Ranting, but not raving
This is a bad team. Also, water is wet and fire is hot. Those secrets were never really in the bag. But this is the most boring team ever assembled. That's the worst transgression of the 2007 San Francisco Giants. Think about how hard that was to do - the team was spotted the best pitching prospect in baseball and a legend chasing a record, and it's still the least-watchable team of all-time. Endless stretches of non-offense. Forty-pitch innings after twenty-five-pitch innings after thirty-pitch innings after thirty-pitch innings. Welcome to Purgatory.
Even during the good starts from guys like Zito, Lowry, and Cain, they usually nibble or lose command for extended stretches. Matt Morris has had a fine season, but he's only had one start (against the A's) that was more interesting than a city council meeting. The bullpen isn't filled with dominating electric arms, it's filled with sometimes-effective, candlelit arms. All of the pitchers throw kinda hard, they all have imperfect control, and they all lack an overpowering strikeout pitch. It's been a decent bullpen, don't get me wrong. Just boring.
Picture someone being buried alive. Imagine that person's plan for survival is to swallow every shovelful of dirt until the person doing the shoveling runs out of dirt. That's what it's like to watch Omar Vizquel, Rich Aurilia, Ray Durham, Pedro Feliz and Dave Roberts hit. Every once in a while, one of those four will do something that resembles anything, and that's like a big, satisfying swallow of dirt. Heck, maybe half of a shovelful's worth. That'll buy some time. Good for them. But the advantage will never be theirs. And it's kind of tedious.
If that image is hard to imagine, try replacing the word "dirt" with "suck". So, like, they're just in a hole, having suck shoveled upon them as they try and swallow the suck, but that just makes them suck more! What to do? There's no time to talk about this, dammit, just keep swallowing the suck! So they're swallowing the suck, trying to chew up the suck as fast as they can, and suck is dribbling down their chins, suck is in their eyes and hair, and they look skyward to plea for help, but that's just a waste of time they don't have - they have to keep chewing the suck, swallowing the suck, and then going back for more. That's their only chance!
Sounds tense, doesn't it? It's not. It's boring.
Sucking is inevitable. But there's no upside to the hitters who are sucking. If Fred Lewis rakes a double in the middle of a slump, that's great. Maybe it's indicative of something larger - some sort of visible development that will carry over into the future. If Rich Aurilia rakes a double in the middle of a slump, it doesn't mean anything. Even a blind squirrel, and all that. My plan for making the team more interesting:
- Lewis starts everyday after the trade deadline. Roberts and Winn lose playing time.
- Nate Schierholtz is called up, and he becomes the fourth outfielder. Roberts and Winn lose playing time.
- Brian Horwitz takes over for Ryan Klesko after Klesko is traded. I know that is going to be an offensive downgrade, and I know Horwitz isn't ever going to have the bat for first, but he'd be interesting to watch. Good is out of reach. Interesting has a chance. Klesko's wild, powerless swings were fun to watch for about a month.
- Kevin Frandsen plays every day. He hasn't shown anything at the major league level, but if there's a 20% chance he'll improve, it ain't going to happen while he sits on the bench.
- Pedro Feliz goes away. Great game last night, Pedro. Now go away.
And thank you, Tim Lincecum. Thank you for being the copy of National Geographic in the dentist's waiting room. It means a lot.
Comment starter: What would make this team more interesting to you?
0 recs |
182 comments
Comments
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by orangeandblackattack on Jul 25, 2007 10:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by sfgfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by NearestNorwich on Jul 25, 2007 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Matthews/Maddox/Bonds, yeah, they were pretty exciting, plus don't forget Kingman hitting homers, cycles, grandslams as a 3B his first season, that was pretty exciting. Plus you can't forget John the Count Montefusco. Hard to compare with all that. But that was when the team was winning or recently winning. Most of them were gone by 75, and the OF trio only lasted two seasons together.
Herndon was exciting for exactly half a year or so, his first half year with us, I guess that memory lasted for you but I just remember my dashed hopes in comparison to the potential that first half portended. Clark was the only beacon of hope during those years for me, then we got that pile of crap from the Cards for him. But I would take Cain and Lincecum over Jack The Ripper Clark, I love the big strikeout pitchers like them and Montefusco.
I never found Chili to be that exciting, I guess all that talk about the next Willie Mays spoiled him for me. Plus he never hit for that high an average while with us nor that many homers.
Leonard, one flap down, Hac-man, was exciting. Garrelts I loved but found as exciting as an accountant. The only excitement I had with him was his near one-hitter, which I can still remember exactly were I was - in the middle of the parking lot of the Garlic Festival, swearing at the radio.
Krukow was always exciting, yes, then the addition of Clark and Thompson, then Williams and Mitchell soon afterward. But those were not really losing years, were they...
And I'll note again, most of these remembrances count 2-3 players of note, well, I find Cain, Lincecum, Lowry, Lewis, and Sanchez to be pretty exciting. Chili's first year: 100 OPS+. Herndon's first year: 95 OPS+ and that was his high point, essentially, with the Giants. Maddox: 103 OPS+. Even Jack Clark's first year: 84 OPS+, 102 AB, 2 HR, 10 RBI, .225/.277/.382/.659, not so exciting a first year or second year even, it was his third year before he came into his power.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I assumed you meant the trio of Bonds/Maddox/Matthews and Bonds was gone in 75.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by ToddLindenHasAPosse on Jul 25, 2007 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Jul 25, 2007 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BCsteve on Jul 25, 2007 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Kitspool on Jul 25, 2007 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I prefer him at 2B too, but if we can start him at 3B to get him ABs and regular starts, all the better. Durham is still cold and I think it's time to acknowledge that it is related to that groin problem he had in early May; they should just DL him for 2 weeks and let Frandsen start. Then with the long stretch of games, rest Durham twice a week, rest Feliz twice a week, rest Vizquel twice a week, and that's basically regular starts for Frandsen.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Trade suggestion: Atlanta looks like it needs help in the bullpen. How about Steve Kline and Kevin Correia for Kala Kaaihue and Brent Lillibridge? There's a short article about Kala in BA today.
by DrBGiantsfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I'd do that. The Braves wouldn't.
by Grant on Jul 25, 2007 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Grant on Jul 25, 2007 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody?
by DrBGiantsfan on Jul 25, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Anybody?
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Deborify #2: rest Bonds every other day, with Fred Lewis getting the spear-carrying role. Do not resign Bonds for next year under any circumstances. Lewis starts in LF next year, unless we trade for Balentien or better.
Deborify #3: trade any or all of Winn, Roberts, Klesko, Sweeney, Chulk, Correia, Hennessey, Kline, Feliz, Molina, or Vizquel for a good, young hitting prospect of the INF persuasion. Bring up said prospect in September. Mix well, serve when ready.
Oh, and I don't want Nate anywhere near this collection of players until they are mostly gone, or until September call-up time.
by Lyle on Jul 25, 2007 11:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by sfgfan on Jul 25, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Oh, yeah, and Tori Hunter accepting a 3-year contract in his big "show me the money" walk year, that's funny, too.
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way a 32 yr old Hunter takes a 3 year deal
by awesomer on Jul 25, 2007 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: No way a 32 yr old Hunter takes a 3 year deal
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ned Colletti has mastered the 3 year deals
by wilriv21 on Jul 25, 2007 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ned Colletti has mastered the 3 year deals
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
That lineup would be very interesting. As in, it would be interesting to see if I could die from having diarrhea. Howie No Like. Bad Medicine.
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
WOW.
by groug on Jul 25, 2007 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Evan on Jul 25, 2007 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by PacBellBoozer on Jul 25, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by orangeandblackattack on Jul 25, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by ololo3 on Jul 25, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 25, 2007 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Byrnes would be a huge, monumental downgrade from Bonds.
Eckstein would be a slight upgrade from Vizquel.
Yeah, I don't see replacing those three with those three suddenly making the Giants anything more but a 90 loss team again.
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Also, I just gotta know the secret to the math that makes (.275/.340/.357) x 50 = (.284/.350/.360)
by Roger on Jul 26, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
And if you added some RBI guys behind Bonds, he would get knocked in a lot more, too. You're not comparing Byrnes to Bonds, you're comparing Byrnes+Hunter+Guillen to Bonds+Roberts+Winn.
by EliminateMe on Jul 26, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
243/293/294
And Ecksteins
298/340/364
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 26, 2007 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 26, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Natto on Jul 26, 2007 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Interestingly, my theory that Dave Roberts is worht three times the typical player ("Dave" + "Robert" + "Robert" = "Dave Roberts") has been pretty tough to prove thus far.)
by Goofus on Jul 26, 2007 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2007 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 26, 2007 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SF Pete on Jul 25, 2007 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by someguynamedg on Jul 25, 2007 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hope doesn't necessarily come with youth.
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Jul 25, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Hope doesn't necessarily come with youth.
by JRPhillips on Jul 25, 2007 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Upside doesn't necessarily come with 25yr-old
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Jul 25, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but...
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Play said players you acquire immediately. Use Sanchez as a starter the rest of the year and whomever makes sense as the fifth starter, because it just doesn't matter. This season is over, trying to get back to 10 games under .500 should not be the goal.
by out machine on Jul 25, 2007 11:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
This team has had a special talent last couple years to be just good enough to stay close and rip your heart out at the end, nice to see they got some of that magic back last night.
by Stoned Slacker on Jul 25, 2007 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the marketing team should run with that
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Jul 25, 2007 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by ololo3 on Jul 25, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by TedWillamsbobblehead on Jul 25, 2007 11:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
2007 San Francisco Giants?
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: 2007 San Francisco Giants?
by MeSoKrabby on Jul 25, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: 2007 San Francisco Giants?
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Evan on Jul 25, 2007 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I would also note that Ponson previous to that year was pretty ordinary to bad, so his value was mainly for what he was doing that season, and like has been mentioned about Morris, while he's wasn't that good, he was the best of the bunch and thus well-sought after.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
(Or does that ruin the integrity of the game?)
by War on Jul 25, 2007 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Goofus on Jul 25, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by War on Jul 25, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by ololo3 on Jul 25, 2007 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Plus I like to enjoy my time at the ballpark. Traveling bands of skanks sort of sap my fun.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2007 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by War on Jul 25, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2007 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by WithTechron on Jul 25, 2007 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 26, 2007 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 25, 2007 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by PLUChris on Jul 25, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Mando back!
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Jul 25, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Anticon23 on Jul 25, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 12:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by ResDog on Jul 25, 2007 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
- Cammie and FP are flied to China...one way.
- Lowry and position player traded for a great young talent.
- Morris and another player traded for a good young talent.
- Durham, Feliz, Aurilia, Roberts, Vizquel traded for any type of young talent, but done moreso to clear up more $$ for FA.
- Sweeney, Klesko, Kline, Hennessey, Correia traded for young talent. These guys have more value and would likely bring back better young talent.
- Guillermo Rodriguez down, Justin Knoedler up.
- Frandsen plays 2B almost everyday after TD.
- Lewis goes to AAA, Schierholtz and Timpner up.
- Schierholtz and Timpner get PT with limited PT for Bonds, Winn and Roberts.
- Schierholtz learns 1B and puts on 15 lbs. of muscle.
- Sanchez down to AAA to become a starter with Misch.
- Ortiz up, starting role until Misch/Sanchez ready, then back to relief role.
- Wilson back up.
- Giese or Atchison can fill any holes.
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I'd be happy to unload Sweeney but I think you seriously overestimate his trade value putting him in the more-value group.
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I generally understand why you think I overestimate Sweeney's value, but it is hard to find a pinch hitter. As a pinch hitter he is: .262/.392/.524 so you might be underestimating his PH value. Look, I have been one that has been riding Mark all season long for underproducing, but he still has value for his specialty.
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by awesomer on Jul 25, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
.231/.324/.473
In 182 AB away from Cinci - 12 HR, 31 RBI and 63 SO.
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
STL: 1 HR
Interestingly he has 5 in PNC Park.
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Jul 25, 2007 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by groug on Jul 25, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
- Waste of air fare
- Chaya, right
- Chaya, right
- Won't get anyone with talent. Be lucky to dump $
- Most likely they would get you c-grade bullpen arms and 5th OFs. As an upside.
- Deck chairs
- OK, I give you this one.
- Whatev
- Why limit BB's playing time, he's the only hitter worth watching AT ALL
- Roids.
- I suppose
- I suppose
- Why?
- What about RF/3B/SS holes and all the guys we traded for "young talent"
by zenbitz on Jul 25, 2007 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
KNBR - This Morning - The Feliz love was overwhelming/sickening. A "Giants" fan called and said we should resign him and that he could learn better plate discipline. What year is it again? 2003? Feliz and his .289 OBP? Listen, all you Feliz lovers, I know you are out there. The only way you can get away with Feliz playing third is if you have a Bonds in the OF, a Kent at 2B and a Burks-esque 1B/OF. 3B is a POWER position, like 1B. Unless you're Brooks Robninson or J.T. Snow, you have to hit and by default, get on base. In the words of WFAN's Chris "Mad Dog" Russo, "PEDRO FELIZ!?!?!?!?!?!?!"
Bringing somebody else down to bring me up - Bobby Crosby - .270 OBP
by MeSoKrabby on Jul 25, 2007 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Call it luck, call it fate, but Sabean chose him when the 9 teams ahead of him had the same opportunity.
If that's luck, then Houston picking Berkman with the 17th pick is lucky, the players selected above him were not nearly as good, D-backs lucked in Upton at 15th because of Boras, he should have been #1 too, heck, then there's the A's with Huston Street, he was selected with the A's THIRD pick of the draft, there were all those teams in between those picks who could have selected Street before the A's finally got him. And what about selecting Hudson in the 7th round, he was over the 200th players selected that year, all those teams could have picked him before the A's got to him.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
It did occur to me this morning that when you take into account defense, Feliz may very well be the second best position player on the Giants this season. That tells you just about all you need to know about this year's team.
by Pants Man on Jul 25, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Thanks for putting my feelings into words. Pedro is a good guy with occasionally exciting power and great fielding who would make a welcome small piece of the puzzle on a team with six better starters. When he's number two or three, the team is in deep trouble and he's doomed to be a lightning rod for disappointment.
by NearestNorwich on Jul 25, 2007 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
As well, his contact rate (balls hit into play, i.e. minus strikeouts) is approximately 90% since May began, which is extraordinary for any hitter, a miracle for Feliz. My fantasy guide says that you want hitters with a contact rate of over 85%, Bonds contact rate last season was 86% and 82% this season.
And his BB/K ratio since May started is 19 BB/24 K, or 79%, which I would guess is probably double the best he's ever had in any month ever in his career. The best hitters have BB/K ratio of over 100% but 79% is pretty close, indicating how good that is for any batter.
All this after a very poor April for Feliz, as apparently he was absorbing his lessons of spring training when Bochy basically humiliated him by pitching BP to him and calling out situations like a little leaguer would get. May and June were not that great either, but he was walking more and striking out less, and now he's hitting .276/.364/.466/.829 for July.
That's good for a 3B, plus he's great defensively, Dewan's Fielding Bible says that Feliz is one of the top fielding 3B in the majors and the defensive stats that Baseball Musing publishes has had Feliz near the top every year for the past 2-3 seasons.
Also, he typically hits worse later in the season, at least in 2005 and 2006, 2004 was the only year as a regular player where his OPS was so high after May. Plus, his OBP is the highest for any month since Sept 2004, by a large margin, the only way he could get a high OBP was a high BA before.
Again, not saying that he is a changed hitter that's going to continue to be changed, but he's certainly been a different hitter than any time before in his career in terms of walks and strikeouts. And this could be on the low side for him, his career BABIP is .271 but he's only hitting .243 BABIP this season, so in theory, he could hit even better as his .243 rises closer to .271.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thank you, Bochy thanks you
by wilriv21 on Jul 25, 2007 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
1)

2)
Sign Paste:

3)
Sign Oscar Gamble:

4)
Create a new team, then do this:
D, R, L, D, D, R, U, A. Type: WHEN IT IS.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jul 25, 2007 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SF Pete on Jul 25, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by MeSoKrabby on Jul 25, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Memories...
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Jul 25, 2007 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by vivalancellotti on Jul 25, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Then again, we're probably talking about different things.
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by War on Jul 25, 2007 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2007 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by SF Pete on Jul 25, 2007 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by groug on Jul 25, 2007 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
outfielder in the Giants farm system. He doesnt have much power and has only above average speed so his ceiling is probably a 2 or 7 hitter but at this point I think he would be more productive in CF than Dave Roberts(my sister would too but whatever).
If the Giants trade Winn (they likely won't) It would be nice to have barry in left, clay timpner in CF, and Scheirholtz in RF.
by Frogger91w9 on Jul 25, 2007 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
The fact is that he is breaking out in his third year with a .344 avg and .401 obp. He doesn't hit for power and I don't think he has much speed. So realistically, he isn't even much of a 5th outfielder. He is another guy I would teach 1B to and have gain some weight.
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 25, 2007 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 25, 2007 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BawLa on Jul 26, 2007 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
As for power, I'm gonna say if Timpner never had any using aluminum bats in a fairly small college stadium, 15 more pounds of muscle isn't likely to give it to him.
by Roger on Jul 26, 2007 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Look, I know you don't just walk up to the kid and say, hey put on some weight dude. But you can talk to his agent and present the options. You tell him there is a logjam with these AAA outfielders that seem to be virtual clones. You say there are others ahead of him on the pecking order. You say if you want to increase your chances of getting called up quicker, and if you want to expand the potential of your career in general, then consider putting on some muscle and learning 1B. You say, we as the organization are here to help you accomplish this goal if you so choose. Let him decide if that is what he wants to do.
The fact is we have a hole at 1B that no one is stepping up to fill it..cough...Niekro...cough. And speaking of the devil look at Niekro - 6'3" 225 lbs. Clay Timpner - 6'2" 195 lbs. Not very hard to add 15 lbs. to that frame with a little hard work.
Clay Timpner may have a better baseball IQ and a better understanding of defensive positioning than Freddie Lewis, but Lewis' speed will always give him a higher ceiling for defensive capability. Lewis can learn positioning, he can learn routes, he can learn to read the ball. Clay would have to work out a shitload to get speedier. In his 2 years of minors baseball, Clay has stolen 22 bases and been caught 21 times. That is a success rate of about 50%. Not THAT fast, in other words. So again, I come full circle to my original rationale which was sacrificing some of his speed, to add weight to his frame.
Typically, Clay bats at the top of the lineup. He doesn't draw a ton of walks, and I just showed you that he doesn't have a ton of speed so why does he bat at the top of the lineup? Because he has good pitch recognition and he has a good swing. So lets work with that base, add some muscle to it, and see if he can turn some of his singles into doubles, doubles into homers. The subsequent increase in weight will make him slower and therefore fully justify moving to 1B.
by BawLa on Jul 26, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Roger on Jul 26, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I will grant that his walk rate has increased greatly, signaling some growth, but so did his strikeouts, though it is still pretty good, which it has been the past two seasons, very good in fact. Perhaps he has learned to swing at more pitches and get more hits that way, accepting more strikeouts, but also became better at pitch location, allowing him to draw more walks.
So there is some skill improvement involved for Timpner, but given how poorly his stats were previously, you have to take this season with a grain of salt relative to, say, how well Schierholtz has been hitting, that's how well he has hit before in the minors, he has a history of doing that. Same with Lewis.
Plus, this was Timpner's second season in AAA, so part of that is learning the pitchers in the league, and to his credit, he did, but major league pitchers are another creature, else there wouldn't be the creature known as the "AAAA" hitter (see Linden, Todd). So hold the applause until we see him do it in the majors, he has a lot of history to overcome, but who knows, maybe the light bulb went on.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Trade Morris. Trade Durham.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2007 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by vivalancellotti on Jul 25, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Grant on Jul 25, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 25, 2007 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jul 25, 2007 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Noonan went 3-3 with a walk and a triple!
I'm sorry... was there a major league club we were supposed to be discussing?
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
last time I checked he was leading their rookie league team in batting average(through 20-something games but whatever)
Its too bad that the Giants best talent is in high-A or below
by Frogger91w9 on Jul 25, 2007 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
he has one plus tool and thats his speed
but as far as hitting for average/power, and defensively hes just ok
by Frogger91w9 on Jul 25, 2007 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
I wonder if I'm right about that at all, and if I am I can always be optimistic that he can develop a power game.
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by Goofus on Jul 26, 2007 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First deal in the lead-up to the deadline made...
Scott Linebrink for Will Inman, Steve Garrison and Joe Thatcher
not a bad deal for the Padres... nor for the Brewers for that matter, if they get 2 picks out of Linebrink after the season.
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: First deal in the lead-up to the deadline made
by JakeS on Jul 25, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: First deal in the lead-up to the deadline made
Linebrink has slipped some this year and thats a lot to give up for him.
by xanthan on Jul 25, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deal makers
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Deal makers
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Deal makers
by Aadik on Jul 25, 2007 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Deal makers
HE'S STEVE KLINE!
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Deal makers
by Grant on Jul 25, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Deal makers
He's pretty okay.
by Pants Man on Jul 25, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: First deal in the lead-up to the deadline...
by Pants Man on Jul 25, 2007 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: First deal in the lead-up to the deadline
The only way this makes sense for the Padres is if they have a reliever who is lights out and could take over Linebrink's reduced performance in the setup spot. Wasn't Cla Meredith also scuffling too?
Then again, since they really like these three players, they've been pretty schrewd in their trades so that's in their favor as well.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 25, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: First deal in the lead-up to the deadline
by jponry on Jul 25, 2007 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Penguins...lots and lots of penguins. My wife and daughter love em. And definitely in their own little uniforms.
I think having the whole team come out once per game and dance to "YMCA" would be cool as well.
by otis29 on Jul 25, 2007 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or....
by Natto on Jul 25, 2007 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Or....
We may need a different song.
by otis29 on Jul 25, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by someguynamedg on Jul 25, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by someguynamedg on Jul 25, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by EliminateMe on Jul 25, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
What constitutes boring? Old players who suck and young players with no talent. I'm afraid that the options you present, play Lewis and Schierholtz more, won't really cure the suckness because, let's face it, those guys aren't any good.
What's the solution? If you're an optimist, wait 'till next year, if you're a realist, wait until Sabean gets canned.
by smedley on Jul 25, 2007 6:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
Also, did you notice how the Braves have been able to integrate young players into their lineups even the ones that aren't uber prospects. Wish the Giants could find a way to do this instead of extending the careers of outfileds who should now be pinch runners/hitters.
by Bring Back the Thrill on Jul 25, 2007 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ranting, but not raving
(funny reply = "who's in congress?")
by howtheyscored on Jul 25, 2007 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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