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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Trade Possibility: Durham?

by sfmaynard on Jul 2, 2007 5:54 PM PDT

This is from David Pinto over at baseballmusings.com (a great general MLB blog).

The Cleveland Indians are solid offensively at every position but second base. Barfield sports a .281 OBA coming into the game. That's bad even for a middle infielder. Now, with the strength of the rest of the team, the Indians can afford to let the young Barfield develop. But if they want a little extra oomph, maybe they can make a deal for Ray Durham? He's not having a great year, so his cost shouldn't be high. And maybe the Indians can send the Giants something they need, a young position player. Plus, moving Durham makes room for Kevin Frandsen, and make the team younger.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I have no idea what's going on in the heads of various GM's around the league, and I never pretend to as a rule, but I have to believe that for the duration of his contract Durham will be one of the pieces that we are looking to move.

He falls into what I think of as our movable pairs. There are a number of movable pairs on this team, only one member of each pair who is likely to be moved if a move within the pair is made, but almost definitely not both.

They look something like this:

[Morris:Lowry] [Winn:Roberts] [Aurilia:Klesko] [Durham:Vizquel]

If Vizquel is somehow packaged or (god forbid) DFA'd, Durham almost definitely goes nowhere, and vice versa. It's the same for each of these pairs. I think something is probably going to happen in the first two pairs that I list, even though I don't know where or for what. I think there's an alright chance something happens in that third pair, even if it's just an Aurilia DFA. And I don't feel too confident in either Vizquel or Durham going.

But they are one of my movable pairs, and I absolutely believe that somebody (Sabean) is making phone calls about them to somebody. Durham actually has pretty decent value, but his misleading defensive reputation, injury history, and underperformance might just scare people enough about the second year of this contract that nothing happens.

But if they don't want Barfield playing every day because of his performance, Durham is an interesting option. The two would likely split time (I assume), which would reduce Durham's likelihood of injury and probably benefit his production toward the end of the year because of rest.

But who knows? Other than the GMs involved. I have no idea. For all I know we're going to rape somebody's farm with the Ray Durham/Mark Sweeney blockbuster deal. For all I know Sabean's made 30 phone calls and had 30 hang ups after the word "Ray" (I don't know why he called and hung up on himself, but there's no explaining the BS).

We'll find out soon enough, anyway.

But I absolutely believe he's being shopped. And probably agressively, because in that particular pair there's almost no way I can see takers for Vizquel.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jul 2, 2007 6:15 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Just standing up for my adopted son...but get off the crack pipe will ya?

Ain't a chance in hell that Vizquel is DFA'd. Sure he's not having even an average year hitting, but DFA isn't something you do to a guy with his skill set. You might as well tell him to piss off royally and call him out as a hack singer, a cheap dresser, and can't dance for crap. Because right now, that's about the only thing you could say that would piss him off.

Omar Vizquel hates Joey Barton too. He's a wanker, mate!

by PacBellBoozer on Jul 2, 2007 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

To be fair, I did say "God forbid."

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jul 2, 2007 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I like how the article discussed making room for Frandsen. Yeah, that's the answer to all our problems.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Jul 2, 2007 6:26 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

But it makes us younger!!!!!!

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray - grounded for LIFE

by Natto on Jul 2, 2007 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Yeah, younger is good, but talented is better. ;)

Seriously, I've no problem with moving Ray, if the price is right. Same with Morris. I just don't think we are going to get very much and to get rid of guys just to get younger - and not more talented - makes no sense. The question is who in Cleveland do you think we can get, and does it make this team better?

by Sayhey on Jul 2, 2007 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I hope you knew I was being sarcastic. Anyway, I agree with you. If we get anyone who would help in the rebuilding process, then I'm all for it, although I'll miss him terribly. However, trading just to get younger (as the article says) doesn't really make much sense.

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray - grounded for LIFE

by Natto on Jul 2, 2007 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I thought you were. That's why the ";)"

by Sayhey on Jul 2, 2007 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Ah good. Lately it seems like people's sarcasm detectors have been buggy, so it's good to check.

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray - grounded for LIFE

by Natto on Jul 2, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

You know there's a .GIF for that particular affliction. I can write another prescription if you end up needing it.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jul 2, 2007 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I am aware of the existence of such a .gif. However, I have chosen not to acknowledge it. Also, I was too lazy to find it.

Barry Bombs gear | comics | Ray - grounded for LIFE

by Natto on Jul 2, 2007 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

where does "injured" fall on that scale?

The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 3, 2007 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Frandsen can hold the spot until the even younger Nick Noonan is ready. Noonan might be the real deal.

Randy Messenger: "Let's see Chris Young hit a game winning homerun on a 95mph heater headed for his noggin"

by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2007 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions

I would like to see Frandsen get playing time

With the 2007 season about over, I would like to see what Frandsen can do. I believe he could be a solid 2B and #2 hitter. Now would be a good time for him to get his close-up to see if indeed he can handle the job. If he cannot then SF knows this going into the winter and can look elsewhere for a 2B.

by wilriv21 on Jul 2, 2007 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions

+1

After watching him struggle at short those 2 games when Omar was out, I'm less optimistic than I was previously about his defense, but absolutely. Give him the opportunity to prove himself or to confirm that we're in the market for a 2B.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Jul 2, 2007 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I would like to see Frandsen get playing time

Even if you are right about the season, it makes no sense to get rid of Ray just to let Kevin have the job. Sitting Ray to let Kevin have a chance to prove himself might make some sense, but if we trade Durham I want someone who helps make this team better in return. Who is that?

by Sayhey on Jul 2, 2007 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Trades to make team better

A prerequisite for a trade would be that in the long run the team improves. In the case of Durham to Cleveland it has been mentioned Asdrubal Cabrera might be available. He could fill the gapping hole at SS in 2008 and beyond.

A team can improve by trading a vet and opening a spot for a younger talent, by freeing itself of contracts/monies so can look for other talent with those monies or trading a surplus for a need.

by wilriv21 on Jul 2, 2007 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trades to make team better

I like the Cabrera suggestion. I'm not sold yet on defensive skills of the Giants SS prospects and Cabrera could be the answer. I haven't seen him play, but I've got to like the reports.

I agree that opening a spot for a younger talent and freeing up money can help, but with Ray it needs to be much more than that. Someone should willing to give the Giants value for his bat.

by Sayhey on Jul 2, 2007 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trades to make team better

ehh, our defensive SS are better I think. Cabrera lacks speed and quickness that may/should limit him to second base. If only Burriss progressed like he should have. or bocock or something.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 2, 2007 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trades to make team better

What's your source on that? I've heard nothing but great things about Cabrera defensively throughout his minor league career.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 2, 2007 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trades to make team better

BA prospect handbook. so not entirely reliable. However they say: slick hands, but long actions and lack of a first step quickness.

maybe he's better this year? I definitely differ to you on this issue.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 2, 2007 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trades to make team better

*defer, not differ.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 2, 2007 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I wouldn't think the Indians would be interested. I doubt they have given up on Josh Barfield this quickly. Bringing in a Ray Durham signed through 2008 would not help him get going either. I like the trade somebody suggested of Ray Durham and Matt Morris to the Yankees for Robinson Cano. That franchise IS nuts enough to panic and make a trade like that.

Randy Messenger: "Let's see Chris Young hit a game winning homerun on a 95mph heater headed for his noggin"

by rxmeister on Jul 2, 2007 6:39 PM PDT reply actions

nooooooooooh

cano=overrated. straight up for durham i'd do it, but morris and/or lowry should bring back a load more than that. as for this trade, cleveland getting durham wouldn't mean giving up on barfield so much as giving him another chance to really develop. They're one of the few teams that really could have a use for Ray. I'm not saying we'll get Marte or Garko for him (at least not straight up), I'm just saying it's worth asking.

"Sportswriters: a rude and brainless sub-culture of fascist drunks" - hunter s thompson, former sportswriter

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 2, 2007 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: nooooooooooh

agree with cano being overrated. From the Tribe a Brian Barton or Wes Hodges sounds good in return. Even a Brad Snyder would be good. He profiles as Adam Dunn with better defense/speed and less power.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 2, 2007 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: nooooooooooh

Cano overrated?? What are you basing that on?? He hit .297 with 14 homers as a rookie, and .342 last year with 15 homers. With two solid years under his belt are you putting more stock into a bad half season?? And by "bad" he's still doing better than Ray Durham is. By the way, he's a year YOUNGER than Kevin Frandsen is.

Randy Messenger: "Let's see Chris Young hit a game winning homerun on a 95mph heater headed for his noggin"

by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2007 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: nooooooooooh

what I forgot to mention, and might be the most important factor is that by making this trade you clear Durham's 8 million and Morris' 9.5 million off of your payroll for 2008. Therefore, you are getting a player who isn't even arb eligible and 17.5 million to spend on free agents. That is an out and out heist. The desperate Yankees are the only team who would be willing to take on all of that salary without demanding you take a bad contract in return.

Randy Messenger: "Let's see Chris Young hit a game winning homerun on a 95mph heater headed for his noggin"

by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2007 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: nooooooooooh

Cano did have a great year last year but he never walks, never (18 BBs in 508 PA). All of his value is tied up in his ability to hit .350+ and with a BABIP of .359 in 2006 he was due for a regression.

This year his BABIP is a more human .311 and he's come back to earth.

by xanthan on Jul 3, 2007 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: nooooooooooh

Let me also add that I don't hate Cano or anything and hes young enough to work on that plate discipline. I'm just not sure if I would trade away something for him.

What's everyone else's opinion?

by xanthan on Jul 3, 2007 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Canooooooooooh

1300 major-league at-bats before the age of 25, hitting .300 with some pop? Bring it on. Maybe he'll improve the plate discipline and become a superstar, but if not, you're basically looking at Garrett Anderson as a second baseman. I'll take that.

by Evan on Jul 3, 2007 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Canooooooooooh

Like I said, it's Cano and 18 million dollars in free agent cash, not just Cano. That kind of money can buy you plenty.

Randy Messenger: "Let's see Chris Young hit a game winning homerun on a 95mph heater headed for his noggin"

by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2007 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Canooooooooooh

I also don't think Cano is going to be available.

The Yankees have made real push to beef up their minor league system and overall young talent. To my knowledge, they don't have anyone in their system that could take over 2B once Durham would hypothetically leave.

Morris and Durham won't land the Giants Cano, it just wont happen. Most consider Cashman to have control of the team now instead of the "Boss" and I don't think we'll see any panic trades this year or for awhile.

I think we sometimes overrate our players trade value.

by xanthan on Jul 3, 2007 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Canooooooooooh

Yes it can, but I believe those Free Agents can be sent to retrieve a more useful prospect. Unfortunately Cano is overrated because of that awesome year he had last year. Hackers don't learn patience, they're always hackers. Look the kid is good and would fit great with a bunch of other teams. But, in a lineup full of low-OBP guys, Cano does not fit with us. Besides, his value doesn't match his ability and Morris+Durham probably wouldn't bring him to SF.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 3, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

There is nobody on this roster not named Cain or Lincecum that I wouldn't trade. It would have to be a good package to deal Sanchez (who I prefer to Lowry) and a pretty good package to get Lowry, but anybody else can be sold off for anybody as far as I'm concerned. Look at it this way - we aren't winning this year, we aren't winning next year, so nobody under contract for only those years is of any real value to us.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 2, 2007 6:51 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I prefer dealing sanchy too.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 3, 2007 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I actually meant that I prefer keeping Sanchez - I like his future better than Lowry's. Keeping Lowry is a gamble - if he doesn't bring his walk rate down he's going to crash and burn. Sanchez at least strikes guys out, he can get away with walking more (although not as many as he has). He's also younger and cheaper.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 3, 2007 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I want to keep Sanchez too, he's just been dominant since his return from AAA.

by xanthan on Jul 3, 2007 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

he also has no real semblance of control in the majors. I mean the kid can be lights out, but way too often he rides too high through his delivery and leaves the ball up and over. He's still a huge boom or bust kind of pitcher to me.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 3, 2007 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Yeah, his control has been shoddy (better lately) but Lowry hasn't been stellar either (4.4 BB/9) and he is older, more expensive, and has less stuff. They are both big "boom or bust" types, Sanchez is just the better bet IMO. He also has significantly less trade value.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 3, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

It always looks to me like when Lowry walks a guy, it's more because he's nibbling and just missing than because he lacks complete control.

Sanchez looks less likely to know where a pitch is going.

Anyone agree?

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Jul 3, 2007 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Yeah, but that's also the difference between how Zito and Cain look to me, and I know which one I'd rather have. ;)

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 3, 2007 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. He's garbage.

by Punch Rockgroin on Jul 3, 2007 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

But there's no choice to make. We have all four. It's nice. I don't know why people are jumping to trade our cheap pitching? Yeah we need offense, but we'll just end up overspending for another Matt Morris or, god forbid, Bret Tomko. That doesn't sound too appealing to me.

Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. He's garbage.

by Punch Rockgroin on Jul 3, 2007 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

If Cleveland wanted Ray Durham, I'd ask for Asdrubal Cabrera. I think Grant mentioned trading for him a few weeks back. I think Durham has enough value to where we could grab the kid, and he's not even listed on the Indians' top 10 prospects list.

He's 22, and in AAA is hitting .338 with an OPS of .915, 21 SB, 7 HR and 41 RBI. Kid also has more walks than strikeouts (36:31). I'm sure they'd also be interested in Matty Mo.

Brian Anderson: generic name, unique talent.

by JT Jordan on Jul 2, 2007 7:13 PM PDT reply actions

yes plz

"Sportswriters: a rude and brainless sub-culture of fascist drunks" - hunter s thompson, former sportswriter

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 2, 2007 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Why in the world would Cleveland be willing to trade that much for Ray Durham?

by sharksrog on Jul 2, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

because they don't need him with Jhonny Peralta? and they really want to make a postseason push with this team (I can't blame them, Sabathia might be gone in a year).

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 2, 2007 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Sorry, that last sentence was out of place. I should clarify: I'm sure the Indians would be interested in Matt Morris, too.

Brian Anderson: generic name, unique talent.

by JT Jordan on Jul 2, 2007 7:15 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I would love to get Asdrubal Cabrera. The Indians can't fit him anywhere but he'd be of huge value to a team that might actually consider resigning Omar Vizquel and his .234/.287/.298 line.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 2, 2007 7:23 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

However, as Frandsen demonstrated last week in his feeble attempt to replace Dreamy at short, the runs that Omar saves at short with his defense should effectively add about 50 points to every category in his batting line. If Omar is playing short instead of Frandsen, we probably win the game Cain started vs the Padres.

by joebirdie3 on Jul 2, 2007 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Yeah, Omar is a very good defensive shortstop, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a miserable hitter. Frandsen isn't a ML shortstop though - this is true.

That's what makes Cabrera a good fit - in addition to being a capable hitter he's also a very good defender at shortstop.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 2, 2007 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I think Asdrubal Cabrera would be a great pickup, He is very young, and good defensively. And looking at his numbers this year(AA) he can hit a little too, and still only 21. Im not sure if they would give us him straight up for Durham, but if we where to package Durham and Morris, and get Cabrera and Rafael Perez in
return that would be great.

Rafale Perez would help our bullpen out a lot, the kid has a 94mph fastball with moment, and a real good slider, closer stuff. Basically we would be getting younger, improving our bullpen and freeing up money by getting rid of Morris. Im not sure if we are giving up to much though,And I know we need more position players , what do you guys think?

Forget trading the old guys, Sabean must go first!!!!

by ramirez415 on Jul 2, 2007 11:34 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I meant 94mph fastball with movement

Forget trading the old guys, Sabean must go first!!!!

by ramirez415 on Jul 2, 2007 11:45 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I'd do the Durham/Cabrera trade in a heartbeat. Here's my question: who would you add to Durham in an attempt to get Garko? Would you trade Ray and Lowry for Garko? Ray and Morris for Garko?

I don't think Cleveland would go for it, but if they'd trade us Garko and Cabrera, I'd give them Durham, Lowry/Morris (their choice), a minor leaguer not named Schierholtz, a 10-year supply of garlic fries, and just about anything else they wanted.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 3, 2007 6:48 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I think that's a little steep for the kid. Was he patient in the minors, because it doesn't look like he's walked a whole lot in the majors. I don't know, maybe take out the minor leaguer and add another ten years of garlic fries, maybe a sheboygan or two. That might make it sound better for me. just don't like trading away prospects from such a bleak farm system.

this is a split signature of solidarity for Palestine and the current Giants "team".

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jul 3, 2007 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I understand your concern about trading away prospects, but if we traded one (or even two) away for the likes of ACabrera and/or Garko, then wouldn't you say your minor league system had done its job? And, unlike when Sabean uses that logic to trade away bunches of young pitchers for veteran savvy, you aren't really gutting your farm system by trading just one young pitcher (although, granted I'd prefer it not be Romo, Sosa, or Matos).

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jul 3, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

I'm tired of watching Durham. His defense is average at best, he can run that well anymore and his hitting isn't going to get any better. Then again, that pretty much describes Frandsen. Of course, Frandsen doesn't cost millions of dollars and isn't as injury prone.

So, trade Durham while we still can and let Frandsen play and bring up Velez and see what he can do out there. Seriously, it won't hurt our playoff chances one bit!

The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 3, 2007 11:13 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

We were saying all these same things about Durham last year and he was doing about the same. After that, he took off like a bat out of hell. I think we'd be selling low right now.

Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Jul 3, 2007 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Of course, the difference is that Durham was really only cold in April last year. This year's slump has extended all the way to July...

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 3, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Bat out of hell

Durham took off like a bat out of hell after partnering with Bonds. Believe the timing coincided with the now infamous stroll by an open Sweeney locker. Just saying.

by wilriv21 on Jul 3, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions

And what in that locker kept bringing them back?

Chicks.

by Moggeee on Jul 3, 2007 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Trade Possibility: Durham?

Velez has been switched to centerfield, which makes me think he's a lousy second baseman. Come to think of it, I saw him in spring training, and he IS a lousy second baseman. Kevin Frandsen is a utility guy, pure and simple. He can start for a team that's loaded throughout the lineup, but if he takes Durham's place, we lose alot of power, and really don't gain anything.

Randy Messenger: "I don't care if Cincy is a bandbox. Nobody takes me deep"

by rxmeister on Jul 3, 2007 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions

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