Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

by Skaldheim on Aug 9, 2007 9:08 AM PDT Comment 72 comments

http://www.mercurynews.com/giantsheadlines/ci_6580198?nclick_check=1

Excerpt:

"This is my livelihood and my life," he said. "This is my passion, other than my family. I don't take vacations. I don't play golf. I do this 24/7 and I'm able to do it in a setting that I love.

"And I'm really taking it personally and embarrassed that we're not better than this. And I've got nobody to blame but ourselves and myself specifically.

"I take it very personally. I've let the whole organization down."

This is why I have no problem rooting for this guy and wanting him in charge. The key to life is not being afraid to admit when you need to change what you're doing.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

My passion is to be the GM of the Giants - is that a good enough reason to give me the job? I sympathize with the guy, but he's simply been awful at what he does in the last 3-4 years.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 9, 2007 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Tough crowd.

by KCE on Aug 9, 2007 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

As Sabean said in the article, he understands why people want his head. In the world I deal with every day, admitting weakness, failure or a lack of knowledge is like opening your throat to the wolves. However, competence is defined as "knowing what you don't know." I'd much rather be led by someone who possesses this kind of self awareness, because he's much more likely to right the ship than your average executive blowhard.

He's got a rough road ahead of him, and I think I speak for all of us when I wish him the best of luck.

by Skaldheim on Aug 9, 2007 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also like his sense of perspective

In my business, whenever I have a bad day/week/month, I always try to remember that the pendulum will swing back the other way. It's how the world works. Lows are followed by highs, are followed by lows. Surfing on a moderate high for a long time is rare and to be treasured. We had that for a while. It was nice. Now the pendulum has swung back. It should be a temporary condition. As long as Sabes is sincere and at least somewhat competent (the Morris trade demonstrated that he can pull off a fast one now and then- and I'm really looking forward to the PTBNL), we run no risk of becoming the Pirates.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 9, 2007 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I notice that he waited under AFTER the extension to be so open and honest.

Randy Messenger says,"good thing we're short on pitching, or I might be on my way to Fresno!"

by rxmeister on Aug 9, 2007 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I don't think so - fundamentally, isn't competence the barometer we should be held to? I don't want the Giants to keep Sabean in place because he's a "nice guy who works hard" - that is the kind of counter-productivity that could turn is into Pittsburgh-West.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 9, 2007 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Concur. Sabean's problem isn't humility. (Actually, anybody who has heard him on Sportphone, let's be honest -- part of it probably is.) The real problem is that he knows less about baseball than the average guy in a Keith Law chat.

Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Aug 9, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

That's why he won from 1997 to 2004, he knew less about baseball than the average guy in a Keith Law chat.

"I'm a Giant now" and "I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Aug 9, 2007 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

..or because he knew less than a guy in a Keith Law chat AND HAD BARRY BONDS on his team.

Just a conjecture.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 9, 2007 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wan't Bonds on the 1995 and 1996 teams?

by wilriv21 on Aug 9, 2007 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Many teams are smarter now, wouldn't you agree? Sabean isn't. The last four years have been an absolute, unmitigated disaster.

I mean, the argument has gone on forever, so we don't have to go over whether Sabean's early years excuse his later years, but that's my premise and I'm sticking with it.

Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Aug 10, 2007 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I'm glad he's saying this, but he is going to actually have to prove that he means this through his actions the rest of the month and in the offseason before I start supporting him again.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 9, 2007 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Aug 9, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Tim Lincecum will win 1 Cy Young and 11 Tim Lincecums.

by rod beck on Aug 11, 2007 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Agreed.

by positiveuphemism on Aug 9, 2007 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice article

Kind of inspiring, almost.

Your link took me to a login page, but I was able to access the full article when I clicked through the site starting at the home page.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 9, 2007 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice article

I think if you change that "1" in the "nclick_check=1" at the end of the URL to a "0" (zero), it won't ask you to log in.

by sfgfan on Aug 9, 2007 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice article

Sorry about that! Newspaper sites make life difficult for us linkers sometimes. If I could edit the diary, I'd fix the link.

by Skaldheim on Aug 9, 2007 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice article

just copy and paste the link into http://www.bugmenot.com/ and they'll take care of the rest for you.

by awesomer on Aug 9, 2007 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I have to take off my hat and hand it to him for admitting he F'ed up and admitting the F'ing up hurts him. I'm still not too pleased with the result of his F'ups. I guess I can give him a break for a little while.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 9, 2007 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Guess his resume wasn't a hit around the league.

My Blog

by otis29 on Aug 9, 2007 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

There's just a wee bit of self-aggrandizing here being masked as humility -- specifically the stuff about not taking vacations, not playing golf, etc. No one questions Sabean's work ethic, we're just questioning the strategy and obviously we're questioning the results.

Having said that, it is nice to see him publicly 'fess up to management's reluctance to admit rebuilding is necessary, and the consequences of that. The decisions made in the off-season will show whether he can walk the talk.

Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Aug 9, 2007 10:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Guess it depends how you interpret it. I didn't hear it as defending his work ethic. I heard it more as, "This is pretty much my only passion, so I take this more personally and seriously than people might think."

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 9, 2007 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Exactly. It's also explaining why he took the extension here instead of bailing and taking a job with the Yankees or whatever.

by Skaldheim on Aug 9, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If its this bad when he's this passionate

I shudder to think about what it would be like if he half assed his job.

by awesomer on Aug 9, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: If its this bad when he's this passionate

If he half-assed it, maybe he only would have traded 1.5 of the players for A.J. (Joe Nathan amd Bo Bon?)

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 9, 2007 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Security

Sounds like talk from a man with the security after signing his 2yr deal.

by wilriv21 on Aug 9, 2007 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Security

I'm guessing these were the types of things he said to Magowan when they were discussing the extension.

Either that, or "Give me two more years or I tell everyone Zito was your idea!"

Or, "Give two more years or I release these pics of your wife with Glenallen."

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 9, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I agree it was an interesting article, and as Will suggests, it's a lot easier for Sabean to say that stuff with a contract extension safely filed away.

The most disheartening part, and it will come as no surprise to most of the McCoven, is when Kawakami writes:

He didn't mention names, but Ray Durham, Rich Aurilia, Dave Roberts, Omar Vizquel, Mark Sweeney, Pedro Feliz and Ryan Klesko (some with contracts easier to drop than others) were the ones who came to my mind throughout our conversation.

That's roughly the same list that a lot of us would come up with, but once again it's discouraging to consider how many of those contracts were signed in the last year.

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 9, 2007 12:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Interesting piece in today's Sac Bee about the state of the offense and young players. Sabes did give a little update on the waiver process.

"The waiver process is going good. The guys we thought would get claimed have, and those we thought wouldn't haven't. But calls for our guys have not been as heavy as I thought, but we're only at the eighth of August."

Shocking to see other teams aren't interested in our guys. I wonder which players were claimed? Kline and some other bullpen arms?

http://www.sacbee.com/ and go to the sports section.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Still walking a batter per inning in AAA.

by sfgreg on Aug 9, 2007 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, what a surprise

Who wouldn't want to take on an extra year of Ray Durham or two years of Dave Roberts.

by awesomer on Aug 9, 2007 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OH NO!

If noone claims Roberts, how is Sabean going to sign Andruw Jones to a 21 year 11 billion dollar contract?

Sabean has shown zero ability to adapt to a changing market landscape. He still runs the Giants like it is 1997 rather than 2007. Whether or nor you agree with advanced statistics, you have to admit that they represent the cutting edge of modern baseball analysis and have changed the way GM's evaluate players. For a person to succeed in any field without using modern tools he has to be very good at his job (Schierholtz, Williams and some others). I think we all agree that Sabean is clearly not exceptional. Yet, he still insists on bringing his knife to the gunfight.

Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Aug 9, 2007 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: OH NO!

yes, yes, and yes.

by MikeyJ on Aug 10, 2007 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Kenshin, I agree with your conclusion but not for the same reason. The baseball landscape has indeed changed since 1997, and I agree that so far Brian has not indicated in ANY way that he realizes this. Specifically, young prospects are now much more valuable than they used to be because of the economic pressures on team budgets. Conversely, older veterans with expensive contracts, despite whatever production they bring with them, are now comparatively less valuable than they used to be, for the same reasons.

Given that, the draft is even more important than ever (and it always was important, even when the Giants didn't grasp that). You have to have a balanced approach to scouting and drafting, and you cannot rely on trading your excess pitching for hitting; it's prohibitively expensive to trade for the kind of hitters you need, both in terms of the assets you give up and the contract you acquire.

Moreover, the "kind of hitters you need" includes POWER HITTERS, BRIAN! You need all kinds: speedy, high average, and power (and always best when combined in one person, a la Willie Mays).

Until Sabean recants his "speed is the new power" party line, I remain skeptical of him as GM.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 9, 2007 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

with everything you said except for the "no trading pitching for hitting" part. Teams acquire valuable bats all the time in trades and pitching is not inherently more valuable than hitting.

Flossing a dead horse

by kenshin1 on Aug 9, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I agree...

I didn't mean to imply that hitting is more valuable than pitching; just that it's more valuable than Sabean seems to think. They are equal, and should be given equal consideration in the drafting process. And I think there are far more pleasant surprises in pitching than there are in hitting. Acquiring the random Matt Herges, Dustin Hermanson, or Tim Worrell can work out for you. Pitching is just so volatile, predictively. Acquiring the random Alex Sanchez, Jalal Leach, or Dustan Mohr (granted, cherry picked examples)...not so much.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 9, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

One of the problems with enticing Power hitters to the Giants is our field - as demonstrated by the Soriano and Carlos Lee rejections. Hence, Sabean's mantra regarding speed - it is a necessary fall back. I doubt we will be able to attract a Power bat for a few years. Perhaps when the young pitching blossoms a Power hitter may be tempted. His philosophy is partly predicated on the realities of Mays Field.

by APGiantsFan on Aug 9, 2007 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I really think if we just had one real RH power hitter, that would show the rest of the league that a RH power hitter can do well at ATT/SBC/PacBell.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 9, 2007 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Think Kent

by wilriv21 on Aug 9, 2007 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Think Kent

I don't want him.

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray Durham is... yeah.

by Natto on Aug 9, 2007 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok

then think Aurilia back in the day

by wilriv21 on Aug 9, 2007 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I don't agree. You say he hasn't recognized the change in the landscape since 1997, yet you see him going from intentionally forfeiting number one picks to hoarding them like gold. He had three number one picks, and three first round wrap around picks in this year's draft. And he could have easily given in to temptation with the slow start this year and offered up the young pitching for a Jermaine Dye or a Melvin Mora type, which he considered and then thought better of. Maybe you can say he was extremely slow to figure it out, but he finally seems to have done so.

Randy Messenger says,"good thing we're short on pitching, or I might be on my way to Fresno!"

by rxmeister on Aug 9, 2007 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I would counter that by saying that Sabean made two critical mistakes in this year's draft: First, and this is to your point, he way overdrafted Culberson and Williams, and possibly overdrafted Noonan. That is, he could have gotten better players at those picks - but that would have been more expensive. This was his golden opportunity to restock the farm system, and in my view he swung and missed. Second, more generally, he didn't address the glaring immediate need the team has for power hitters. At least one of those top picks should have been a college hitter, preferrably of the corner-infield persuasion. So perhaps Fairley will develop power, but it's so hard to predict HS hitters (with the possible exception of guys like Moustakas, Dominguez, and Vitters).

True, he signed Villalona for big bucks, and finally resisted trading away prospects for a "veteran" last month. Maybe that shows he's learned the first part of the New Order: young cheap prospects are now the coin of the realm. But the second part, where you therefore need to develop your owner pitchers and hitters, not so far.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 10, 2007 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

you're saying that he pinched pennies with regards to his picks, but you don't know that. Sabean easily could have had those players ranked higher than the ones that you think he should have picked. No offense intended, but he certainly has those players better scouted than we do. Only time will tell on the picks he made compared to the picks you think he should have made. And if he were truly drafting according to finances, why the heck did he draft Bumgarner who made it clear before the draft that he was going to ask for huge bucks?? Not only that, but the decision to pinch pennies comes from above, not Sabean. He is given a budget that he has to adhere to, it's not his money that's going to be used to sign players. GM's aren't cheapskates, owners are. And finally, I like the fact that he went high school players over college players, because it shows he truly went for the player he thought was the best, instead of a player that could get up here faster. I think that shows alot of courage for a GM who at the time was a lame duck. He had the long term health of the franchise as a priority over his job security.

Randy Messenger says,"good thing we're short on pitching, or I might be on my way to Fresno!"

by rxmeister on Aug 10, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I would answer by saying that, just as it is my opinion that Sabean went cheap on the draft, it is your opinion that he thought those players were the best ones available at the time. I might be right, or you might be right. I imagine we'll never know for sure if the budget was an issue, nor what he really thought about Culberson and Williams. But we will know for sure if I'm right that these were really bad picks, in about 4-5 years. Mark, I hope we're still conversing then; I really hope to be able to say "told you so." :^)

Why did he draft Bumgarner? Maybe he's in love with pitchers. Maybe Madison is the name of his boyhood dog. Maybe the Bumgarners have incriminating of photos of Sabean and farm animals. Who knows? In my opinion, Michael Main and Rick Porcello would have been better choices there - if you absolutely have the hots for a HS pitcher. Heck, I like Alderson and Withrow better than Bumgarner. But me, I'd have taken a hitter, preferrably a college one. This might have been a really good draft in 2000 or 2001, or possibly as late as 2002. But not with our current situation. I like drafting toolsy HS kids as much as the next guy (or gal). But there is a time and place for everything, and I don't think this was it.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 10, 2007 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

i dont get it.. if youre hoping that in 4-5 years you can say "i told you so" doesnt that mean your rooting for these players to fail? are you a giants fan? id rather be wrong and the giants be good than be right and the giants suck

by Azmanz on Aug 11, 2007 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

He apparently finds time to shop during the actual games.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2007/08/07/DDT4RBSSC1.DTL

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Aug 9, 2007 4:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

Apropos of nothing, I'm pleased to see Gene Yang's American Born Chinese get some props. It's a required text for my Asian American Lit class this fall. I thought everything was coming up Millhouse for me, getting a lit class that counts for transfer credit and requires me to read a graphic novel. The only bummer left is starting the semester next Thursday.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 10, 2007 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

I so want to read that.

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray Durham is... yeah.

by Natto on Aug 10, 2007 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

I might be convinced to lend it to you after I am finished with it.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 10, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

Natto and Baron,
Sharing books in a tree,
R-e-a-d-i-n-g

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 10, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

I don't use book covers so would this be unprotected?

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 10, 2007 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sabes shopping for mattresses at Costco?

"Hard" and "bound" take on a whole new meaning.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 10, 2007 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

What many of you conveniently forget is that the draft is a very slow way of replenishing your team, particularly when you are a winning team.

People like to bring the Brewers up as a great example: well, if you look at how the draft has supplied their roster, they have gained one player per draft over the last 9 years or so, roughly, plus they are still in need of good starting pitching. And they have been losing for even longer than that and benefited from getting Top 5 and Top 10 picks frequently in those years.

If you are winning consistently, you have about a 11% chance of drafting a good player when you are in the last third of the draft. At best, you have a 1% chance (most probably lower) finding another good player in the other 49 picks. That's 12% a year chance, which means it normally takes you about 8 years on average to find a good player via the draft.

The odds improve a bit if you want to count average players into the mix, but I assume most people aren't looking for average players via the draft.

How good anyone's farm system is is a function of the tough odds it is to find any good player via the draft.

"I'm a Giant now" and "I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Aug 9, 2007 6:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah, we all forgot

Its not as if any of these winning teams this century have good farm systems/have raised any good players recently.

Oakland
Boston
Los Angeles NL
Los Angeles AL
Minnesota
New York (AL)
St. Louis
Atlanta

Also, you fail to mention how the Giants are rarely even in the last third of the draft during Sabean's tenure because he is frequently signing crappy FA and punting the draft picks to other teams.

How good anyone's farm system is is a function of how good their farm system is structured, the coaching at each level, who the GM drafts, and how much ownership is willing to spend on picks, all of which the Giants are really bad at it seems.

by awesomer on Aug 9, 2007 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Oh yeah, we all forgot

I don't see why you give such strong credit to teams like Boston, Yankees, St Lo, all in the context of slamming the Giants. The Giants actually have produced more MLB players than each of those teams. The same is true of the Dodgers. And, while you bring Oakland and Minn into the comparison, those are not good comparisons, as they are forced into different strategies than the Giants, and most other teams, employ. But even those two teams have fewer system, home grown players on their roster than do the Giants. Atlanta, despite their strenght and their built in, back yard advantage, have about the same number as the Giants.

by allfrank on Aug 9, 2007 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants actually have produced more MLB players

Yeah thanks for reading who gives a shit about how many mlb players they produce if the vast majority of them suck.

Yes the Giants have more "homegrown MLB players than these teams". Likewise the Giants are worse this year than all of these teams (a ton worst against all cept STL) and also look worse next year.

by awesomer on Aug 9, 2007 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Oh yeah, we all forgot

Kevin Frandsen, Dan Ortmeier, and Elizier Alfonzo are not the same thing as Derek Jeter, Justin Morneau, and Joe Mauer. It's quality, not quantity. Those teams in question have produced vastly better homegrown players.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Aug 11, 2007 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

These teams are having better seasons not because of the difference in home grown players, but because their FAs and traded for players are having food years, while our are having very poor years. Your conclusion that these other teams are winning because of their farms systems are better than ours is largely false.
And, the vast majority of our developed players don't "suck." Look at some of the turds all of these teams (except the Yankees) have sitting on their benches. St. Lo, for example has 4 home grown pitchers. ERAs: 4.26, 5.66, 5.21, 4.35. Three of those guys probably couldn't make our team.

by allfrank on Aug 9, 2007 11:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Take the Yankees as an example

Jeter, Posada and Mariano obviously are all contributing as usual.

Robinson Cano: age 24, 309-357-503, OPS+ of 129! at 2b, playing very good defense.

Melky Cabrera, age 22, 302-352-447 , OPS+ of 114 at CF, playing average defense.

Wang Chien Ming: ERA+ of 109 in 139 IP.

Of their FAs and traded for players, ARod of course is the MVP. Matsui has been his usual reliably good self: 293-364-528, OPS+ of 137 with mediocre defense.

Giambi and Damon have been disasters, Damon especially, considering this is just the 2nd season of his big contract. Their cast junk yard reclamation projects at 1st have been, junk.

Mussina has been very poor: ERA+ of 92 in 106 IP. For comparison Matt Morris' ERA+ with the Giants was 99. An ERA+ of 92 is about what a 4th starter gives you.

Roger Clemens' ERA+ is 108, decent but a disaapointment, considering not just what they are paying him, not even compared to his Houston numbers, just comparing the numbers he put up in his last Yankees stint.

Even if you ignore old home-grown talent like Jeter et al, Cano, Cabrera and Wang have all contributed immensely to the Yankees this year.

by rfloh on Aug 10, 2007 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

I realize it was probably just a typo, but I like the term "food year". Has a sort of Biblical ring to it...you know, seven fat years and seven lean years...

Uh oh. I just realized, 97-03 were seven fat years...that would mean we're only 4 seasons into the seven lean...

But I digress. Anyway, I hope some of our young prospects get a chance to play next season and they all have food years.

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 10, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Outstanding Sabean Interview at the Merc

Every year's a food year for Mando! Oh I miss him so.

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Aug 10, 2007 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you're right

Except:

Oakland: Travis Buck, Nick Swisher, Joe Blanton, Eric Chavez, Dan Johnson, Huston Street, Santiago Casilla, Bobby Crosby, Kurt Suzuki, Dallas Braden

Atlanta: Jeff Francouer, Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones, Kelly Johnson, Brian McCann, Chuck James, Scott Thorman, Yunel Escobar

Boston: Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon

Minnesota: Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Jason Kubel, Torii Hunter, Michael Cuddyer, Scott Baker, Matt Garza, Kevin Slowey, Pat Neshek, Juan Rincon

Los Angeles (NL): Russel Martin, Chad Billingsley, James Loney, Matt Kemp, Jonathan Broxton, Hong Chi-Kuo

Los Angeles (AL): Mike Napoli, Casey Kotchman, Howie Kendrick, Reggie Willits, John Lackey, Ervin Santana, Jered Weaver, Joe Saunders, Francisco Rodriguez, Scot Shields

New York (AL): Derek Jeter, Melky Cabrera, Chien Ming-Wang, Philip Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Andy Pettite, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, Mariano Rivera

St. Louis: Yadier Molina, Albert Pujols, Chris Duncan, Adam Wainwright, Anthony Reyes, Brad Thompson

San Francisco: Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Noah Lowry, Pedro Feliz, Kevin Frandsen, Brad Hennesey, Kevin Correia, Jonathan Sanchez, Jack Taschner

This list only counts players drafted and raised straight through the system. It doesn't count players like Dan Haren or Johan Santana, 6 year cost controllable players that Sabean never seems to trade for (save the recent Morris trade).

If you don't think the sum of these players each has contributed greatly to the team (especially concerning Minnesota and Atlanta), I don't know what to tell you.

Also, most if not all of these teams still have highly regarded prospects in the system, of which the Giants have none (unless you count Villalona who is still probably 3 years away).

by awesomer on Aug 10, 2007 10:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Yeah, you're right

You miss my point completely. All of these teams, including the Giants, have a number of good, young, home grown players. They are all contributing. I disagree that the other team's homegrown players are superior to ours. The reason we are having a poor season has little to do with the performance of our home grown players, it is because our FAs are all having bad years. So, I am saying your original post, that Sabean's drafted players suck is baseless. And I am further saying our drafted and developed players are at least as good as MOST teams in the league. No, not all teams, some, such as Detroit and Milwaukee have been drafting top 5 picks for 6, 8, 10 years. They ought to have better farm systems

by allfrank on Aug 10, 2007 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOLOL

I'm guessing you know almost nothing about the Tigers Farm System (Cameron Maybin > entire Giants minor league) or the players that they and the Brewers have drafted in those 6,8,10 years who are now playing on their major league roster and contributing to the team.

Also, you entirely missed my point it seems, which is that most of those teams have a ton of talent compared to what the Giants have produced. This also doesn't include plenty of talent these teams have traded away to acquire other talent, not spend $1238123828 wasted dollars in FA where the best players are appearing less and less.

by awesomer on Aug 10, 2007 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs