Corner Infielders for 2008
As the catchers for next season aren't that divisive i'm adding a discussion for corner infielders as well. Who do people believe should be the starting 1B & 3B for us next year?
Under Contract: Ortmeier, Aurilia
Expiring Contracts: Klesko, Feliz
By other 1B or 3B, it's sensible to be realistic & think of realistic free agent or trade targets, because we'd all love better corner infielders if possible!
Personally, it depends on what our outfield options are, i'm not overly high on Ortmeier but i'd like to see him get playing time to prove how good he is. If he's not going to get any in the outfield (which he's probably not going to get alot) then i'd like to see him at 1B.
It'd be nice if we could obtain a good young 3B (or 1B) via trade (perhaps for Lowry) but if not there isn't much available in free agency. Neither Aurilia or Feliz would excite me, but either could be ok as reasonable short term stopgaps.
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56 comments
Comments
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
Carlos Pena and Akinori Iwamura for Lowry and Hennessey?
by southcitysteve on Sep 17, 2007 3:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by GiantFan on Sep 17, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by GiantFan on Sep 17, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by southcitysteve on Sep 17, 2007 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by nick on Sep 17, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by southcitysteve on Sep 17, 2007 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outside the box
by W8ingForATitle on Sep 17, 2007 3:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Outside the box
by Sayhey on Sep 17, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
I will summarize:
Crap-Crap?
Crap-Other?
Other-Other?
by zenbitz on Sep 17, 2007 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by howtheyscored on Sep 17, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by GiantFan on Sep 17, 2007 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
as for 3rd, trade pitching for a young, MLB ready hitter (if they exist). If not, i guess Feliz if he bats 8th.
by April3rdLifeBegins on Sep 18, 2007 12:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by Lyle on Sep 18, 2007 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
errr....
by Lyle on Sep 18, 2007 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by sharksrog on Sep 18, 2007 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by April3rdLifeBegins on Sep 19, 2007 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by GiantFan on Sep 19, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
No to re-signing Feliz!
No to re-signing Vizquel!
No to re-signing Klesko!
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 1:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
Also, he won't want less than three years. So, the alternative is Pedro!
Second of all, you should play A-Rod at shortstop if you want severely diminished range at the position followed by an injured superstar. ANY pipedreadm plans for the guy have to be at third.
Third of all, oh yeah I mentioned pipedream already. Well, that'll cover it, then.
by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2007 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by Natto on Sep 18, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
Now your post works.
by awesomer on Sep 18, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
2007 Giants Team OPS+, 88. Runs Scored, 627 (and counting, but with 12 games left they probably ain't gonna reach 700)
Take out Barry Bonds in 2008, and watch that 88 sink.
by awesomer on Sep 18, 2007 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by sharksrog on Sep 18, 2007 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe we were talking about offensive rebuild
by awesomer on Sep 19, 2007 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
We might as well give up the facade, guys. Giantrainman is on to us.
by EliminateMe on Sep 18, 2007 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
No to re-signing Vizquel!
No to re-signing Klesko!
And NO to signing A-Rod!
by Anticon23 on Sep 18, 2007 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
And even if we could create that space by offloading contracts, would we have enough ability to fit around them & be any better than this year?
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
I'm not sure adding A-Rod & Lowell(the one we'd get rather the career year version) but subtracting Bonds, Feliz, Klesko & Vizquel suddenly turns this team into a contender.
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hate to say it, but
But yeah, A-Rod would cover the loss of Bonds and then some, but Lowell would only be a moderate improvement over Feliz unless you expect him to repeat a career year in his decline phase at a park that would depress his stats, and otherwise we're the exact same team with significantly less money available over the next 5 years.
by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
So the questions remaining are how will Ortmeier and Schierholtz production compare to Klesko and Vizquel? I find it hard to believe that their combined performance will not be considerably better since is is so easy to be better the what we got from Vizquel. If I were a betting man I would bet that Ortmeier will match what we got from Klesko and Schierholtz will give us another 30% improvement over Vizquel.
The result of all of this is that we will have improved in 3 offensive positions (including two heart of the order positions) by 30% each. This improvement shculd be enough to increase our run scoring by at least 10% if not more. In addiition, our young pitching should only get better in 2008. I would say that it would be very reasonable to expect at least a 5% improvement in run prevention if not more. This combined would result in a 15% plus run differential improvement. This should be more then enough to make us instant playoff contenters in 2008!
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
I don't think it's safe to assume our young pitching will get better next year, there's no reason to suggest Lincecum or Cain are suddenly going to get better, Lowry is probably due for a downturn & Correia or Sanchez are unproven.
The defence will obviously be worse, with Feliz & Vizquel gone. But neither of those are the issue, the issue is the offense.
A-Rod will replace Bonds production & more, but will still suffer from being pitched around every time.
Lowell will be an improvement on Feliz offensively, but isn't going to produce much worse numbers than this year, due to him coming down from a career year & moving to a less friendly ballpark.
It's unlikely that Ortmeier will match Klesko's production, you're assuming alot about his continued performance.
You're also assuming that Schierholtz will perform at the same level, which is quite a big assumption.
Looking at the side offensively you have:
Right side of infield: Ortmeier & Frandsen/Durham
Left side of infield: A-Rod & Lowell
Outfield: Schierholtz, Roberts & Winn
Does that look like a great side to you? The left side of the infield is obviously strong, but the outfield & the right side of the infield are both below average, even assuming that Shierholtz & Ortmeier can perform to a high standard!
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
Because A-Rod and Lowell play in more games than Bonds and Feliz, of course they are going to have a ton more runs. You really have to cover the difference by including Bonds's replacements. That would cut your "adjusted" 50 runs to something like 20 or 30, which means the 20 extra runs you're looking for from Schierholtz would have to be something like 40-50 extra runs. And that could be pretty hard.
I've come to this conclusion using the same logic that you are showing in coming to yours. Would you say that's a fair assessment?
by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2007 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
If calculated the difference in runs scored per game between our team this year & our team this year without Bonds & Feliz but with A-Rod & Lowell instead (i took Lowells RC27 from last year instead of this, due to his career year) It works out as 0.09 runs a game. In other words, we'd have scored around 13 more runs at this stage of the season. Now that's an improvement & would have taken us from 29th in MLB to joint 28th but i wouldn't call it a substantial one!
Also, it doesn't take into account park affects, defence, etc.
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by Anticon23 on Sep 18, 2007 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by giantsrainman on Sep 18, 2007 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by sharksrog on Sep 18, 2007 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
A-Rod and Lowell have produced 259 runs thus far this year while Bonds and Feliz have only produced 158. It should also be reasonalbe to expect Schierholtz, Ortmeier, and Frandsen to produce at least 20 more runs in 2008 then Klesko, Durham, and Vizquel produced in 2007. This is a net potential run increase of 121 and I
am only planing on getting 70 of these runs.
I think it is also reasonable to expect out young pitching to mature enough to give u0 35 less runs in 2008 resulting in an improvement of 105 runs in our run differential from 2007 to 2008. This improvement (based on 2007 numbers) would actually place the Giants right with the Padres for number one in the NL!
by giantsrainman on Sep 19, 2007 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2007 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
by Roger on Sep 18, 2007 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Corner Infielders for 2008
The free agent class is thin, and the Giants don't have much to trade. Maybe they will get lucky. Being very lucky seems to be what it would take to make the Giants a competitor in 2008.
by sharksrog on Sep 18, 2007 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Or Bull Durham, Field of Dreams, For Love of the Game, or the Bodyguard.
by howtheyscored on Sep 19, 2007 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm . . .
Would you deal Jonathan Sanchez in a package to Pittsburgh for Adam LaRoche and Jose Bautista?
by Anticon23 on Sep 18, 2007 12:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Hmmm . . .
by GiantFan on Sep 18, 2007 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In regards to Ortmeier,
I swear someone quoted him off KNBR or something.
by Anticon23 on Sep 18, 2007 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: In regards to Ortmeier,
I've noticed Brian doesn't do a very good job of actually saying the words that he means. I tend to have to do some work with context and tone just to see what the guy is actually getting at.
by howtheyscored on Sep 18, 2007 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: In regards to Ortmeier,
by sharksrog on Sep 18, 2007 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Lowell?
MIKE LOWELL?!?!??!?!#!?!@#?#
Uh. no.
by zenbitz on Sep 19, 2007 9:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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