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NL West Sim Matchups

Giants got beat up pretty bad by the DBacks, not quite so bad by the Dodgers.  2500 games are simulated using ZIPS projections as input.  All the different combinations of pitching matchups are played and reported for viewing.

http://DodgerSims.blogspot.com/

vr, Xei

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: NL West Sim Matchups
I just SIMply refuse to believe that.
Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle on Feb 6, 2007 3:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
What does "vr" mean?
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Feb 6, 2007 9:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
Venereal-ridden
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 6, 2007 9:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
very rejectfully?
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Feb 6, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
Wow, those "sims" are, as Click and Clack would say, bo-oh-oh-ohgus! Ridiculously so. Wow. They are saying that the worst pitchers on other teams will beat the best pitchers on our team over the course of the season. That is a cr@p analysis if I ever saw one, but even moreso in a year like this, when our starting pitching is actually pretty strong, according to most experts.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Feb 6, 2007 10:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
I notice that it said that Jake Peavy would beat Matt Cain 63 % of the time. We certainly saw that last year when Cain literally owned Peavy. All of those numbers were pretty ridiculous.

by rxmeister on Feb 6, 2007 7:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
"I notice that it said that Jake Peavy would beat Matt Cain 63 % of the time. We certainly saw that last year when Cain literally owned Peavy. All of those numbers were pretty ridiculous."

I don't think you understand simulations.  A large group of simulations show how two teams are likely to fare against one another.  During the regular season there are a limited number of matchups, so the results may not be even close to what they likely would be in a larger sample.

Matt DID beat Peavy three straight times last season -- by one-sided scores of 8-2, 8-4 and 4-0.  But that certainly doesn't mean the reverse might not occur in their next three meetings.  Prior to that 8-2 loss Peavy had gone 5-1 with a 1.82 ERA against the Giants since 2004.

A year ago one might very well have said that Peavy's domination over the Giants would make it ridiculous that Jake would lose three straight decisions to a Giants rookie.

We must remember that even though a 162-game seasons evens a lot of things out, if that same season were played ten different times, there would very likely be ten different results.  The results would likely be similar in some case, but very different in others.

If a simulation is based on reasonable assumptions and is based on many different occurences, it is likely to be at least as accurate a predictor of what would happen if the "experiment" of a season were repeated many times and averaged as the actual season results themselves are.

When we talk about one team being better than another, that would be true in most seasons if our analysis is accurate.  But if we ran enough 162-game seasons, the other team would finish higher in some of them.

A player gives a pretty accurate picture of what he's all about over a 10- or especially 20-year career.  But if we looked at any one of the 10 or 20 seasons, we might get a very wrong impression of the player's abilities.

For instance, is Randy Winn the highly-impressive player of 2005 or the unimpressive player of 2006?  In actuality he's probably neither, but somewhere in between -- closer to his career averages.

Your comment that "All of those numbers are pretty ridiculous" was itself pretty ridiculous.  Not because you don't know your stuff.  But because you don't truly seem to understand simulations and possibly don't understand that even a 162-game season doesn't necessarily provide an accurate picture of a team's abilities.

As an example, Detroit was a much better team in 2005 than its record showed.  And look at how they improved in 2006.  Without even looking at the moves the Indians made, I know that they were great underachievers last season and could become the improved Detroit-type team of 2007.

Part of the reason the Giants didn't improve more last season over 2005 is that the Giants played a tiny bit over their heads (believe it or not!) in 2005.  Yes, without Barry, they were a few games WORSE than their record indicted.  Last season they played pretty close to the sum of their individual performances.  In 2005 they played BETTER than expected from the individual performances.

I happen to think that the Padres and Dodgers will be better than the Giants in 2007.  The Diamondbacks could well be better too. Maybe even the Rockies, although I wouldn't go so far as to predict that (at least not at this time).

Now the Giants COULD be the best team in the NL West.  But they would likely need to have many players have career or near-career years in order for that to happen.  And it isn't likely that a high percentage of them will do so.

The Giants weren't very good last season.  They weren't horrible either.  But just how did they improve themselves by 10 or 15 games?  They will likely need a good bit of luck to make that happen.

I hope they receive that luck and go on to win the World Series.  But the odds on their doing so will be high -- and that is appropriate.

by sharksrog on Feb 8, 2007 1:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
This is just stupid.  In the three sets of sims, we do not have a single matchup where we are over .500.  I don't believe this at all.

by positiveuphemism on Feb 6, 2007 11:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
yeah it says each of our 5 pitchers are worse than every other pitcher in the division..

by Azmanz on Feb 6, 2007 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
"This is just stupid.  In the three sets of sims, we do not have a single matchup where we are over .500.  I don't believe this at all.

The Giants may not be as good as you think they are.  Just what moves did they make that are likely to put them significantly over .500?

by sharksrog on Feb 8, 2007 2:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
This is science, people!  And given the results, I think that Sabean should try and sucker the Dodgers into a Matt Cain for Hong-Chi Kuo trade.  

by biff pocoroba on Feb 6, 2007 1:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
These results are meant to judge the offense as much as they are the pitching. They aren't saying Kuo is better than Cain, they are saying Kuo + Dodger offense is better than Cain + Giants offense. I think these are a bit pessimistic, but not ridiculously slow. I do think the Giants are a bit better than the Dodgers.
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Feb 6, 2007 1:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
Er, "ridiculously so"
DFA Everybody

by JakeS on Feb 6, 2007 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
Jake is correct. :)
Keep in mind that each sim is ran 2500 times and in the actual season two pitchers might just face each other a couple of times.  A 60% win expectancy over a 3 or 4 game sample could really swing either way due to the small sample size.  Thanks for the explanation Jake, I will add it to the description.   vr = very respectfully.

The Giants vs Rockies sim should have good news for the Giants.

My next project will be to have a 32 team tournament, seeding teams and having the AL in one half of the draw and the NL in the other half.  Each matchup will be a 7 game series, with the better seed getting home field advantage in four of the seven games.  March madness, sim baseball style.

vr, Xei

Go Dodgers!

by Xeifrank on Feb 6, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
What are the last two teams, Las Vegas and Los Angeles II?
Remember 1962!

by El Person on Feb 6, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Last two teams.
haha, I meant 30 team tourney.  Two teams (Det, NYY) in the AL will get first round byes.
vr, Xei
Go Dodgers!

by Xeifrank on Feb 6, 2007 5:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
I don't have too hard a time believing any of this; the Giants look like a 70-win team to me, though I guess I can see an argument for 88, too. Anyway, nothing seems unreasonable here.

Except I thought I remember seeing that pecota had the Giants finishing in second place, behind the Padres. PECOTA and Zips arent' that far off from each other, so I wonder whether there might be some methodology issues with these sims -- not incorporating playing time correctly or something. That's my main hope as a Giants fan.

Saving countless runs with my defense

by lyricalkiller on Feb 6, 2007 5:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
Valid arguments, but what I am doing and what PECOTA did are totally different.  I am not projecting playing time.  I am taking two static lineups and facing them off head to head 2500 times with the only variable being which team is home and which team is away.  The PECOTA study you site is probably using something like linear weights while guessing at playing time to predict how many runs scored and runs against each team will have then plugging that data into the pythagorean formula.  I am actually playing head to head games.  Using bullpens and pinch hitters when need be etc..., the sim takes into account many factors that the PECOTA study could not and did not.  I am not saying one is right, I am just having some fun and presenting some data in hopefully in an accurate as possible manner.
vr, Xei
Go Dodgers!

by Xeifrank on Feb 6, 2007 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
The real question is, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON A DODGERS' SITE????
Sabean stop giving away our first round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark on Feb 6, 2007 8:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
The answer to that is hidden in the subtle depths of his signature. Yes, I know, and he seemed like such a nice guy before...

But kudos to X-Frank for not only coming this far (he's been posting for a little while now) without being known here as "that dumbass dodger fan" (like that dumbass, dodgerfan) and even remaining unnoticed by some as a dodger fan (despite the sig), but also for being peaceable with all of us (and getting the same in return) and taking everything, like this simulation, in good honest fun.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Feb 6, 2007 9:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: NL West Sim Matchups
"The real question is, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON A DODGERS' SITE????"

Learning more about the NL West?

by sharksrog on Feb 8, 2007 2:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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