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Houston, We have a Problem

In the what could have happened here department:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2993335&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

Dumping the GM makes some sense (a head had to roll for the Carlos Lee signing), but is it really either of their faults that Brad Lidge became Mitch Williams? Or that Morgan Ensberg became Pedro Feliz without the power, or that Pettite decided he'd rather pitch with his friend Roger than in his hometown?

I do like that Cecil Cooper is getting a chance to manage (he's one of those players I always liked for no good reason). It makes me wonder if George Foster is coaching somewhere.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Phil Garner is a pretty bad manager. A lot of Astros fans would say that Garner made Ensberg his whipping boy for taking too many pitches and not being aggressive.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 27, 2007 2:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
it makes sense.  terrible drafting strategy.  trading Jason Hirsh, Willy taveras and some other kid for Jason Jennings was not the smartest move of the century.  

he's an awful GM.

Garner? who gives a shit. a manager is a manager is a manager.  if you have crappy players you're gonna lose.

Pedro Feliz: He kinda hits home runs?

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Aug 27, 2007 2:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Turns out George "traded from SF to CIN for Frank Duffy and Vern Geishert" Foster isn't coaching on a consistent basis, but is conducting some baseball camps among other things:

"Foster, a member of the Reds from 1971-1981 and a 5-time All-Star, conducts the camps across the country. He is also a motivational speaker and works with several national agencies and is the current commissioner for the Reds Rookie Success League." (from the Journal-Times, Grayson KY)

Once you dropped his name I was curious. He had the oddest career arc, a la Dale Murphy and Will Clark, where for several years he seemed a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame, and then just fell of the face of the baseball earth.

My son (Kevin Correia) is an honors student at Righetti Prep

by VidaWantsYourCar on Aug 27, 2007 2:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
The Jennings trade was certainly a terrible one that blew up is his face. One year of injured/awful pitching for three young, talented players was a bad deal, that ended up worse!

by GiantFan on Aug 27, 2007 2:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
I think Garner's firing makes sense and is well overdue.  I see a little support for him over at Crawfish Boxes, but I dunno ...

Is it Garner's fault that he had to deal with so many partially-baked players, like Ensberg, Eric Bruntlett, Chris Burke?  Technically, no.  But I'm not sure any of these players got the kind of development they needed from Garner.  His tendancy to banish slumping players to the bench couldn't have helped, either; I'm thinking mainly of Ensberg here.

From the outside, there's no way to be sure how much is Garner's fault and how much was the players' inherent suckiness.  But my (admittedly superficial) position is: Players don't tend to improve under Garner.  They aren't given a chance to complete themselves.  They end up mired in that quadruple-A caliber setting.

As for Brad Lidge, I do believe his problems are entirely his own, and I feel bad for him.  But if you go with my hypothesis here, having Garner as a boss didn't help any.

by wedge on Aug 27, 2007 2:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
There is a Brewers fan over on BBTF (Garner used to manage the Brewers), who contends that Garner is a good manager to take a veteran team to the next level because he's really positive about veterans and can give a team a short-term boost, but in the long run, he's a really poor evaluator of talent and he plays favorites, etc etc, which makes him not so great a manager in general.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 27, 2007 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Aha, Harvey. ;)
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 27, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
I'm a lurker there, but I've read his Garner (and Yost) rants so many times, I've come to accept his views on those situations as fact. :)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 27, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Hey, works for me!  (btw, I'm not that guy posting in disguise or anything)

by wedge on Aug 27, 2007 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Harvey rules.  He is at least 75 years old and is a farmer in Wisconsin.  I love the guy.

Harvey's jokes in the thread at BTF are hilarious, by the way.  Check it out if you haven't.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Aug 27, 2007 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Mired in quadruple-A?  Why, I think we might have our next manager!  Our minor leaguers ALWAYS end up mired in quadruple-A!  It's a perfect fit!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Norm MacDonald

by JRPhillips on Aug 27, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
One thing I didn't realize is that Purpura wasn't the GM during their World Series appearance. It was Gerry Hunsicker. I completely forgot he resigned.

The firing makes a lot more sense to me now.

Do they know to win the game a team has to actually score at least once?

by noahthek on Aug 27, 2007 2:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Wait, Hunsicker left after 2004, when they lost the NLCS to the Cardinals. It was 2005 when they went to the Serious. I don't think there were any substantial roster upgrades in 2005, though, unless you count losing Kent in free agency to be an upgrade, so Purpura couldn't take much credit for shaping the 2005 team.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father, currently sandbagging in Augusta.

by EliminateMe on Aug 27, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Although he had been Player Personnel Director since the mid 90s hadn't he? So he had some input.

by Roger on Aug 27, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Ah, you're right:
From Oct 24, 1997 until being named general manager, Tim directed the operation of the club's player development system and six minor league affiliates. He also assisted with all aspects of Major League operations, including player trades and free-agent acquisitions, contract negotiations and coordination of Major League scouting efforts.

From his no doubt soon to vanish bio page on the Astros' site.

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father, currently sandbagging in Augusta.

by EliminateMe on Aug 27, 2007 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
face facts

there is only one org in all the mlb that rewards failure and mediocrity

and you are all fans of self same org

rejoice

by bacci40 on Aug 27, 2007 4:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
No. There is another.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father, currently sandbagging in Augusta.

by EliminateMe on Aug 27, 2007 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
And another.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 27, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
Good point.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father, currently sandbagging in Augusta.

by EliminateMe on Aug 27, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
All true, still the contrast with Houston is stark.  Like us, they have one of the five or six best records over the last dozen years, have been to the playoffs a handful of times and the Series once, have been getting older lately, have a woeful offense and no hope on the horizon from the minor league system (and Houston, who's draft this year was a comically abysmal as our '05 almost certainly has the worst minor league system in the majors right now), but instead of reupping everybody for a few more years, they hacked the old head off the top of the club and will seek some new visions to guide them into their uncertain future.

by Roger on Aug 28, 2007 4:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh heh
Although the Pirates are currently nine games behind in the NL Central standings, their strong showing in August has several players believing that they can make an improbable run at a division title and the franchise's first winning season since 1992.
Barry Bombs gear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Aug 27, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hallucinogens in the Allegheny?
At 57-72 they're a game behind even the Giants. That translates to a 24-9 record the rest of the season just to finish an even .500. And they don't have any more games against the Giants. Good luck with that...
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father, currently sandbagging in Augusta.

by EliminateMe on Aug 27, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Heh heh
reminds me of the way a certain franchise kept talking the last few years...
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 27, 2007 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
The Farce is strong with that one.
The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Aug 27, 2007 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
And a sister and a brother.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Aug 28, 2007 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
pirates dont count....they are barely an org

they and the owners of the royals have discovered that they can make more caishe keeping pathetic, low attendence teams, then by harvesting a winner....thanks to huge loopholes in the mlb profit sharing clause

dont understand the rangers at all

maybe bush is still running that team from behind the curtain

by bacci40 on Aug 28, 2007 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Houston, We have a Problem
The real tragedy with all this is that we weren't able to fleece them in some wild trade before Tim Purpura got fired.

Strike down one more GM who might have been susceptible to Sabean's jedi mind tricks.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him.

by howtheyscored on Aug 27, 2007 6:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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