Further proof that neither this org nor sabean have changed philosophy

by bacci40 on Aug 6, 2007 8:04 PM PDT

As a result of a lack of days off, extra inning games and the injury to noah, the org saw the need to bring up a 13th pitcher.

Did the dfa or place one of the vets on waivers?

Did they make a waiver trade??

No to both.

They sent Lewis back to Fresno.

This, a day after he goes 2 for 3.

This after the org leaks intel that they will be going with the kids most of the rest of the season.

How many times will we allow these guys to lie to us before we stage an armed insurection?

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Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

Oh come on.

The team has too many outfielders as it is, and sending Lewis down gives two players more regular playing time: Lewis and Rajai Davis.

Meanwhile, the Giants are in a stretch of 31 games in 30 days (and that's not bringing up a cross-country flight, a double-header and another three hour flight in a 36 hour period in a week), just had to go through back-to-back extra-inning games followed by a game in which the starter got injured and went just three innings, and another starter had to be used in relief, likely shortening his next outing tomorrow.

Oh yea, and said starter will probably miss his next start.

If you were arguing they should've brought up Wilson, then I'd buy it. But frankly, this team needs a 13th pitcher more than it needs Fred Lewis or Rajai Davis spending copious amounts of time on the bench.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Aug 6, 2007 9:16 PM PDT reply actions

Rajai

Did Jason Ellison change his name to Rajai Davis? 'Cause dang! I could have sworn that was Jason out there the last couple of games.

by DrBGiantsfan on Aug 6, 2007 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Rajai

If he had, Jason must have been taking something up in Washington. Davis is a lot bigger (in bulk) than I remember Jason being.

by sfgfan on Aug 7, 2007 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

I'd just like to add that the decision for Davis over Lewis, even though we (and maybe the org) like Lewis more, likely has a lot to do with Davis's positive platoon with Roberts, whereas I believe Roberts and Lewis had similar splits and don't platoon well.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 6, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

Also: We've seen enough of Lewis: There's potential.

Time to watch Davis in MLB for a spell.

by Moggeee on Aug 6, 2007 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

no....you dump roberts

sabean gets away with this shite, thanks to your lackadasical attitude

do you honestly believe that freddie was jumping for joy that he would get to play everyday in fresno???

especially after he has proven his worth in the bigs?

and davis can only hit against lefties

as the majority of pitchers in the mlb are righties....that makes him a bigger joke than sabean

by bacci40 on Aug 7, 2007 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

Dump Roberts? How does that (particularly the eating the salary) help us in the short run or the long run? You're just being impatient and unreasonable; no problem with that as a fan, of course, but the people making the decisions can't afford to be impatient and unreasonable.

Adopting Dave Roberts since 2007

by hometownboy on Aug 7, 2007 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

lol, nice defense, DAD!

Although I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 7, 2007 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Wilson

Wilson has had much better control lately. Had another save tonight, against a team as old as ours, the Mets AAA team. Fernando Tatis, Rickey Ledee and Sandy Alomar Jr. in their starting lineup!!

Randy Messenger says,"good thing we're short on pitching, or I might be on my way to Fresno!"

by rxmeister on Aug 6, 2007 9:44 PM PDT reply actions

A Few Trusted Sourc es

I will wait until Andy from Fresno verifies this report before I put any credence in it.

by Moggeee on Aug 6, 2007 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

As unhappy as we are with the veteran players, you want to DFA them? Really? Even Ray Durham isn't Shea Hillenbrand. Give Sabean time to make a waiver deal, or just wait for the offseason. Besides, in September all the kids will be up.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 6, 2007 11:12 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

Ray Durham 2007: .233/.302/.371
Shea Hillenbrand 2006: .277/.313/.451

I realize their positions make a difference. But the real point is that Durham has been unfathomably bad.

The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Aug 7, 2007 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

Shea Hillenbrand with the Giants 2006: .248/.275/.415

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Aug 7, 2007 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

But I do totally agree that Durham sucks this year.

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Aug 7, 2007 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

I was thinking more along the lines of Shea Hillenbrand 2007 with the Angels: .254/.275/.325 - mainly as a DH! That is about as bad as it gets.

Durham has undoubtedly been horrible, especially in the second half. But I can see why the team is playing him. In the first half, he hit .252/.321/.404, not all that bad for a second baseman, and he had a BABIP of .266. With the same performance, but a BABIP closer to .300, Ray-Ray would be a perfectly good second baseman.

Unfortunately, he has imploded in the second half. Just awful. He can't even make good contact. The team has to think "no way is Ray Durham this bad," and I think they are right. But they will have to sit him. He is losing value by the AB right now. Sit him, put him on the DL, something. If they claim that he has a quad problem or something (and who knows? maybe he does) then they can give him a rehab stint and maybe proclaim him healthy when he comes back and hits. That is about the most we can hope for. The team may have to pick up half the tab, but if he shows that he isn't done, some team may want him in the offseason for a second-tier prospect - especially if injury can be blamed for his woes this year.

Dave Roberts? He was injured and needed surgery. In the second half (yeah, small sample, but so is the first half compared to his career), Dave is hitting .333/.389/.402. There's a reason why his first-half stats were so bad. He was injured. He needed surgery. Coming back from surgery was tough. Anyone who has had knee or elbow surgery knows how hard it is to get back to normal. Dave will be fine. He needs a platoon partner, which is why Rajai Davis is still up and Lewis is in Fresno. Lewis couldn't hit LHP in the minors and he hasn't in the majors either.

So, a question: given that guys aren't simply going to be DFAed, whom would you rather see traded? Roberts and/or Winn or Schierholtz and/or Lewis? Roberts and Winn (and Durham) have the contracts, so if you trade them, you get the money to sign someone from the atrocious offseason FA class (maybe). Do you play the old guys to showcase a trade? Or do you play Lewis and Schierholtz to showcase them, as they are cheap and under the org's control? At least the young guys might be part of a package, with young pitching, that could bring back an actual star slugger. The old guys most likely won't be part of that package. Or do you want to go into 2008 with Lewis and Schierholtz as your power-hitting OFers? That may work if the team can get a star slugger at 1B or 3B. If.

It really depends on how much you want the team to suck next year. Really, really bad, as in no Bonds, an OF of Lewis, Schierholtz, and [one of Winn/Roberts/Davis/Bowker/Ortmeier/Timpner, etc]? I don't want an OF of the geriatric versions of Bonds, Moises Alou, and Ken Griffey Jr, but I don't think the team will be anything but teh suck with Schierholtz, Lewis, and Ortmeier out there.

Your thoughts?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 7, 2007 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

I was thinking about this too. I don't particularly care which of Roberts and Winn is around, but I presume that Winn has more trade value, as he's younger and healthier and not so one-dimensional. So if Winn and Bonds are gone, I'd use Lewis, Roberts, and Schierholtz as the starters, with plenty of at-bats for Davis and Ortmeier, especially against lefties.

This will be a pretty terrible outfield, I suppose, but all these young guys have a certain amount of potential (and there are more coming up behind them), so we should see what they can do. In the infield, on the other hand, we have no one but Frandsen with any potential. In other words, the inevitable grizzled veterans that Sabean acquires should be infielders rather than outfielders, so they won't be blocking anyone.

by Evan on Aug 7, 2007 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org

Well said. I'd like to see a Lewis-Davis platoon next year, and we might as well give Schierholtz a shot -- unless Sabean signs a hard-hitting outfielder, in which case Nate should be traded.

by Dan from NM on Aug 8, 2007 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Further proof that neither this org nor sabean

It's only August 7; the waiver-trade month is barely underway. By now everyone should have either just cleared waivers or been blocked. The real bargaining for trades is now underway.

Two weeks hence, it should be very clear whether or not there's any interest in the overpaid vets for a playoff push. At that point, I could see making this argument, but even then, the September roster expansion would only be a few days off. I'd rather hold onto to the trading chips a little longer. Spring is the time to toss the deadweight overboard, when you know there's absolutely nothing to get back for them.

by Skaldheim on Aug 7, 2007 8:17 AM PDT reply actions

neither this org nor sabean...

I understand keeping Davis over Lewis. We clearly have too many LHH OF's. And more to come, thanks to our wise draft philosophy. :(

To answer Northside's OF question: I don't know. It all depends on what we can acquire for the INF. If we don't get a power-hitting 1B or 3B, then we're going to suck anyway so why not go with Schierholtz, Lewis/Davis, & Winn in the OF? (I'm hoping Roberts' resurgence has attracted the attention of other GM's; and I'd sorta like to keep Winn-that's just me). Ortmeier can backup; Leone can be super-sub. Heck, let McClain play some 1B if we need a righty; at least he's got some AAA power.

If we sign ARod, all bets are off. IF we did that: I'd resign Omar for another year at SS, give 2B to Frandsen (do the Pirates know we have Durham available?), scrape the barrel for 1B (take a flyer on a blocked AAA guy somewhere?), and play our young guys in the OF.

A lot of "ifs;" our future is certainly murky.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 7, 2007 9:16 AM PDT reply actions

Re: neither this org nor sabean...

I agree, especially the part about keeping Winn. I'm now convinced that he's once again productive. If last year can be attributed to the knee issues, the begining of this season could have been getting his groove back.

He wouldn't be "untouchable", but he shouldn't be traded just get rid of his contract.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 7, 2007 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions