Some Giants Draft History
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 6:58 AM PDT
62 comments
With the draft coming up, I thought I would take a look at the draft history of the Giants from 1985-2003 through three general managers: Al Rosen, Bob Quinn, and Brian Sabean.
I put together a list of the notable players taken each year, the Giants' first-round draft picks (including sandwich picks), and some notes about the draft and players that we missed out on. Here we go:
Al Rosen, 1985-1992
1985:
Will Clark (1st Round)
Jeff Brantley (6th)
Trevor Wilson (8th)
Dennis Cook (18th)
First Round: Will Clark (2nd pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Barry Bonds, Pirates (6th pick)
Notes: this was a great draft: Four guys who stayed in the majors, including a superstar.
1986:
Matt Williams (1st)
Kirt Manwaring (2nd)
First Round: Matt Williams (3rd pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Gary Sheffield, Brewers (6th pick)
Note: 6 more guys made the majors from this draft, but none had much of a career. It helps when you draft so high: Williams was the 3rd overall pick after getting Clark 2nd in 1985.
1987:
Mike Remlinger (1st)
Mike Benjamin (3rd)
Gil Heredia (9th)
First Round: Mike Remlinger (16th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Ken Griffey Jr, Mariners (1st overall pick) (Honorable Mention: Craig Biggio, Astros (22nd pick)
Notes: Remlinger was a good pitcher for a long time, Heredia was a serviceable starter for a while. Mike Benjamin wasn't great, but he was in the majors for quite some time, which is something.
1988:
First Round: Royce Clayton (1st, 15th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Robin Ventura, White Sox (10th pick)
Notes: That's it. 6 more guys made the majors, none were any good. To be fair, this wasn't a great draft year.
1989:
Pat Rapp (15th)
First Round: Steve Hosey (14th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Frank Thomas, White Sox (7th pick)
Notes: terrible draft. Pat Rapp wasn't even very good.
1990:
Mike Myers (4th) (later lost in Rule 5 draft)
First Round: Adam Hyzdu (15th pick), Eric Christopherson (19th pick), Marcus Jensen (33rd pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Chipper Jones, Braves (1st overall pick)
Notes: yet another terrible draft. Jeromy Burnitz, Mike Mussina, Steve Karsay, and Rondell White were all taken after Hyzdu, all but Burnitz after Christopherson. You can really see the groundwork being laid for the 1994-1996 struggles.
1991:
William Van Landingham (5th)
First Round: Steve Whitaker (33rd pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Manny Ramirez, Indians (13th pick)
Worst Player Drafted in First Round: Brien Taylor, Yankees (1st overall, total bust)
Notes: with no pick until 33, and no 2nd or 3rd round pick, not much of a chance in this draft. Giant-killer Bobby Jones was taken 3 picks after Whitaker; Scott Hatteberg was 43rd
1992:
Marvin Benard (50th!!)
Aaron Fultz (6th)
Doug Mirabelli (5th)
First Round: Calvin Murray (7th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Derek Jeter, Yankees (6th - one pick before Giants)
Notes: Not bad to get value from lower (and 50th) round picks. Calvin Murray was taken before first-rounders Preston Wilson, Michael Tucker, Shannon Stewart, Rick Helling, Jason Kendall, Charles Johnson, and Johnny Damon.
Notes: The last gasp for Al Rosen - despite getting Will Clark and Matt Williams (as 2nd and 3rd overall picks), Rosen didn't draft particularly well, did he?
Bob Quinn, 1993-1996
1993:
Bill Mueller (15th round)
Chris Singleton (2nd)
First Round: Steve Soderstrom (6th overall pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Alex Rodriguez, Mariners (1st overall)
Notes: not a good draft, with the exception of Bill Mueller. Trot Nixon (7th), Billy Wagner (11th), Derrek Lee (14th), Chris Carpenter (15th), Torii Hunter (20th), Jason Varitek (21st) were all taken after Soderstrom. So was Scott Rolen in the 2nd round, two picks before Singleton.
1994:
Keith Foulke (9th)
Bobby Howry (5th)
JD Drew (did not sign, 20th)
First Round: Dante Powell (22nd pick), Jacob Cruz (32nd pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Nomar Garciaparra, Red Sox (12th)
Notes: Powell and Cruz never panned out, but few players taken after them in the 1st and 2nd round amounted to much. Jay Payton is the best, as Troy Glaus did not sign after being taken with the third pick of the second round.
1995:
Russ Ortiz (4th)
Joe Nathan (6th)
Toby Hall (did not sign, 24th)
Brad Lidge (did not sign, 42nd)
First Round: Joe Fontenot (16th pick, at least was trade bait - Roy Halladay was the very next pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Todd Helton, Rockies (8th pick)
Notes: While Russ Ortiz isn't great now, you can't complain about getting a player like that in the 4th round. Also, to get two quality major-leaguers out of one draft really isn't bad at all. Carlos Beltran went three picks after the Giants' 2nd round pick, Jason Brester, who went nowhere.
1996:
Mike Caruso (2nd, at least was trade bait)
Ryan Jensen (8th)
First Round: Matt White (7th pick, total bust)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Eric Chavez, Athletics (10th pick)
Notes: The Giants got nothing from this draft, really. Also, Quinn did not have a single impact first-round pick while he was GM. A big 0-5 with first rounders. He also missed out on Jimmy Rollins from his own back yard, taken 4 picks after Caruso.
Brian Sabean, 1997-Present
1997:
Jason Grilli (1st)
Scott Linebrink (4th)
First Round: Grilli (4th pick), Dan McKinley (49th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Vernon Wells, Blue Jays (5th pick) or Lance Berkman, Astros (16th pick)
Notes: Thus starts the Sabean era. Grilli ended up being good trade fodder, but Wells was taken one pick later. Berkman and Jon Garland also were taken later. Linebrink was a nice 2nd rounder.
1998:
Uhhh... Ryan Vogelsong (5th)
First Round: Tony Torcato (19th pick), Nate Bump (25th pick), Arturo McDowell (29th pick), Chris Jones (38th pick), Jeff Urban (41st pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: JD Drew, Cardinals (5th overall pick)
Notes: Wow. Five picks out of the first 41, nine of the first 128, and nothing. Seven guys from this made the majors. Unfortunately, those guys were Torcato, Bump, Chris Magruder, Vogelsong, Doug Clark, Cody Ransom, and Erasmo Ramirez. At least Bump and Vogelsong made for decent trade fodder, and Vogelsong might have been something if he had been able to stay healthy. CC Sabathia was taken one pick after Torcato; Brad Wilkerson and Aaron Rowand were taken 33rd and 35th. Adam Dunn and Brandon Inge were taken in the 2nd. Despite the number of picks, though, there wasn't a ton of talent that slipped past Sabean. This wasn't the best draft year.
1999:
Kurt Ainsworth (1st)
Jerome Williams (1st)
Jack Taschner (2nd)
First Round: Ainsworth (24th pick), Williams (39th)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Barry Zito, Athletics (9th pick)
Notes: Not bad. Between Williams and Taschner, Brian Roberts (50th pick), Carl Crawford (52nd), and John Lackey (68th) were chosen. Justin Morneau and Hank Blalock went in the 3rd round; Nate Robertson went in the 5th - a lot of teams missed there.
2000:
Boof Bonser (1st)
Lance Niekro (2nd)
Jason Ellison (22nd)
First Round: Boof Bonser (21st pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Chase Utley, Phillies (15th)
Notes: Waiting for Boof, indeed. Utley, Adrian Gonzalez (1st overall), and, arguably, Rocco Baldelli (6th overall) are the only players better than Boof taken in the 1st round. Adam Wainwright, Aaron Heilman, and Kelly Johnson were taken later. Grady Sizemore and Chris Young (the pitcher) were taken in the 3rd. Ellison may not be that good, but that was a nice 22nd round pick.
2001:
Brad Hennessey (1st)
Noah Lowry (1st)
Todd Linden (1st)
Jesse Foppert (2nd)
Justin Knoedler (5th)
Scott Munter (47th)
First Round: Hennessey (21st pick), Lowry (30th pick), Linden (41st pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Joe Mauer, Twins (1st overall, one pick before Mark Prior)
Notes: Nice draft! OK, so the Giants missed out on David Wright, taken 38th. But the Giants didn't pick until 21st, and they have a #3 type starter on the team, a solid reliever, now closer, on the team, a guy who looked like a real major-league pitcher before his injuries (Foppert) that they were able to trade with Torrealba for Winn, a 5th rounder who could be a backup C in MLB now, and a guy who has at least had a bit of MLB time in the 47th round. Not bad. Linden, unfortunately, looked like a real player. Maybe he can turn it around. Dan Haren was taken two picks before Foppert. Ryan Howard went in the 5th round.
2002:
Matt Cain (1st)
Fred Lewis (2nd)
Dan Ortmeier (3rd)
Kevin Correia (4th)
Clay Hensley (8th)
First Round: Cain (25th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Prince Fielder, Brewers, (7th pick), or Nick Swisher, Athletics (16th pick), or Cole Hamels, Phillies (17th pick). Cain is close.
Notes: Ahh, the famous Moneyball draft. Hands down, a great draft for the Giants. Cain is an amazing pick at #25, Fred Lewis is performing well for the big club, as is Ortmeier. Correia and Hensley were excellent picks. Misses? Curtis Granderson went in the 3rd round, but before Ortmeier. Rich Hill went in the 4th round before Correia.
2003:
David Aardsma (1st)
Nate Schierholtz (3rd)
Billy Sadler (6th)
Pat Misch (7th)
Brian Wilson (24th)
First Round: Aardsma (22nd pick), Roger Whitaker (34th pick)
Best Player Drafted in First Round: Rickie Weeks, Brewers (2nd overall pick)
Notes: We're really getting into "too soon to tell" territory here. Chad Billingsley was taken 2 picks after Aardsma. Carlos Quentin, Matt Murton, and Adam Jones were taken after Aardsma as well. Wilson and Sadler have both been up. Aardsma wasn't traded for much, but he has had some major-league success. Misch is close to a callup, as is Schierholtz, who may be the best of the bunch.
It is really too soon to tell for any draft after 2003, but there are some highlights. Kevin Frandsen has already stuck with the big club after being a 12th round pick in 2004, while Jonathan Sanchez shows great promise after having been taken in the 27th round in the same year. The Giants had no 1st rounder in 2004, so Eddy Martinez-Esteve was the first pick that year in the 2nd round.
2005 is the infamous draft-pick punting year, and the Giants didn't pick until Benj Copeland in the 4th round. Sergio Romo in the 28th round may prove to be the best pick for Sabean that year.
2006:
Tim Lincecum (1st)
Best Player Drafted in the First Round: Tim Lincecum, Giants (10th pick).
Notes: That's all you need to know. Burriss? Tanner? Bocock? When you get a player like Lincecum, anything else is gravy. Great draft.
Thoughts? How does Sabean stack up against our former GMs? Al Rosen did draft Will Clark and Matt Williams, but drafting is usually a lot easier when you are picking #2 and #3 overall in a draft.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Re: Some Giants Draft History
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 6:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Very nice overview, North Side! But, are you telling me that Steve Hosey is never going to be our RF? Just think, our last long-term-solution in RF was Bobby Bonds! Wow, are we cursed in RF?
by Lyle on Jun 5, 2007 7:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Roger on Jun 5, 2007 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Lyle on Jun 5, 2007 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
He seems to have a good eye for acquiring pitching, but has a hard time identifying the good pitchers he should be keeping. I know it ain't football, but can someone get this man an Offensive Coordinator.
by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 5, 2007 7:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Overall, Sabean seems to have done quite a good job identifying talent to draft. I don't think Sabean can't identify hitters, necessarily, although the organization may be a lot better at identifying pitching talent. His high picks are almost all on pitchers, which seems to be the organizational philosophy - there are a lot more hitters to be had in free agency than there are pitchers. That seems to go against the Zito signing, though.
Also, in Sabean's earlier years as GM, pitching was really a much bigger organizational need than hitting, which he has reversed. Now that pitching is the org's strong point, I will be interested to see whether he goes after hitting or sticks with what has worked - drafting pitching.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
And his bad hitting evaluation, at least these days, extends outside of the draft, I'd say. Or do we need to be reminded of two trades that shall not be named and questionable free agent signings.
I hope he does go after hitting. If he wants to shut the Fringe up, drafting and developing good hitting prospects would be a great start.
by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 5, 2007 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Unfortunately, most of our pitchers in the minors are in the lower levels, so they are neither ready to replace our MLB pitchers nor as attractive in trade. Also, it is harder to get top-notch star MLB-ready hitters in trade unless you trade extra pitching, because a star hitter who plays every day is almost always worth more than a star pitcher.
Like most of us, I would like to see Sabean draft a can't-miss Lincecum of hitters that we actually can hang on to for years and on the cheap. It has been sooooo long since that happened!
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
You know, being GM is tough and the more I think about, the more I would dread being in Brian Sabean's shoes.
But I'll still keep my sig 'cause I like it.
by Punch Rockgroin on Jun 5, 2007 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by rotorueter on Jun 5, 2007 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sularz on Jun 5, 2007 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by giants92388 on Jun 5, 2007 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Any easy way to line up the Braves during the same era. A two column comparison perhaps. (I'm too lazy to do this myself, as its some work, and I don't want to break out Excel) Besides your comments are better. I don't follow prospects ahead of time anymore.
by E Ticket on Jun 5, 2007 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
I took a quick look at the Braves. They don't just draft a new superstar every year, although they have done a good job of trading the talent they have for more young talent. They have definitely been pretty good with the dartboard, getting good players who have stuck in later rounds.
Also, when it rains, it pours for the Braves. In 2002, they got Francouer (1st), McCann (2nd), and Chuck James (20th). They got Adam Wainwright, Scott Thorman, and Kelly Johnson all in the 1st round in 2000, and added Zach Miner in the 4th. In 1993, they got a haul, but all in later rounds: Kevin Millwood (11th), Jermaine Dye (17th), and John Rocker (18th). Three All-Stars in those rounds, one draft. Unbelievable. That makes up for the years in which they just bombed, like 1999.
Another thing is that all of those guys are HS guys except James and Dye, who were JC guys. They seem to be able to identify HS talent pretty well, and a lot of those guys have turned out to be good-to-star quality. I think they also just have a good organization set up so that these guys do learn and develop well within the system, which HS guys really need. The Braves have gotten a lot of talent out of later rounds. It isn't just first and second round guys.
They stick with their younger guys, too. Even though many of their draft picks have ended up as spare parts-type relievers, they plug them in at the major-league level, so they always have that extra pen guy out of their system. Getting a star every once in a while out of the draft is great, but there is a real advantage when you can fill a couple bullpen spots and put a decent position player or two out there on the cheap. The Braves have done very well there.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Evan on Jun 5, 2007 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Conversely, in California theres the A's, Giants, Padres, and Bums. As much as it pains me to say it, I'm sure a lot of SoCal talent would LOVE (or prefer) to play for the Dodgers or even the Padres.
This is just a rudimentary look at the overall picture. There was really no deep thought process, so my suggestion/argument may (or quite possibly IS) be flawed.
by sfgfan on Jun 5, 2007 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sfgfan on Jun 5, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 5, 2007 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 5, 2007 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Braves tend to draft from their region and focus on high schoolers. I think a narrow focus like this helps, particularly since there are no teams close to their area to easily poach from their region, unlike the Giants with the A's in the area. In addition, with high schoolers, you get big rewards for big risks: they are harder to project but if you get a hit, you get a pretty good player.
I did a similar comparison to the above but only for about a 6-8 year period, comparing the Giants against the A's, Yankees, and Braves for picks that they all had in the 21-30 overall pick range, which is where your pick is if you are competitive for or in the playoffs. The teams were all comparable at that time (I think I did it in late 2004, maybe early 2005) and arguably the Giants were better, since they had Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert, Cain at that time.
Your study shows how important time is when comparing and evaluating draft results.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 5, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2007 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
question: so, is this going to be a year like 98, where we have a bunch of high picks bu not a lot of talent to choose from? might just be me but it seems like i've read that this year's crop isn't stellar, at least in the college ranks....is that true?
by vivalancellotti on Jun 5, 2007 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
I can certainly go back and look at the drafts and how they turned out, and I track minor league numbers, but I don't keep up on scouting the new guys.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
By the way, on the hometown discount deal, the Giants have done some of this as well. Last year both Snyder and Tanner were local boys who are reputed to be strong Giants fans. Schierholtz and Frandsen both are as well. Threets is from Liverpool. Foppert and Peireia from USF. So I wouldn't say they ignore the local angle on their draftboard.
by Roger on Jun 5, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2007 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Roger on Jun 6, 2007 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
If this perception is true, in addition to trying to fill half the roster (SPs, RPs) from the draft, they are also trying to fill 4 positional player slots, plus some bench slots from the draft (2b, SS, CF, RF + backup C, middle IF and 4th, 5th OF). If it actually worked, they would then need only target 4 positions in FA, trades, which would be 1b, 3b, LF, C.
by allfrank on Jun 5, 2007 12:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 5, 2007 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Roger on Jun 6, 2007 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Us: "Sabean/Scotty, we need more power!"
S/S: "I'm givin' it all I got, cap'n"
Us: "You'll just have to focus on power, and not so much on...
Okay, so the analogy breaks down pretty quickly. Even so, we need more power Scotty.
by Lyle on Jun 6, 2007 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
There has been major work done in quantifying defense over the last few years since the Moneyball softball teams that the A's were throwing out there in the early 2000s. We have a much better handle on the value of defense versus offense now, so we don't have to just say "no way, Adam Dunn is so much better than Randy Winn - look at his bat!" We can put a number on Winn's contribution and realize that Winn has actually been more valuable this year than Adam Dunn. That's not the best example, because Winn plays a lot of CF, but you get the gist.
What is interesting is that sabermetric defensive work is validating conventional baseball wisdom in a way that conventional baseball wisdom proponents couldn't do themselves, and doing it better - yes, Dunn both looks bad and is bad in the field, while Jeter looks good but is terrible. We can now put a run (and thus a win) value on that contribution and measure it against the player's offensive contribution.
I can't read Sabean's mind, and I might be wrong about what he is saying, but speed is a major component of defense. Now if Sabean is talking about stealing bases and bunts, then no thanks.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 6, 2007 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Luckily for them, this year seems to have a few prime choices for the first round.
by sfgfan on Jun 5, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2007 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Oh wait...almost everyone voted for Sabean. But that would mean...
by EliminateMe on Jun 5, 2007 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by groug on Jun 5, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Threw up in my mouth a little
Soderstrom.
Him?
by awesomer on Jun 5, 2007 1:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Threw up in my mouth a little
by jponry on Jun 5, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 5, 2007 2:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by giantsrainman on Jun 5, 2007 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
My only quibble is the 2005 'Draft-Pick Punting' comment.
2004 was the year Sabean punted the first round pick intentionally for Tucker. In 2005, the three picks that were given up were for:
- Omar - We needed a shortstop, we got a gold glover with a lot more in the tank than some expected.
- Matheny - Getting a catcher was key, and he was signed for defense, not offense. He won the gold glove, and no one could've forseen the 'World's Toughest Man' going down to injury like that.
- Armando - Yea, he didn't work out, but the Giants needed a closer, and he was the best on the market (by far).
Sometimes, you need free agents, fact of life. You can't sign top free agents without giving up picks.
by BruteSentiment on Jun 5, 2007 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Benitez signed less than a week before the arbitration deadline. It can be assumed that a) he would have broken the bank in arbitration after a 47 save, 1.29 ERA season, and b) the cheap Marlins wanted no part of that.
The Indians had declined Vizquel's option and said their goodbyes. It wouldn't have made sense for them to offer him arbitration where they may have ended up owing him more than the declined option would have paid.
I can accept that both players were hotly pursued, although I remember that after the Tigers signed Percival, the Giants were the only team out there positioned to splurge on a closer. What was the rush? What would have happened if they had told Benitez, "we'll sign this deal in a week?"
Omar's contract is easier to defend, although I always wonder: if you're a free agent who isn't expecting to be offered arbitration, is there value in waiting? Might a team be willing to offer you $6M a year if they get to keep their draft pick, as opposed to $5M a year if they don't? I've always been curious about that.
Anyway, there's no smoking gun here, but also no evidence that Sabean cared much about draft picks either.
by Pants Man on Jun 5, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
I would say that only one current GM appears to make decisions at one of those extremes: Towers in San Diego. They risked taking back Chan Ho Park, Alan Embree and Ryan Klesko for #57 overall, #63 overall, and #64 overall. I don't know that those are the types of picks that a team should risk on players who may want easy, fairly rich arbitration deals. And to those who say that the Padres made those moves with 'understandings' that those free agents would move on....I don't think most players would act that way. I'm suprised they did.
by BruteSentiment on Jun 5, 2007 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
The Padres situation was an odd one, and the Todd Walker situation only makes it more confusing. Until then I didn't realize that teams could essentially back out of the arbitrated contract by paying a penalty. If that's the case, it helps explains what San Diego was doing, although it makes them look like a bunch of tools for doing it.
by Pants Man on Jun 5, 2007 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
North Side...thank you for the post.
by Buzzword on Jun 6, 2007 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Also, as Martin has written, the volatility of the draft certainly makes the FAs a better risk - it just has to be the right FAs to give up the high potential reward from the draft.
Omar - yes
Matheny - ugh... I don't know if he was really much better than Knoedler, and he certainly was an overcorrection from Pierzynski (who, by the way, is appearing with the IL Sec of State and a White Sox coach to help sign up organ and tissue donors - what a guy!)
Mando - hard to say. In hindsight, easy to say, but yeah, he sure looked good the previous year.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 5, 2007 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 5, 2007 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2007 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by smirnoff on Jun 5, 2007 8:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by EliminateMe on Jun 5, 2007 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by smirnoff on Jun 5, 2007 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 6, 2007 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by nostocksjustbonds on Jun 6, 2007 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Clearly if you really think the guy is good, you would be better to err on being two rounds too early rather than one round too late, but presumedly the Cardinals had the opportunity to get at least one pretty good player by waiting to draft Albert that they otherwise might have missed out on.
by sharksrog on Jun 6, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
I was joking, but my underlying points were that (a) sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, and (b) a lot of those later-round picks involve taking a flier on a long-shot chance to work out.
Given Pujols' meteoric one-season rise through the farm system, it's hard in retrospect to figure out why he did drop so low...apparently he was a stud in HS and batted .461 in his one community college season.
The Giants don't deserve to be singled out for passing him up to select folks like Joe Jester, Kevin Vent, Anthony Yacco, since everyone else was passing also, but I do want to point out that the Giants drafted guys named Jester, Vent, and Yacco that year.
by EliminateMe on Jun 6, 2007 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by smirnoff on Jun 6, 2007 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
by Mel Ott on Jun 6, 2007 9:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Some Giants Draft History
Going back to the Braves: I think that the Braves definitely have an actual system with which they approach teaching their players. Some guys aren't going to work in that system, and those seem to be the guys that the Braves deal, even if the guys show a lot of talent.
If the Giants have an actual system, then it certainly hasn't worked with our endless stream of fast, toolsy OFers who don't end up making it, and I have a hard time believing that the Giants are just that bad at identifying the right talent through both the draft and in Latin America.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Jun 6, 2007 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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