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Bonds helps teammates. FACT.

Hazmat_copy_tiny by The Gene Hackman on

...of course you never hear this from the media.
Folks who enjoy hating Bonds love to point out how much his teammates hate him.  Yet today in the comical, there's a nice little anecdote buried:

Frandsen, who had been struggling, homered after having a talk with Bonds between games of Monday's doubleheader in Pittsburgh.

Barry and I worked a little, stuff we needed to talk about, and got me locked in," Frandsen said. "Barry helped me out a lot, told me I could hit and helped me be in the position to do it. He cleared a lot in my mind."

Schulman, Ostler or any other hack could take this anecdote and turn it into a feel-good story about Bonds, but they choose not to.  Why is that?

But there it is in plain black and white.  Barry even helps the most midget-esque of Giants, Kevin Frandsen.  Too bad Bonds doesn't have some good prospects to work with.

Possible comment starter.  Would Bonds make a good hitting coach for the Giants in the future?  Would he do it?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Apparently, he's also taken Rajai under his wing. Didn't I also once hear that Bonds had worked a bit with Ortmeier, and thought he had the most pure swing of the Giants youth movement?
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 17, 2007 11:09 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I have little doubt he could make a great hitting coach.  I strongly doubt he'd want to do that though.  For some reason, I envision Barry as someone who will kind of just disappear into the night when he (finally) retires.  He seems to cherish his private life and is probably looking forward to that.

by sfgfan on Aug 17, 2007 11:10 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I think he'll pull a McCovey. There'll be plenty of shots of him sitting in a lux box watching games but  he won't interact with the press much except for a bit of charity stuff.
Merkin Valdez career SO/9: 10.8

by Poe on Aug 17, 2007 11:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
After listening to that interview with Kruk and Kuip, I agree that he'd make a great hitting coach.  But you're right, he probably won't go down that path.  Not many players who've made "set for life" money playing the game seem willing to put up with the headaches and travel of coaching.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I'd like him to break further ground---how about future owner of the San Francisco Giants?
Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Aug 17, 2007 11:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I agree his involvement as a coach is unlikely...  Do folks here think that might change, tho, if Nikolai ever makes the bigs?
"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 11:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
If his son ever made the bigs (or even minors), spring training could be a possibility.  I find it more likely, though, that he'd be more like Chris Lincecum (just coaching his kid on the side, being his first point of reference, etc).

by sfgfan on Aug 17, 2007 11:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I believe Nikolai is planning on going to Business school.  I've never heard anything of him playing ball.  What do I know, tho?

by positiveuphemism on Aug 17, 2007 1:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Lets see. Hang out in locker rooms, take long boring uncomfortable trips, stand around in the grass while people yell at you for 3 of the 13 hour workdays you put in.

Or help your old man spend his money.

(cue jeopardy music)

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 2:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
A) You quote Schulman about Bonds and Frandsen, then crap on him for not reporting it? Besides, as beat writer, his writing is game coverage and "notes" not lengthy feel good stories.

B) This happened last night and the team is on the road. The Ostler-type columnists are just reading about it this morning and not with the team to get more of the story.  You might very well see a column on this, but it wouldn't have been in this morning's paper.  

I'd wait a few days before getting indignant.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 11:18 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Yeah, I'll always have a soft spot for Schulman just because he'd come onto the Giants newsgroup and pick our brains. Class act, at least with respect to internet nerds.

by Grant on Aug 17, 2007 11:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Schulman is as good as it gets. He always takes the time to answer e-mails from me, which rarely seems to happen with other writers.  

by KCE on Aug 17, 2007 11:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Hank
Enjoy his column and he has answered every email I have sent him.

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 12:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
He's also a hell of a writer. His story after the Giants loss in game 4 of the 2003 NLDS in Florida was as good as it gets.

by KCE on Aug 17, 2007 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I'd like to read that. Is it available?
Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Aug 17, 2007 8:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Point well taken, re A.  Still, I don't remember very many positive stories from Schulman about Bonds, let alone those other writers.

With regard to B, well, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for the local writers to give Bonds his due.  I think we've all been waiting for that for a while...

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 11:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I have a tough time seeing how Ostler's take could really upset you: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/08/08/SP8LREVAT3.DTL
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 12:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Goofus, you're always diplomatic and reasonable even when dealing with controversial posters and stances (eg rainman's alleged anti-Bonds bias).  It's to be commended, for sure.  

Ostler and Knapp and Slusser, all take their shots at bonds when they can.  Some of them toned it down a little when he broke the record.  

My defense would be that you're cherry picking Ostler's most sympathetic piece here.  Go back further and you see his bias in full bloom.

Even the article you cite is full of disclaimers and back-handed compliments.  The article is entitled "Like it or not..." for crying out loud.

I guess it boils down to:  Would you really argue that Ostler writes favorably about Bonds? Fairly?  or does he usually write in negative terms.

My experience is that he, and most of the Chron writers, are less pro-Bonds than actual fairness would require.

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 12:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I've been reading Ostler and would say he writes "fairly".  (I just grabbed that one because it was the most recent I could find.) There are certainly two sides to the Bonds argument and to ignore it would make Ostler look stupid.  His job is to provoke thought with his comments.  I don't think it's his duty to gush on any player.  The easiest way to see Bonds' greatness is to look at his numbers.  We can do that on our own.

I thought the "like it or not" comment was a jab at Bonds' detractors, not Bonds himself.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 12:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Who, in local or national media, gushes about Bonds?

Krukow is the only 'media' person i can think of who never says anything bad about Bonds.  

I guess I see 'fair' as somewhere in between Schulman and Krukow.

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 1:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
That's my point; it's not their job to gush and I don't want them to.  My definition of fair; a writer who writes about both the good and the bad.  Many around here perceive the slightest to Bonds and ask as though the writer called their girlfriend a whore.  

Regarding Krukow: By his standards, he ripped Bonds a new one the other day on KNBR saying he needs to be in there more and even suggesting it might be time for the team to go in another direction.  

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 1:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Goofus, check out these columns, especially the last one, and see if Ostler couldn't be more 'fair':

not fair and balanced:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/07/SPO1RE6F62.DTL

downright snarky:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/29/SPB0R95C82.DTL

Bonds is a crappy teammmate:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/12/SP7GRGDAB.DTL

This last one is an article where Ostler could have balanced his usual bitchy stance towards Bonds with something positive about bonds as a teammate.  He does nothing of the sort.  He doesn't want to.  He dislikes Bonds and it shows.  I'd say that's bias, not fairness.

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 1:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Only had time to read the last one.  Not sure what the problem is.  Struck me as simply an observation.  He even complemented Bonds' thick skin and took a poke at the fans who were jeering him in L.A. by keeping the ball.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 2:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
We disagree about what the evidence means...

Ostlers conclusion that Bonds has a thick skin and either a 'social disconnection' or a 'Diva Complex' (because he makes Ostler wait) reads like a petty writer's vendetta to me.  

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 2:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I can see Barry showing up during spring training - if he is asked very nicely by the Giants and working with some of the younger players.  I think he would like to play the role his father played with him - the wise counselor and hitting guru.

by APGiantsFan on Aug 17, 2007 11:29 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
It's taken a while, but I've actually grown to like Schulman's writing and reporting. He seems to cover Bonds fairly, probably no easy task given the newspaper for whom he works. He's pretty good at capturing the complexity of the players' relationship with Bonds (off-the-record gripes about Bonds' effort balanced by on-the-record praise for Bonds' hitting advice) without injecting his personal views.
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Aug 17, 2007 11:32 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
"...without injecting his personal views."

Exactly.  

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 11:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
This diary wasn't really designed to rip Schulman....  which i guess I've done.  Apologies.  Of the Chronicle writers I like him the most.  (So so very glad glenn dickey is gone!)

The point I was trying to make is that the press-- even the local press -seem to acquiesce to positive Bonds anecdotes, and labor intensively over the negative ones.

And it's too bad, because Bonds give the youngsters good advice.

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 11:39 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Bonds won't coach anymore than Mays or Montana. Why would anybody in that position want Joe LaFake's job? And unlike Joe, Barry didn't go to high school with Sabaen, so he is probably underqualified.
Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 11:42 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
How many of the games greatest have gone on to coach or manage?  Not many.  And even less successfully.  Ted Williams managed briefly, and was a hitting coach briefly.  Neither of which he was any good at.  Are there any that have been successful or even interested?  Ruth, Mays, Aaron?  The best player I can think of is Frank Robinson.  One of the all-time greats to be sure, but he's the exception and not the rule for whatever reason.

Now, with Barry, who cherishes his private life, it seems even less likely.

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 17, 2007 11:44 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Ruth desperately wanted to manage, I'm pretty sure.
"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 17, 2007 11:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Thats only because he would have had first dibs on beer and the post game spread
Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 11:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
The old adage is that a naturally great player like Williams make lousy coaches because they can't relate to most players' mortal ability. Tony Gwynn might be an exception because, as he said himself, his natural skills were ordinary and he had to work harder and smarter to be great.

I think the best coaches is a guy who was good enough as a player to garner respect, yet not so talented that they can't relate to players.  Dusty and Felipe are pretty good examples.  Bochy was an extremely unremarkable player, but his team's seem to respect him as a man.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 12:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I would love Bonds to retire after this season and become the Giants hitting coach.

I would also love to have a "holo-deck" in my house, where I could realistically simulate any situation and live in virtual reality when it suits me.

One of these things is more likely to happen than the other, only I'm not sure which.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 17, 2007 11:44 AM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
this is a LIE put forth by the Barry Bonds spin machine to counter the TRUE FACT that Barry Bonds is the worst teammate in the history of major league baseball...and that he recently caused the Utah mine collapse, the earthquake in Peru, Hurricane Dean and the mortgage crisis.
Congrats, Barry. You're the best there ever was in this game.

by nostocksjustbonds on Aug 17, 2007 12:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Just who do you work for....Fox News?
Omar says, "Dammit gaffer! Bring in a few defenders, a mid-fielder or two, and nice pull w/Alan Smith."

by PacBellBoozer on Aug 17, 2007 1:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Best Bonds story EVER
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293625,00.html

"Barry Bonds uses Hank Aaron's corked bat during ballgames," writes Riches in the claim. "The bat has a secret chambers [sic] where Barry stores his HGH supplements. Bonds takes them while he awaits [sic] in the batters box."

Bonds also used the errant bat -- which Riches says he won at a Sotheby's auction in 1998 -- to crack the Liberty Bell, the lawsuit states.

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 12:44 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Best Bonds story EVER
lol didn't this guy also accuse Bonds of selling steroids to nuns?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 17, 2007 12:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It gets better
The last paragraph is even funnier:

    Last month's lawsuit against Vick, whose co-defendants pleaded guilty to dogfighting charges on Friday, claims the Atlantic Falcons star stole       Riches' pit bulls and sold them on eBay to buy missiles from Iran.

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Best Bonds story EVER
The full complaint as found on thesmokinggun.com also accuses Bonds of being a communist guerilla (having joined FARC, who provide him with HGH tablets) and of giving mustard gas to Saddam Hussein.

It further reveals that the location of the clandestine Bonds/Selig meetings was "the I-70 Steak N Shake, Booth #11".

Disappointingly, I couldn't find the details behind the claim of "illegal moonshine".

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 17, 2007 1:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
You folks remember that in-dugout Bonds/ Kent fracas some years back?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it that Barry was coming to the defense of a teammate Kent had chewout out?

Who was the teammate, and what had he done?  I don't remember.

by biff pocoroba on Aug 17, 2007 12:45 PM PDT   0 recs

And in this corner DAVID BELL
Kent had forgotten to cover 2b on a force out so Bell had to throw the ball to first for the out. On the way back to dugout Bell expressed his unhappiness to Kent. Both Kent and Bell began to drop f-bombs and continued in the dugout. Bonds told them to cool it. Kent dropped an f-bomb on Bonds who proceeded to pin him up against the dugout wall. Baker came in to calm things down and Kent said something to the effect that Baker always sides with Bonds.

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: And in this corner DAVID BELL
I thought Kent was the one who started bitching out Bell.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 17, 2007 12:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: And in this corner DAVID BELL
Yeah, after that incident they went on to win the world series.

Or maybe I'm just remembering that wrong.....

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 17, 2007 2:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I thought it had something to do with Bell not tagging up on Kent's flyout? My memory is horrible.
Proud Papa of Brad Hennessey since 2007. Newly minted closer?

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Aug 17, 2007 6:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
The fight occurred after the Padres scored four runs in the second to take a 5-0 lead. The pivotal play was a slow one-out chopper to Bell, who tried to force Wiki Gonzalez at second base. Kent overran the bag before taking the throw, and everybody was safe.

Kent said he was yelling at Bell to get the out at first, which would have meant two out, a runner at second and pitcher Kevin Pickford batting. Bell said he thought the best play was at second.

According to witnesses, once the inning ended Bell and Kent started yelling at each other in the dugout.

"David Bell and Jeff Kent started throwing F-bombs back and forth. Barry stuck up for David Bell. Jeff Kent then started going 'F-- you' to Bonds," according to a fan who provided only his first name, Scott. He was sitting in a small section of field-level seats that are practically inside the Giants' dugout. There is a clear view of the entire dugout from those seats.

A groundskeeper standing nearby provided a similar account to an Associated Press photographer.

Bell declined to comment, saying, "I'd rather not. It's something that just happened on our team."

The fan said Bonds and Kent started yelling at each other before Bonds shoved Kent. Baker pulled Kent away and head trainer Stan Conte restrained Bonds. Baker then started yelling at Kent, later saying the second baseman said something the manager did not like.

Scott, the fan, said Kent yelled that he wanted off the team and Baker responded, 'Don't you ever talk that way to me.' " Another account had Kent telling Baker that this was Bonds' team anyway.

Kent would not discuss anything that he said in the dugout, and Baker sniffed, "How are you going to believe what some fan said?"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/06/26/SP71883.DTL&type=pr intable

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 6:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Oh shit.   I think I miss Dusty, now, too.  

C'mon, how fun would this losing season be if we had Dusty making ludicrous excuses after ever game.  Answer:   a lot of fun.

by satyricrash on Aug 17, 2007 7:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Hell I miss Richard Nixon now.

by robbgin on Aug 17, 2007 8:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
Whoa! I know it's been a frustrating season, but please I hope I never ever hear or read that man's name as long as I live.

by Buzzword on Aug 18, 2007 7:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
I don't think Bonds will have anything to do with baseball after he retires. I think he's had enough of the circus. You think the media will EVER leave him alone with all this stuff??
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 17, 2007 7:02 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Bonds helps teammates. FACT.
To paraphrase Greg Papa from the other night, "I'm looking forward to his book on hitting when he retires."

I don't see him as a coach in any capacity.  He DOES, however, go to ASU every Spring Training to give the college kids some pointers.

Ted Williams wrote the bible on hitting, period.  I'd love to see what Barry could put together in his own words about hitting.  It would be interesting to compare the two at the least.

"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Aug 17, 2007 9:58 PM PDT   0 recs

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