We all knew it would happen

by Salemicus on May 1, 2007 10:41 PM PDT Comment 13 comments

It was just a matter of time before he turned back into a pumpkin.

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It's not even midnite

Russ has performed admirably. Tonight was a rough start.

by wilriv21 on May 1, 2007 10:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: We all knew it would happen

So is Roos on the short leash now or will he get the ball again?

Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 1, 2007 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I know this has been endlessly debated,

but since Tim is soooooo deserving of a call up, AND the bullpen has had some troubles...

by moonman on May 1, 2007 10:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

Cool, so we'll concurrently bail on Morris, Lowry, Ortiz, Chulk, Taschner, and what the hell Hennessey while we're at it, all for the sake of desperately making room for one guy who we want to start but would really do a great job of fixing our bullpen hole...

So here's the deal. I said it once already.

Ortiz as a fifth starter before tonight has shown extreme worth for his value with the statistics to back up probably sustainability. In fact, he's the only starter who we have who, statistically speaking, can pitch as well as he had been for the rest of the year.

Statistically speaking, Either Morris or Lowry or both are due to fall off of a serious cliff anytime in about the next month. We should go by what can be expected. Ortiz can be expected to fill his role as well or better than he had filled it before tonight. Morris or Lowry can be expected to totally crap out. Wait until you can get rid of one of the guys who cannot sustain acceptable production for the rest of the year. It should not be long. Wait it out. Do not put yourself a decent starter down and two time bombs waiting to happen for the sake of moving quickly. Much better to have Linc, a decent Ortiz, and only one of those two time bombs.

Or, deal one of the time bombs now. I vote Morris, but there is dissenting opinion. But seriously, play the odds on this one.

If, by extreme luck, we keep getting honest production out of these guys we can bring Linc temporarily into the bullpen to solve something there. When he moves to the rotation, replace with Misch or Sadler. If he starts in the rotation, we have Misch or Sadler to solve the bullpen.

But calling for Ortiz's head does not make sense right now. He's been solid, and he can actually back it up with his peripherals.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on May 1, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

sorry moonman, that wasn't directed specifically at you, but more toward a general lunatic group here who are just waiting for any pitcher to have a single bad outing.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on May 1, 2007 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

No worries. Actually, I realized I was probably speaking hastily, or at the very least not articulating what was actually in my mind. I was not exactly calling for Ortiz' head or hoping he get's DFA'd or sent down. But I do think that IF you were to reorganize the pitching staff to make room for Lincecum it might actually help the team to move Ortiz to the bullpen. Not to bury him... I think he could actually be effective there and maybe improve the overall strength of the staff.

I think there's a strong and well justified desire to see what Lincecum could do up here. Not only because we're so anxious to see him on the big stage, but also because we could really use him. And I think we've all run through various scenarios that would sensibly make this happen.

And, for whatever it matters, given how his career has gone over the last few years I think Ortiz might be the one starter who's ego could handle the move without interpreting it as a demotion. If the same thing happened to Morris or Lowry it might look like they were being given up on. I don't know how much this should really matter, but I'm just thinking Ortiz wouldn't come off looking so bad if this move were made.

Then again, and most of you would know better that I, there is the question of whether or not Ortiz would make a good bullpener. To me he seems like someone who could handle the 5th through 8th pretty regularly but I don't know how that would work out.

by moonman on May 2, 2007 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

Some of the Coven have lost their collective minds as if everybody forgot about the reality of rushing young first year prospects. Its getting beyond overenthusiasm and venturing into the hallucinigenic state of delirium known as Dodgeritis.

Save Matt Morris. Save The Pitchers. Save The World.

by E Ticket on May 2, 2007 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

A few more bad starts would cause me to disagree with you, How, but right now I have to agree that you're right on the money.

I think Brian should work quickly on trading either Lowry or preferably Morris due to his age and contract, before they do indeed at least decline if not in a cliff-like fashion.

by sharksrog on May 1, 2007 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sustainabilty?

Did you see the game last night? It looked like Ortiz performance was sustainable alright. Those weren't just the laws of chance catching up with him out there. Those were batting practice pitches and the Rocks were teeing off. If this was 2001 or 2002, you might shrug it off as "just a bad game," but in the context of Russ' record the last two years, it is ominous indeed. Add in that his performances have been getting progressively shaky this year. Either his mechanics have gone south again, or his arm is done. Either way, it doesn't bode well for recovery anytime soon. I can see giving him another start just to be sure, but I would expect the outcome to be similar. Let's see, a washed up Russ Ortiz vs the hottest pitching prospect we've had since, well, since Juan Marichal, no contest in my mind.

by DrBGiantsfan on May 2, 2007 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

Do you still blame splitsville?

Mandowear | comics | Sugarman FTW

by Natto on May 2, 2007 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I know this has been endlessly debated,

Forever and always.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on May 2, 2007 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: We all knew it would happen

If his name was Joe Fifthstarter, no one would say much other than, "you know that Joe, good outings here and there, mediocre mostly, and sometimes just terrible". That's what fifth starters do, our problem is that Lowry this year and Morris last year look like 5th starters. His job is to throw 5 or six innings and keep the game close, and if he can keep the bullpen out of it until the 7th or 8th that's plenty. In fact he surprised me in his last start because he stunk it up for a couple of innings and then became lights out for three or so, which I take as a very positive sign- again, in the context of a fifth guy.

If St. Lincecum is to be called up, I concur with howetc. that it will be to replace Lowry or Morris (who's pitching much, much better thus far). Ortiz is cheap and fine in his role, unless of course this is indeed the beginning of the end (cf. Jamey Wright). But everyone on this staff (except maybe Cain) will have at least one or two clinkers this year.

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on May 2, 2007 6:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: We all knew it would happen

Ortiz, so far has overperformed as a 5th starter.

Morris + Lowry have underperformed.

Give all three time. If ortiz continues to struggle, bullpen + Lince up.

if the other two struggle trade them away for a young bat, please.

it's really easy, even using simple stats. So Sabean, you have made a couple good decisions and a bunch of really shitty ones. Finish strong so you leave a good taste in our mouths after you are washed out.

Thank you

This post has been brought to you by the somewhat unrealated department of Justice.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on May 2, 2007 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs