Drafty
The diaries have been bursting with draft link goodness for a couple of links now. Here's the MVN mock draft, the Minor League Ball community draft, and an MLB.com mock draft. Here's a link (subscriber-only) to Joe Sheehan explaining why he's voting for Rafael Furcal at shortstop on his All-Star ballot, and here's a link to a YouTube video of "In Da Club" remixed with "Yakity Sax" as the background music. Neither of the last two is relevant to this particular post, and they're only related to each other by sharing a unique brand of inanity. I just thought I'd share while in mad linking mode.
Of the mock drafts, though, the one that caught my attention was the one from MLB.com, which has the Giants going for three pitchers in the first round. If that were to happen, this site would resemble the scene from Airplane! where Julie Hagerty asks if there are any passengers who know how to fly a plane. The Giants need hitting. There are hitters available. It almost seems like the second no-brainer in the history of mankind.
But there are some forces of nature at work, too. The Giants haven't drafted a first-round quality hitter since Matt Williams, depending on how much credit you'd want to give Bill Mueller's peak. The Giants haven't drafted a first-round quality outfielder since Chili Davis. They have a long history of not producing hitters, and I feel as if I should win some sort of award for pointing this out for the first time.
The Giants know what they're doing with pitchers. Early rounds, late rounds; it doesn't matter. The Giants current staff has three starters picked in the first round, a closer picked in the first round, a setup man who was the first player from his draft class to make the majors, and various other relievers have come out of the system as needed. They've also sprinkled quality pitchers around the league like organizational dandruff. It seems like every team has a former Giants draftee making a difference for their pitching staff.
The logic: If the Giants can only draft quality pitchers, they should draft pitching and trade it for hitting as needed.
The difficulty: The Giants haven't shown any idea that they can follow through with a plan like that, that they would want to follow through with a plan like that, or that they could succeed with a plan like that. Part of trading good pitchers for good hitters is recognizing what constitutes a good hitter.
The twist: I can't imagine Brian Sabean sticking around for too much longer. So whoever takes his job will make the decision on what to do with an organizational surplus.
Comment starter: What to do? Best player available? Concentrate on the top hitters on the board, even if that means a couple of overdrafts? Go with pitching, as that's what the organization has proven it can develop?
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Re: Drafty
I love you.
As for the question, I would go BPA everytime. If I were the GM, I would probably lean towards the best hitter over the best pitcher, but I can't blame them for going with pitchers due to their track record. However, I will be very disappointed if the supp. round ends and we don't have at least one guy who looks like a future impact bat.
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Early...
60% of the time, it works everytime!
Re: Early...
The earlier pick(s) should be BPA. Maybe after the 22nd pick they can start gunning for certain types, but until then I think it should be BPA. Maybe the 22nd could be a "specific" type of player as well. I just know that at #10, BPA should be the way to go.
Re: Drafty
Honestly, I'm really psyched about the draft. How often does a team get to go out on draft day and basically draft their six top prospects. Obviously having a pretty bare minor-league system with Lincecum in the majors is a factor, but with a deep first round we're going to be getting guys who would be considered real talents anywhere.
Eat Cake
I guess I could live with a 4-2 pitcher ratio, but am very much hoping for at least 3-3 or 4-2 hitters.
Re: Drafty
I'm not against drafting more pitching. What we can't use can be used as trade bait. Should we decide to draft more hitters, great, but I'm not sitting around waiting for the next great bat to emerge from this draft.
All I ask of the organization is to make good picks that work for the team.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 1:23 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Drafty
Lincecum is the real deal, and in five years Tanner just maybe turns into Andrew Miller Junior, but probably flames out in the Cal League or AA. Other than that, I'm not seeing anyone else.
by wcw on Jun 5, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
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Adam Cowart was a friggin' steal. Clayton Tanner's been impressive. I like Bocock's progress with his promotion to San Jose last month. Burriss has fallen on hard times with his terrible slump to open the season, but is working to improve in Augusta and doing well there. Last year Burriss impressed the hell out of me.
Are these guys world beaters? Of course not. I'm not asking Sabean and company to draft world beaters. I'm asking them to draft guys they can develop into contributing players.
If you're waiting around for them to draft the next Johan Santana or Albert Pujols, bring a book. It'll be a long wait for that. For anyone to draft someone like that. Once-in-a-lifetime players just don't come around every draft. I'd say Lincecum is the closest to once-in-a-lifetime and even that's pushing it.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 6, 2007 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
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/bad joke
I guess the best player available is the logical answer, but I sure do like semi-instant gratification, and a college hitter like Mills seems so enticing. I'll be pulling for a hitter at #10 almost no matter what, and if they decide to go with a pitcher instead I'll understand, but I won't like it!
Re: Drafty
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070605&content_id=2006566&vkey=draft2007&fext= .jsp
It has us taking Wieters at 10, Poreda at 22, and Smoker at 29. I'd be ecstatic with Wieters, Poreda doesn't excite me too much, and Smoker I like a lot.
MVN's Draft just got me giggling like a little schoolgirl. Imagine a lineup with Villalona hitting 3rd, Heyward 4th, and LaPorta 5th. Talk about a murderer's row right there. Our farm system could turn from somewhat decent to pretty damn good, all in the course of one day!
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Poreda
Paging Jesse Foppert and Nick Pereira
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
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So I guess I'll default and joing the BPA bandwagon.
Stick to your draft board
If a hitter is rated higher on their board than pitching then a hitter it is. Obviously they can use the later rounds of the draft to fill out their minor league teams and draft by position.
Re: Drafty
What? I can dream.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 3:09 PM PDT reply actions
Amount=Aumont
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Aumont, s'il vous plait
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 5, 2007 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Aumont, s'il vous plait
M. Aumont prouvera-t-il ma valeur? J'espère ainsi.
(C'est dommage, je parle français avec un accent japonais maintenant...)
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jun 5, 2007 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yo quiero Taco Bell
by E Ticket on Jun 5, 2007 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Yo quiero Taco Bell
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 6, 2007 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
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Then you look at the Minor League Ball mock draft and see that the loudest fans clearly think that high school hitters are always the best player available.
I'd do the general BPA argument, but give special consideration to college hitters available in the first two rounds. If Wieters is available, take him. If Wieters and Price are available, take Wieters.
Of course, I'm kicking myself for saying this: BA is reporting that Wieters will want something similar to what Teixiera got: $9.5 million and a four-year MLB deal. Um....yikes.
It's interesting that there's this backlash against Poreda. His fastball is a pretty special velocity for a left hander. Its movement is what makes it so great, though. What he needs is a changeup, which he's started on. Yes, it needs to be worked on, but the fastball is right up there.
In my mind, it's like liking a player for one tool. I like Poreda at 29 at the highest, but he'd be an excellent sandwich round pick. The fact he's a college player doesn't factor in, since he was late to baseball.
I stick by my Sanchez comparison, except I hope people can talk Poreda out of using his slider as anything more than a show-me pitch earlier than Jonathan.
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That's a lot of money, but... well, we need some bats.
Re: Drafty
I'll be satisfied with noting that Wieters has been projected by some to drop past the Giants because of signability issues (Boras) but apparently none of the mock drafters that say this realize that the Giants eschew signability issues with their #10 pick, so if Wieters is there, he will be taken most probably, because most commentary I've read about him says that he is the top college hitter in the draft.
If we get him, I would say he would be a nice bookend to last year's draft, as I think he is comparable to us getting Lincecum last season: he's a switch-hitting catcher with power, looks like he might stick at catcher too, and a potential top 3 pick that somehow fell in the draft to us. Premium hitter at a premium position, plus as a college player, he's probably only a year or two off, instead of possibly 4-6 if a high school hitter was drafted.
Can lightening strike twice? I hope so.
Pitching we have traded away, besides the worse in Sabean's tenure (and you know which one was that), since World Series, that I can remember:
Ainsworth, Moss, et al for Ponson: Ponson's half year performance for us is still more than any team has gotten from the three pitchers we traded.
Foppert and Torrealba for Winn: Foppert did nothing for Seattle and we got him back now. Winn is a good complementary player.
Walker for ???: We got Walker back.
Accardo for Hillenbrand/Chulk: looks like a bad trade right now, at the end of last season, it looked like a good trade for us, Accardo did terribly for Toronto.
Williams/Aardsma for Hawkins then Kline: Hawkins and Kline has pitched better for us the past year and a half than Williams and Aardsma has. Williams landed at AAA Washington this season and couldn't stick there. Aardsma had a nice partial year last year with Cubs but was traded to ChiSox and did poorly, getting sent back down recently.
Burres for nothing: Doing OK for Orioles, so that's bad for us, but it's not like he's doing great either like the trade that cannot be mentioned.
Coutlangus for nothing: Doing so-so for Reds, I think he got dropped back to the minors sometime this season, if he were with the Giants, I think Misch would rank ahead of him on depth, but the Reds are desperate for relievers.
Josh Habel for half year of Eric Young: Young didn't do much for us, but neither did Habel for the Brewers.
Hensley for ???: Forgot how we lost him to SD, (Herges?) he had a great year last year but horrible this year, I think he just got dropped to minors but still, they got a great year out of him last year.
Villanueva and ??? for Wayne Franklin and ???: Franklin ate innings for us, Villanueva is now doing well for Brewers as reliever/starter, Brewers probably will be way ahead of us on this deal too.
Martis for Stanton: Stanton did great for us for half year. Martis doing poorly for Advanced A league in Washington's minors, 4.64 ERA, only 6.0 K/9, 3.2 BB/9, 1.89 K/BB, .295 BABIP so no good or bad luck there, 1.34 WHIP which is good, but some bad luck, his FIP is 4.18. But this is advanced A. It's like I noted last year, no big deal losing him.
Overall, we got Winn, Chulk, and Kline (plus a few half season rentals) for Accardo, Torrealba, Aardsma, Burres, Coutlangus, Hensley, Villanueva. We give up more bodies, but most of them are expendable, fungible pitchers in Aardsma, Burres, Coutlangus, Hensley, Villanueva.
Overall, it is not a bad exchange - not good - but not bad, Winn I still think is an above average OF, he's just not a power hitter that so many is so fixated on that they forget that he is a good hitter, about 780-800 OPS which is above average for all RF since 2000.
If I forgot any, sorry, doing this from memory and (shhh) from work, I'm burned out from a looong project....
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jun 5, 2007 3:50 PM PDT reply actions
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I think Randy is a fine human being and a useful player. What I do NOT think he is is an above-average outfielder.
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His bat does not really deliver even there, but at least it's not as disappointing as in RF (where UZR has him at well above average).
by wcw on Jun 5, 2007 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
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120 OPS+ is playing over his head, but he should, knock on wood, be able to deliver 105s for another year or three, which makes him a perfectly useful player. Last year's completely punk hitting strikes me as the outlier here.
by wcw on Jun 6, 2007 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions
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To me, "above average" is good. "Slightly above average" wouldn't quite be good -- although it would be reasonably close to being so.
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Randy isn't as bad as the 84 would indicate -- but he also isn't as good as the 118.
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The success with pitchers is the one thing separating this team from dead last in baseball. But the logic of using the pitching to get position players doesn't seem to follow in that... you still need to recognize position talent, right? You don't have to develop it (which the Giants clearly can't or won't) but someone still has to recognize it and value it accurately.
So, maybe a little practice from drafting position players would help a bit.
Worse, not developing in-house position players means buying them at top dollar later, magnifying any errors tremendously in terms of salary. If Linden fails, so what. Bring up Lewis. If he craps out, bring up Schierholz, or Carlos Sosa, or whoever. If Boonitez fails, or Pierzynski, or Winn, or Edgardo, etc., you're out multiple millions. When Lincecum or Cain walks because the Giants "can't afford" them, it would be a shame to blame that on deferred payments to some of the "wily vets" Sabean has found in the past few years.
Re: Drafty
I'm hoping for a 4/2 hitter/pitcher split, and would be fine with a 3/3 split. We need at least one HS pitcher out of the six, and at least one college hitter. Since there aren't that many excellent college hitters, I'd lean to that being my pick at #10.
by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 5, 2007 4:16 PM PDT reply actions
Re: Drafty
Re: Drafty
Dread Pirate Roberts says...
Re: Drafty
Re: Drafty
Without Barry Bonds, the Giants hitting would be atrocious, just as it was in 2005 without him (only 649 runs!). And in two years, most of the Giants old bats are going to be even less effective than they are today.
Yeah, but they will draft free agents, you say? How well did that work this past winter, when they had FAR more money to spend than any other team? Trying to get younger and better at the plate, the Giants succeed only in getting (perhaps) slightly younger and (perhaps) slightly better.
Trades, you say? The last impact hitter the Giants traded for was Ellis Burks, and that was the better part of a decade ago. The big problems in trading for good hitters is that they are seldom available, and usually when they are, they require more in return than the Giants can realistically offer.
Looking two years down the road, the only hitters the Giants have now that they would likely want in their starting lineup then are Bengie Molina (probably), Ryan Klesko (possibly), Kevin Frandsen (maybe), Pedro Feliz (conceivably), Randy Winn (perhaps)Freddie Lewis (doubtful), Nate Schierholtz (probably) and maybe one of the young shortstops.
Today the Giants are short only two very good hitters. In two years with Bonds gone, they could easily be three short.
Re: Drafty
Are You Kidding?
For the record
--Jarrod Parker, high-upside RHP from an Indiana HS.
--Matt Dominguez, high-upside, smooth-fielding HS third baseman.
--Beau Mills, lefty college bat, defensive questions.
--Jason Heyward, lefty-hitting RF, high-risk, high-reward. He's probably a better prospect for a team like the Braves who have a much better record in helping these kinds of guys to succeed.
As for the best-player-available debate, I definitely lean toward getting the best signable player but with a few possible guidelines:
--Looking at the top-six picks overall, I'd like to see a mixed portfolio of risky/polished players and mix of pitchers/hitters. This isn't a big consideration, though.
--When in doubt, I'd probably take the pitcher over the hitter. The Giants develop pitchers so much better than hitters that it just makes sense to take a risk there, rather than with a hitter. (I wouldn't get crazy about it, however.)
Re: For the record
by z4 landshark @ McCovey Chronicles on Jun 5, 2007 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: For the record
My current hope is for Heyward, whose upside I really love. The Giants may not be great at developing hitters, but Heyward already knows the strike zone. That is the one skill with which prospects need to enter the Giants system if they are ever to take a walk, and he's got it.
Sure, even if he does help, it'll be in five years, but I am tired of SFG hitting prospect upside being 4th-OF. I'd like a front-line hitter again.
by wcw on Jun 6, 2007 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions

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