decision.
But okay, Bonds is not coming back. So how does Sabean rebuild this team? By admitting publicly that the 2007-08 FA class is weak, and signing a player in their early 30s to a large, long-term contract (hello, Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones) is not the solution. By trading young pitching not named Cain or Lincecum for young prospects that might bear fruit in 2009 or 2010. By offering Bochy a bonus for limiting Durham, Aurilia and Roberts' to under 200 plate appearances each next season, provided Sabean can't unload them beforehand. And by personally offering to pay 50% of Barrry Zito's contract for the remainder of the duration.
Last but not least, by apologizing to the bullpen for scapegoating them and implying they're the reason we have yet to win our 70th game. Just shameful.
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What I'd like to hear - "We're going to build a team based around starting pitching, defense, and contact hitting. It'll be the most agonizing thing to watch in the whole, wide, world, but it will let us develop the talent we have. Kind of like watching the D-backs."
by Dude In Athens on Sep 24, 2007 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
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"Let's face it. I'm a terrible evaluator of offensive talent. I made about 2 good trades for offense in my time with the team, and those were to get Kent and Snow. After that, bad signing after bad signing after bad trade. I've never really bothered to learn what stats are out there, OPS, VORP, heck even OBP are basically just a bunch of letters to me. Show me a good batting average and some power and I'll pretty much just assume the guy is good.
"I can't draft offense for shit. I mean look at these guys, when was the last time we brought up a position player that turned out to be more than a utility guy at best? Never. So let's take stock: We have some pitching. Great. We have nothing to be excited about in the farm system, at least nothing that's less than 3-4 years away. We have a bunch of guys who we can give playing time to next year, and we'll probably be about as bad as we were next year. Heck, maybe we'll find one or two that can actually play, and the only way to find out is to let them have all the at bats.
"That means no more mediocre veteran players. Without Bonds we don't have the pressure to win right now. We can let the young guys develop and see what we actually have. Maybe I'll swing a trade where we give up a pitcher for some young offense. It might not work out but at least we'd be trading from our strength to improve our weakness. Wouldn't that be nice?
"So I'm sorry. I'm sorry I've failed to draft and develop position players. I went with a philosophy that worked for a while and I didn't adapt to changes in the game fast enough. The strategy stopped working and I stuck with it too long. So now I'm going to try to become better. I'm going to make some changes in how I draft. I'm going to look at our coaching throughout the minor league system and maybe fire some people. Maybe I'll even fire Joe Lefebvre. Maybe I need to hire a new assistant GM with a track record of developing position players. I'm working on it. And it wasn't the bullpen's fault.
"Also, fuck the Dodgers."
But I doubt that's what he'll say.
Beautifully said.
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 24, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
You're way too hard on Sabes
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by achiappanza on Sep 24, 2007 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Call from Sunset's Lawyer
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 11:53 AM PDT reply actions
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
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by howtheyscored on Sep 24, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
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Krukow: "That sure was some creative base-running by Rajai Davis."
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2007 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
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"I'm sorry we haven't developed a superstar, or even star, hitter in decades. If we can't draft one, I'll try to trade some pitching prospects for some hitting prospects. We aren't going to pass up the Vlad Guerrero's of the world for the Michael Tuckers, BUT since we will need a couple years to get this thing going, we're going to sign some place marginal, place-holding veterans to sensible contracts and platoon them with our current soon-to-be-marginal younger position players we do have, until we actually figure out how to spend our money wisely, which may take a couple years too, instead of doing the whole patch work thing."
I rarely comment on this site, because my sentiments are usually echoed by all, but this one, I dream of hearing it so much, I had to post it.
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Or it'd be nice to hear him say something along the lines of "I've decided that while we need speed and pitching, it won't hurt to find a few young players that can drive in some runs on a consistent basis. We have the money to go out and sign a big attractive name, but given our recent record of track success and the length of the contract they're looking for, we figure it's best to not pursue them just for the sake of it."
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by positiveuphemism on Sep 24, 2007 1:26 PM PDT reply actions
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Maybe some "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me out I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
And so on in that manner. At least two positive things would come of it. 1) We'd know he actually has lost his mind. 2) Geek-squee.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 24, 2007 1:33 PM PDT reply actions
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by Stuttering John Tamargo on Sep 24, 2007 2:41 PM PDT reply actions
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by VidaWantsYourCar on Sep 24, 2007 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
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Mainly, I wanted to hear about 2008 being a rebuilding year towards returning to competitiveness in 2009, but didn't.
I didn't want to hear that we are going to spend $90-95M even if we are not targeting a major acquisition.
About the bullpen, here's how I see it. There's nothing wrong with supporting the bullpen and saying that the bullpen is a major cause of our down year. I like our bullpen, but they are young and developing, and so they are to "blame" in that their poor performance contributed greatly to us having a very poor season.
Their success rate in preventing inherited runners from scoring is only around 60%. And only Kline is good at it, with his success rate in the 80's. Red Sox and Cubs had a 76% success rate, Indians 72%. Justin Speier, who we almost signed, had a success rate of 86%.
Moving our success rate from 60% to 75% would result in 37 more runners kept from scoring, which translate into approximately 4 more wins. The Giants would then be 73-83 right now, instead of 69-87. Remember, each win takes away a loss, so the bullpen accounted for approximately half of the games we were under .500.
If you add in that if they were that much more effective in keeping inherited runners from scoring, they would also be more effective in keeping runs from scoring period, that's additional wins that would swing the Giants way. Just two more wins would push the Giants to 75-81.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 24, 2007 5:26 PM PDT reply actions
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That just reinforces the point. Sure, the bullpen could be improved. But Sabean doesn't seem willing to cop to the fact that the offense sucks, and that a big chunk of that is due to the veterans acquired or re-signed just last offseason: Durham, Klesko, Aurilia, and to some extent Dave Roberts (whose first two months were wretched enough that it's taken him the rest of the season to get back to only slightly below his career average, which wasn't that hot to start with).
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But those problems, particularly Durham suddenly only hitting .643 OPS when he's been a career .800+ OPS hitting, is what caused our offense to be so poor this season. Durham's problems by itself is probably what dropped us to next to last; only 60 more runs and we are in the middle of the pack in the NL, not great but we would have been over .500 with that.
I would also add that you forgot Feliz, I assume he's on your "didn't hit" free agent signing list.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 25, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
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I didn't forget Feliz; I left him out because he has performed very predictably, consistently in line with his career numbers. The four that I identified have all performed moderately to staggeringly below their career averages.
Earlier in the season, Sabean made some noise about players not being ready to "answer the bell". I'd like to see some indication that he understands that depending heavily on 35+ year old players is more likely to result in unanswered bells.
by EliminateMe on Sep 25, 2007 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Three Words
by E Ticket on Sep 24, 2007 6:09 PM PDT reply actions
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Maybe this is one of the reasons for the low scoring? Trying to advance players from 2nd TO 1st usually doesn't give your SP lots of confidence..
by Roger Clemens on Sep 24, 2007 7:35 PM PDT reply actions
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by the way, I heard you play FOR THE YANKEES!!!11!!111
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by KyrieEleison on Sep 24, 2007 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
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by Roger Clemens on Sep 24, 2007 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
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by Grant Brisbee on Sep 24, 2007 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
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How about, "Oops, where did the rumor that Barry is not going to play with us next year get started? Of course we will sign our best player for 2008. You think I'm crazy?"
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by JSully on Sep 24, 2007 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions

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