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Sabean signed to two year extension with option

Read it and celebrate/weep (depends on your inclination):  http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070713&content_id=2084034&vke y=pr_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf

Oddly enough, the bottom part looks like what I wrote in some of the comment threads.  :^)

Star-divide

I understanding being upset over the way the last few seasons have gone, but to throw the baby out with the water when he has rebuilt the pitching staff seems extreme to me.  He had many years of success, then was hamstrung by lousy draft position due to that success and by poor free agent availability.

Whatever.  He's signed now so the banshees can wail now....

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Orioles West and all that. Sabean has this trading deadline and the next off-season to try to convince me he isn't the height of incompetence that he's shown over the last few years but I'm not holding my breath.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 13, 2007 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Sabean said that the Giants would remain open to making trades that would bring the team players such as outfielder Randy Winn or right-hander Livan Hernandez -- young yet proven veterans in their late 20s or early 30s who aren't saddled with enormous contracts.

Well , not yet , anyway...

Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does this mean we're buyers again?
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Jul 13, 2007 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Does this mean we're buyers again?
Short of it: No, not necessarily.  It may be the first glimpse at what Sabean is like in "selling" mode.

My question is: is it possible to buy AND sell?  If a team comes along that's shopping an almost-major-league-ready player, but only wants prospects in return, is that considered buying?  If so, is that a bad thing?

by sfgfan on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Does this mean we're buyers again?
can't wait for the David Weathers era to begin!
The Fringe was right.

by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See you on the roof
Two more years of this, possibly three? They really don't want to succeed, do they?
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 13, 2007 11:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: See you on the roof
Insert insanity definition of your choice here.
Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Hmm.. Accept more years of Sabean, or get over my hatred for the DH and Al Baseball and become and A's fan.  Tough call.
Tim Flannery? More like Tim Flattery!

by pme on Jul 13, 2007 11:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I always try to convince myself that that incompetence for competence trade is possible but I'm never able to do it. I don't understand why - I'm young and got into baseball late so I don't have the glory days - my earliest baseball memory is Game Six of the 2002 World Series. I'm a Giants fan because of geographic proximity for God's sake and I still can't make myself give it up.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't.
Ignorance is bliss , Jake...simply ignore the present and dwell on the richness of the Giants' past. Like the friggin' Fifties and Sixties....
Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The WayBack Boys
You go ahead and focus on the Fifties and Sixties.

I draw the line at the Forties: Bonds, Vizquel, Moises, Finley, Gallaraga....

by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I have a feeling we're going to be the joke of the NL for a few years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Jul 13, 2007 12:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Magowan believes in Mulligans, who knew?
The last three or four seasons didn't happen? Nobody is accountable anymore? When do the first rounders just drafted get signed?

Ok, now that I gotten that out of the way, let the Sabean II ERA begin. Lets see if the veterans first philosophy changes. Is we buyers or sellers?
C'mon Sabes show us what you got anymore.

by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 12:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wager
ObGiCom (or other Sabean backer) - I've got $20 says SF doesn't make the playoffs before 2010 (when Sabean will surely be extended again).  

One caveat - Either party can buy back the bet at two points in time: April 1, 2008 & April 1 2009 for $10 (this is because injuries or some kind of brilliant Arod signing might drastically change their fortunes)

Takers?

by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 12:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I will take that bet
Baseball is about pitching and defense. Sabean does understand this. Pitching is one strength the Giants have.

I take this bet and the monies can go the others fellas charity.

by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Yes, I will take that bet
Baseball is about money, and squeezing every last drop of on-field performance out of the payroll one's given. Sabean doesn't understand this well enough.
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2007 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Yes, I will take that bet
only half the game, son, and you still owe me that beer!  (I know you have made many offers to pay... I just kind of like holding it over your head).

I even forgot what the bet was.

by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True to my word
The bet was a beer, so that would be $25 to me and $20 to you - fair? The winner donates to the losers charity. We on?

by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Yes, I will take that bet
So , what are those wooden things the Giants intermittently pick up , wave fruitlessly , then put back down? What part of pitching and defense do THEY represent , hmmmmmmm?
Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
The guy in the middle of the diamond with the ball is called a pitcher, He throws to the guy with that wooden thingy, called a bat. The batter swings and either misses (good for pitcher) or hits it and the defense tries to get him out.

by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wager
I'm a Sabean supporter, but why would I take that bet?  Even money when the odds are really 1/5.  And it's not set up right.  Firing Sabes wouldn't get us to the post season in '08, either;  we could be there in '09, but '10 is more likely.  Now, I would take the bet if there were a better FA market, but that cupboard is bare, except for the remote possibility of A-Rod

by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wager

Odds are more like 1/4 (4 spots/16 teams) for an average team in the NL -- Per year. Bet is 2 years (I will pay if they make it this year) so actually they should have a 7/16ths chance of making it.

Since they have a payroll substantially above average, you should lay ME odds.

The buy out option could come in if ownership goes bughouse and cuts the payroll to $40M (or bumps it to $15

by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wager
Got no money to blow on bets, but that's kind of lame to allow a way to back out.  So if Sabean is smart (like I think he is and you don't think so), then you can back out?  No way.

I think there's a good chance they can make the playoffs from 2007 to 2009, so how about we bet this:  I have a blog and I will allow you to post what a stupid idiot I am and genius you are if no playoffs before 2010, I only ask that you keep the commentary appropriate for a family audience.  You can even take my avatar picture and draw all over it and I will post it with my post.

If I win, you can post here what a genius I am (I don't think you are an idiot) and you can compose that yourself too.

But no backouts: injuries or big signings, don't matter, them's the breaks, either Sabean does it or he doesn't.  Deal?

"I'm a Giant now" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wager
But I do that here!  Now!

by zenbitz on Jul 14, 2007 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wager
The chances of the Giants making the playoffs before the end of this decade are almost non-existent IMO.  The pitching could do it, but without Bonds, the Giants are a 600-650 run per season team.  How are they going to have an effective offense before Angel Villalona has enough time to get to SF?

by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2007 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension
You might be smart, Wilriv, because SDs dominance has been just that, pitching, and they are, HORRORS, getting old, so Wells, Maddux, Hoffman + Cameron, Cruz, Giles will be in decline soon.

by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 12:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension
I don't know about that, the Padres' offense has been pretty solid once you account for their home park. They've ranked 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in runs scored on the road the last three seasons.
Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean
Once again weighing in on the bright side let me say he made one deal this year and it was a steal. Randy Messenger for Armando Benitez. Randy is 25 and will be here for quite a while, and it was a minor miracle that he got anything substantial for that piece of crap. Maybe it's the start of a roll!!
Randy Messenger: "I don't care if Cincy is a bandbox. Nobody takes me deep"

by rxmeister on Jul 13, 2007 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean
Well, the Giants had to pay for Benitez's contract so you can say they paid $5-6M to acquire the services of a middle reliever.

by War on Jul 13, 2007 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean
The money was already gone so it doesn't factor into this, it is a sunk cost (accounting term).  Which do you prefer:  having Randy Messenger for this season and going forward or having Benitez for the rest of the season?
"I'm a Giant now" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean
Well, if I accept your assumption that Benitez's contract was a sunk cost then yes, Sabean did good.  But I don't know if that assumption is necessary valid.  Maybe some team out there would have been willing to give us a middle reliever and absorb $1 or $2M from the contract.

Of course, the only GM I can think of who would do something that stupid... is Brian Sabean himself (see Shea Hillebrand for Jeremy Accardo trade of 2006).  Sigh.

by War on Jul 13, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean
I think you are overrating Randy, Mark.  He's nowhere NEAR as good as his low-two's ERA indicates.

by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2007 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
"He had many years of success, then was hamstrung by lousy draft position due to that success and by poor free agent availability."

You know what they say about excuses don't you?  They're like assholes...everyone has one.

Fuck Brian Sabean and his contract extension.  

Omar Vizquel to Big Sam, "Barton, Viduka, Rozenhal, Geremi, Deco even?...way to go Gaffer, keep up the great work!"

by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 1:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
"Sabean owns the ninth-highest winning percentage (.544, 927-777) among all general managers since 1950."

This seems like more than just marginal success.  What, you want someone in the top 5?  Who are they?

And, PB, realistic explanations aren't excuses.

by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio

I estimate that Bonds has contributed at least 200 wins ABOVE AVERAGE to that total.  

It's hard to find current totals by year for something like win shares - but one site puts him at 34.5/648 PA, 8175 PAs as a Giant = 435 Win Shares.

He has 666 win/shares through 2005, so we are talking >450 as a giant by proportion of RC (that 34.5 includes the "lean" years as a pirate)

so, minus bonds I think we can safely say Sabean can run a .500 team.  Maybe.

He has about 1900 RC as a giant, so ignoring his baserunning and defense (which you know was excellent for many years), I get a low ball number of +190 wins. Which puts Sabean at 737-777 - which is pretty impressive since no one is out there playing left fields, so I would expect allot of triples.

by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
The Giants wouldn't have fared nearly as well without Barry as they have WITH him, but I highly doubt the difference would be 200 games over the past 10 1/2 seasons.

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Ok...so he was successful, I'll give you that.  But I'm sick of his shit and think that a breath of fresh air would be great for the club.

Secondly, wordplay will get you nowhere with me.  Of those that would like to see him stay, I've seen nothing but a list of excuses...nothing but a list of shit that Brian shouldn't be held accountable for.  Well you know what boy's and girls, sometimes the guy getting all the glory when things go right, is the very guy who must take the blame when they go bad.  That's the rules of the game...always has been, always will be.

Blaming Magowan, the players, or the circumstances is nothing but making excuses for this crap he's assembled.  Is it Pedro's fault that he can't hit for shit and looks like he's primed for another second half collapse.  Nope...he's shown an inability or unwillingness to fix his weak spots in his game, and his next to nil growth didn't garner a new contract last off-season.  Why the hell did we offer this guy a new deal then?  Want to make a bet on him being offered another one this year if we don't persue A-Rod?  I can see it already, "Well fans/media types...A-Rod wanted too much, we overspent on Zito, so we decided to bring Hacking Petey back, besides, he really wants to be here.

Like Armando, my opinion of our GM took a big hit the second he tried shifting blame on others.  Ohhhhhh...the fans made me do it, the media made me do it...they made me dump Benitez for a relatively unknown Marlin reliever.  TOUGH SHIT SABEAN!  Do your effing job, just like us commoners do, and do it without making excuses for your actions.

Omar Vizquel to Big Sam, "Barton, Viduka, Rozenhal, Geremi, Deco even?...way to go Gaffer, keep up the great work!"

by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I think many if not most GM's could be well above .500 with Barry Bonds as their base over the past 11 seasons.  And we shouldn't forget that Brian didn't sign Barry (although he did RE-sign him more than once); he INHERITED Barry.

I prefer EITHER Dan Evans of Paul DePodesta to Brian, and I would bet there are another half dozen or so people I would prefer if I knew all the candidates and their qualifications.

I hope to be wrong, but I am NOT happy with the re-signing of Brian Sabean.

The ironic thing is that Peter Magowan said he would review the Giants progress after the end of the season.  Just does how does being 11 games under .500 qualify as progress?

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I would hate to be your child:  "What?  You peed in your pants again!?!  What's wrong with you, there's no excuse!?!"
"I'm a Giant now" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Comparing Sabean to a child pissing their pants, while poetic, isn't what I was doing.
Omar Vizquel to Big Sam, "Barton, Viduka, Rozenhal, Geremi, Deco even?...way to go Gaffer, keep up the great work!"

by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It isn't?
Well, then I will.

Brian Sabean is just like a child pissing his pants.

Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Jul 13, 2007 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Local Flavor
Surely you must mean he's like a child pissing on his pants man.

by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Local Flavor
Unfortunately, the past few years if Brian had tried to pee his pants, he likely would have missed.  :)

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I am OK with the signing if the ownership group doesn't meddle as much as they have in the past especially the mandate of trying to build around Bonds the past few years. When Bonds was hurt for most of 2005 it was a team with out its main player. If Alou had been healthy last year we may have done something, but, the team was designed for today and today is about up and done for the Giants.
  A new GM would have same problems as Sabean will have in reloading the farm system. it takes time and patience to do it correctly.
  Now if only Sabean would actually set foot in Grizzlies Stadium to see his AAA team live for once that would be something...
Father of Adopted son Clay Timpner

by Andy In Fresno on Jul 13, 2007 1:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sigh.
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Jul 13, 2007 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ring, ring
"Wayne, this is Brian. What do you want for Conine?"

by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ring, ring
Lowry and Sanchez?  Done.

by Sandor Clegane on Jul 13, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tense negotiations -- and then a breakthrough
"Mr. Magowan, I've stood alone in the corner of the empty stadium for three hours, like you requested. Can I have my job back now?"

by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Ring, ring
Let's see which direction Brian goes now.  I'm NOT happy about his being re-signed, but I'm not dumb enough to think he will continue to sign old players unless they are VERY good.

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Good lord.  I'll see you all in 2010/11.

by BenboC on Jul 13, 2007 4:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
when Sabean gets another extension??
Randy Messenger: "Can I start on Sunday against Brett Tomko?"

by rxmeister on Jul 14, 2007 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll be there.
And friggin' Pedro will , too...
Barry Zito: Not an embarrassment of riches , but a rich embarrassment.

by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I can't muster strong feelings one way or the other about Sabean. I understand the logic of most of the moves -- I wouldn't have resigned Pedro or paid that much for Zito and I foresaw Benitez would be a disaster from listening to too many Mets games but any complaints I have about the rest of it is Monday morning quarterbacking. Nor is it clear how much freedom he had on the big moves. I sort of envy those of you who are so sure that he's a big part of the problem.

by NearestNorwich on Jul 13, 2007 8:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why this might not be a terrible move.
Assuming that Magowan is sane and reasonably perceptive one should guess there is a reason that he re-signed Sabean even before he needed to.  

It's clear to everyone looking at the Giants organization that the Giants made some wrong moves in the offseason, most particularly the insane contract for Barry Zito, but also 3 years for the aging Dave Roberts and also the Bengie Molina contract.  These were mistakes.  

Had Sabean been the one to push these contracts along with the current direction of the team, then I don't believe Magowan would have reupped him, especially for up to 3 years.  Sabean would have led the team into the ground and been dismissed.  

However I now believe Sabean has been telling managemen that the team needed to change directions.  And I think Magowan has finally concluded that the jig is up, the time to rebuild is here.  

It's unusual for the contract to be concluded at this time.  The trading deadline is drawing nearer and for the first time in recent history the Gmen will be sellers.  I would guess that Sabean was finding it hard to negotiate trades because of the insecurity of his job so this explains the timing of the contract.  

I'm looking for the Giants to be aggressive sellers at the deadline.  Maybe it will not net us much but I'm guessing Sabean's going to try hard to move Morris, Klesko, and Durham in exchange for young prospects.  

This is all conjecture.  It could be that Magowan & Co want to stock up with new veterans and stick with business as usual.  But I really hope they have something different in mind.    

Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Jul 13, 2007 8:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I agree with you 100% about the change in direction. Just because they stuck with this "signing mediocre aging veterans to backloaded deals" routine too long doesn't mean they'll stick with it forever.

That said, I'm skeptical about how well they'll implement thus change in direction. We'll see.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jul 13, 2007 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
obsessive is so wrong in his analysis, it aint funny

rebuilt the pitching staff??????

the man has drafted pitchers almost exclusively in the first round for 11 years....11 motherfucking years....if he didnt get at least some right, that would have been worse than pathetic

is sabean gonna get 11 years of 100 loss teams in order to rebuild his offense??

the man wasnt hamstrung when he made the awful aj trade, which has reprucussions into this season

and read his online chat again in regards to why he didnt pursue vlad.....because he wouldnt be able to sign players who now are no longer with the org, or are totally out of baseball

remember, we aint talking one bad season, we are talking about 3 in a row

when this team is in the cellar again next season....what will you say then??

 

by bacci40 on Jul 13, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
For some reason I was sure there was an "apple cellar" joke for me to make there, but that might have just been the wine talking...
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Jul 13, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
The Giants have lost 100 games in a season only once in their entire HISTORY.  That came in 1985, a dozen years before Brian Sabean's tenure.

I think those who believe Brian has done a good job over the past four and a half seasons are naive, but I don't think it serves to talk of Jeff Conine and 100-loss seasons.

Just sticking with the facts is plenty harmful enough to Brian's reputation IMO.

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
Everyone knows this team wont be good next year no matter who we have as a GM(unless we get a-rod).  And if you dont think he rebuilt the pitching staff then you're an idiot

by SabeanSupporter on Jul 14, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I don't see the Molina contract as a mistake, how could you?? How bad would we be with G.Rod as the everyday catcher?? The Zito signing was Magowan's baby, not Sabean's. That leaves the Roberts signing,and this one kind of bugs me. How could you have watched the Giants play 162 games last year and then decide that the team's biggest need was a base stealing centerfielder?? If you do determine that centerfield is a big problem, than the Dave Roberts signing is not a bad one, but that was hardly the Giants' biggest need. Winn was not a great centerfielder but he could handle the position, and Fred Lewis has shown everyone that he is a viable option there too. The Giants' needed to replace the clutch RBI bat of Moises Alou, not bring in another powerless outfield candidate. The Brewers wanted Roberts as badly as the Giants did, but their GM was RIGHT to want Roberts. Their lineup has power from top to bottom and could have used Roberts as a sparkplug at the top of the order. For the Giants, he made no sense. If Sabean was the one who identified Roberts or even worse, Juan Pierre, as players the Giants' needed, his bosses should have a serious problem with him.
Randy Messenger: "Can I start on Sunday against Brett Tomko?"

by rxmeister on Jul 14, 2007 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I just thought of something.  I know Brian takes a great deal of pride in his work, which is of course a plus.  If Brian made all the decisions the past four and a half years, why would the Giants want him back?  And if he didn't make them all and had his hands tied, why would HE want to return?

I guess the likely answer is that the Giants upper management took enough personal responsibility for the Giants situation to rehire Brian, presumedly with his hands less tied.

So what do we know about Brian for sure?

It would seem he doesn't have his hands tied with regard to drafting, otherwise signing and then developing young players.  That hasn't been a total wipeout for the Giants during Brian's administration, but it hasn't been particularly good, either.

Peter Magowan pointed to all the pitchers (21) developed by the Giants that are in other organizations.  But he didn't mention two things:

First, as a group, those pitchers aren't all that good.

And second, the two best -- Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano -- were traded by Brian for a player Brian then gave up with no compensation a year later.

One can make excuses for Brian.  But many of the excuses themselves (such as that he's been forced to go with older players) themselves demonstrate other problems (in this case, that the Giants have yet to sign and develop a good major league hitter under Brian's drafting -- in 11 years!).

And I really like the idea that Brian's overall body of work has been good, so why should we (the Giants) get rid of him just because he's in the midst of a four-and-a-half year slump with no end in sight?

Yes, one could argue that Brian has begun to do a better job with regard to young players.  But that itself raises the question of why it took him so long to adjust.

It appears to me that the signings of Tim Lincecum and Angel Villalona last summer and the hoped-for promising draft a month ago saved Brian's job.

And I have to give Brian credit for one thing.  He appears to be accepting responsibility for his mistakes.  I merely wish he didn't have so much responsibility to accept.  :)

by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
Sharksrog, you're normally a very knowledgeable poster, but how can you claim Sabean is "in the midst of a 4 1/2 year slump?  We won 100 games 4 years ago, and 91, finsihing 2 games out 3 years ago.
  I would also challenge the idea that Sabean is the root cause of the results of '05 and '06.  The team was without its best and primary hitter as well as its closer in addition to other significant injuries during that season.  '06 only offered half a Bonds, half an Alou, an injury recovering closer (who never regained his pre-injury form), and the early season loss of the starting catcher.
  I can buy that people disagree with his strategies and would prefer their own, but to claim that he is the primary cause of the poor results the past 2 years is inaccurate and more emotion driven than factually driven.  Not that one cannot cherry pick certain facts, ignore others, and "support" their preference, but it is still inaccurate.

by allfrank on Jul 14, 2007 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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