McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Defense FAIL: Purdue 76, Michigan State 64

How about this Lewis kid

I guess this probably doesn't warrent a totally seperate diary but Lewis has been (imho) a good player in his breif stint in the majors.

He has been hitting for average, has great speed, decent defense, and a great attitude. He had a couple of rough games but seems to have a short memory when it comes to those things (me like).

Is it still early enough that we can call this a fluke or does he have he tools to make it?

Sub question:

I really like his stroke and it seems as if he could hit for pretty good power if he sticks with it. What do you think?

Poll
Max HR and SB potential
10hr 20sb
27 votes
20hr 30sb
51 votes
30hr 30sb
6 votes
40hr 40sb
0 votes
100hr 100sb (psst this is the right answer)
3 votes

87 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs  |  Comment 41 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Playing in AT&T will limit his power numbers, even if he reaches his ceiling.
Tim Lincecum has been freed!

by nostocksjustbonds on May 23, 2007 9:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I voted for #2 because it's the closest, but I don't think he'll steal that many bases. Fred has never translated his speed into being a major basestealing threat, but it is still valuable in other ways.

Love his approach at the plate. Patient, good stroke.  He more than held his own againt Roy Oswalt, one of the very best pitchers in baseball, twice within 5 games.  Very impressive.  Better question:  If he keeps this up, should Roberts get his starting job back?

The Timmy fever seems to be dying down a bit, but is anyone else more impressed by last night's performance than anything else we've seen so far.  Once again, hung in there after falling behind early against Oswalt.  Didn't really have the K pitch going but got it done with control and groundballs.  Man, I'm quietly impressed and I almost like that better than if he came in and just blew the doors off.

by DrBGiantsfan on May 23, 2007 9:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Roberts has never been more than a 4th OF. If Lewis is playing well, he should continue to get the time. Ort will likely get sent down when Roberts comes back.
Tim Lincecum has been freed!

by nostocksjustbonds on May 23, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
If ort goes down, who plays in the OF with Bonds and Winn when a LHP starts? Roberts? Lewis? Dustan Mohr?

by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
IN RF!!!

by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pedro is becoming a beast
Solid glove, walk machine, goes with the pitch improving player. A beast I tell you.

by wilriv21 on May 23, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
DrB, I forget where I read the quote, but Tim said afterwards, essentially, that although he likes strikeouts he was just going with what worked that night. Elsewhere (again to hazy/lazy to look it up) I read that the Astros, as a team, decided not to try to wait out the at-bats against Tim - so they were apparently hacking early. Interesting approach.

by Lyle on May 23, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
...and TOO hazy to spell correctly...

by Lyle on May 23, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum's K numbers
It seemed to me that his K numbers were down last night because of the aggressive approach the Astros were taking at the plate.  They were attacking early in the count to avoid getting in a two-strike situation.  So instead of a bunch of K's The Franchise induced a bunch of weakly hit grounders.  I'll take the grounders if it means less of our bullpen.
Vote for Pedro...to be DFA'd!

by W8ingForATitle on May 23, 2007 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I was really shocked in his post-game interview to learn he primarily throws his FB off two-seams. Who was the last pitcher to throw a two-seamer in the high-90's? Maybe Kevin Brown in his hay-day? Also interesting to see that he throws his curve off the exact same FB grip, and his change is really a modified split-finger.

by mxmob33 on May 23, 2007 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I was most impressed by Tim's first start against Houston. But if Tim truly didn't have his stuff in his second outing against them as he said after the game, then, yes, I'm more impressed by his most recent outing than any of his other major league outings.

If Tim can keep the opponents from hitting the ball hard and from drawing walks even when he doesn't have his good stuff, the sky would appear to be the limit.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I like Freddie Lewis at the plate, but his defense has been less than inspiring so far. I think he could have a 20-20 season at some point though. He needs to learn not to have mental lapses like the one last night in the field.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 23, 2007 9:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
He also makes a lot of mental errors running the bases. He stumbled over the bag running to third last night, when he might have been able to score. What good are wheels if you can't stay on your feet?
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 23, 2007 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Mental lapses in the field and on the basepaths have been one of Lewis' main bugaboos in his minor league career. Dave Machemer, particularly, was driven to distraction by them. I think that's one reason his moved Freddie to LF that year in AA.

by Roger on May 23, 2007 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Hopefully these are things that coaches can help him with. I wonder how much faith you guys have in the Giants' coaching staff and their ability to fix bad habits and bad technique. Is he too old to start teaching him new tricks? He and I are about the same age and I know my girlfriend still can teach me to put my dishes in the dishwasher.
Eatin' D-Backs and crappin' out Rockies.

by camwoody on May 23, 2007 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
that should read CAN'T teach me. Unfortunately for my girlfriend.
Eatin' D-Backs and crappin' out Rockies.

by camwoody on May 23, 2007 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny either way
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on May 23, 2007 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I agree.  20/20 isn't impossible for Lewis.  I think he's capable of doing it for at least a few "consecutive" seasons.  It'll be interesting to see how he adjusts to the league's adjustment of him.

by sfgfan on May 23, 2007 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
He has a good stroke and shows an early ability to wait on major league pitches, unlike a certain OF prospect who was recently DFAed.  He has a lean and long frame which should get stronger.  Absolutely, he can hit 20 homers in the future.

But, it is almost bizarre how little he does with his speed at this point in his career.  He is uncertain with his OF routes to the ball and makes a base running mistake almost every time he is on the paths.  But I gotta figure this will get better with time.  It'd be great if he could ever play CF, which would be more important to his career and to the Giants than his stealing bases.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on May 23, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
The first batter in the second inning of Tim Lincecum's first game at Fresno hit a high fly ball down the left field line.  Freddie did a nice job of running a long way (He was actually too far off the line, much as he was in right field on Tuesday night.) to settle under the ball.  Then he dropped it for a two-base error.

To compound matters, Tim then walked the next hitter, and both runners moved up on a passed ball.  But two strikeouts and a ground ball to shortstop later, both runners were stranded at second and third, respectively.

The Giants could help Tim out a bit if they knew how to position themselves better not only for the hitters Tim faces, but for his own unique pitching itself.

Batters have a hard time pulling Tim's pitches with authority, so the middle infielders should hug the middle.  And the corner infielders should generally play off the line to the hitter's pull side, but play essentially a double's defense to the hitter's off field.  The exception would be that the first baseman should also play a doubles defense against lefthanded batters, since they have a propensity for grounding Tim's curve down the first base line.

The center fielder should shade the pull field only slightly, and the corner outfielders should play pretty much straight away to the pull field, but shallow and near the line to the off field.

Think back to a few plays in particular from Tuesday's game.

In the first inning, Tim tipped a ball up the middle, allowing Omar Vizquel to come up the middle and throw the batter out.  Later, Omar made a nice play to his left against a lefty hitter to throw him out to end another inning.  Omar should have been closer to the middle to begin with on both plays.

Ray Durham made a nice play up the middle to throw out a batter/runner.  He also would benefit from playing a couple more steps toward the middle.

Had Pedro Feliz been in a doubles defense against Mike Lamb leading off the fourth inning, he would likely have turned Mike's bouncing double down the line into a relatively easy out.

Likewise if Freddie Lewis had been playing more shallow and closer to the line against the following batter, righthanded hitting Mark Loretta, the ball that tipped off his glove down the line would have been a fairly routine play.

I'm sure the Giants do a fine job of scouting the opposing hitters.  It would be useful if in the case of Tim, they also did a better job of scouting the hitting patterns given up to opposing batters AGAINST Tim.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I see him as a .270/.360/.420 kind of player with a ceiling of something more like .275/.375/.450 (but not likely to hit that well). If he could play center every day he'd be a plus regular but as it is he'll probably just be one of the better corner outfielders in the business. Reggie Willits with less contact ability and more power.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 23, 2007 10:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Whoah, that's supposed to be "better fourth outfielders" not corner outfielders. You'd have to hit a lot better than that to be a top corner outfielder.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 23, 2007 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
I don't expect Freddie to hit much more than .250 unless he can cut down on his strikeouts and simultaneously hit a few more homers.  At the rate he strikes out and homers at present, a .300 BABIP is unlikely to yield a batting average over .250 for Fred.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freddie has been refreshing
It is great to see a homegrown player doing well in his brief ML career. Freddie is a talented athlete still learning the nuances of the game of baseball. Here is hoping for a long successful career in The City. Much luck Frederick.

by wilriv21 on May 23, 2007 11:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
20 HR?  No, I don't think he'll ever reach that plateau.  He might get above 10 a couple of times, but that's it.

I still don't like his overall package.  Once again, what it comes down to for me is that with his tools, he needs to play center.  A light-power hitting RF is not a popular thing.

That, with the mental hiccups, have me low on him.

To me, he's Randy Winn with a bit more speed and a bit less power.

I say trade him now, while misconceptions over his long-term value is high.  I still would love to see him and Sanchez (or maybe even less) go to the White Sox for Fields.

by BruteSentiment on May 23, 2007 12:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Party poop.
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on May 23, 2007 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Looking at his body and swing (LOTS of leverage), I think that power is going to keep developing. That would make him a much better bet to stick at a corner OF position. And while you're right about light-power hitting RF's being rare, the same cannot be said about LF, where a few successful teams have played leadoff guys (Podsednik, Roberts, etc.). So if the power doesn't develop, but the BA and OBP stay above average, that's where I see him playing.

by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
when did sabean get to you???

seriously, trade freddie? cuz of one brief mental mistake when he hustled for the ball, missed it and ended up in the stands?

he is the kind of player that is fun to watch...something that has been sorely lacking on this team (except for omar)

after watching hit and miss guys like linden, both freddie and ort have been a breath of fresh air

and dingers dont win you championships...hard nosed players do

by bacci40 on May 23, 2007 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Who lead the league in hard-nosedness last season?
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 23, 2007 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
David ecksteinsednick!!!
Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
/Darin Erstad.

DID YOU KNOW HE PLAYED FOOTBALL?

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
He did NOT play football. He was a punter.

by Roger on May 23, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
BUT HE WAS THE GRITTIEST PUNTER THERE EVER WAS!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 23, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
AND HE PLAYED FOR NEBRASKA AND THEY ARE KNOWN FOR THEIR HARD-NOSED-GRINDIENESS PUNTERS!!!
Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Freddie has been making that 'one mental mistake' for several years in the outfield in the minors.

Worse, even Hiatt has said that he takes it to the plate with him, which is the reason they said they moved him to left three years ago and he hasn't (and apparently won't ever) move back to center.

At least he's in right, but he's still the tools that should be a center fielder, not a right fielder.  And since we'd never get the full value out of him as a player that he could probably get in a trade, yes, trade him.

by BruteSentiment on May 23, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
In fairness, he was playing a decent amount of CF in Fresno this year. So perhaps they are trying to work him back there.

by Roger on May 24, 2007 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
Jonathan Sanchez is at present an iffy proposition, but his potential dominance makes me believe that I would keep him rather than trade even just him for what I consider to be a slightly iffy Josh Fields.

I think Josh is closer to his potential than Jonathan -- but that Sanchez's ceiling is a fair amount higher.

by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
If you are going to be a corner OF with little power, you need to have a .400 OBP.

by zenbitz on May 23, 2007 2:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: How about this Lewis kid
The problem with Lewis is that he didn't focus on baseball until the Giants signed him, and his play in the field shows that.  The Giants were initially hoping that with physical maturity and development, he would become a middle of lineup hitter, but that's not been shown yet.

But it was around 25 when Niekro started hitting with power and 25 when Linden made his great leap in power.  Lewis made a big leap last year, going from 73.1 AB/HR in 2005 to 36.6 AB/HR in 2006 (25), and this year in minors, 28.5 AB/HR, he's 26 this year.

Looking at Randy Winn's career minor league stats, he had even less power than Lewis coming up and starting in the majors, so I have no doubt in my mind that Lewis can out homer Winn but steals look like it could be a push, if given the chance for similar ABs.  And Randy didn't become a full time starter until he was 28, though he did put in signficant time in the majors starting at 24, so that's similar to Lewis getting his first extended taste of the majors at 26.

Winn seems like a good comparison for Lewis.   Lewis looks good for mid-teens to 20 homer power, 20-30 steals ability, but he appears to be able to get on base better than Winn and appears to have more power than Winn coming up.  Given that Winn has been a hit 700 OPS hitter in the majors, that suggests, assuming Lewis can keep on developing, that Lewis can be a low 800 OPS hitter, which would be above average for a RF, just not as many homers as one might desire in a corner OF.  A good 4th OF is pretty apt I would say, but at 800+ OPS, that should be starter level hitting

They advanced about the same, though Winn advanced in status in AAA whereas Lewis regressed a little, and somehow Winn got promoted in 1997 while Lewis was kept down in 2004, perhaps because of his late start in baseball.  So Winn got to the show faster but I wonder if that had to do with Tampa Bay because his minor league stats were worse than Lewis' but he got advanced while Lewis had to stay on a steady course.  Again, probably due partly to his late start playing baseball fulltime.

Given that Winn grew in power during the peak years of 28-32 to low-to-mid teen HR power from high single digit power, I think that Lewis can reach that level already if he started next year and boost to the low 20 HR level during those peak years.

Unfortunately, like Winn, there are too many CS to go with his steals, so that's not good.  Lewis is similar to Ellison in that way, neither used their speed to good advantage, I've been hoping that Roberts could teach him a thing or two since he learned at the feet of Maury Wills and he had a very high percentage success rate last year, around 90% if I remember right.  

Some people don't like getting Roberts, but I thought he was perfect, he doesn't play everyday, so we could give our younger players playing time, he steals a lot of bases, so that gives our offense another dimension it hasn't had in a while, we have a boat load of speedsters coming up the system, how cool would that be if Roberts teaches all of them during spring training the next couple of years, how to successfully steal bases?

Everything written here about Lewis is at minimum what other team's scouts have been saying about him, so this brief period of success won't trick any team into accepting him in a trade and giving us more value.  And unless we get more value in trade, I think we are better off keeping him in our farm system and giving him a chance in the OF, once the Giants are done with Bonds.  

He has a lot of good tools, and from what I read of him and heard from him, he sounds like a very sincere young man who is determined to make the majors.  Not that others don't, but it's that gut feeling you get sometimes when you hear someone.

In addition, including him as a throw-in in a trade (and that's what he would be if packaged with Sanchez) is just a waste, Sanchez is good enough a prospect to get another team's good position prospect without a throw in.  I think we would be better served to keep our OF prospects and let them battle it out over the next few years, we aren't going to get more value for them in trade if they are just going to be throw ins.

Also, people often forget that while the very good RF hit much higher, average RF's hit around 770-780 OPS, and that is not that bad as long as you have other players on the team who are above average, like Durham and Bonds.  

If Lewis can hit in the low 800 OPS, that's not bad.  Out of the 17 players who started in RF and played enough to qualify for the batting title, 7th to 9th hit around 830 OPS (10th 799).  In terms of RF for each team, a low 800 OPS put you around 8th to 14th out of 30 teams.  Sure, that's not great by any means, but that's certainly above average and I would take an above average position player at this point, wouldn't you?

So why waste him as a throw in?  See if he can continue to develop, see if he can put it all together, particularly if Roberts can teach him to use his speed properly.  Why spit on him now while he is doing well, let him play out and see what he can become.  At minimum, he's a Randy Winn type for cheap for another 4-5 years; if he continues to develop, and his double power turns into homers, we could have a top RF.

"No batboy can throw a ball like that." - Randy Winn, when someone noted that Lincecum look like a teenage batboy

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 24, 2007 3:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
Start posting about the Giants »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

S589323221_92432_3440_small
KNBR Spring Training Schedule
Hidey-fern_small
OT: Classics Video Games
Small
Quote of the day

Recent FanPosts

Game_small
OT: To You SF Natives
Timbreakin_small
OT: Super Bowl Losers: Colts, Advertisements
Tempesque7189_small
Elitist East Coast McCC meet up.
Hb307-1_small
Angel Villalona Community List Poll
Lakfjla_small
OT: Super Bowl Predictions
Small
The In Context Case For The Franchise Getting $13M
Hatoyama-southpark_small
Your 2013 World Series Champions! (2k9)
Small
My National Pastime Can Beat Up Your National Pastime

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Overlord

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant

Minions

Dog2_small kenshin1

Munnyme_small Natto

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Goofus_small Goofus

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Det_7193_small jponry

Minor League Guru

Small steve S