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If Barry were a Dodger

... Would you be so excited about Hank Aaron's record falling?  Or would you be crying out for an asterisk in the books?

... Would you feel the same way about steroids as you do now?  Or would they be a vestige of those cheating L.A. ways?

... Would you be so upset about the media's coverage of Balco?  Or would you be standing on the rooftops joyously shouting First Amendment proclamations?

I know, I know, you're all going to answer, "Yes, I'd feel exactly the same way I do now."  But think about it.

There are plenty of reasons to like Bonds. (Full disclosure: I don't, but that predates the steroids scandal.)  There's certainly reason even for non-Giants fans to be excited about his accomplishments.

But with the support comes a lot of rationalization:  Barry must be in the right, therefore the media must be on an unfair crusade against him, and steroids must be so overblown as an issue, and fans around the country must be getting tired of Bonds being so crucified.  It's just not that black and white, though.

I'm not trying to call you all out here.  I'm just curious.  Consider this a friendly challenge over a virtual beer, and please be honest.  If Barry had spent his career in Dodger blue, would your conclusions be any different?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I think I would feel roughly the same about the whole steroid issue.  I would, however, absolutely hate Barry if he had been a Dodger instead.
Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Aug 7, 2007 9:05 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
This.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 7, 2007 9:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Good question. I'm not sure how I would feel and it's really hard for me to speculate without ever seeing Bonds in Dodger blue. I just don't know.

I'm pretty simple with Bonds, he's on my team, so I'll root for him. I think most sports fans work this way.

I'd like to think that regardless whatever team Barry was on, I'd be able to see that the media has made him an easy target for public criticism and hate. Sure, he's not the nicest guy in the world, I'm sure but I think he's gotten a bad wrap from the media.

by xanthan on Aug 7, 2007 9:08 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
"I'm pretty simple with Bonds, he's on my team, so I'll root for him. I think most sports fans work this way."

Micheal Vick is certainly putting this theory to the test.

As far as Bonds go, I've enjoyed watching him, but don't feel as much as I'd like to regarding to his accomplishments.  At times, I feel sorry for the piling on he takes, but then Mrs. Goofus reminds me that he's sleeping in the bed he made.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 7, 2007 11:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Micheal Vick is certainly putting this theory to the test.

Yeah and I don't think that really applies to Bonds. If Bonds did anything, he did it to his own body. Of course I would draw the line if Bonds was drop kicking babies from left field while using aerosol spray cans in a manner other than directed on the label!

by xanthan on Aug 7, 2007 11:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I can respect Dodger players. I hate that Saito is a Dodger, for instance. If he was on any other team I'd be one of his biggest fans.

There are plenty of players I hate but I have to respect. Clemens is one of them. He's undoubtedly one of the best pitchers of his generation and probably a Hall of Famer one day. I hate him for reasons that many people hate Bonds for, whether or not they want to admit it. Clemens is an asshole, straight up. I suspect that he did or is using PEDs. I'm not going after him with my flaming pitchfork, nor am I hunting anyone else whom I may suspect used or is using.

It will always bother me that Bonds is singled out, and only in part because I'm a Giants fan. I find it extremely unfair to brand one person as the fall guy for the whole problem when it's clear there are others who are part of the problem as well.

Part of me sort of doesn't care about the PED issue because there's the strong possibility that nearly everyone in the sport is/was using. If everyone in the sport had access to it, is it cheating? Is it cheating if there's no rule prohibiting the use of PEDs?

I strongly object to punishing a player for using PEDs before MLB had concrete rules against it. I know MLBPA is making it very hard to fix the "problem." I don't blame Selig for this one. He really can't do a hell of a lot with this problem. I hate him for other reasons which don't belong in this conversation, other than him displaying an award-winning passive aggressive attitude about the PED issue. That's just a personal dislike of passive aggressive people.

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2007 9:18 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Baron, Baron, Baron....you don't blame Selig?  

You're kidding right?  This is the man that's supposed to be in charge of the sport, correct?  A good commissioner would have sat the MLBPA down and put them to task.  Selig was there when all the drama with the last labor agreement went through, and if he would of shown a backbone and stood up to the union at that time, we wouldn't be wondering more than 10 years later if the sport is clean.  Why did we have to wait for Congress to get involved for Bud to put a policy in place?  

If the MLBPA threatens to walk out, fuck 'um.  They can play ball outside the US if they don't want to subject themselves to some strict testing and regulations.

As Wilbon stated in his article, I wouldn't trust Bud to manage a fantasy league, let alone the MLB.  

Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 7, 2007 9:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Anyone in Selig's position would have to battle the MLBPA on the issue and I don't think they would win. Selig is a limpdicked incompetent, this is certain. There's still not much he can do against players' association.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 7, 2007 10:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I'd realize that steroids wasn't just a Dodger issue, and try and keep some perspective.

I'd also make fun of Bonds just about every...single...day. Photoshops, Photoshops, Photoshops! It'd be fun.

by Grant on Aug 7, 2007 9:23 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I like Barry Bonds. Always have, always will. If he left the Giants, I'd still be a fan.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 7, 2007 9:26 AM PDT   0 recs

Co-sign
Well at least I don't have to watch baseball in Oakland...

by Tajiri on Aug 7, 2007 9:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I didn't like Bonds when he was a Pirate..I don't think it is too far of stretch to say I wouldn't have much to do with him at all were he not on the Giants.  Having said that, I do think he deserves accolades instead of scorn for the record and for his career.

by Sinister Dick on Aug 7, 2007 9:29 AM PDT   0 recs

If 'If's and Buts' Were Candy and Nuts
We'd All Have a Merry Home Run Chase

this is what we'd hear from the media

  • LA Fans are such tools. They have their heads in the sand about the whole steroid issue. They blindly worship Bonds, a known cheater.
  • Frank H. McCourt Jr and the whole Dodger ownership is addicted to Bonds because they think no one would come to the games except to watch Bonds.
  • What did Tommy know and when did he know it?
  • The team is distracted by the Bonds chase
  • Bonds said he got the supplement from Olmaedo Seinz's locker
  • How could Bonds be in the same organization that had Jackie Robinson.
  • "Pedro Gomez from Vero Beach"
  • Jeff Pearlman would write: "The Los Angeles Dodgers, led by Barry "I Am Soooooo Much Better Than You, It's Not Even Funny" Bonds are heading to the World Series, and the St. Louis Cardinals are going home to a cold, tundra-like winter by the Arch. There is no God."
  • Hollywood has always had it's villains
  • The Los Angeles Roidgers
The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2007 10:20 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I think Bonds as a Dodger makes a lot of sense. Dodger fans wouldn't miss a single Bonds moment since they both leave games after the 7th inning.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 7, 2007 11:07 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
LOLz
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Aug 7, 2007 11:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I don't even want to think about that.
Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray Durham is... yeah.

by Natto on Aug 7, 2007 11:10 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
If you really want to try to separate rationality from rationalization, wouldn't a better thought experiment be "what if Barry were a Cleveland Indian, or a Cincinnati Red"? That is, something as close to neutral as possible for Giants fans. Or, what if he had stayed in Pittsburgh for his whole career?

Granted, as fans we are likely to give every benefit of the doubt to Giants players, and no leeway whatsoever to Dodger players. But it isn't only Dodger fans vilifying Bonds; that would be understandable.

In all honesty, I've gotta admit that if Barry was a Dodger, I would absolutely loathe the way he stands and watches his home runs before starting into his trot.

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 7, 2007 11:15 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I often wonder how the media would cover things differently if, say, Barry had played 15 years for the Yankees or Red Sox. Would he be vilified as much? Would his supportive home fans in the Bronx or Fenway be mocked by ESPN and Sports Illustrated as mindless sheep?
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Aug 7, 2007 11:23 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Yes, I'd feel exactly the same way I do now.

by kennv on Aug 7, 2007 11:45 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
I have no idea. I'd like to think that as an intelligent, rational human being, I would still have maintained an intelligent, rational perspective on the whole thing.

On th eother hand, Jeff Kent would probably still be a Giant and I'd be talking about how cool Jeff Kent is, which would seriously bring into question both my intelligence and my rationale.

I guess it's a crap shoot!

I'd certainly hate Barry Bonds. I would sincerely hope that I wouldn't be blinded by the circus lights because he's not on my team, but I don't know if I can guarantee it. 91%. I'll give you 91%.

But only because I'm not a complete tool.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2007 11:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Well, let's see, how do I feel about Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa now?  How did I feel about them in 1998?  I remember distinctly looking at McGwire and Canseco's bodies in the late '80s and thinking they weren't human.  In 1998 I read the story about the andro, and I got a sinking feeling in my stomach.  But nonetheless, I greatly enjoyed watching those two chase each other and Roger Maris.

I have a heavy heavy distrust of the sports media.  If those guys tell me that a Barry Bonds or a Gary Sheffield is a tremendous jackass, I often tend to believe the opposite.  I remember the sports media telling me what a great guy Kirby Puckett was -- oops.  And Steve Garvey, Pete Rose, etc.

So, I don't believe I'm puffing myself up by saying that I'd still like and respect him.  I'd just root for his Dodgers to lose 162 games a year.

Hell, I'm already rooting for A-Rod to beat Barry's record, because that will be a ton of fun to watch!  And I don't even like that bluelipped phony (though he's finally starting to act less calculated this season).

by Skaldheim on Aug 7, 2007 12:06 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
One reason why I love Barry so much as a player is that I've watched him on a pretty much daily basis (save Aug 1995 - June 1997) since 1993. He's done it for my team. You can't invest that much time in a player and not have some strong feelings toward him.

In the Dodger scenario, I'm still a Giant fan and there is probably no Giants player who's been on the team for that long who has done as much to help the Giants win as he has. I'd probably hate Bonds as someone who has helped the Dodgers win more than any other player in history, most all of it at the expense of my team, so there would be a lot of antipathy. But I wouldn't have watched him play everyday.

Bonds is to me like Ripken is to Orioles fans or Gwynn is to Padre fans. Now, I like both those guys but I didn't exactly follow their careers that closely other than through a national media filter or watching them the Giants or A's. I do think that Ripken's consecutive game streak is tainted by the fact that he voluntarily went on strike a couple of times (something I loathe), but that's neither here nor there and I acknowledge his streak as the record.

Finally, you can't separate the anti-Bonds media message that gets transmitted on TV/Radio/Print/Internet every day for the past 20+ years. Really, the anti-Bonds media tagline has been pounded into peoples' heads for so long, it's not surprising that people hate the guy so damn much. And make no mistake, it all stems from the fact that Bonds is ornery, especially to the media, who try to destroy public figures who don't play their game.

I heard Pedro Gomez on the KNBR this morning talking to the morning douchebags. He basically said that it isn't the media's fault that Bonds has the personality he does. That may be true to a point, but it fails to take into account that Bonds's view of the media was formed very early in his life by his father's experience with the media, who were very tough on him for not being the next Willie Mays, an expectation that they themselves created.

That also doesn't take into account that the media has taken a very adversarial role in modern times. They can be very vindictive if they don't get cooperation from the players. Bonds doesn't cooperate when he doesn't want to and has pissed off a lot of reporters who in turn bash Barry, which in turn makes him less media-friendly and the cycle begets itself. Bonds's personality is very much formed by his relationship to the media.

The bottom line is that watching Bonds play everyday and rooting for him for such a long time makes me somewhat immune to the anti-Barry media marketing campaign. I hear it, but I don't change my opinions on it and am very skeptical of it, because what they often describe isn't what I've seen, which is a bunch of homers and wins.

If Barry were a Dodger all these years, I wouldn't have that immunity and probably would hate his guts. It's all speculation, of course, but if that were the case I can only hope that I'd still appreciate what he's accomplished in this game for what it is: something special.

The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2007 12:52 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
"I do think that Ripken's consecutive game streak is tainted by the fact that he voluntarily went on strike a couple of times..."

Piss right the fuck off!  I'm Cal's #1 fan and to hear someone say this is just blasphemous.  What was he supposed to do, cross the line and continue playing in some unofficial games against a bunch of scabs?

How about you work 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year (I'm giving you weekends and two weeks/year off) and do that for a little more than 10 1/2 years without calling in sick even once?  They don't build them like that anymore, and who knows if they ever will.

Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 7, 2007 1:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
My son is named after Cal Ripken, but dude, relax.  Aren't people here allowed to opinions without being cussed out?
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 7, 2007 1:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
So your son isn't named Goofus Jr.?

Weird.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2007 1:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Fuck no.  :P
Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 7, 2007 1:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
If my bosses paid me millions of dollars to do something I love, I'm pretty sure I could arrange that.

OR how about I play a fucking kid's game 6-7 days a week for 6 months and take the other six months off, all the while getting paid millions of dollars for it.

And don't get your panties in a bunch. I'm not some anti-Cal Ripken crusader. I'm not saying he doesn't have the record, I clearly acknowledge that he does and I'm not saying he shouldn't, but he could have stood up and said that the union should "piss right the fuck off" and they should keep playing instead of going on strike because their millions of dollars weren't enough. Gehrig never went on strike.

But it's not like they played games without him, so you can't say he doesn't have the record. My point is that there were games on calendar that he and every other player (including Bonds) CHOSE not to play so they could get paid more money, which I didn't agree with then and I don't agree with now and don't think I'd ever agree with. A lot of players have publicly said that going on strike was a mistake. I mean they canceled the fucking World Series! And I wasn't ripping on his character, just saying he made a choice that I'll always remember, even if I'm  a small minority or it isn't such a big deal now, because it was a big deal to me at the time. He didn't cross the picket line when the owners decided to use replacement players, though he could have.

But then again, you're making my point. You're Cal's #1 fan. I'm Bonds's #1 fan and I don't take too kindly to people ripping on him or saying his record is "tainted" though I don't tell people to "piss right the fuck off" in bold when they do, which is rather rude, but I won't hold it against you.

The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2007 1:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Oh that's right, it's time for the "kids game" argument.  I was waiting for this one to pop up...so much so that I almost fired off a preemptive salvo knowing that you'd bring it up.  So once the season was over, he went straight to the burger bar and did nothing until the first game of the following season?

How is it HE made the choice though...I'm a little amused by this line of thought.  He was represented by a union, the union took their stance, and the commish canceled the games and your beloved series.  Sometimes when you're in a union, they make a decision that doesn't sit well with everyone that they're supposed to be protecting.  You know what happens then....you either cross the line (again, not possible because of the canceled games), or you deal with it.  Players can say all day long that it was a mistake, but to hold any individual players responsible for going on strike is wrong in every way.  He didn't make that choice, the union made it for him...that's what unions do in a dispute!

Not exactly sure how I'm "making your point" as I've said nothing about Bonds.  I have issue with the way you slandered Cal's record, and that is all.  I'm sure you're a swell guy, but if my "rude" language caught you off guard, well sorry, but that's the kind of language in my repertoire and if you've got an issue with it...ignore it and go about your day.    

Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 7, 2007 4:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
how is the "kid's game" argument any different from your fallacious hypothetical about my job. How is whether I work every damn day or not relevant to what Cal did unless we're in the same profession. But I digress.

I'm not blaming Cal for the entire decision to strike. However, Cal was in the union and the union voted. It's not like the Union is the Wizard behind the curtain telling players what to do. They voted to strike. There is some personal culpability in that. I don't know how he voted and for all I know he voted against striking, but those records are public and I don't believe he ever made his vote public. If he did, I would very likely change my view. Until then, however, I will only assume that he agreed with the vote, as I do with every player unless he comes out and publicly declared how he voted.

However, I understand what you're saying to be that Cal himself didn't cause the strike and didn't lead the union, and that the Union voted and he went along with the decision, even if he was personally against the decision, because of solidarity or whatever. Also, I don't recall him being vocal during that period. I don't believe he was the Orioles' union rep. In fact, I recall specifically that he wasn't vocal, at least not vocal enough for me in the Bay Area to hear it.

Lastly, I wrote that you were making my point because (a) my post wasn't about Cal Ripken, it was about Bonds and you focused on the Ripken line and it obviously touched a nerve; and (b) my point was that when people write all that shit about Bonds it touches a nerve with me and I get all worked up over it because I know its a bunch of bullshit, kinda like the way you did when I wrote that about Ripken. If you weren't a Ripken fan you probably would have ignored it or just though I'm an idiot or something. Like if Bonds were on the Dodgers, I wouldn't care that much about what people write about him because I probably wouldn't like him that much because I wasn't previously a huge fan. I probably shouldn't have mentioned Cal because it wasn't that great an example of what I was trying to show, so lesson learned.

That was my point. You may disagree and you're probably a swell person as well, so I'll just leave it at that.

The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 7, 2007 5:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Dude.  Overreact much?

by Skaldheim on Aug 7, 2007 2:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: If Barry were a Dodger
Any fan with Giants DNA would hate the guy and boo him every at bat. I have been to games both in LA and SF. The hate that emanates from SF towards the Dodgers far far exceeds the hate that emanates from LA towards Giants. The T-shirts Giant fans wear, "F#ck the Dodgers", probably would be modified towards hate to Bonds.

by wilriv21 on Aug 7, 2007 3:07 PM PDT   0 recs

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