Sabean signed to two year extension with option
Read it and celebrate/weep (depends on your inclination): http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070713&content_id=2084034&vke y=pr_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf
Oddly enough, the bottom part looks like what I wrote in some of the comment threads. :^)
I understanding being upset over the way the last few seasons have gone, but to throw the baby out with the water when he has rebuilt the pitching staff seems extreme to me. He had many years of success, then was hamstrung by lousy draft position due to that success and by poor free agent availability.
Whatever. He's signed now so the banshees can wail now....
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63 comments
Comments
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by JakeS on Jul 13, 2007 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Well , not yet , anyway...
by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this mean we're buyers again?
by delorean on Jul 13, 2007 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Does this mean we're buyers again?
My question is: is it possible to buy AND sell? If a team comes along that's shopping an almost-major-league-ready player, but only wants prospects in return, is that considered buying? If so, is that a bad thing?
by sfgfan on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Does this mean we're buyers again?
by nostocksjustbonds on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See you on the roof
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jul 13, 2007 11:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: See you on the roof
by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by pme on Jul 13, 2007 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by JakeS on Jul 13, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't.
by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The WayBack Boys
I draw the line at the Forties: Bonds, Vizquel, Moises, Finley, Gallaraga....
by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by jponry on Jul 13, 2007 12:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Magowan believes in Mulligans, who knew?
Ok, now that I gotten that out of the way, let the Sabean II ERA begin. Lets see if the veterans first philosophy changes. Is we buyers or sellers?
C'mon Sabes show us what you got anymore.
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wager
One caveat - Either party can buy back the bet at two points in time: April 1, 2008 & April 1 2009 for $10 (this is because injuries or some kind of brilliant Arod signing might drastically change their fortunes)
Takers?
by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 12:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I will take that bet
I take this bet and the monies can go the others fellas charity.
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Yes, I will take that bet
by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2007 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Yes, I will take that bet
I even forgot what the bet was.
by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True to my word
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Yes, I will take that bet
by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Wager
by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Wager
Odds are more like 1/4 (4 spots/16 teams) for an average team in the NL -- Per year. Bet is 2 years (I will pay if they make it this year) so actually they should have a 7/16ths chance of making it.
Since they have a payroll substantially above average, you should lay ME odds.
The buy out option could come in if ownership goes bughouse and cuts the payroll to $40M (or bumps it to $15
by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Wager
I think there's a good chance they can make the playoffs from 2007 to 2009, so how about we bet this: I have a blog and I will allow you to post what a stupid idiot I am and genius you are if no playoffs before 2010, I only ask that you keep the commentary appropriate for a family audience. You can even take my avatar picture and draw all over it and I will post it with my post.
If I win, you can post here what a genius I am (I don't think you are an idiot) and you can compose that yourself too.
But no backouts: injuries or big signings, don't matter, them's the breaks, either Sabean does it or he doesn't. Deal?
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Wager
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2007 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension
by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension
by Bhaakon on Jul 13, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean
by rxmeister on Jul 13, 2007 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean
by War on Jul 13, 2007 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean
Of course, the only GM I can think of who would do something that stupid... is Brian Sabean himself (see Shea Hillebrand for Jeremy Accardo trade of 2006). Sigh.
by War on Jul 13, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean
by sharksrog on Jul 13, 2007 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension
by English Professor on Jul 13, 2007 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
You know what they say about excuses don't you? They're like assholes...everyone has one.
Fuck Brian Sabean and his contract extension.
by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
This seems like more than just marginal success. What, you want someone in the top 5? Who are they?
And, PB, realistic explanations aren't excuses.
by allfrank on Jul 13, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I estimate that Bonds has contributed at least 200 wins ABOVE AVERAGE to that total.
It's hard to find current totals by year for something like win shares - but one site puts him at 34.5/648 PA, 8175 PAs as a Giant = 435 Win Shares.
He has 666 win/shares through 2005, so we are talking >450 as a giant by proportion of RC (that 34.5 includes the "lean" years as a pirate)
so, minus bonds I think we can safely say Sabean can run a .500 team. Maybe.
He has about 1900 RC as a giant, so ignoring his baserunning and defense (which you know was excellent for many years), I get a low ball number of +190 wins. Which puts Sabean at 737-777 - which is pretty impressive since no one is out there playing left fields, so I would expect allot of triples.
by zenbitz on Jul 13, 2007 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
Secondly, wordplay will get you nowhere with me. Of those that would like to see him stay, I've seen nothing but a list of excuses...nothing but a list of shit that Brian shouldn't be held accountable for. Well you know what boy's and girls, sometimes the guy getting all the glory when things go right, is the very guy who must take the blame when they go bad. That's the rules of the game...always has been, always will be.
Blaming Magowan, the players, or the circumstances is nothing but making excuses for this crap he's assembled. Is it Pedro's fault that he can't hit for shit and looks like he's primed for another second half collapse. Nope...he's shown an inability or unwillingness to fix his weak spots in his game, and his next to nil growth didn't garner a new contract last off-season. Why the hell did we offer this guy a new deal then? Want to make a bet on him being offered another one this year if we don't persue A-Rod? I can see it already, "Well fans/media types...A-Rod wanted too much, we overspent on Zito, so we decided to bring Hacking Petey back, besides, he really wants to be here.
Like Armando, my opinion of our GM took a big hit the second he tried shifting blame on others. Ohhhhhh...the fans made me do it, the media made me do it...they made me dump Benitez for a relatively unknown Marlin reliever. TOUGH SHIT SABEAN! Do your effing job, just like us commoners do, and do it without making excuses for your actions.
by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
I prefer EITHER Dan Evans of Paul DePodesta to Brian, and I would bet there are another half dozen or so people I would prefer if I knew all the candidates and their qualifications.
I hope to be wrong, but I am NOT happy with the re-signing of Brian Sabean.
The ironic thing is that Peter Magowan said he would review the Giants progress after the end of the season. Just does how does being 11 games under .500 qualify as progress?
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jul 13, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by PacBellBoozer on Jul 13, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't?
Brian Sabean is just like a child pissing his pants.
by groug on Jul 13, 2007 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Local Flavor
by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Local Flavor
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
A new GM would have same problems as Sabean will have in reloading the farm system. it takes time and patience to do it correctly.
Now if only Sabean would actually set foot in Grizzlies Stadium to see his AAA team live for once that would be something...
by Andy In Fresno on Jul 13, 2007 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ring, ring
by wilriv21 on Jul 13, 2007 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ring, ring
by Sandor Clegane on Jul 13, 2007 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tense negotiations -- and then a breakthrough
by Moggeee on Jul 13, 2007 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ring, ring
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by BenboC on Jul 13, 2007 4:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by rxmeister on Jul 14, 2007 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll be there.
by victor frankenstein on Jul 13, 2007 7:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sabean signed to two year extension with optio
by NearestNorwich on Jul 13, 2007 8:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why this might not be a terrible move.
It's clear to everyone looking at the Giants organization that the Giants made some wrong moves in the offseason, most particularly the insane contract for Barry Zito, but also 3 years for the aging Dave Roberts and also the Bengie Molina contract. These were mistakes.
Had Sabean been the one to push these contracts along with the current direction of the team, then I don't believe Magowan would have reupped him, especially for up to 3 years. Sabean would have led the team into the ground and been dismissed.
However I now believe Sabean has been telling managemen that the team needed to change directions. And I think Magowan has finally concluded that the jig is up, the time to rebuild is here.
It's unusual for the contract to be concluded at this time. The trading deadline is drawing nearer and for the first time in recent history the Gmen will be sellers. I would guess that Sabean was finding it hard to negotiate trades because of the insecurity of his job so this explains the timing of the contract.
I'm looking for the Giants to be aggressive sellers at the deadline. Maybe it will not net us much but I'm guessing Sabean's going to try hard to move Morris, Klesko, and Durham in exchange for young prospects.
This is all conjecture. It could be that Magowan & Co want to stock up with new veterans and stick with business as usual. But I really hope they have something different in mind.
by orangeandblackattack on Jul 13, 2007 8:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
That said, I'm skeptical about how well they'll implement thus change in direction. We'll see.
by Pants Man on Jul 13, 2007 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
rebuilt the pitching staff??????
the man has drafted pitchers almost exclusively in the first round for 11 years....11 motherfucking years....if he didnt get at least some right, that would have been worse than pathetic
is sabean gonna get 11 years of 100 loss teams in order to rebuild his offense??
the man wasnt hamstrung when he made the awful aj trade, which has reprucussions into this season
and read his online chat again in regards to why he didnt pursue vlad.....because he wouldnt be able to sign players who now are no longer with the org, or are totally out of baseball
remember, we aint talking one bad season, we are talking about 3 in a row
when this team is in the cellar again next season....what will you say then??
by bacci40 on Jul 13, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
by howtheyscored on Jul 13, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I think those who believe Brian has done a good job over the past four and a half seasons are naive, but I don't think it serves to talk of Jeff Conine and 100-loss seasons.
Just sticking with the facts is plenty harmful enough to Brian's reputation IMO.
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
by SabeanSupporter on Jul 14, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
by rxmeister on Jul 14, 2007 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I guess the likely answer is that the Giants upper management took enough personal responsibility for the Giants situation to rehire Brian, presumedly with his hands less tied.
So what do we know about Brian for sure?
It would seem he doesn't have his hands tied with regard to drafting, otherwise signing and then developing young players. That hasn't been a total wipeout for the Giants during Brian's administration, but it hasn't been particularly good, either.
Peter Magowan pointed to all the pitchers (21) developed by the Giants that are in other organizations. But he didn't mention two things:
First, as a group, those pitchers aren't all that good.
And second, the two best -- Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano -- were traded by Brian for a player Brian then gave up with no compensation a year later.
One can make excuses for Brian. But many of the excuses themselves (such as that he's been forced to go with older players) themselves demonstrate other problems (in this case, that the Giants have yet to sign and develop a good major league hitter under Brian's drafting -- in 11 years!).
And I really like the idea that Brian's overall body of work has been good, so why should we (the Giants) get rid of him just because he's in the midst of a four-and-a-half year slump with no end in sight?
Yes, one could argue that Brian has begun to do a better job with regard to young players. But that itself raises the question of why it took him so long to adjust.
It appears to me that the signings of Tim Lincecum and Angel Villalona last summer and the hoped-for promising draft a month ago saved Brian's job.
And I have to give Brian credit for one thing. He appears to be accepting responsibility for his mistakes. I merely wish he didn't have so much responsibility to accept. :)
by sharksrog on Jul 14, 2007 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Why this might not be a terrible move.
I would also challenge the idea that Sabean is the root cause of the results of '05 and '06. The team was without its best and primary hitter as well as its closer in addition to other significant injuries during that season. '06 only offered half a Bonds, half an Alou, an injury recovering closer (who never regained his pre-injury form), and the early season loss of the starting catcher.
I can buy that people disagree with his strategies and would prefer their own, but to claim that he is the primary cause of the poor results the past 2 years is inaccurate and more emotion driven than factually driven. Not that one cannot cherry pick certain facts, ignore others, and "support" their preference, but it is still inaccurate.
by allfrank on Jul 14, 2007 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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