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Open Ray Durham Venting Forum

Tiny by joebirdie3 on

I have been saying this since the All-Star Break that Ray Durham has been the worst player for the Giants this year and yet he keeps coming up in crucial situations with the game on the line. Here is a sampling of the huge pile of suck that is Ray-Ray's batting splits coming into today's game:

Overall:       401 AB .224/.303/.359 60 RBI    
Post All-Star: 119 AB .160/.261/.252 14 RBI
Runners on:    211 AB .246/.320/.403 57 RBI
RISP:          127 AB .213/.297/.346 48 RBI

There are 76 players with 400 plate appearances in the league and Ray ranks 74th with a total of 42.7 runs created (only Omar and Marcus Giles are worse). A team full of Ray Durhams would score 3.41 runs per game. Randy Winn ranks 38th in that category with 68.4 runs created and a team of Winns would score 5.29 RPG.

The Giants currently average just over 4 runs per game. If we had a lineup full of Randy Winns and could score an extra run per game, those 17 extra inning games we have played would all be victories, and the 12 9-inning 1-run losses we have would all go to extra innings, so you figure we'd get at least 5 wins out of that as well. That makes 16 additional victories this season, which coincidently would give us the exact same record as the D'Backs in first place.

I vote to DFA Ray immediately. I'd rather see Frandsen play every day and bat 7th or 8th, so his suckitude wouldn't hurt the team in key situations as much. I want to see Ortmeier at 1B every time we face a lefty and for Rajai to play every day in CF and have Roberts spell Bonds on his days off.

Let the hate flow!

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
He's really horrible and I've been trying to support him all year but I'm done.

He needs to be benched for the rest of the year.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 21, 2007 10:42 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I was just about to post a poll to see how many people think Ray Durham's career is finished but that would be the most one-sided vote in the history of democracy.  He HAS to be gone by Aug. 31.  Not only has his hitting declined everday since the season began, but so has his defense.  He has always seemed like a slacker to me and as much as I didn't beleive his year last year was him playing for a new contract, now I beleive it.  He's a FUCKING LOSER.

The options are: 1) trade (yeah right, like anybody would even take him for free right now)

  1. Eat his contract and DFA (my choice)
  2. Bench him (I don't want to look at him anymore.  It just makes me angry.)
Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Aug 21, 2007 10:48 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I agree that he's basically done and needs to be gone, but Ray Durham has never struck me as a slacker or as anything but a class act.  I feel no anger, only pity for him.

all my anger was spent on management anyway

WE FIGHT WARS! WE CHEAT ON OUR SPOUSES! WE LISTEN! TO THE STEVE MILLER BAND! BUT IF;! WE THROW OURSELVES INTO SOMETHING AS GLORIOUS AS BASEBALL ALL IS FORGIVEN!

by nick on Aug 21, 2007 11:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Lotsa deserving targets for ire
Anger Management Coach:

Listen, kid, we gotta beef up your anger, so you've got more to spread around, and maybe go deeper into games with it.

by Moggeee on Aug 21, 2007 11:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I know they won't DFA him because he's due 8 million bucks next year, but benching him for the rest of the season is completely the right move. They should be playing Kevin Frandsen, but if you really love the veterans so much, Bochy, Aurilia is swinging the bat much better than Ray is right now. I often think that Bochy is afraid to offend veteran players, no matter how bad they are. No wonder they all love him.
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 21, 2007 10:49 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
The amazing thing is that he's on pace to play in more games this year than he has in a single season since 2001.

How is that fucking possible?

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 21, 2007 10:54 PM PDT   0 recs

I HAVE NO SON
Barry Bombs gear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Aug 21, 2007 11:10 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: I HAVE NO SON
And your son hefs no future.

by Moggeee on Aug 21, 2007 11:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I HAVE NO SON
I LOVE MY DEAD GAY SON
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 22, 2007 9:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I HAVE NO SON
this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Aug 22, 2007 10:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I HAVE NO SON
that meant to say, "Emmanuel Burriss is dead and gay???"
this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Aug 22, 2007 10:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Don't play Durham, Bochy.
Steve Kline: Lately, significantly less okay

by groug on Aug 21, 2007 11:18 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Everybody plays the fool.
Barry Bombs gear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Aug 21, 2007 11:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
The exception to this Rule

happens when the Fool

is on the DL, and in a Whirlpool

by Moggeee on Aug 21, 2007 11:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Nice The Main Ingredient/Aaron Neville reference.

by Jakespaar on Aug 22, 2007 10:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Yeah, he's missed decent portions of all of the seasons he's been here.  And he chooses this one to not get injured in?  

But, seriously, any game that Ray Durham starts in the rest of this season is at least a partial waste.

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 21, 2007 11:29 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Ray's continuing slump is very hard to understand and impossible to support.  But, he is not showing signs of losing the tools needed to be a sucessful hitter.  His strike out rate and walk rates remain at his career norms.  

To be frank, it is just flat out stupid to suggest he be DFAed.  As bad as his numbers are they are still better then Frandsen's.  The odds still support Ray eventually returning to his career norms of around .800 OPS.  Should Ray play less the rest of the year so that Frandsen can play more.  Sure, but only a fool would actually bet that Frandsen has a better chance then Durham to be the better hitter next year.

by giantsrainman on Aug 21, 2007 11:59 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I've been saying that since May and he just keeps getting worse.

I mean, I'd like for him to get better and go back to being RayRay, but dude... watching him is just painful.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 22, 2007 12:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
But only because every time Frandsen starts to figure things out, he's put on an extended time out by the PTB so he can forget it all and lose all the confidence he might have built.
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 12:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
This is a horse shit excuse.  Cream rises to the top and doesn't complain about the coffee in the way.  Frandsen has been given his chances and has not produced.  He has almost 200 ABs!  Durham has a track record that justifies expecting him to eventually come around.  Ray does have 10 HRs and 60 RBIs inspite of his horrible rate numbers this year.  Frandsen needs to establish a track record with the opportunities he is given and thus far he has failed to do so.  Frandsen looks to me to be just another Niekro, Linden, or Ellison, just another AAAA player.

by giantsrainman on Aug 22, 2007 12:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I agree about Frandsen. Other players like Rajai, Ort, Lewis and Nate seized their limited opportunities and made it clear they were players, and Frandsen has not. However, they DO need to find about Frandsen, and there is absolutely no reason to not be playing him everyday right now. Ray Durham might just be in a slump and not washed up, but even if he is, what good is it to continue to play him?? The team is buried, and it's almost September. Ray Durham failed miserably this season and a hot last month is meaningless. The Giants are stuck with his contract, so he will get another chance next year, therefore it's time to take a look at the kid. We know the Giants are not going to DFA him and eat his contract because Ray is a good guy and they only do that with assholes that hurt the team both on the field AND in the clubhouse, like Livan Hernandez and Armando.
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 22, 2007 8:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Frandsen has certainly not produced, but come on, can you expect any young player to produce when they sit practically every day? I mean, look at recently... on Thursday against Atlanta, he had a good game... and then sat for the next two. Then he had another good game on Sunday and he hasn't played since then.

He's improved his OPS by ~50 points since August 13th. That's a modest improvement, considering how bad he's been, but it's still an improvement.

Durham, on the other hand, has hit .126/.267/.240 since August 13th, while playing practically every day.

I don't think they should DFA Durham, but it's time to bench him, because he's not doing anything but hurting the team in every way possible (on the field and killing what little trade value he had left.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 22, 2007 8:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Sometimes it takes prospects a while to figure out the majors.  This does not mean that they will not be able to make it in the majors.  You say almost 200 at bats like that is a lot or something.  That's less than half of what he should have.  Do you really believe that less than 200 at bats is enough to tell about a player's ability to contribute in the majors?  Cream rises to the top?  Like Alex Gordon?  Would you have said Carlos Beltran was done, that the league had figured him out, after his horrible sophomore season?  Sometimes prospects just need time, and more importantly playing time, to figure things out in the majors.  And that is something that Frandsen has definately not gotten this year.  Even if he plays every day the last month of the season, it's pretty much been a wasted one in regards to Frandsen.  And that's not something the Giants can afford to do.
"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 22, 2007 8:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm finally onboard
with the people that think this guy is Sabes.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 22, 2007 11:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm finally onboard
What took you so long?
Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 1:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Durham's slump is actually pretty easy to explain:
  1. His LD% is down 28.6 percent from last year, which has led to
  2. A BABIP of .256
In other words, the numbers show what we all see: he's not making hard contact. Declining numbers like that can either be some nagging injury, or, more likely in Durham's case, being inconvenienced by a giant fork sticking out of his back.

by Steve on Aug 22, 2007 1:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
man, that's a great line!! Why can't I think of clever lines like that?
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 22, 2007 8:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

See No Evil
Like many of us tortured McCovites, it may have something to do with the distraction of the dinner fork sticking out of your eye.

by Moggeee on Aug 22, 2007 8:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: See No Evil
Thou hypocrite, first cast the dinner fork out of thine own eye, then shalt thou see clearly to cast the cocktail fork out of thy brother's eye.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 22, 2007 9:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
What I've observed is that he he pulls a lot of his well struck balls foul.

I keep thinking/hoping he's hurt, because the drop off is so unexpected.

Not only is he the farthest below his 2007 expectations, he was being counted on to be the other run producer this season.  It really hurts.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 22, 2007 8:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Thats like saying he isn't hitting because he isn't hitting.  Hitting line drives is hitting.  This expains absolutely nothing.

by giantsrainman on Aug 22, 2007 7:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
You're missing the point. Ground balls become outs at a MUCH higher percentage than line drives do. Hitting line drives as opposed to ground balls is a skill. Ray Durham is hitting line drives at a rate MUCH lower than he ever has in his career. That means he's hitting more ground balls. That means his hits are more likely to be turned into outs.

He's lost a skill. Statistically speaking we can see this. He still has some of his other skills. He still does not strike out any worse than ever before. That's a skill. He still walks about the same as he always has. That's a skill. But he's making worse contact than ever before on the balls he's still not striking out on. That is a statistic decline of a valuable skill.

That's the point.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him.

by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 7:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I understand that line drives produce more hits.  My point is that hitting less is always hitting less line drives.  All you are saying is that Ray is hitting less line drives and thus hitting for a lower average which is the same as saying Durham is hitting for a lower average and thus hitting less line drives.  Bottom line is that hitting for a higher average and hitting more line drives are one and the same.

by giantsrainman on Aug 22, 2007 8:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
For once, I agree with giantsrainman.

Saying that Durham is hitting poorly because his line drive percentage is down is like saying Zito is pitching poorly because he gives up too many walks and home runs. It's not news when the peripherals match the output. Now if Durham's LD rate was excellent and he was still hitting like crap, then maybe it would be interesting.  

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Aug 22, 2007 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
I think there's a whole mess of misunderstandings and misreadings going on right now, but I'm not going to expend my energy trying to sort it out.

But I know that I originally misread rainmam, and it looks obvious to me that he then misread my rebuttal that was based on my original misreading, and because we're not coming from the same places I think, I have this feeling that you're misunderstanding the argument at hand (because it's not a cohesive discussion to begin with).

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about this. There are enough disparate opinions present already for anybody to make their own judgements.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him.

by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 9:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
And I could be wrong about all of that. It just looks to me like none of us are quite on the same page with the others.
Dave Righetti: You don't know him.

by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 9:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No.
Sometimes, a hitter will get "lucky" and have a very high batting average, despite not hitting many line drives. Other times, a hitter will get "unlucky" and have a very low batting average, despite hitting many line drives.

Balls in play data is useful for assessing a player's batting average, and slugging.

by rfloh on Aug 23, 2007 12:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sit Durham
SF knows what Durham has done in the past. We are living in the present. In the future he is owed 7.5M for the 2008 season. Too expensive to eat his salary. Let Franny play. Let Brian Houdini work some winter magic - possibly a salary swap similar to Alphonzo for Finley deal.

by wilriv21 on Aug 22, 2007 1:35 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Sit Durham
Jeezo Wil: What do you mean "too expensive to eat his salary"? What difference does it make to the game on the field. He's been killing this team all year. Look at the stats in the diary. Thats not even worthy of an invite to spring training. If he had any decency, he would retire and negotiate something with the Giants.

I wouldn't eat moldy hamburger just because its already paid for; and I wouldn't drive a car with no brakes just because I had 12 more payments on it. To me it makes no sense to play somebody who clearly has no more skills just because he is owed money? Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Unfortunately, thats the way this organization think too. I suppose in some strange world it makes sense to stay married to a crack-whore because you don't want to have to pay her alimony.

There are only 36 games left in the season. Durham is not going to pull it out. The season is effectively over except for about 150ABs. As much as Frandsen has been a failure, give him those 36 consecutive games to make a decision one way or another. Then come the offseason you know for sure one way or another if you have to fill that hole for 2008. No more of this screwing around back and forth hemming and hawing between old baseball cards who may or may not have anything left in the tank and "prospects" who may or may not be worth a crap but we'll never know because we can only insert them here and there because we have old guys we're paying a lot of money too and we'll just play it by ear.  Like for the last 10 years under Sabaen. No plans. Just signings and shuffling.

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 22, 2007 8:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Sit Durham
Moldy hamburger...check
Car with no brakes...check
Married to a crack-whore...check

I'm saving each of those lines for future use.  Perhaps when the nay-sayers out there start up the "We need to resign Pedro Feliz to a three year deal!" garbage.

Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 10:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Sit Durham
...two year deal?
Steve Kline: Lately, significantly less okay

by groug on Aug 22, 2007 12:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Hey Ray, Yer old!!!!

That'll learn 'em.

I did MY job.

by MeSoKrabby on Aug 22, 2007 8:17 AM PDT   0 recs

I SAY KEEP DURHAM FOR ONE MORE YEAR
and pay him millions while we're at it.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 22, 2007 8:55 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: I SAY KEEP DURHAM FOR ONE MORE YEAR
consider it done.
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 9:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
If we don't re-sign Bonds, we're guaranteed that Durham will play better. After all, Bonds is the reason Durham is hitting .223.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 22, 2007 8:56 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Might as well play him, he might bump his stats up and increase his trade value.

It's not like we really need to see more of Kevin Fucking Frampton.

by zenbitz on Aug 22, 2007 11:58 AM PDT   0 recs

Frandsen Comes Alive
Sit Durham, play Franny.

by wilriv21 on Aug 22, 2007 2:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Good lord, I have Durham and Giles as my second basemen on my fantasy team.  No wonder I'm in second-to-last place.

(Having Matt Cain doesn't help out the wins category either)

by War on Aug 22, 2007 2:48 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
The question then becomes. Who the hell is in last place? And is he allowed to play with sharp objects?
Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 22, 2007 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

From our Gift Department
We've already mailed him the Official McCovey silver-plated cocktail fork set.

(With user-approved tines long enough to imbed in the retina.)

by Moggeee on Aug 23, 2007 1:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Has everyone forgotten that Ray was arguably the Giants best player in the second half of last season?  How quickly they forget.

by sharksrog on Aug 22, 2007 6:32 PM PDT   0 recs

Bonds worked with Durham last season
Possibly after the now infamous stroll by Sweeney's locker.

by wilriv21 on Aug 22, 2007 6:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
To quote the astute philosopher, Ms. Janet Jackson, "what have you done for me lately??" What good does it do the Giants that Ray had a good year LAST year??
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 23, 2007 7:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Off The Wall
About as much good as continuing to play the squid at second when his season and the Giants' season was long ago lost.

by Moggeee on Aug 23, 2007 8:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
Can someone throw a brink through Sabean's window and tell the thick headed nurf-herder to DL Durham for the season. Give Frasden at least one real chance to show us what he has. If Franny sucks we still have Durham for next year. No one loses here. Durham stops embarrassing himself, Franny gets his chance and the team uses a losing season for something productive.

God the Giants are just so arse backwards right now.

by covenant on Aug 23, 2007 10:29 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Open Ray Durham Venting Forum
and all that bad spelling is what I get for not previewing my post

by covenant on Aug 23, 2007 10:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

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