MVN - Mock Draft

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 5:40 PM PDT

The mock draft going on at MVN just fell to the Giants pick at 10.

It was justin Heyward based on the conferring of the three writers.

agree, disagree, good pick, bad pick?

begin arguementation.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Tweet Comment 46 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

sorry link is at

http://mvn.com/mlb-draft/2007/05/21/10-san-francisco-giants-jason-heyward/

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 5:39 PM PDT reply actions

drool

I'm sold.

Tim Lincecum has been freed!

by nostocksjustbonds on May 21, 2007 5:45 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

I know BruteSentiment has expressed concern about his swing, but I did like reading there that he has a patient approach at the plate.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 21, 2007 5:47 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

yeah i've looked at his swing a lot as well.

his head drops which will cause a lot of popups and he doesn't use his lower body as well as he should. However, these are fairly easily correctable and neither are too big of a problem. He has great polish (for a high school kid) and the ability to foul off good pitches.

If he's there, we must take him.

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

BA says he has Willie McCovey tools and his approach is similar to Frank Thomas.

When's the last time we had a player in our organization with Willie McCovey tools? Willie McCovey?

Tim Lincecum has been freed!

by nostocksjustbonds on May 21, 2007 5:50 PM PDT reply actions

Willie Mac

I grew up in the Wille Mac Era. He was the first comp I thought of when I saw the scouting video of Heyward. I like his build, stance and swing much better than Michael Burgess. I would also take him over Moustakas. Haven't seen video of Vitters or Beau Mills. Like Heyward over LaPorta.

by DrBGiantsfan on May 21, 2007 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Haha good to get your guys feedback. I was the one who made the pick.

Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on May 21, 2007 5:54 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

gooood pick.

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

I don't like it.

Let me quote what was told to Scout.com's draft insider:

The word has not circulated much as of yet, but according to sources, Jason Heyward will not be picked in the first 15 picks of the first round. Not only that but there are now many doubts surfacing about his swing. "Heyward will be the bust of this draft," one crosschecker explained. "He will not go in the top 15. He is the miss of this draft. He is an arm and upper body swinger and he doesn't work with his lower half."

I would be very upset with Heyward with ANY of the first three picks.

by BruteSentiment on May 21, 2007 6:28 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

He's also 17 years old, so he's got quite a while to work with coaches to become a lower body swinger.

Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on May 21, 2007 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Top 15 picks should not have major flaws like adjusting their lower half to their upper half to deal with. I don't think first round picks should have that in general. And this is before discussing the head-drop.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

he does utilize his lower half, watch the video of his swing. He just doesn't do it that much. And his bat is still crazy quick!

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

My knowledge of the draft class is fairly limited but I think he looks OK. I mean the team employs coaches in the minors for a reason right? Besides, if he were to slip lower he could potentially be a good pick for us below #10, perhaps even #21 if he is sliding. Also, and maybe this is wishing too much, if he is 17 and Villalona is 16 then they could possibly be advancing as prospects together and/or reach the Giants at the same time. I realize that last sentence was a hugely optomistic wish.

I adopted Barry Bonds

by BondsApologist on May 21, 2007 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Villalona will be behind him in development.

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions

BigFoot, Saquatch ,Yeti and Villalona

I am beginning to think this kid is a myth

by wilriv21 on May 21, 2007 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Why do you say that? Is it because of the cultural difference or physical or do you think that Villalona's baseball skills are less developed?

I adopted Barry Bonds

by BondsApologist on May 21, 2007 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Fine with me!

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on May 21, 2007 6:28 PM PDT reply actions

Was Moustakas off the board at #10?

by wilriv21 on May 21, 2007 6:50 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Was Moustakas off the board at #10?

No, here are the picks thus far.

http://mvn.com/mlb-draft/mvn-mock-draft/

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Still walking a batter per inning in AAA.

by sfgreg on May 21, 2007 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Thank you

Any reason Heyward over Moustakas?

by wilriv21 on May 21, 2007 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Thank you

Moustakas - good

Heyward - possible #4 hitter with a significantly larger upside. He has a more projectable swing as well, I think.

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Moustakas just doesnt have the tools Heyward has. I feel Heyward is going to be the superior Major Leaguer, and will be more successful at the Major League level. Not to mention Moustakas has Scott Boras as an agent, and a full ride to USC ahead of him, effecting his signability as a prospect. In terms of talent, it's almost a tossup between him and Heyward, but in the end Heyward is more signable, and to me has a bigger upside.

Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on May 21, 2007 7:10 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

agreed on every single point. One thing though, uh it's "a-ffecting" not "e-ffecting".

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 21, 2007 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

My bad. My 7th grade grammar's a bit rusty...damn the difference between a verb and a noun!

Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on May 21, 2007 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Please report to the grammar thread.

Tim Lincecum has been freed!

by nostocksjustbonds on May 22, 2007 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Okay I'm sorry, but this Heyward thing is getting to the point of exaggeration. According to some, Mills is a DH...but Heyward has more tools than Moustakas? Neither are cited much for their defensive abilities, and Heyward is projected as a LF/1B at best. Moustakas is projected as a 3B. What's more valuable defensively?

Heyward defensively? From the video I saw (admittingly, the definition of small sample size, and all in warmups): He takes more baby steps in approaching an incoming ball/throwing a ball than Jeff George playing against a blitz; he has slow reactions to bounces; his throws are lanky, and covering seems to be an afterthought.

Yes, all fixable....but how much crap is supposed to be fixed....for what, fast hands?

Let me put it this way: A power hitter with a moving viewpoint and an upper body not in sync with its lower body is a hitter who waves at breaking pitches like he needs glasses. Batspeed is important, but so is overall body control.

He's got too many things to fix for me to even consider in the first round. I wouldn't be as opposed to him being a project from the sandwich round, but he shouldn't be viewed as anything other than that: a project.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Project

Anytime you draft a 17 yo, isn't it a project? I mean, you don't expect him to play in the majors sooner than 4 years at the earliest, right?

by DrBGiantsfan on May 22, 2007 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Project

Well, yeah, thats sort of true. The difference being, though, the guy is a 17-year old with tons of VITAL fixes that need to occur before he could even begin sniffing regular playtime. He's a project in not only that he's 17 with "experience" that has to be taught to him, his entire swing is going to have to be re-worked. Thats like pressing the reset button, almost.

While I'm not MLB draft expert, and my knowledge of prospects is minimal, at best, I agree with Brute. First round picks, especially in a draft like this one (where the Giants want to turn around their position player woes before all the pitchers are gone), should not have too many big question marks in them. You'd think that drafting someone that high, they should be fairly close to a finished product. At least mechanically speaking.

by sfgfan on May 22, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Project

That's why I would slightly favor taking Mills. Not sure why, but I'm not at all sold on Moustakas.

by DrBGiantsfan on May 22, 2007 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Project

I actually like both. Moustakas, if taken, could force Villalona to the outfield. Mills on the other hand, wouldn't.

I like Mills in that he sounds like a really good hitter. It also sounds like while he doesn't have very much range, he's good with the glove, so maybe first base is really in his future.

Moustakas, I think, would probably end up playing third. It sounds like his range is a knock on him, but at the same time, he played SS. So who knows really. I just know that from what I've read on Villalona, he's probably more athletic, which makes moving him to the outfield more plausible.

Whichever is taken, they will probably arrive in the show the at the same time with Villalona, so thats something that'll take some consideration.

by sfgfan on May 22, 2007 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Project

FWIW while Moutsakas is typically projected as 3B or RF, I've actually read some people who think he could be successfully moved to catcher due to his extreme arm strength, so he's a guy who comes with options. I really don't believe when you're talking about corner people you should worry about blocking issues with teenagers. Having two prospects develop to major league capability would be a very good thing regardless of position, those things work themselves out.

by Roger on May 22, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Project

Absolutely.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on May 22, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Just ot be clear, when you say "neither are cited for their defensive abilities" you're not talking about Moustakas, right? From what I understand he's an exceptional defensive player with soft hands and a plus plus defensive arm. And I guess with enough range to play a decent high school SS, even if 3B is his more natural position.

by Roger on May 22, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Moutakas' arm has been complimented, but the MiLB scouting report specifically points out his poor range as his biggest weakness.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

I think you're overstating the negative in this report. As I read it they're specifically referring to his range at SS. The report says he has limited (not poor) range, "the reason why he'll probably move to third as a pro."

by Roger on May 22, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Brute, I think you're overstating the problems with Heyward. You keep referring to the quote from one scout. Baseball America has a wide network of scouts and executives it talks to and rates Heyward very highly. So does Keith Law at ESPN.

I agree that Heyward has some flaws, but he's still a fine draft prospect.

by Dan from NM on May 22, 2007 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

I don't think you have an accurate picture of BA: they have about a dozen full-time writers, a couple of dozen stringers for local reports (including Andy Baggerly of the Merc), and no scouts (to my knowledge) that actually work for them. What they do have is a number of contacts, and just like the Scout.com writers that I quote, a lot of that info comes from those contacts.

I keep repeating that one quote because it jives with what I see with my own eyes. I do like that he has no hitch in his swing, and he does have great handspeed, but there are simply too many major changes that need to be made to his mechanics for me to even consider him this high.

Assuming that Wieters and Vitters are off the board, the guys I'd consider would be Mills or Moustakas on the hitting side, or Parker or Bleavan on the pitching side. I'd grab Wieters if he were available, as there is increasing talk he may slide with contract demands.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Not sure if I'm comfortable downgrading a 17 yr old so much based off technique. He's got some incredible natural ability, that is the stuff you can't teach.

by mxmob33 on May 22, 2007 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Just because he's got the stuff that can't be taught doesn't mean he'll necessarily learn the stuff the needs to be taught.

Everything's obviously a risk in a draft, and yes, high schoolers are all projects, but that's the kind of risk I don't want to take with a first round, and especially a Top 15, pick

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

The upton twins were picked 1 and 2, with major holes in their game.

the potential for a #4 hitter is pretty large with this kid. His defense is underrated, he does dip into the swing and underutilizes his lower body but he still generates enormous power right now. He'll be at least three years away, but come on would you draft willie mays?

There's never a sure thing in the amateur draft, ever.

and you talk about the two pitchers, both of whom have major mechanical flaws that I saw (ESPECIALLY BRACKMAN!!!)

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 22, 2007 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

When did I talk about Brackman (other than the draft that had him selected by the Giants, something I did not entirely support)?

If you'd like to see who I would take, see one of the above comments.

Yes, he generates enormous power now....against high school kids who throw mostly fastballs. A dip in the swing is less of a problem against straight pitches, but curves and sinkers are going to kill this kid.

The Willie Mays comparison is utter bullshit, though. Sorry, Willie was a five-tool player even before the Giants signed him. Heyward is a corner outfielder at best, first baseman at worst on defense, and doesn't have plus speed, and his defensive mechanics also leave a lot to be desired (but they are easier things to fix....but again, HOW MANY THINGS NEED TO BE FIXED?)

He has two plus tools: Power, and frankly, I have concerns it'll translate well to the pros, and plate discipline. That's not enough to justify drafting a fixer-upper with a top pick.

As I said, I'd like the trade-off risk if he lasts into the Sandwich round, but not with a top pick.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

sorry on two counts. I meant to say Mccovey, and not brackman, beavan. I hate beaven's arm slot, his stride and his underwhelming secondary pitches.

And besides the head dip in his swing (Which both Vitters and Wieters have), Heyward doesn't have problems so much as adjustments that need to be made. He has 3+ years in the minors to polish his game. I think he can be a good right fielder actually (his only real defensive deficiency is hesitation).

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 22, 2007 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Ah, well, suddenly that doesn't sound as ridiculous.

I'm not going to comment on the McCovey comparisons. I never got to see McCovey play, and certainly never saw him as an amateur, but from what I've seen of old video, I don't see much similarity except in them being tall with long swings.

I have not seen Wieters on video, (if you have a link, please share) but I have seen Vitters on milb.com. Does Vitters have a dip? Yes, but it's a fraction of Heyward's (maybe an inch or two). The thing is that Vitters's dip is easily fixed, it's in his step. His step goes out about twice as far as it needs to, and with it being a very heel-out step, that's why his head and body drops. That's easily fixable by shortening the step without changing his swing dynamic much.

This isn't the case with Heyward. Heyward's step is very short, just as it should be, and while he steps into the heel, the heel isn't out very much. He does land a little bent-legged (part of the lower-body mechanics issues), which can lead to some of the dip, but the dip continues after the step ends, indicating there's more to it.

And "adjustments to be made" = "problems." Just about every problem can be fixed, but fixing problems aren't as easy as it sounds, and are no sure things to happen. And every problem/adjustment is something more that can stop/slow a player's development. The more of them there are, the more chances there are. And with a top pick, don't do it.

If you don't like Beavan's arm slot, well, I don't blame you, a low 3/4's slot can be quite problematic (Jonathan Sanchez) for some, and one would think with his height an overhand delivery would be best. But I do think it's early to write off his secondary pitches, and I love the movement he was getting with his fastball in his video; he had some that broke away (as expected) to right handed hitters, and some that broke back in gorgeously. If that's movement he controls (which I imagine that is), that's practically a second pitch. With that movement on a fastball and that velocity, all he'd really need to add would be a changeup to be a legitimate starter prospect.

I didn't see much otherwise in his mechanics I thought was really bad. Warning signs, sure, but no current problems needing fixing. But that's just my opinion...like with batters, there's lots of feelings about pitchers and what's 'proper' and what's not.

by BruteSentiment on May 23, 2007 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

sorry i watched some game on tv with wieters in it. Vitters problems at the plate? just as big as Heywards. Heywards dip can be easily fixed by starting him by bending his knees at his load, not going down into it. It's a much easier mechanical fix than you think. Mccovey and Heyward both look like they have long swings, but in truth they extend for outside pitches but are rather quick inside. I see vitters mechanics as being just as big of a problem (he'll be off balance all the time).

Beaven's arm slot scares me and yes he has a huge fastball, but i really don't see him as more than a reliever. His stride and use of his body is atrocious. he has a huge arm now but i don't think he can keep his velocity past 27. He has major problems to fix, though he looks smooth. I don't think he's worth a top 15 pick. Though he could be a closer in the future, there are just too many problems with his overall mechanics to justify such a lofty pick. I think you are overemphasizing all the problems that heyward has. There has never been a perfect player out of the draft and i don't think Heyward's problems are all that overwhelming.

Lincecum, Lincecum 12 stories tall, made of radiation.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 23, 2007 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

FWIW, people tend to think of McCovey has having a very long swing and it was, but it was actually quite quick and compact to contact, it was only through contact, the full uncoiling that was long. I may not be making myself too clear, but there is a difference between having a long swing that slows you up getting to the ball (which frequently involves some kind of hitch) and a long extension through the swing after contact, which is what Mac had. From start of swing to contact Willie's swing was much like Bonds, compact and vicious, and not so much like the high leverage sweeping swings of say, Darrel Strawberry and Ken Griffey.

An interesting thing about "fixing problems" is that it's really on ongoing process throughout a career. I just saw a piece on Baseball Tonight on Albert Pujols' swing this year and why he's having such problems, and they were breaking down almost exactly the same problem that Brute's noting in Heyward's swing. His base stance has gotten a little narrower which is causing a bit of a dip in his back leg in his step and a bobble of the head that's making him lose tracking sight of the high fastball he usually crushes. Fixing your swing never ends.

by Roger on May 24, 2007 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MVN - Mock Draft

Someone I'd like to draft (though not in the first six picks, but maybe before round 10): Erik Davis, RHP, Stanford

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2878650

His stuff doesn't really matter (all I can find is 'pro-style stuff' mentioned in the article)...but I like guys like that. Even if he doesn't succeed, having inspirational players can really affect other players positively.

Davis wasn't listed in BA's Top 200.

by BruteSentiment on May 22, 2007 7:52 PM PDT reply actions