OT: Barry wasn't the only star on roids

by Azmanz on Feb 26, 2007 1:08 AM PST

This was taken from Peter Gammon's article on like the greatness of Roger Clemens:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2779217&name=gammons_peter

"As he refined his program and in 1997 went to his own trainer and program, he learned how to do the power leg lifting on certain days and other running and lifting programs on others so he wouldn't have the problem of recovery. "That [recovery] is the toughest thing about any program," Clemens says. "So I learned how to work around it.""

Translation: In 1997 he went on his own to shoot up so he could recover faster; he learned how to work around "it" (the rules), and cheat.

I'm one of the people that won't deny Bonds was on roids, but say that everyone was on 'em, but he is just the one that is getting picked on 'cus he's breakin records. Well, Clemens' career almosts mirrors Bonds', he's just a pitcher and is more well liked. And another thing, didn't Grimsley say that Clemens was on roids? How come the media never bring that up (there are a rare few sports writers that would say Clemens is on roids, but never do they write more than a sentance about it).

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Just my take

There are a lot of conspiracy theories about Clemens on steroids, especially regarding the one about his ridiculous midseason signing. Have you heard the one about that being a tacit suspension time between him and Selig so that he would serve his punishment but not have to face the media about it? Or the one about Clemens dragging MLB through the waters for half a year because he needed the time to get in shape AND get the roids completely out of his system so he wouldn't test positive under contract?

Frankly, I'm kind of inclined to believe that Clemens was as much a user as anybody. I can't say that opinion is any more than circumstantial, but as long as I'm acknowledging the prevalence of the stuff in the league I would be a hypocrite not to acknowledge the possibility that Clemens longevity (and increased production at older ages) came via the wonder of specialized hormone treatment.

But I could make the same arguments about Clemens that I do about Bonds, in his defense I mean, and it is true that Clemens has never tested positive (in a way that can get to the public anyway), you know, the same way that Bonds never has, so I have trouble becoming indignant over one and not the other.

Being indignant over Barry getting the sewage treatment and other players, including Clemens, getting the silver spoon on it is something that I can't help but feel past as well. I mean, the double standard is disgusting, but mass hysteria has spoken and mass hysteria says that Bonds is an evil cheater while Clemens (and other, actually known cheaters including Palmeiro and Giambi) fall off the radar, and that's just how it's going to be until history has provided enough time to foster perspective.

There are certain walls I get tired of beating my head against, and the Barry one, I mean, I'll explain it with perfect reason to any individual reasonable enough to at least be open to the other side, but I'm pretty tired of being angry at the "masses" or the "situation" because the masses are stupid and the situation is an abstract and I have better things to be angry at.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Feb 26, 2007 1:41 AM PST reply actions

Re: Just my take

I join in the opinion of Justice Howtheyscored. As the Bonds/Balco/cream/clear/etc. link became undeniable, I felt disappointed and disillusioned, and his achievement has been tainted for me in some small, vague way. But I don't believe the performance enhancers actually helped Barry's performance all that much, and the popular discourse around steroids has become so idiotic these days that the only thing to do tune it out. Finding other players to point fingers at doesn't help.

by Evan on Feb 26, 2007 8:48 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Just my take

Yeah... I don't see how throwing more unproven allegations around helps anybody. Regardless of circumstantial evidence, we don't know that Clemens used steroids. And as long as unsuspected players like Alex Sanchez and Ryan Franklin are testing positive, we don't know for certain that any players are clean. So when Jeff Pearlman, to use just one smug jackass with an axe to grind, writes last week that "Griffey is a baseball legend -- perhaps not the best player of his generation, but undeniably the best clean one," he is clearly talking out of his ass.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/070222

I may be straying off topic a bit here, but I just wanted to make it clear that Jeff Pearlman is an epic asshat.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Feb 26, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions

Re: OT: Barry wasn't the only star on roids

even though Grimsley implicated Clemens in his original statements, he then "lawyered up" and denied the things he said about Clemens and Pettitte. Bonds will always be the poster boy on this issue because he's not well liked, he's going after a sacred record, and HIS steroid suppliers got busted.

by rxmeister on Feb 26, 2007 7:37 AM PST reply actions

Re: OT: Barry wasn't the only star on roids

The circumstantial evidence is a little stronger than that, as I understand what's been written. Bonds has been careful to say he never "knowingly" used steroids. But he has admitted to using substances that, based on the BALCO records, sound an awful lot like steroids whatever he says he was told they were. The fact that his boyhood buddy is sitting in jail is another twist you don't see in connection with other ballplayers. I'm not saying all this makes the case open and shut but it helps explain why people still put Bonds in a different category than some of the other "suspects."

by NearestNorwich on Feb 26, 2007 8:50 AM PST up reply actions

Re: OT: Barry wasn't the only star on roids

Despite the fact that there were several other players involved in the BALCO case as well, some of whom admitted to using, Bonds has always been in his own category where steroids is concerned. Beyond that you have many players who have actual positive tests out there. (A few admitted their guilt; most didn't.) And Greg Anderson's jail term is an interesting aspect of the case, but clearly baseball steroids coverage was 99% about Bonds before any of that went down.

Bonds is being singled out because he's a superstar, he's approaching a hallowed record, and he's often treated the media like garbage over the years. I'm not even sure that I would call this unfair; with success comes increased scrutiny, and you reap what you sow in terms of how you treat people. But the end result is a lot of screaming about Bonds in the media, and very little rational discussion of steroids.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Feb 26, 2007 12:41 PM PST up reply actions