How about this Lewis kid
I guess this probably doesn't warrent a totally seperate diary but Lewis has been (imho) a good player in his breif stint in the majors.
He has been hitting for average, has great speed, decent defense, and a great attitude. He had a couple of rough games but seems to have a short memory when it comes to those things (me like).
Is it still early enough that we can call this a fluke or does he have he tools to make it?
Sub question:
I really like his stroke and it seems as if he could hit for pretty good power if he sticks with it. What do you think?
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41 comments
Comments
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by nostocksjustbonds on May 23, 2007 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
Love his approach at the plate. Patient, good stroke. He more than held his own againt Roy Oswalt, one of the very best pitchers in baseball, twice within 5 games. Very impressive. Better question: If he keeps this up, should Roberts get his starting job back?
The Timmy fever seems to be dying down a bit, but is anyone else more impressed by last night's performance than anything else we've seen so far. Once again, hung in there after falling behind early against Oswalt. Didn't really have the K pitch going but got it done with control and groundballs. Man, I'm quietly impressed and I almost like that better than if he came in and just blew the doors off.
by DrBGiantsfan on May 23, 2007 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by nostocksjustbonds on May 23, 2007 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro is becoming a beast
by wilriv21 on May 23, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by Lyle on May 23, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by Lyle on May 23, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum's K numbers
by W8ingForATitle on May 23, 2007 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by mxmob33 on May 23, 2007 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
If Tim can keep the opponents from hitting the ball hard and from drawing walks even when he doesn't have his good stuff, the sky would appear to be the limit.
by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by jponry on May 23, 2007 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 23, 2007 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by Roger on May 23, 2007 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by camwoody on May 23, 2007 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by camwoody on May 23, 2007 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny either way
by Pants Man on May 23, 2007 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by sfgfan on May 23, 2007 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
But, it is almost bizarre how little he does with his speed at this point in his career. He is uncertain with his OF routes to the ball and makes a base running mistake almost every time he is on the paths. But I gotta figure this will get better with time. It'd be great if he could ever play CF, which would be more important to his career and to the Giants than his stealing bases.
by GiantJim on May 23, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
To compound matters, Tim then walked the next hitter, and both runners moved up on a passed ball. But two strikeouts and a ground ball to shortstop later, both runners were stranded at second and third, respectively.
The Giants could help Tim out a bit if they knew how to position themselves better not only for the hitters Tim faces, but for his own unique pitching itself.
Batters have a hard time pulling Tim's pitches with authority, so the middle infielders should hug the middle. And the corner infielders should generally play off the line to the hitter's pull side, but play essentially a double's defense to the hitter's off field. The exception would be that the first baseman should also play a doubles defense against lefthanded batters, since they have a propensity for grounding Tim's curve down the first base line.
The center fielder should shade the pull field only slightly, and the corner outfielders should play pretty much straight away to the pull field, but shallow and near the line to the off field.
Think back to a few plays in particular from Tuesday's game.
In the first inning, Tim tipped a ball up the middle, allowing Omar Vizquel to come up the middle and throw the batter out. Later, Omar made a nice play to his left against a lefty hitter to throw him out to end another inning. Omar should have been closer to the middle to begin with on both plays.
Ray Durham made a nice play up the middle to throw out a batter/runner. He also would benefit from playing a couple more steps toward the middle.
Had Pedro Feliz been in a doubles defense against Mike Lamb leading off the fourth inning, he would likely have turned Mike's bouncing double down the line into a relatively easy out.
Likewise if Freddie Lewis had been playing more shallow and closer to the line against the following batter, righthanded hitting Mark Loretta, the ball that tipped off his glove down the line would have been a fairly routine play.
I'm sure the Giants do a fine job of scouting the opposing hitters. It would be useful if in the case of Tim, they also did a better job of scouting the hitting patterns given up to opposing batters AGAINST Tim.
by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by JakeS on May 23, 2007 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by JakeS on May 23, 2007 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freddie has been refreshing
by wilriv21 on May 23, 2007 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
I still don't like his overall package. Once again, what it comes down to for me is that with his tools, he needs to play center. A light-power hitting RF is not a popular thing.
That, with the mental hiccups, have me low on him.
To me, he's Randy Winn with a bit more speed and a bit less power.
I say trade him now, while misconceptions over his long-term value is high. I still would love to see him and Sanchez (or maybe even less) go to the White Sox for Fields.
by BruteSentiment on May 23, 2007 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by howtheyscored on May 23, 2007 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by English Professor on May 23, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
seriously, trade freddie? cuz of one brief mental mistake when he hustled for the ball, missed it and ended up in the stands?
he is the kind of player that is fun to watch...something that has been sorely lacking on this team (except for omar)
after watching hit and miss guys like linden, both freddie and ort have been a breath of fresh air
and dingers dont win you championships...hard nosed players do
by bacci40 on May 23, 2007 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by JakeS on May 23, 2007 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
DID YOU KNOW HE PLAYED FOOTBALL?
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by Roger on May 23, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by jponry on May 23, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
Worse, even Hiatt has said that he takes it to the plate with him, which is the reason they said they moved him to left three years ago and he hasn't (and apparently won't ever) move back to center.
At least he's in right, but he's still the tools that should be a center fielder, not a right fielder. And since we'd never get the full value out of him as a player that he could probably get in a trade, yes, trade him.
by BruteSentiment on May 23, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by Roger on May 24, 2007 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
I think Josh is closer to his potential than Jonathan -- but that Sanchez's ceiling is a fair amount higher.
by sharksrog on May 26, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
by zenbitz on May 23, 2007 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: How about this Lewis kid
But it was around 25 when Niekro started hitting with power and 25 when Linden made his great leap in power. Lewis made a big leap last year, going from 73.1 AB/HR in 2005 to 36.6 AB/HR in 2006 (25), and this year in minors, 28.5 AB/HR, he's 26 this year.
Looking at Randy Winn's career minor league stats, he had even less power than Lewis coming up and starting in the majors, so I have no doubt in my mind that Lewis can out homer Winn but steals look like it could be a push, if given the chance for similar ABs. And Randy didn't become a full time starter until he was 28, though he did put in signficant time in the majors starting at 24, so that's similar to Lewis getting his first extended taste of the majors at 26.
Winn seems like a good comparison for Lewis. Lewis looks good for mid-teens to 20 homer power, 20-30 steals ability, but he appears to be able to get on base better than Winn and appears to have more power than Winn coming up. Given that Winn has been a hit 700 OPS hitter in the majors, that suggests, assuming Lewis can keep on developing, that Lewis can be a low 800 OPS hitter, which would be above average for a RF, just not as many homers as one might desire in a corner OF. A good 4th OF is pretty apt I would say, but at 800+ OPS, that should be starter level hitting
They advanced about the same, though Winn advanced in status in AAA whereas Lewis regressed a little, and somehow Winn got promoted in 1997 while Lewis was kept down in 2004, perhaps because of his late start in baseball. So Winn got to the show faster but I wonder if that had to do with Tampa Bay because his minor league stats were worse than Lewis' but he got advanced while Lewis had to stay on a steady course. Again, probably due partly to his late start playing baseball fulltime.
Given that Winn grew in power during the peak years of 28-32 to low-to-mid teen HR power from high single digit power, I think that Lewis can reach that level already if he started next year and boost to the low 20 HR level during those peak years.
Unfortunately, like Winn, there are too many CS to go with his steals, so that's not good. Lewis is similar to Ellison in that way, neither used their speed to good advantage, I've been hoping that Roberts could teach him a thing or two since he learned at the feet of Maury Wills and he had a very high percentage success rate last year, around 90% if I remember right.
Some people don't like getting Roberts, but I thought he was perfect, he doesn't play everyday, so we could give our younger players playing time, he steals a lot of bases, so that gives our offense another dimension it hasn't had in a while, we have a boat load of speedsters coming up the system, how cool would that be if Roberts teaches all of them during spring training the next couple of years, how to successfully steal bases?
Everything written here about Lewis is at minimum what other team's scouts have been saying about him, so this brief period of success won't trick any team into accepting him in a trade and giving us more value. And unless we get more value in trade, I think we are better off keeping him in our farm system and giving him a chance in the OF, once the Giants are done with Bonds.
He has a lot of good tools, and from what I read of him and heard from him, he sounds like a very sincere young man who is determined to make the majors. Not that others don't, but it's that gut feeling you get sometimes when you hear someone.
In addition, including him as a throw-in in a trade (and that's what he would be if packaged with Sanchez) is just a waste, Sanchez is good enough a prospect to get another team's good position prospect without a throw in. I think we would be better served to keep our OF prospects and let them battle it out over the next few years, we aren't going to get more value for them in trade if they are just going to be throw ins.
Also, people often forget that while the very good RF hit much higher, average RF's hit around 770-780 OPS, and that is not that bad as long as you have other players on the team who are above average, like Durham and Bonds.
If Lewis can hit in the low 800 OPS, that's not bad. Out of the 17 players who started in RF and played enough to qualify for the batting title, 7th to 9th hit around 830 OPS (10th 799). In terms of RF for each team, a low 800 OPS put you around 8th to 14th out of 30 teams. Sure, that's not great by any means, but that's certainly above average and I would take an above average position player at this point, wouldn't you?
So why waste him as a throw in? See if he can continue to develop, see if he can put it all together, particularly if Roberts can teach him to use his speed properly. Why spit on him now while he is doing well, let him play out and see what he can become. At minimum, he's a Randy Winn type for cheap for another 4-5 years; if he continues to develop, and his double power turns into homers, we could have a top RF.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on May 24, 2007 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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