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Bruce Jenkins article

Brucey continues his negativity towards the Giants (How come I'm ok with the McCoven negativity, but Jenkins and Olster piss me off?  Maybe it's that they hate Bonds so damn much they can't see straight) It can really be summed in one sentence--"all the other West teams are improved, so the Giants need a quick start."

This is kind of the possible scenario that I've been trying to shove to the back of my brain regarding the rest of the NL West.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/03/19/SPGRNONJM31.DTL

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Saw this article, too.  Bunch of crap.  The Chron is sort of ground zero for Barry haters.  McCoven negativity is more fairly applied than this, that's why it's easier to stomach.  
Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Mar 19, 2007 3:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
He's an idiot. I assume everyone here can agree that it doesn't matter how you start but how you finish. The Tigers hadn't had a good season in more than a decade and they started slow last year. I guess things worked out for them. This is a damn puff piece that is long on opinion and short of facts. There is no dominate team in the NL West. There is potential for all 5 teams to be good and maybe great if all things fall into place but don't start spewing crap like this around like there is any facts to back it up. I'm just tired of bulls*t sports writers making up bulls*t stories to make deadlines. Anyways back to work.
I live life like every week is shark week. Oh and ignore the spelling. I do.....

by someguynamedg on Mar 19, 2007 3:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
The Tigers started the season 5-0, 20-10, and 35-14.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz

by lyricalkiller on Mar 19, 2007 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
I hate Bruce Jenki and here's why:
No, the pressure is entirely on the front office. It's on owner Peter Magowan, who subjected himself to a torrent of fan abuse by signing Barry Bonds (count on this: Even if the Giants had acquired a high-profile outfielder over the winter, they still would have signed Bonds).

So which fans were abusing good ol' Pete Magowan, Bruce? Non-Giant fans? Dodger Fans? Oscillating fans? Who? Oh, sorry. When he says "fans," he means sports media people. He is not referring to Giants fans.

How bout this:

Take an honest look at the NL West and try to find a category where the Giants have a clear-cut edge. It certainly isn't youth, farm system, speed, starting pitching, run production, defense or the bullpen. There's only one, and you may not have guessed it: Power.

Actually, most of that part is true. Except the power part. Colorado has a ton more sluggers than we have. Bonds should lead us in homers at about 30, tops. Colorado may have 3 or 4 guys go over that (if Helton gets back on the juice.)

Unfortunately, however, this year's team won't be judged on our farm system or "youth" neither of which have anything to do with playing major league baseball in 2007. What matters is scoring runs and preventing runs. The Giants will probably be about average in offense, and have a fairly solid pitching staff.

Our starting staff 1-5 is possibly first in the division, especially if Ortiz comes back. Our long relief should be excellent, and of course our bullpen is highly suspect. If our bullpen comes thru for us, we'll be there at the end.

Our offense should be fairly average. A healthier Bonds should help out a lot. He'll still be geting on base a bunch, which should help out the guys behind him. You can't look at this team and expect that every single guy will have a down year.

You can look at every team in the West and see big holes. Each team is capable of winning the division if things break right.

But that doesn't mean Jenki's pessimism is warranted. He's cynical and moronic, and we really need to stop reading him.

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Mar 19, 2007 3:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
How come I'm ok with the McCoven negativity, but Jenkins and Olster piss me off?

It's because when people here bitch and moan and write inelegant posts about hating such and such a player, they're not getting paid for it and there's no expectation of eloquence; the bar is low. Messrs Jenkins and Ostler are being paid a full time salary to provide insight, so when they pull out gobbledygook bullsh## dreck such as: "There isn't a team in either league more dependent on a fast start," your head damn well may as explode for all the good that sentence did you.

Hey, Bruce! If the Giants win more games than the other teams, then they'll have the better record, right? Yeah, I thought so! In fact, I hear that if a team scores more runs than their opponent, they win the game!

Dammit, now I'm reading this, and it's time to get my Fire Joe Morgan on again...

Get out of the gate quickly -- say, 10 wins in the first 15 games -- and the Giants can re-establish a foundation of trust among their fans. If they fall substantially behind in the NL West, you won't find many people feeling good about the season or, more importantly, the future.

Because, you know, winning 10 games in April will convince people that the future is rosey, even the people who look at the farm system and see a paucity of hitting prospects and a bunch of pitchers who are getting jerked around between the bullpen and the rotation, between the PCL and the Show, and the youth movement that has taken place at the MLB level undermined by a pathological fear of starting young players that ultimately screws them over when they get a short leash at that level. Also, losing 10 of the first 15 games will convince all the people who bought season tickets that they should SELL! SELL! SELL! those behind-the-dugout seats for that series in late July.

So many people say the pressure falls on Barry Zito, given the largest free-agent contract ever signed by a pitcher, but that's not true. Outside of his Cy Young season in 2002 (23-5, 2.75), Zito has never been Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez or Greg Maddux. He has been a clever, highly competent starter who more than holds up his end. To expect him to win 25 games, stifling the Mets or Cardinals with two-hit shutouts, simply isn't realistic.

Straw man alert! Straw man alert! Everyone who expects Barry Zito to win 20 games and to throw a two hitter this year, raise your hands. Now, someone who didn't raise your hand, but still believes Zito will be a very good pitcher this year, please explain to Mr. Jenkins ONCE MORE why using the stat unfortunately labeled "Wins" is not a particularly good measure of a pitcher.

No, the pressure is entirely on the front office. It's on owner Peter Magowan, who subjected himself to a torrent of fan abuse by signing Barry Bonds (count on this: Even if the Giants had acquired a high-profile outfielder over the winter, they still would have signed Bonds). It's on general manager Brian Sabean, who has built a less-than-thrilling cast around Bonds in recent years. It's on the hopeless romance with a player whose fan appeal amounts to "Come on, big guy -- just one more shot into the bay for old times' sake."

Don't blame Bonds if things go wrong. He's near the end, not always capable of summoning that familiar greatness. Don't blame Matt Cain, still a very young and untested pitcher. Don't blame Rich Aurilia, Dave Roberts or Bengie Molina. Blame the philosophy. Across the bay, the A's have lost so many great players due to budget constraints or injuries, it boggles the mind -- and they always survive. A single injury -- say, Zito, Cain or even Bonds -- could instantly destroy the Giants' season.

Wait, something's not computing... Oh, that's right. Back in December, Jenkins wrote:

[Signing Bonds] ranks among the most cowardly, gutless baseball decisions of the post-war era...

and

What [Bonds] doesn't do is make his team, or his teammates, better. It's one thing to be led by a prime-time Bonds, as the Giants were in their World Series season of 2002. It's another to be dragged into oblivion by a man who has lost any sense of professionalism.

So, which is it? Was signing Bonds the cowardly easy way out, or was it, as Jenkins implies here, a move made in spite of negative fan reaction?

Which is it? Do you blame Bonds for "dragging the team down" with his lack of professionalism, or do you not blame Bonds for anything? I understand he's trying to play rhetorical games, but come on. This is hackery masquerading as acquired wisdom.

Also, does Jenkins actually understand what the A's do? He says not to blame Matt Cain if the Giants aren't any good this year, because he's "young and untested", then immediately praises the A's for winning year after year, even though guys like Matt Cain make up the core of the past few A's teams: guys who are young, but certainly tested by minor league experience and even a little MLB; the A's don't buy into "MLB experience, in and of itself, is valuable" BS.

Take an honest look at the NL West and try to find a category where the Giants have a clear-cut edge. It certainly isn't youth, farm system, speed, starting pitching, run production, defense or the bullpen. There's only one, and you may not have guessed it: Power.

Bonds, believe it or not, is the only man in the division with a full-fledged power reputation. The No. 2 guy would be Jeff Kent, followed by Todd Helton, and then it's pretty much over (Luis Gonzalez? Nomar Garciaparra?). Hell, the Mets alone are superior, with the likes of Carlos Beltran, Moises Alou, Carlos Delgado and the promising David Wright. The Phillies' Ryan Howard might hit more homers than the West's five cleanup hitters combined.

Bruce, I want some of what you're smoking. Let's actually try QUANTIFYING this projected power, shall we? AZ's the only true hitter's park in the division now that COL has the humidor in full effect. From Pitcher's Park to Hitter's Park, the spectrum is: SD/SF/LA/COL/AZ. Keep that in mind. Among players expected to actually get playing time, ZiPS predicts SLG:

SF
Bonds 539
Durham 452
Aurilia 445
Winn 413
Molina 411
Klesko 411

SD
A. Gonzalez 475
Kouzmanoff 452
Cameron 446
Sledge 436
Bard 424
Giles 423

LA
Kemp(!) 478
Wash My Truck 473
Mr. Hamm 469
Ethier 463
(Bunch of guys who should play, but will all be part timers, at best, to start the season)
Furcal 431
L. Gonzalez 412

COL
Holliday 570
Atkins 521
Helton 517
Hawpe 493
Ianetta 465

AZ
Chris Young 525
S. Hairston 522
Quentin 472
Drew 467
Hammock 466
Tracy 465

In other words, Jenkins is talking out of his ass, or still thinks it's 2003 and doesn't realize that Adrian Gonzalez, Garrett Atkins, and Matt Holliday are excellent young power hitters. That's the only explanation I can think of for why he brought Luis Gonzalez into the conversation.

I'll let his assessment of the pitching go, because he doesn't say anything too ridiculous... Quibble about the Randy Wolf statement, but whatever... Chris Young, the Pads pitcher, is good, but his one playoff start is hardly evidence... He has no idea about park effects, as evidenced by his silly statement about Coors Field...

Given that the Giants' offense contains only two legitimate cornerstones -- Roberts' speed and Bonds' power -- a few surprises need to occur. Ray Durham has to stay healthy all season. Pedro Feliz needs to develop more plate discipline. Randy Winn has to show he hasn't crashed back to earth. The Giants certainly aren't terrified as they scan the Western Division lineups, but the opposition has some worthy answers: Rafael Furcal and Juan Pierre at the top of the L.A. lineup. The mercurial Giles brothers, Marcus and Brian, joining Adrian Gonzalez and Khalil Greene in San Diego. The unlimited potential of Arizona's Conor Jackson, Stephen Drew, Chris Young and Carlos Quentin. All that promise in Colorado.

Roberts's speed helps on defense, is only marginally important on offense compared to his actual batting abilities, and said advantage could leave him at any time considering his age. Feliz will not learn plate discipline; that ship sailed twenty years ago. Randy Winn hasn't crashed back to earth; his performance has reverted to his career levels, and I suspect it looks worse because he's playing in a park notoriously tough on lefty hitters. Juan Pierre sucks. He doesn't get on base that much, and he's not as good at stealing bases as Roberts. By all rights, he's an 8th place hitter who is inexplicably taking ABs from Matt Kemp. As for the last three teams, I'll only hit the Pads: he names four players on the Padres. That's half the lineup, and he didn't mention Cameron or Bard, who are no slouches at the plate, themselves. The Padres are all projected to be over a 265 EqA, if I remember correctly, which is VERY good.

In the end, I kind of agree with Jenkins's general premise, that winning the NL West will require a ton of good fortune for the Giants.  However, his reasoning isn't really reasoning--it's more meandering shooting the sh## type of discourse--and that drives me crazy. I know being a columnist is a difficult job, but it's hard because finding topics is tough, not because information is hard to come by, or because the root causes of a baseball team's successes and failures are difficult to pinpoint. It's only mental masturbation for Jenkins to keep writing columns from the POV that because he's paid to write about sports, his opinion is more valid and doesn't need to stand up to any sort of thoughtful analysis. My BS detector goes nuts when I read his stuff because he doesn't unveil his process of seeking truth, he proclaims it, fully formed.

David de Sportszilla
McC adoptee: EME

by David A. Arnott on Mar 19, 2007 4:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Way to break it down. I love reading great sports writing but this guy makes me SO ANGRY. He is the worst kind of pompus ass, the kind that doesn't know that he is a pompus ass. His words are not gospel as he seems to believe. Its almost as if he doesn't watch any NL west baseball and get all his opinions from some local Boston/NY beat writer.
I live life like every week is shark week. Oh and ignore the spelling. I do.....

by someguynamedg on Mar 19, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
And to think, this was one of the least "fire Joe Morgan"-worthy Jenkins columns in a year.

Your last paragraph is perfect, Teddy.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Mar 19, 2007 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
You know what upsets me most about this post?

That someone other than Bruce Jenkins thought that Bruce was important enough to get this much attention.

Bruce Jenkins is to sportswriting what Paris Hilton is to fast food commercials.  Enough said.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 20, 2007 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
On a certain level, I agree with you. We should feel okay with simply ignoring asinine and otherwise mediocre columns. I'm proud of some things I've written, but I also know that I have self-published my share of drivel which has been deservedly unnoticed.

However, when the vast majority holds someone on a pedestal as Jenkins is by the general sports-consuming public in the Bay Area (not saying that's fair or right, but just that it appears to be so), that person is totally devoted to the work, yet that person merely achieves basic standards for competency over a long period of time while actively resisting intellectual growth, and it seems there are a couple dozen people I can name off the top of my head who would do the job better, then I also think there's good in every once in a while explicitly demanding better quality and encouraging other people to demand the same. Perhaps I would do more good engaging Jenkins himself with objections I have about his thinking, but convincing readers to demand more of him is also worthwhile.

David de Sportszilla
McC adoptee: EME

by David A. Arnott on Mar 20, 2007 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
I guess I've never met anyone who actually likes Bruce Jenkins' columns.  I can't think of a single person, even outside of our blog world, I've ever met who likes what he writes.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 20, 2007 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Years ago he was my favorite sportswriter, and I knew a lot of people who liked his writing. I don't know if he has changed that much over the years, or if I have just lost my appetite for high opinion/fact ratios. Probably a little of both. Either way, I can see where Teddy is coming from here.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Mar 20, 2007 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Actually, I rather agreed with Lefty's blog on that column yesterday. I'm too lazy to link, but check it out for an entertaining opposing point of view.

by Roger on Mar 20, 2007 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Yeah... I agree that this was probably the most reasonable Jenkins baseball column in a long time, for what that's worth.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Mar 20, 2007 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Bruce Jenkins is a blowhole but I have to admit to liking Scott Ostler at times.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 20, 2007 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Not to worry. He will get as old as knock-knock jokes. Hmmmmm. Now that I think about it, some knock-knock jokes are still funny. Like

Knock-Knock
Who's there
Mando
Mando who
When da shit hit your fan like a big pizza pie, its Amando.

Save Matt Morris. Save The Pitchers. Save The World.

by E Ticket on Mar 20, 2007 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Tom Fitzgerald was really funny and I miss him. By and large the Green is a decent read, especially since Glen Dickey got the hell out of there. Good god I couldn't stand that guy. It makes me sad that some other rag is paying him to write words.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not fascist: SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 20, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
How was Tom Fitzgerald funny?  All he did was quote other peoples' jokes and those of people who sent him emails with quips.  (He published a few of mine, so I don't dislike him...just sayin'.)
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain. I adopted Klesko; guess that makes me his "padre".

by Goofus on Mar 20, 2007 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
I hate Paris Hilton... but I thought she looked damn hot in that Carl's Jr. commercial.

by losingcalifornia on Mar 20, 2007 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
You my friend need to get some taste!
Proud adoptive papa of the one, the only, Omar Vizquel.

by PacBellBoozer on Mar 21, 2007 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Clarifying further:

youth, farm system, speed, starting pitching, run production, defense or the bullpen. There's only one, and you may not have guessed it: Power.

How the hell does he measure any of that? He doesn't say, and just expects us to believe his word as truth.

Run production? RUN PRODUCTION?!?! What? Isn't that what offense is?

David de Sportszilla
McC adoptee: EME

by David A. Arnott on Mar 19, 2007 4:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
Well I'd have to agree with Brute Sentiment on this. I do not remember ever meeting somebody in recent memeory (though I'm sure I did at some point) that ever said or wrote: Bruce Jenkins is an interesting, thought provoking writer. He is humorous and informative.

Not a single solitary person. Fucking ever. Recently he was being interviewed on a Sacramento radio station as I was driving through on my way somewhere else (why else to be in Sacramento, right?) and he spent his 7 minutes of squawk time smearing Bonds with no facts, no evidence, not even new allegations; just a basic Bonds rant that could have been written 10 years earlier. A person not knowing Bonds nor Jenkins just tuning in would easily have taken Jenkins for what he was. Over the top angry, jealous, bitter, whatever at somebody who snubbed him. It was personal, and of no noteworthy interest to the public other than for those who have bought into the hate Bonds crusade. (Talk about televangelists being off the wall...sheesh)

The whole Bonds things is about a personal feud for media types who feel they have to drag the public through their little pissy-ant hissy fit.

NOBODY CARES IF BONDS PISSED ALL OVER BRUCE JENKINS SHOES.  We in the public don't care about you pricks in the media. You're only important to each other. For the rest of us, you're less important to us than a clerk at 7-11 or the guy flipping burgers for El Mando down at FAT BOY'S FAT FUCKING FAT BURGERS. Actually the guy flipping burgers for Mando is pretty important, because he enables El Lardo to fatten up like a Suckling Pig at Festivus, get shelled in the process, blowing countless saves, sucking up countless millions, and wasting countless roster spots over the years.

Little media bitches think they're important? Tell you what Brucie and Scottie and Lance and Mark and Lupica and Verducci:  Start reading some Susan Slusser stuff. Listen to Renel Brooks-Moon conduct an interview. Or even Jim Rome. He actually lets an interviewee speak without interruption and actually interviews, rather than debates his guests. Thats what sports media is about. Its actually about sports and how athletes go about pursuing excellence. About techniques, and effort, and goals, and fun, and comraderie and anaylsis and strategy. And the agreements and disagreements arising from that. Thats why we love sports. Save your fucking fruitcake pseudo journalism for the drooling political junkies and idealogues. If you want to report on crime and scandal, reference it to the front section if its really newsworthy. If its not newsworthy in the front, then I don't want to see your insipid little snide shit in the Sports section or listen to it on ESPN either.

We know life is real you stupid fuckers. I get it. Everybody else gets it!  For a lot of us, if we want to immerse ourselves in scandal and fucking misery and the small percentage of human waste that exists around us, we can just look around our workplace, or around town, or even our own circle of acquaintenances. Hell if thats not enough, we can vicariously thrill to any one of the 248 cable stations devoted to Armanda Nicole Smith. Most of us don't need made up shit about stuff that hasn't been proven about a guy in a kids game. Spare us. You write this shit to sell papers, garner viewer/listener ratings,  and grind your personal axes. Nothing more. Useless and eminently forgettable individuals.

Save Matt Morris. Save The Pitchers. Save The World.

by E Ticket on Mar 20, 2007 9:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: Bruce Jenkins article
I'm thinking of the 1-9-90 principle for online communities, which holds that 1% of readers actively participate, 9% occasionally participate, and 90% are lurkers. In the same way, I'd guess that 90% of his readers don't express what they think about him one way or the other, so we can't know what they think. The KNBR people like him and assign him "wise old man" status (no idea what Murphy might say; bright dude, Murphy is), so I'm also guessing that the combination of KNBR's worship (especially Barbieri's) and the mere fact of his job as Chronicle columnist gives him authority in a lot of people's minds. I have no data to back that up, and I have no practical idea for how one might find out what people think of Jenkins's columns.

As I think was mentioned above, it's important to remember the online baseball community definitely does not mirror the baseball-loving public at large.

My personal experiences with Jenkins is defined by the time I introduced FireJoeMorgan to my dad by having him read this Jenkins piece, and then FJM's response. My dad's a smart guy, and he thinks critically about sports, and he never liked Glenn Dickey, saying Dickey was always just stirring things up, but I think he'd always regarded Jenkins as harmless, and this changed that, as he was laughing uncontrollably at FJM's points.

I think of Ray Ratto as harmless. Don't dig his style that much, but whatever. He doesn't represent willful closed-mindedness.

David de Sportszilla
McC adoptee: EME

by David A. Arnott on Mar 20, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

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