State of the Rotation
by Grant on Apr 23, 2007 9:03 AM PDT
in News
141 comments
TAKE THAT, FLOPPY MCGEE! J-RICH UP IN YOUR FACE WITH THE REJECTION AND LALALAOINUB;VNO OHMFG BARNES WITH THE DAGGER THREE! PUT IN FOYLE! PUT IN FOYLE!
Sorry. I set my brain to the "Remember Yesterday's Game"-setting, and the signals got crossed.
We've now seen the range of Barry Zito: no runs to seven runs, all crammed into six or seven innings, but usually erring on the effective side of the ledger. We've also seen the range of Matt Cain: one hit or two, all couched within that cocoon of average upside. He has a real good chance to be the next Mark Gardner or John Thomson.
The rest of the rotation is where the debate comes in, though. Noah Lowry's last start was a best-case Lowry performance. His control was working well enough to keep him away from three-ball counts, and he was throwing his curve and change effectively. The change was especially nice to see, as Lowry usually only has full custody of it for August. A lot of whatever preseason optimism could be mustered had to do with a possible Lowry rebound, and it would be oh-so-nice to get dependable pitching from another pitcher who is locked up for the future.
As for the last two: ERAs be damned, it seems more realistic right now that Tim Lincecum is going to take Matt Morris's rotation spot than that of Russ Ortiz. I was harsh on the Russ Ortiz idea when he was still a winter ball myth, harsher still when the Giants actually took a chance on him, but everyone started to warm up to him after his dominating spring. The reports of increased velocity were not exaggerated, and he's looked like the Russ of old: a pitcher who was almost a lock for 200 innings with an ERA between 3.00 and 4.00. Maybe he'll have a Jamey Wrightastic blowup, but he hasn't given any indication that will happen.
Morris has looked like Morris. Nibble, nibble, nibble, CURVE. Nibble, CURVE, CURVE, CURVE, nibble. The only difference between this Morris and last year's version is that Morris has only allowed one home run this season. That rate will change. It isn't realistic for the Giants to ship him off now, and that's perfectly understandable, but it's plausible to concoct a scenario where the Giants get a surprising amount of value for Morris. It's also plausible to concoct a scenario where Morris is released into the arms of a team hoping for the next Dustin Hermanson.
Too early to talk about, probably. But this is a dead pool kind of thread. Does Morris or Ortiz move over for Lincecum? Or does Lincecum, gasp, get buried in some sort of inconsistent relief role? I'd prefer he just hung out in Fresno if it came to that. It isn't a bad problem to have.
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Definitely the question of the day
Personally, I like the idea of trading Morris and Niekro. Ortiz has the feel-good value going that Morris doesn't, and just might be a better pitcher right now. Oh, and Ortiz costs us hardly anything. So quietly shop Morris...
If that DOES happen, then we've strengthened the lineup (yeah, I think a young decent bat could be had) AND potentially the rotation as well with a Lincecum call-up. Me likey very much.
If that trade DOESN'T happen, then I am on the fence on Lincecum in relief. Nobody in our pen has really fallen apart- yet. And nobody in our starting rotation has been a problem either.
Keep Lincecum at Fresno until a problem reveals itself. If the problem is in the bullpen, throw the other youngsters at it at first, although they'll probably flounder. Lincecum is our closer ace-in-the-hole; if Benitez can be traded, or blows up, or whatever, we have Lincecum. I am NOT convinced it will hurt his magical arm from outer space. If the problem is in the starting rotation (injury, or Wright-Tomko-collapse), then it's an easy one.
We have a good situation as Grant said. Let's not rush things if we don't have to.
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by rotorueter on Apr 23, 2007 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boo-ya!
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by JakeS on Apr 23, 2007 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
b) We've got more. Morris is the centerpiece. We got plenty of attachments we can add.
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
I will say this though, the Reds have a recent history of giving up slumping position players with questionable defensive pedigrees for overrated pitchers.
by rotorueter on Apr 23, 2007 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
I'm pretty sure they want none of those the giants have.
by awesomer on Apr 23, 2007 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by Larson2042 on Apr 23, 2007 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by Mordy From Monsey on Apr 23, 2007 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by JakeS on Apr 23, 2007 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by Goofus on Apr 23, 2007 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Definitely the question of the day
by joebirdie3 on Apr 23, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rxmeister on Apr 23, 2007 9:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe you.
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I believe you.
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harry, Meister have covered the baseball question
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 9:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let me be the first to say
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jauntily Whistling on the Road through Bataan
The Warriors cheated by using fresh, living players to carve up the cadavers down the stretch.
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim should stay in fresno
But I agree too much with the idea that the depth we have is almost unique in the league. We shouldn't give up that one advantage we have so easily.
The offense has begun to stir on this homestand. And, after quietly enjoying my optomism meds, I'll say let things keep going status quo for a while.
by Andy from DC on Apr 23, 2007 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Tim should stay in fresno
by EliminateMe on Apr 23, 2007 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Tim should stay in fresno
Turned out that instead of fine stew ingredients, the cooking vessel was filled with old engine sludge.
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
The Giants also have plenty of emergency starter candidates (Sanchez, Misch, Blackley, Hennessy), so I'm not too worried about depth either.
by mxmob33 on Apr 23, 2007 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Hopefully Morris can keep pitching like he has been and we can actually get something nice out of any deal.
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
One thing's clear: Lincecum has no further business in Fresno. The Giants' leaving him there amounts to saying to their opponents, "Here, have a few extra outs. We don't mind."
by Evan on Apr 23, 2007 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Notgardo Skinny (Backup Explanation)
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
The way Tim works, I'm expecting to be heading home no later than eight. With the three-hour drive, that still won't make for an extremely early evening.
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
I mean, the non-Barry offense blows, but hot damn this has been one hell of a fun winning streak.
by Peter Bean on Apr 23, 2007 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Weaknesses: Bats then Pen
I'm not yet a believer in this year's team, but seeing them sweep the DBacks to get over .500 is a certifiably good thing.
So long as we're within striking distance of first come midseason and our rotation is still rock solid (at least 2 out of the threesome of Ortiz, Lowry, and Morris still pitching solid), hopefully we can use Morris to obtain a young bat with tons of upside. I liked the Edwin Encarnacion idea. It still pains me to think that we could've had Hanley Ramirez for Schmidt a couple seasons ago.
I think our Pen can become solid by removing Benitez. I definitely still don't buy him. A closer just can't keep dodging bullets with a WHIP hovering out 2.0. But I'm also a believer than J-San is capable of taking on the closer role with Taschner as a reliable set-up.
But it's still too early to get exuberantly optimistic. But at least it's made me enjoy watching the Giants again.
by ralphdog on Apr 23, 2007 10:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Let's just hope that Bochy is intelligent enough to not take the Phillies' advice on how to construct a bullpen. In our respective situations, the main difference is that they shoved their Morris to the bullpen first (see how it didn't work out), and they have no Lincecum. Comparing the rotations it would seem that Brett Myers=Matt Cain; but I don't think Bochy is stupid enough to pull something like that.
But, seriously, I hoping for Mr. Average Upside to land in the top 10 in the Cy Young voting, and maybe even the MVP voting. Who's with me?
by Ott on Apr 23, 2007 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
What was the question?
by McPeePee on Apr 23, 2007 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Responsible for a Monster
You virtually created "Blownitez." Where have you been while we've been trying to bury him?
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuck
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
The Yankees have just the opposite problem, witness the disaster in Boston this weekend.
How about Morris or Lowry and Linden or Winn for Bobby Abreu?
Abreu's power seems diminished but his OBP is .405 so far this year, not to mention .412 lifetime. He makes $15M this year and the Yankees have a club option at $16M next year (or $2M buyout.)
Morris makes $9.5M in 2007, another $9.5M in 2008 and the Giants have a club option in 2009 at $9M (or $1M buyout.)
Have no idea if the Yankees would entertain such a trade, and Abreu has a no-trade clause as well. But even without Abreu, the Yankees would remain a powerful offensive club with Rodriguez, Posada, Jeter, Giambi, Damon and Matsui.
If the Yankees continue to struggle due to poor pitching, they might be enticed to part with Abreu since they only have him locked up thru next year. And every month that passes, his trade value diminishes.
Wouldn't mind a lineup that has Abreu, Bonds, Durham batting in a row.
by leewhee on Apr 23, 2007 10:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am solidly against that trade
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barry, Ray, and Richie in their Cruiser...
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Barry, Ray, and Richie in their Cruiser...
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Barry, Ray, and Richie in their Cruiser...
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Do you really think that the Yankees would trade a premier middle of the line-up, run producing, 5 tool player for a 4th outfielder (Winn), and either a very average Major League starter (Lowry), or a declining older 4th or 5th starter (Morris)???? Not to mention, can you imagine what the AL East would do to Morris every 5 days??? Seriously- that cute little curve ball would get pounded day in and day out
Why not Arod instead of Abreu??- it is just crazy and a waste of time- put down the crack pipe and let's talk about trades that actually have a chance of happening
by mccormick22 on Apr 23, 2007 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Evan on Apr 23, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Abreu hit 15 HR last year, not exactly Ruthian. And his defense is heading towards average at best. With the rest of the Yankees lineup, he's a footnote. But on the Giants, he would be a major upgrade.
If not for his no-trade clause, I'd guess he's the most likely piece to get moved by the Yankees if they seek to upgrade pitching later in the season.
by leewhee on Apr 23, 2007 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he would be a major upgrade
Abreu's OPS+ was still a very good 129 last year. For comparison, Hideki Matsui's OPS+ last year was 133.
by rfloh on Apr 24, 2007 6:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by awesomer on Apr 23, 2007 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why was Abreu traded by the Phils?
The Yankees have no need to clear salary.
by rfloh on Apr 24, 2007 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by mxmob33 on Apr 23, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It came to a vote
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Evan on Apr 23, 2007 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
So the Abreu trade idea is out the window.
Now even if we could, I don't think it's a great idea to obtain another 30+ year old bat (no matter how solid of a bat). If our team is to be of any sort of threat in the future, we need solid young hitting prospects to back our great pitching.
We could've had Hanley Ramirez for Schmidt but of course the Giants brass focused on immediate gratification. They fucked up bigtime.
But if Morris can somehow maintain a sub-4.00 ERA by midseason, he's solid trade-bait which will garner a lot of interest from teams who are short on pitching. The price of pitching definitely has gone up and we can definitely cash in for a live bat.
by ralphdog on Apr 23, 2007 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"out the window"?
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: "out the window"?
Besides, an organization like the Yankees will undervalue Lowry, hence why I think the trade idea is on the absurd side.
Now if you're talking about Morris, who has post-season credentials to speak of, that's a different story. If the Yankees are still pitching depleted, then yes I think they'll bite. Top that off with Morris' salary dump and you've got a winning formula. But I don't think trading for another veteran bat is the way to go. Bring me some under-30 bats and then we can talk.
by ralphdog on Apr 23, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
I must have been on "crack" to think that a trade might be arranged between a team deep with starting pitching in need of offense and a team deep in offense in need of starting pitching.
Thanks for steering me back on the path to sanity.
As for Abreu, he may be a "5-tool" player, but he's not a "difference-maker" on the Yankees who have six other field players who could be All-Stars.
The Yankees starting pitching is woeful. A lot is riding on Wang's successful return. They are 8-9 despite having the best hitting club in baseball. They have already used seven different starters and it's only April. They even used their best starter---Pettitte---in relief yesterday to try and avoid a sweep.
It's still very early. The situation could correct itself. But if the Yankees pitching is still dreadful come June/July, I have no doubt they will try to move one of their offensive threats in exchange for mound help. Whether the Giants have the pieces to complete such a trade, with Cain and Lincecum obviously off the table, who knows.
by leewhee on Apr 23, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by mccormick22 on Apr 23, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation - Abreau
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Natto on Apr 23, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Natto on Apr 23, 2007 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We belch, we scratch, and suddenly...
(Looking up from the Websters, and parting hair with fingers). Welcome, ma'am. How do you do?
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't clean up for me
I didn't punch him, and I plan on being back in the bleachers soon. Please, keep scratching.
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Don't clean up for me
by Goofus on Apr 23, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Don't clean up for me
Randy Winn plus Matty Mo equals stomach ache.
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paging Mrs. Sizemore in Cleveland
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 23, 2007 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Paging Mrs. Sizemore in Cleveland
by howtheyscored on Apr 23, 2007 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Paging Mrs. Sizemore in Cleveland
And you can't forget the "Yorvit is a Hottie" chicks.
by tk on Apr 23, 2007 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Paging Mrs. Sizemore in Cleveland
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 23, 2007 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB shelf life
neither is he here anymore,
nor will he be there much longer.
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Don't clean up for me
He'll satisfy your requirements , and I'll bet he can still outrun Bengie. Sheesh , that guy is a turtle.
by victor frankenstein on Apr 23, 2007 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Don't clean up for me
by EliminateMe on Apr 23, 2007 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Don't clean up for me
I said he might be the only player in the league where an infield can throw the ball "around the horn" before throwing it to first on an infield grounder. (I think it would be pretty funny in a Harlem Globetrotter-esque way.)
by Goofus on Apr 24, 2007 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be cool wit dat
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, cue the music: What is Love?
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Again, cue the music: What is Love?
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Again, cue the music: What is Love?
by groug on Apr 23, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ususally preach love
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Again, cue the music: What is Love?
by Steve Finley on Apr 23, 2007 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by JakeS on Apr 23, 2007 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by JakeS on Apr 23, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rocknjosie on Apr 23, 2007 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by victor frankenstein on Apr 23, 2007 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Um, let's get younger.
by ralphdog on Apr 23, 2007 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by jckessler on Apr 23, 2007 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by sharksrog on Apr 23, 2007 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
won't happen
As for his attitude, etc., he strikes me as the kinda player that you absolutely hate until he's on your team, then you love him for his hustle, etc. He's got some definite pop and good speed and that "grit" thing going, as opposed to Randy Winn, who has the personality of the foul pole, but unfortunately, trades like that don't happen. Plus, AZ needs a Chris B. Young insurance policy.
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't need credibility anyway
If you want to see how it's done, Byrnesy, you should have taken a look at your friend and mine Vernon Wells stayin' classy in the spiffy suit and all well-spoken and whatnot.
Believe me, trading Lowry for Byrnes is a big downgrade in baseball terms and in eye candy terms. It's lose-lose, basically. Of course, I'm the one who wanted Sabes to get Scott Podsednik when he was available from the Brewers many moons ago and not because of his hitting ability. Watch out for flying panties.
I think Richie Aurilia is making up for the heartbreaking loss of JT in the pretty boy department. I can't think of a straight female Giants fan who wasn't in love with one or the other. They're both back with the team and thus all is right with the world.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 23, 2007 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I don't need credibility anyway
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I don't need credibility anyway
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by lyricalkiller on Apr 23, 2007 1:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Morris for Teahen is better.
by hairball on Apr 23, 2007 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And also never going to happen.
by jponry on Apr 23, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Morris for Teahen is better.
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reasonable
I love the kid and wouldn't mind a few innings in the bullpen to gauge that he is in fact ready for the show. Meanwhile, Sabean could be making his calls, listening to his scouting department and making other personnel decisions. Does he trade a Hennessey? Does Sanchez get sent to start in Fresno? Does he move the veteran Kline in a minor deal?
by wilriv21 on Apr 23, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by rotorueter on Apr 23, 2007 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's a Teahen , Anyway?
by victor frankenstein on Apr 23, 2007 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Make it so.
by Goofus on Apr 23, 2007 2:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
http://giantsbaseballblog.blogspot.com/
by trecole696 on Apr 23, 2007 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
Granted there are still some major concerns with this team but I think you have to stay the course as long as we keep winning. I don't think there's any rush to bring up Lincecum. Currently, there isn't a weak link. Why would we want to instantly turn our biggest surplus into an area where depth becomes an issue? Morris' contract is a problem but, if he continues to pitch well I think we should be the ones who benefit, not another team. Then we can see about unloading him when the season is over to make room for Lincecum.
Yes there is a need for another bat and some relief pitching. Absolutely. But it's April. There is still a chance these issues could get better with consistency. I don't think the solution is to potentially weaken our biggest strength.
by saveuszito on Apr 23, 2007 3:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Take it to the bank:
by zenbitz on Apr 23, 2007 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Take it to the bank:
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Newguy1 on Apr 23, 2007 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by JakeS on Apr 24, 2007 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he did.
by rfloh on Apr 24, 2007 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
put those sharp objects down
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 23, 2007 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That kind of bum
by Moggeee on Apr 23, 2007 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by jckessler on Apr 23, 2007 7:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by E Ticket on Apr 23, 2007 8:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
large upside for a good kid whose doing nothing. And i think we could get away with straight up lowry for melky.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 23, 2007 9:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
To be fair, I only said it once and in another thread. But to summarize. Trading Lowry = BAD IDEA. Melky Cabrera?
by howtheyscored on Apr 23, 2007 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
trading lowry is a good idea if we get a good young bat with good upside and a fantastic glove.
Better then Edward goddamn Encarnacion, who gets injured often. like feliz with worse defense, a higher BA (league average .270) and less power. We don't want him
And if you don't want to give up lowry, how about Sanchez?
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 23, 2007 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
He's a great reliever, and I would hate to see him go, but other teams will think that he can start with considerable upside so his trade value will be inflated to begin with. On top of that, he is just a reliever for this team, so he's much more easily replaceable than a Lowry.
Sanchez is probably a very good trading chip, and while I'd like to see some of the more short term players dealt with first (Morris, Winn-if-possible, Feliz, Benitez, etc.), we can probably get something for Sanchez that at least matches the value that I see him having for the team.
by howtheyscored on Apr 23, 2007 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez
Once they tweaked his delivery in 2005 while pitching in Augusta he began his meteoric rise. Let him grow, develop and refine himself as a starter in Fresno. He then can pay huge dividends when teamed with Lincecum and Cain.
by wilriv21 on Apr 23, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sanchez
I certainly believe that if he could stay healthy he could develop the kind of pitch selection that would be great in the rotation, but I think his motion is a strain and that his mysterious soreness from last year is a big warning sign for his workhorse durability.
As a starter I kind of feel that he's just this side of Mark Prior syndrome, but as a reliever he's healthy and dominant up the butt. Well, try not to read that how it sounds... we all know what I meant...
by howtheyscored on Apr 24, 2007 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
And he is miles above Fleas please do not speak of them in the same sentence k please thanks.
by awesomer on Apr 23, 2007 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by JakeS on Apr 24, 2007 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation - 3b next year
by wcovington on Apr 24, 2007 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edwin Encarnacion is like Feliz
by rfloh on Apr 24, 2007 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Edwin Encarnacion is like Feliz
We don't need modest upside young guys, we need good upside young guys
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 24, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Edwin Encarnacion is like Feliz
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 24, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used OPS+ because it adjusts
Not walking enough? 41bb in 467 PAs may not be Bonds, but it isn't Feliz either.
Furthermore, Encarnacion is young and cheap, unlike Matt Morris. Who do you think Morris can bring back?
by rfloh on Apr 24, 2007 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I used OPS+ because it adjusts
by howtheyscored on Apr 24, 2007 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
At any rate, as others have pointed out: why mess with the SF Giants currently dominant rotation when all five are pitching well?
To clear a roster spot for Lincecum, either insert Sanchez into the AAA rotation to see if he can flourish as a starter, or trade/release the wonderfully named, yet thoroughly mediocre, Vinny Chulk.
I love The Vincredible Chulk as much as the next guy, but peep the career stats- nothing to write home about. Hmmm... let me see. Chulk vs. Lincecum- who would I rather have pitching innings for the SF Giants right now?
by Kid Fresh on Apr 24, 2007 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Evil that Begets the Good
- some early season tendintis, or
- a bullpen implosion or two, STAT.
by Moggeee on Apr 24, 2007 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: State of the Rotation
by Goofus on Apr 25, 2007 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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