Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Hindsight is always 20/20 but I'd say that most of us predicted that a lot of the moves made in the offseason were going to blow up in Sabean's face. The only pass he gets is that there were so many holes to fill and no one wants to hit at ATT.
Bruce Bochy: He's my choice for worst signing. I've never really been one to hate on managers but he has done nothing to gain my confidence that he knows what he's doing. He had the easiest managing job in the majors with laid-back SD and it appears they let him leave for a reason. He is predictable in his play-calling, doesn't understand that this team is rebuilding and doesn't appear to be a motivater of men at all. I beleive players like him only because he stays out of their business. If Grady Little can be fired for leaving in Pedro Martinez too long, than Bochy should be fired for the worst managing year I have ever seen.
Ray Durham: He was signed because Sabean couldn't sign anyone else to protect Bonds and Durham has not only failed to do that, he has failed at every aspect of the game. I always thought he was lazy during those years he spent so much time on the DL and I had a feeling last year was a fluke. I wanted Frandsen to be the starting 2B so bad this year but sort of understood because Durham was supposed to be a 3 or 5 hitter. The biggest mistake of this signing was the 2 years. Sabean should have made Durham prove he could do it for 1 more year with an option year but I don't think anyone could have predicted he would be this bad.
Barry Zito: He still has time to turn his year around and 6 more years to prove he's worth 126 million, but his contract is the only reason why this team can't seriously go after A-Rod in the offseason. Just think of a rotation of Cain-Lowry-Lincecum-Sanchez-Misch/Correia with A-Rod as our starting SS in '08. It's wishful thinking but could have been much more likely without this ridiculous contract that he will probably never live up to unless he wins a Cy Young and wins the Wolrd Series MVP. I was happy when they signed him but 126 million?!? In the words of Jimmmy "C-c-c-c'mon."
Dave Roberts: He makes the list for one reason-our minor league system's only strength right now is in the outfield and he is blocking a lot of talent. Rajai, Fred, Nate, Dan, Brian, Clay...the bottom line is I would rather see any of these guys in CF than Roberts. He is at best a really good bench player who can steal a base when you need one. He's a pie-thrower in the outfield and news of his good defense were greatly exaggerrated. 3 years for this guy??!! Thanks but no thanks. Now what do we do with him?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
The 94-96 and 05-07 segments of the Barry years prove that building such a team isn't easy to do...
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
We aren't one man away from an honorable season here folks. We've got more holes than the Titanic and by bringing in A-Rod there's no way that these sub .500 years will cease.
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Were you away on a cruz?
2002 was about as deep as you can go in the playoffs without winning the whole enchilada.
Re: Were you away on a cruz?
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Were you away on a cruz?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I think many would argue that Texas's problems during the Rodriguez years had more to do with the $55 mil to Chan Ho Park than the $27 mil to Rodriguez. I would probably be one of the many. Unfortunately, we've got Zito, our very own Chan Ho-style albatross.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
My point is that I don't believe the experience of the Bonds years proves that you can't win with a team built around one superstar.
by EliminateMe on Aug 22, 2007 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Kent = Star
Since Kent joined the Giants, at no time did he ever equate to role player, or even near-role player status.
Not trying to invalidate the point you're making, just trying to make sure you recognize that Kent wasn't even close to being a role player in his Giants tenure.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I'm not a fan of Kent
Kent's probably a borderline HOFer.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Under the new, standard, seven year with an option contract for overpriced FA signings.
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
You do know that A-Rod will be asking for nearly TWICE what Barry is making this year, right?!?
Pop in the middle of the lineup ain't shit if you've got a bunch of has-beens and never-will-bes around him. Name one guy on the current squad you'd feel comfortable with "protecting" A-Rod in the lineup? Durham....Kelsko....Winn....Molina....nobody. We ain't got nobody to put around him. We might as well just call ourselves the Rangers and move to Arlington...because their experiment with him went about as good as ours will.
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I swear any mention of A-Rod just gets everyone all hot and bothered.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
The times, they are a-changin'...
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
-D
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
re: not my money.
by likmaiballs on Aug 22, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: re: not my money.
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: re: not my money.
I think it has to do the fact that the Giants have a $90mil payroll. If they exceed that with a few contracts, we know that they won't have payroll flexibility to sign another bat. We could say they SHOULD pony up and tack another $90mil on top of their current salary limit, but we all know that's not happening. We're not the Red Sox and Yankees here.
Re: re: not my money.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Do beers costs $20 in Yankees stadium?
Supply and demand.
Re: re: not my money.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: re: not my money.
Re: re: not my money.
If you want to ignore reality and just say what the team should do without any consideration of the facts then any neighborhood bar, AT&T Urinal line or random fans on the Bart train will suffice.
by orangeandblackattack on Aug 22, 2007 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: re: not my money.
Re: re: not my money.
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 23, 2007 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Because it's true.
The fact that "one player" doesn't make the team is a reflection on the inability for certain front office staff to build a team. At least when that one player is the best player ever. Or in the case of Arod, a sure-fire HOFer with a chance to be one of the best players ever.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
But to blame the one good one instead of the 24 bad ones (overstatement) seems a bit misguided.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 23, 2007 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
As for Bochy, I pretty much retain my preseason "meh". I don't think he's what's killing the Giants this season, but he hasn't exactly shaken them out of it, either.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Aug 22, 2007 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I would say that virtually no one predicted Durham's complete collapse. I think it's funny that there's a lot of people saying "Sabean is a moron and should have just played Frandsen" when the move was largely lauded around here when Durham was re-signed. Smacks of MMQB'ing to me.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Ray Durham's signing
Ray seems like a nice guy. I wish him well; I hope he takes Harold Reynolds' place on Baseball Tonight. The sooner, the better.
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 22, 2007 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Do I get an award for that?
Manny is young and trying to prove himself. I wanted him to be our manager for about the same reasons I was excited the Niners hired Mike Nolan. I didn't like the Bochy signing initially, but it grew on me when I heard him speak. I definitely like the way he handles the pitching staff. But I agree, I think Manny could have lit that fire under this team.
Or having a manager younger than Barry could have rendered him completely useless. Not sure which is the correct answer.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
It's a major problem when you need a team completely free of healthy veterans for a manager to play a prospect every day...
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I didn't expect last place, but I absolutley KNEW that we wouldn't be good. No franchise, not even the Yankees or Red Sox could overcome (by its own decisions) holes to be filled at 1b, 3b, 2b, cf, rf, c all at once. And to think that the fucking braintrust didn't prepare for the obvious ending of contracts last off-season??!!??!!
I put Zito as the worst because we'll be stuck with him until like 2040.
by Kent @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 22, 2007 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Would our record this year be similar? Most definitely.
Would the "kids" get more chances to prove their worth and thereby provide Sabean with some valuable info regarding our building blocks for the future? I'd like to think so.
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 23, 2007 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Durham was a good signing at the time. Saying otherwise is pure hindsight... even in his "bad" years as a Giant, he had OPS+ of 111, 115, 107 and 127. Nobody could have predicted that he'd suddenly fall off to a 73. There was nothing in his track record to indicate that he even had a season this bad in him.
Roberts wasn't a good idea, but he's also not Juan Pierre, so he gets plus points for that.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
But Zito -- that one's going to cripple us for years and years. Zito is in the running for the worst offseason acquisition of all time. Now, if Ray Durham were to spend the winter inventing a time machine and went back to the 1980s and ran around blowing up Safeways so that the company went bankrupt and Peter Magowan never had the money to buy the franchise and the team moved to Tampa -- then Zito might have some competition.
And Bochy's actually pretty good.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Omar criticized him last night for getting the bullpen up in the 9th and rattling Lincecum. While I don't fault Bochy for that really (Lincecum shouldn't get rattled by that) Omar's criticism shows that the players aren't on the same page as him and that is a sign that he is not a good leader.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
But what I like about Bochy is that he's done a pretty good job of running the pitching staff, especially the bullpen. The pen isn't great this year, but the difference between last year's performance under Alou and this year's under Bochy, with largely the same personnel, is night and day. And while he's left Matt Cain in to throw too many pitches a few times, he seems to have a generally good idea of when to take a pitcher out.
The inane baserunning gambits are small potatoes in comparison.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Although I hate how as soon as Hennesey gets into trouble he gets the bullpen going. Either let him have the 9th or not. Bullpen by committee never works, he needs to set some more solid roles so guys can get comfortable. How many guys have pitched the 7th and 8th? I know its a mess but there is no order in the bullpen and I think he could be doing a little better job.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Bochy's chief problem is that he sees the older players on staff as a comfort blanket when they're really a skanky pox-ridden blanket instead...
Zito's the real killer here. You'd think $125M would buy someone who could, y'know, throw a strike or two.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
While that contract doesn't hurt us too bad right now while we are rebuilding with younger, cheaper players can you imagine the effect it will have in 4 or 5 seasons? What if we can't sign a player we need because of that albatross of a contract?
I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's a good chance Zito won't even be in baseball anymore by the end of his contract.
Bochy Stuff and Why I voted Barry Zito
BP has a nice article on it in their book called 'Baseball Between the Numbers' and they found that:
In fact, their study found that managers are more likely to cost their respect teams wins because of overuse of such strategies (sac. bunts, intentional walks, stolen bases) instead of helping the team. Frank Robinson cost his teams -3.20 wins per season in his career because of his overuse of those mentioned strategies. Former Giants skipper, Roger Craig, is right behind him with -3.10 wins.
The managers that utilized these tactic's the best were at most adding 0.63 wins per season (Dick Williams in 1983, according to BP's research, had the best season for a manager from the era of 1972-2004).
It's extremely difficult to find out exactly just what the manager is responsible for and what he isn't. The front office can mandate in-game strategies, who starts, and set pitch count limits. It's impossible to pinpoint who did what move and why. You just can't attribute every move to the manager.
The reason that guys like Durham and Aurilia are still starting could very well be out of Bochy's hands. If the front office is making him start those players, what can he do?
On the other hand, Barry Zito is signed to a giant deal that's already looking bad in year 1. His declining peripherals (BB/9, K/9) were a scary fortune teller to what he could become. I don't think Zito is this bad but giving 7 year deals to pitchers has never, ever worked out before in baseball and I don't expect it to work now.
Re: Bochy Stuff and Why I voted Barry Zito
On a veteran team a laid back guy like Bochy is tolerable, but for the upcoming rebuilding project I think the Giants should try to find someone else that can fire kids up.
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Bochy Stuff and Why I voted Barry Zito
Re: Bochy Stuff and Why I voted Barry Zito
I believe Dusty Baker has cost his teams more through an irresponsible use of pitchers than his productive outs.
The most important things a manager can do is manage the personalities of the players, reduce the likelihood of injuries (pitch counts, etc), not give up lots of outs doing stupid micro-management things, and not cost a lot of money.
Basically, the perfect manager is a low-salaried Bobby Cox who almost never tries to hit and run.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Zito has been a disappointment and won't live up to his contract, but he at least fills a need; ignoring the contract he is a serviceable middle rotation/slightly above average end-of-the-rotation guy who is on the mound every 5th day.
Durham, i don't know, i'm sure he evens out Winn on the pick-up basketball game they play between double-headers.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
If the Giants were the Yankees or the Red Sox, perhaps we could overlook the stupid amount of money that Zito is making. However, we are not those teams and a bad contract like that can severely hamper our ability to sign other players in the future.
by Sandor Clegane on Aug 22, 2007 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
But a seven year deal for a pitcher with declining numbers and declining skill? That's what makes Zito such a bad acquisition, and why he's running away with the title of Worst Offseason Acquisition.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Then everyone will be like "Hey, we signed this guy because he's a pitcher AND a musician AND he dated Paris Hilton. He is sooo cool and dreamy our female audience will be bigger than when J.T. was making the ladies swoon." He's worth so much more this city and team than his mediocre pitching because he's soooooo multi-talented.
At least that's what Magowan must have been thinking when he admittedly overpaid for him. Is there any other team that would have even given him 6 years?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
I think the main reason we got Zito was because of years six and seven. I heard the Mets offered five, and they were the only real competition for Zito.
And seven years from now, if Zito's skills continue to decline like they have been, not even the ladies will love themselves some Barry. Girls don't tend to go for losers. Though I might be oversimplifying.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Aug 22, 2007 11:08 AM PDT reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by southcitysteve on Aug 22, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Bingo
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Gringo
by PacBellBoozer on Aug 22, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Dingo
by VidaWantsYourCar on Aug 22, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
How would ARod help this team? For the 20 million we'll be paying Zito for the next decade years, we could have ARod for 10-12 million more. Would you pay 10 million next year to have ARod? I know anyone would in a heartbeat. Maybe that makes ARod a bad investment rather than a terrible investment. But this farm will produce a league-average starting pitcher, and he won't cost 18 million (average) a year.
And, yes, we'd have plenty of holes to fill... what if you brought Bonds back for another year? Could ARod, Bonds, Molina, Klesko and Winn give you a shot at having a league-average offense next year? Wanna add Lowell to the mix?
Durham was a terrible signing too, but no one could have predicted his dramatic fall off of the "good" tree. It was a signing we needed to have any shot at something resembling an offense.
Roberts (and his big contract) was redundant with Winn (and his big contract) and Lewis around, as well as 3+ outfielders waiting in the wings for AB's. But it wasn't 18 mil a year. And Roberts could still very well post above average OBP for the next 2 1/4 years.
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
by howtheyscored on Aug 22, 2007 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Yeah, the genius Rangers
Or to put it another way, do you want the Giants to emulate the Rangers?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
Re: Poll: Worst Offseason Acquisition?
They Are All Equally Worthless
Feliz
Aurelia
Klesko
Kline
Talk about Eight Men Out. Arnold Rothstein could have just convinced Charlie Comisky to trade Sabaen straight across and saved himself the bribe money.
by E Ticket on Aug 22, 2007 3:40 PM PDT reply actions

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