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Vizquel Clears Waivers

Looking on the MLBTraderumors site, I noticed that Omar Vizquel has officially cleared waivers.

Does anyone believe he will be dealt?  And if so, where and for who?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
i sure hope he does NOT get moved. he's the one vet (other than BLB) who I enjoy watching out there every day. Giants baseball will be even MORE brutal without his glove.
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 16, 2007 3:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
For the Giants and their fans, it's all about the future.

Next season when the Giants likely lose close to 100 games you will have bigger worries on your mind than whether the smooth-fielding Omar Vizquel is at shortstop or some young guy who can't hold Omar's glove but is an actual prospect who is younger than 30.

The Giants are in desperate need of young players who can improve their roster over the next three or four years.

When Barry Bonds leaves, so does the only Giants hitter who is much above average.  That means the Giants will likely need two very good hitters merely to REPLACE Barry.  Add in the two very good hitters they probably need on top of that to be a true contender, and you've got a need for at least four plus bats.

That's pretty tough to pick up in less than three or four years.  By four plus bats, I mean really good bats.  Something approaching Ray Durham or Moises Alou of last season.

Remember, the Giants had both those bats (albeit not for the full season) PLUS Barry last season and were only average at the plate.  If you thought hitting was going to be (and is) a problem THIS season WITH Barry, think how big a problem it is likely to be WITHOUT him next season (assuming he doesn't return).

There are only a handful of hitters who could replace Barry -- and aside from Alex Rodriguez, none will be available.  Should the Giants be willing to pay Alex $30-$35 million per season to do so?

If the Giants had Alex AND Barry and improvement at say two other everyday positions, they could possibly have a chance.  But barring something like that, their prospects for next season appear rather dim.

by sharksrog on Aug 17, 2007 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
>> Next season when the Giants likely lose close to 100 games you will have bigger worries on your mind than whether the smooth-fielding Omar Vizquel is at shortstop or some young guy who can't hold Omar's glove but is an actual prospect who is younger than 30.

Sure, if the Giants get such a guy.  If I'm paying to go, I'd rather see Omar out there than some young stiff who really is never going to make it.

by achiappanza on Aug 17, 2007 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
I too would rather watch Omar play (at least defensively).  But as a Giants fan, I feel I must look to the future.

In 1985 the Giants lost 100 games for the only time in franchise history.  Two years later, they were in the playoffs.

This time there is no Will Clark, no Robby Thompson, no Matt Williams.  The turnaround will likely take a fair amount longer.  But the sooner it begins, the earlier it is likely to take effect.

by sharksrog on Aug 18, 2007 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
I could see Vizquel and Feliz going to the Twins allowing Pinto to move to 2B.  Such a move might appease Santana.  I could even see Barry Bonds joing them to play with he buddy Tori Hunter and to take a shot at the playoffs.

by giantsrainman on Aug 16, 2007 3:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Omar would barely be an upgrade over Punto and is a lot worse than Bartlett (offensively).

They need an offensive upgrade. Barry would help, but we're not going to get anything for him at this point. I'd rather just keep him around because this team is such a bore outside of him.

They could add Feliz and he'd probably help them, but they're falling out of the race. I can't see them making a move.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 16, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Bartlett just went on the DL and might be out for the season.  This is why I could see this happening.

by giantsrainman on Aug 16, 2007 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Didn't know that.

I still don't think the Twins are likely to make any moves.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 16, 2007 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
I don't get the Twins at all. They've got half a dozen good young pitchers that they don't have room for, yet they spend the whole season with Nick Punto at third and without a decent DH. They may not be in the race, but they really ought to be.

by Evan on Aug 16, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
It's not a perfect comparison, but that sounds painfully similar to another teams self-inflicted plight.

by marcello on Aug 16, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You talking about the Giants?
Then who are these half a dozen young pitchers we don't have room for?

Sanchez I can see, Misch before the Messenger incident.  But who else?  Perhaps Sadler in AAA?  Anyone else ready to come up in the bullpen?  Munter's the only name that stands out to me, and he's never going to be great again.

Unless you're adding in Lance Niekro as our new closer as well.  ;-)

Lance Niekro AAA Watch: 94 AB .287/.355/.436 6 2B 1 3B 2 HR 10 BB (through 8/13)

by WalrusMan on Aug 16, 2007 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You talking about the Giants?
I see Niekro as more of a 7th, 8th inning guy.
Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Aug 16, 2007 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You talking about the Giants?
Billy Sadler was demoted to AA -- although he has been pitching well at that level.  I still like Billy, but he certainly has disappointed me this season.

by sharksrog on Aug 17, 2007 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You talking about the Giants?
To be fair, you're taking what I said too literally.  I said it wasn't a perfect comp.  We don't have the amount of young pitching the Twins have, but we still have more than most other teams while having only 1 impact bat in the entire organization.  The point I was trying to make, and I didn't explain it at all, was that the Giants organizational balance is skewed entirely towards pitchers and the front office has done nothing to fix that.

by marcello on Aug 17, 2007 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adios little buddy
Tigers: A championship team needs a solid SS.

Red Sox: Less chance now that Lugo is performing well.

Cardinals: Back in the hunt, can move Eckstein to 2b to replace the injured Kennedy.

by wilriv21 on Aug 16, 2007 3:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I could see the Tigers doing it
We'd get a 2nd tier minor leaguer and a PTBNL.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Aug 16, 2007 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
2010 Starting Lineup:

1B: PTBNL
2B: Noonan
SS: PTBNL
3B: Villalona!
LF: PTBNL
CF: Davis!
RF: Fairley
C: PTBNL

I'm want a Giants jersey with "PTBNL" on the back. Woohoo!

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 16, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
I think Angel will become a first baseman.  Today he made his 16th error at third.

by sharksrog on Aug 17, 2007 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
I haven't followed his errors closely -- only that he had a lot. Are these mostly throwing errors? If so a move to 1B will reduce the total significantly. If these are fielding errors then he has another challenge.

by melottfan on Aug 17, 2007 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
hahaha. Typical. The Giants give a fat 16 year old two million dollars and he can't even throw out the trash.

Gotta love that Tidrow/Hiatt Combo.  Turn it into a reality series. "The Giants have Talent"

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
Dude, Derek Jeter had 56 errors when he was 19. It's insane to assume a 16-year-old's fielding percentage isn't going to get better because it's bad in his first season of professional baseball. Assuming he'll have to change position because he'll be too big? Sure. Assuming he can't handle third because he boots too many balls as a teenager? Ridiculous.

The fact that he's holding his own at 16 -- and showing any kind of power -- is awesome.

by Grant on Aug 17, 2007 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
I agree that it's ridiculous to judge Villalona's defense right now, but Derek Jeter may not be the best example of defensive prowess.
The Maharajai steals at will (plus he's not Matt Morris).

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Aug 17, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
His defense might be bad, but that's more a problem of not getting to balls and not booting them.

by Grant on Aug 17, 2007 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
Stengel had this to say about that...
"See that fellow over there? He's 20 years old. In 10 years he has a chance to be a star. Now, that fellow over there, he's 20, too. In 10 years he has a chance to be 30."

Fat kids at 17 don't help themselves much. The Giants haven't had a lot of success lately with well conditioned farmhands in the last several years, let alone fatso's that have gloves that "clank" in the night.

Already he is presenting issues. Weight. Defense.  All before his 18th birthday. Not a good start and the fact that people are already rolling out the excuses tells me that $2 million would have paid earlier dividends if it had been spent on getting some good instructors and coaches and leave hi-risk kiddie drafts to the organizations that are already well stocked.

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
Prince Fielder is chunky as well, but I'd take him.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 18, 2007 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Now I'm getting Sabean's plan...
An exception to the rule does not a desirable trait make.  Thats like advocating cigarettes because some chode smoked Camels for 89 years and lived to be 106.

Since that was the sum total of your retort, we will all assume that you agree with my conclusion. That this kid is problematic at best. He has thus far only demonstrated a propensity for being a one-tool player (hit for power). The Giants should have used that $2million on proven successful player development people, and that the kid lacks personal discipline.

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 19, 2007 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adios little buddy
I'm sure that the Tigers are sick and tired of their power hitting young shortstop, and are eager to replace him with Omar.  Do you think that they might be interested in some Carlos Guillen/ Verlander for Vizquel package?

by biff pocoroba on Aug 16, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adios little buddy
They've been trying to acquire a SS for awhile so they can move Guillen to first. He's not very good defensively.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 16, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adios little buddy
Nor is he that young, 31.

by marcello on Aug 16, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Adios little buddy
well, compared the 41 year old vizquel he is

by sleeknerve on Aug 16, 2007 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
those of you (like me) who wouldn't mind vizquel back next year don't need to hope he isn't traded, note that the Giants can trade him AND sign him for next year during the off season

by melottfan on Aug 16, 2007 4:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
If Sabean trades a couple of more vets for players who perform as well as Davis down the stretch, could he be the first ever to finish last and win GM of the Year?

by NearestNorwich on Aug 16, 2007 7:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
I love Vizquel and will hate to see him go, but his time has come. He's 40 years old, and an equal dropoff next year would probably make him a .220 hitter. Time to get younger. Someone suggested Cesar Izturis as a cheap young alternative till one of the kids is ready, and I think it's a decent signing. As for Omar being traded this year, he has said he doesn't want to go, and I would think the Giants would respect his wishes. He's such a class act that I don't think the Giants will trade him against his wishes.
Randy Messenger says,"Ray Durham hit a ball hard enough to break my hand??"

by rxmeister on Aug 16, 2007 7:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
He said he didn't want to be traded to become a bench player.  If he could start for a playoff contender I am sure he would be happy to be traded.

by giantsrainman on Aug 16, 2007 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
If the Giants were not planning on trading him, then why did he make it through waivers?
I need old crusty vets like I need a nail driven into my brain.

by BawLa on Aug 16, 2007 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Good point, but I think most teams put almost everybody on waivers to gauge interest. The Giants would be stupid not to explore every option, but I think it would take alot for them to move him, especially when he has expressed a desire to stay.
Randy Messenger says,"Ray Durham hit a ball hard enough to break my hand??"

by rxmeister on Aug 16, 2007 7:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A 41 year-old who plays like 31
A slick-fielding shortstop who hits .250 and has seen and done everything?

No prospect can match Vizquel, even in a couple years of on-the-job training.

It's idle chatter to say good shortstop prospects could a) be picked from some tree, and b) produce even at Omar's level -- both defensively and offensively.

Such doods are hard to find, people.

Keep Omar another year.

by Moggeee on Aug 17, 2007 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A 41 year-old who plays like 31
considering the dropoff offensively from last year, assuming he's going to be a .250 hitting shortstop next year is a big assumption.
Randy Messenger says,"Ray Durham hit a ball hard enough to break my hand??"

by rxmeister on Aug 17, 2007 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A 41 year-old who plays like 31
What?!!! You do not believe that Kevin Frandsen is the SS of the Future???  Unbelievable. Didn't you know he's friends with Rags? Even wears Rags old jersey number for luck.  He's got lots of scrap, he's gritty, and pretty soon he will be savvy.  

This kid is a lock for HOF and I don't see how you can miss that.

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A 41 year-old who plays like 31
is there a continuum of gritty to savvy? as savvy increases, does grit decrease proportionally??
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 17, 2007 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Continuim
exhuberance>>scrappiness>>grittiness>>savvyness>>pentioniness
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
I believe the algorithm for calculating time travel between the foremost and the lattermost has yet to be determined.  A new METRIC!invented by Goofus.

Get to work most esteemed comrade! The Grit to Pension metric expressed in terms of time, space, motion. A most worthy endeavor.

Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
I work in finanical services and can't believe I spelled "pension" wrong.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
Especially since it's an anagram for "No penis." The joke's already built in for you. You could have gone for self-deprecating, offensive, attacking, or Ghostbusters humor. Any of them. And you blew it.

by Grant on Aug 17, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
Forgive me?
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
Then I left in a "you blew it" quip just waiting for you, and that was wasted.

Goofus = Quicker decline than Ray Durham.

by Grant on Aug 17, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
I've been playing hurt.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 17, 2007 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tape 'em up
C'mon guy, suck it up and swallow your pride.

by wilriv21 on Aug 17, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Continuim
I can't believe you're in the finanical business either. You still have it wrong. Its pinchin. At least in Georgia.
Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 17, 2007 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Unless we trade him for another short stop, we don't have anyone to replace him. Yea, frandsen can play some short, but he needs more starts at second. I don't think theres anybody from our farm system that's ready to be promoted, either.

by sup3rk1ng on Aug 17, 2007 1:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Yeah, and while Omar hits .250, Frandsen loves himself some .210.
Anxiously waiting out the adoption waiver period for Pittsburgh PTBNL.

by dangjackson on Aug 17, 2007 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Come on, don't forget Pete Happy at SS!

by otis29 on Aug 17, 2007 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Ivan Ochoa, Tomas de la Rosa, Luis Figueroa...pick one. Yeah, he'll probably be awful, but then the Giants will probably be awful next year either way. And we haven't had a Jose Uribe type at SS for a few years...

I wouldn't mind seeing Vizquel back for one more year, but if they can get any kind of prospect for him in trade, they should jump on it.

Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 17, 2007 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Interesting fact - with Omar at short the Giants could start seven left-handed hitters against right-handed pitching: Roberts, Winn, Klesko, Bonds,Durham,Omar and a leftie-pitcher. So the question becomes - how many times this year has that lineup produced multiple players batting from the left side hitting home runs at home?
If less than five maybe the Giants need to reassess why they have zero power at home with such a line-up. (Hint - we all know the answer - and it has nothing to do with the shortstop.)
 

by DiMaggio Fan on Aug 17, 2007 9:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/V/Eugenio-Velez.shtml

This kid looks decent. :S  I say this with much hesitation, looking at recent prospects.

by giants9107 on Aug 17, 2007 5:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Yes, but he's only at AA, where he started the year playing second and has since been moved to center field. As a shortstop option for 2008, not too likely.
Proud adoptive father of the All-Father and his 2.29 ERA

by EliminateMe on Aug 17, 2007 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Vizquel Clears Waivers
Yes, I know, and I didn't realize he was moved, all his pages say SS.  And anyway, what good can possibly come from Vizquel staying another year.  Let him go and get the pick, because we're gonna be bad next year too, so there's no point in keeping a 40 year old man on a losing team where he isn't really helping the "youth" movement.

by giants9107 on Aug 17, 2007 8:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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