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Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

Community Projection: Noah Lowry

The Noah Lowry progression:

Season 1: Change-up of the gods. Well-placed fastball. Solid strikeout rate.
Season 2: Change-up of the mostly impressive mortals, much-improved curveball. Solid strikeout rate.
Season 3: Mediocre fastball, change, and curve. Control didn't improve. Low strikeout rate.
Season 4: Can he build on what came before? Or does he switch time slots and add a baby to the cast?

Thinking about a future rotation of Zito, Cain, Lincecum, and Lowry is a favorite daydream of mine, but the catch is that Lowry needs to be the '04 or '05 version. The other catch is that Zito's declining K/BB can't catch up with him. The other other catch is that no one can get hurt. But it's my daydream, damnit, and in this daydream Lowry regains that vicious change and pairs it with some improved control to become an above-average and cheap starter for years to come.

In order to share the daydream, though, you have to be willing to blame everything on injury. The oblique made him do it! The oblique made him do it! I'm naturally skeptical about the injury excuse. Matt Morris had cracked ribs? Ouch, indeed. That still doesn't explain the subpar fastball and fifteen-curves-in-a-row strategy he featured before the injury. But Lowry's strikeout rate dropped so precipitously that there really isn't much other than injury or sloppy mechanics to blame it on. I'm not a mechanics expert, so I'll have to defer to those who are. So I'll blame the injury, and I generally evaluate injuries something like this:

Declining performance + Shoulder/elbow pain = Bad

Declining performance + Oblique tweak = Good? Wait, no. But not automatically bad, either.

Even the hitting declined last year, small samples be damned. That's a man in pain, not mechanical limbo. Give me a shot of Lowry optimism, but cut me off before we have a repeat of last year's debacle. That was five too many shots, too few memories, and one hell of a mess to clean up on the floor of the optimism bar.

Noah Lowry

ERA: 3.89
IP: 196
K: 148
BB: 61
HR Allowed: 26

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Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Damm, Grant and Rainman agree who would have thought it.

Starter 4 Noah Lowry:
BP sees 150 Innings with 4.56/1.41 ERA/WHIP
Rainman sees 192 Innings with 3.89/1.33 ERA/WHIP

BP further sees 100/54/19 SO/BB/HR
Rainman further sees 128/64/21 SO/BB/HR

by giantsrainman on Feb 26, 2007 1:21 PM PST reply actions  

Dartboard projection
ERA: 4.19*
IP: 185
K: 119
BB: 64
HR Allowed: 22

* I could easily imagine his ERA being anywhere between 3.30 and 5.50

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Feb 26, 2007 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

A Wealth of Distractions
The only thing that didn't decline last year for Noah were the shrieks from female fans.

This year, though, he has plenty of competition for those love calls from newcomer Barry Zito, who will probably bring his own contingent of vocal female well wishers.

Noah's just going to have to learn to share the pie. Uhh, pies.

by Moggeee on Feb 26, 2007 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

Noah Lowry
Lowry's MARCEL
IP: 160
ERA: 4.28
K: 113
BB: 57
H: 159

Lowry's ZiPS
IP: 182
ERA: 4.15
K: 130
BB: 65
H: 177

David's guess
IP: 180
ERA: 4.60
K: 110
BB: 50
H: 220

by David A. Arnott on Feb 26, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Noah Lowry
I see Marcel and Zippo -- what about Chico, Harpo and Groucho?
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 26, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Sanchez doesn't make the dream rotation?
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 26, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Huh. No one on last year's thread predicted an ERA higher than 3.88 for Lowry.

Lowry seemed to come out of nowhere, so I'm not completely convinced that his first year and a half wasn't a little fluky. But I think he can get back nearly to that level.

ERA: 4.10
IP: 202
K: 153
BB: 69
HR Allowed: 22

by Evan on Feb 26, 2007 1:42 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Lowry turning in a solid season is my stone-cold lock of the year... (barring injury)... cough...

Sure I'm optimistic about Morris and Cain and whoever happens to be our fifth starter, but I believe in Noah whole-heartedly. Not only did he pitch through an injury last season, but his numbers were also a bit deceptive. I don't know how many times I watched him pitch a fantastic game with the exception of one god-awful inning. And the blow-up usually happened right around the 100-pitch mark.

Lowry just had a terrible time pitching out of trouble in the 6th and 7th innings last year. Also, in an equally uncanny number of times last year, Lowry would leave an inning with a lead and one or two outs with runners on first and second and the reliever would come in and not only allow the runners to score (upping his ERA), but would blow the lead, costing Lowry the eventual win or saddling him with the loss.

Of course I have no statistics backing this up, it's just observations on what I saw last year. But Lowry is my favorite pitcher in the rotation and I always made sure to catch the game when he was on the mound. I'm confident he's going to be solid.

by saveuszito on Feb 26, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
>I don't know how many times I watched him pitch a fantastic game with the exception of one god-awful inning. And the blow-up usually happened right around the 100-pitch mark.

Actually, no. Lowry was excellent in the 90-120 pitch range. He was at between 30 and 60 pitches. Click here and scroll to the bottom.

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Feb 26, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
>He was at between

Oops. He was at his worst between...

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Feb 26, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Thanks for the stats. I probably should have looked that up myself before posting. I just remember watching the guy be lights out for a few innings and then he'd give up a bloop single, followed by a laser off the wall and I'd think: "Oh, here we go" and 10 minutes later he'd given up 5 runs before calming back down and looking unhitable again. When he loses it, he doesn't mess around, but when he's on, he's incredible. Just like Shawn Estes. Hmmm...

by saveuszito on Feb 26, 2007 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
and never, EVER let him throw past 120. The guy is just awful in that spot.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 26, 2007 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
I can't do a better projection than Grant on this one...
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Feb 26, 2007 2:08 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Not that I could before. But I think he's right on with Lowry.
I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Feb 26, 2007 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
I predict he'll finish with a better era than Zito.

by mxmob33 on Feb 26, 2007 2:11 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Would you put money on that?  Or are you just trying to toss out incendiary remarks?

by GameSix on Feb 27, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Not that this has anything to do with Noah
but I cannot stand Matt Morris.  Why?

He will always be a Cardinal the same way Cepeda was always a Giant.

He minces around on the mound like an un-employed opera singer when things are not going his way.

His curveball ain't that great, yet he is beyond obsessed with it--subscribing to the theory that if at first you don't succeed, keep doing the same fucking thing over and over again until somebody evenually shoots you. Morris is to curveballs what the McCoven are to Thighler Jokes.  You can't stand 'em after the 22nd in a row.  At least with Thighler Jokes you can mix in a few whacks at Blowmeatiz and his gravy drenched Custard Burritos.

My prediction for Noah when he loads his ark when they break camp and come north for the regular season.

9 Lap Dancers, 8 Milk Maids, 7 Ugly Ducks, 6 Aflac Geese, 5 Lords of the Rings,4 Parrots, 3 Goddamn French Hens, 2 freekin turtle doves, and a Partridge Family DVD.

I have no idea what he'll do on the days he pitches.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 26, 2007 2:13 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Not that this has anything to do with Noah
c'mon. tell us what you really think.
We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 26, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
I think its important to note how bad Lowry's September screwed with his overall ERA.

After his typical outstanding August, he went into September with an ERA of 3.75.  After his first two starts in September (both poor) it rose to 4.19.  Still a respectable number for all he went through.  But what really screwed him was his outing in Colorado, when he gave up 9 runs in 1.1 innings, skyrocketing his era to 4.7, and it finished up at 4.74.

If there are no more injuries or late season collapse, i can see Lowry be anywhere between 3.6 and 4.2 era.

I've been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder ever since Game 6.

by April3rdLifeBegins on Feb 26, 2007 2:14 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
"outing in Colorado, when he gave up 9 runs in 1.1 innings"

Yeah, I'm going to really miss Alou this year.

His departure is worth at least 10 additional wins this year. It would have been worth 40 more if the Giants had hired Ditka.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 26, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
How interesting. I have long suspected that you are actually Jim McMahon, just having discovered the pleasures of the InterNets, banging away on a laptop for the visually impaired.  
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Feb 26, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

You win a Custard Cup
Cool is important, and E does wear shades when he types.

by Moggeee on Feb 26, 2007 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: You win a Custard Cup
Because, like Jim McMahon, I stuck a fork in my eye when I was a little kid, trying to untie my shoelaces which were double knotted and detached the retina which is now overly-sensitive to light.

True for him.
For me? Not so much. Except when the Giants shit the bed.  

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 26, 2007 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Dark Sunglasses are not enough
I keep a designer paper bag -- with two eyeholes -- to wear around the house after the Giants blow a late-inning lead.

Whenever Benitez is warming up, I snap that bag open like the courtesy clerk on Register 3.

by Moggeee on Feb 26, 2007 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Dark Sunglasses are not enough
Plastic has its advantages you know. If they really stink, you can just pull it tight and spare yourself future disappointments. Not to mention the actual future itself.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 28, 2007 7:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
No Superbowl Shuffle for You!
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 26, 2007 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
Please! You can have your Super Bowl Shuffle. Only the Ickey Shuffle for moi!
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Feb 26, 2007 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
You know, if you look at the graphs of his peripherals on fangraphs (here), it looks like his September wasn't all that different from his August. In comparison to the first half of the season, he kept his strikeouts up (though still far below the level he'd established in 2004-05) and his walks down, and he steadily cut down on the number of fly balls. But in August he had a freakishly low BABiP and home-run rate, while in September both of those shot up.

All of which I take to be vaguely encouraging.

by Evan on Feb 26, 2007 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
i kind of see him like a cross between a woody and russ ortiz (without the huge gut).  like i have read in this post, he goes through a couple of innings no problem and then he can't find the strike zone.  then he bites off too much of the zone and gets taken yard or into the alley.  but he has a little bit of reuter in him in that he is a gamer.  he will battle and that is something you like to see.  i think he will never be a 20 game winner.  in fact i think he will max out at 15 wins.  but if you get that from your number 3 or 4 guy, then you have a damn good starting pitching staff.
A modern day warrior, mean mean stride, Today's Tom Sawyer, mean mean pride

by Cynema the Band on Feb 26, 2007 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
ERA: 4.24
IP: 186
K: 130
BB: 58
HRA: 23

I'm hoping last year was some combo of injury issues and the league adjusting to his stuff.  We'll see soon enough.

August stats

ERA: 1.12
IP: 38
K: 27
BB: 6
HRA: 2

Vote for Pedro...to be DFA'd!

by W8ingForATitle on Feb 26, 2007 3:08 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
ERA: 4.22
IP: 181
K: 122
BB: 55
HR Allowed: 23

Grant, I think that floor is going to be messy again this year. I actually hope Noah does slightly better in the first half of the year, making him a tradeable commodity in July; he can give up most of those homers as a Met.

Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 26, 2007 4:02 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
I apparently was suffering from Intermittent Transposition when I posted this.  It shoul read:

K: 125
BB: 67

I.T. is teh worst!

Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 27, 2007 6:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
shoul=should
Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 27, 2007 6:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
ERA: 4.33
IP: 196
K: 152
BB: 76
HR: 21
LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Feb 26, 2007 4:19 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
IP: 185
ERA: 4.22
K: 139
BB: 85
HR: 17

Lowry is a solid, inexpensive, fourth starter.

He's homegrown, left handed, and wears his cap extremely low.

For "cool points" alone- keep him.

by Kid Fresh on Feb 26, 2007 4:34 PM PST reply actions  

Lowry is Virtually Untouchable
At this early career stage, Lowry's a cheap and deceptive arm, a guy who will often rise up to post commanding victories that rival Zito's.

No way he's a candidate for the trading block, even with another up-and-down year.

by Moggeee on Feb 26, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Lowry is Virtually Untouchable
Actually, that is quite untrue. Lowry is one of the most tradeable commodities the Giants have right now, assuming that he rights the ship and pitches well in the first half of the year. He has a number of desireable qualities that make him a good trade target. He's young, left-handed, and signed for a relatively cheap price for a few years. OF course, all this gets blown up if he pitches like he did for the last couple of years.......
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Feb 27, 2007 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I like to keep young, winning southpaws
Our GM styles are at odds. Your reasons for trading Lowry would be my reasons for keeping him.

Our lesser brother Brian Sabean will have to cast the deciding vote.

;-)

by Moggeee on Feb 27, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: I like to keep young, winning southpaws
Where we differ is in the judgement of Lowry's true abilities. In my opinion, Lowry is Kirk Rueter with a little better fastball at times. You seem to think that he is much better than that. To me, Lowry will never be better than a pedestrian pitcher. He would be worth much more to the Giants if he could pitch well enough in the first half of the season to hoodwink some GM into giving us some young position prospects for him.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Feb 27, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: I like to keep young, winning southpaws
Yeah. You're right. Lowry sucks. But we're the only ones that know that.  We'll trick Steinbrenner into taking him off our hands for Alex Rodriguez and 75% of Arod's contract.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 27, 2007 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Lowry would do well to be Rueter's equal
I've never said Lowry's better than Rueter.

Just that GMs are reluctant to trade young lefties who have proven they can win, while also demonstrating they do not have corn flakes (Estes) between their ears.

Stable, winning southpaws are rare.

BTW -- Rueter's act may never be matched by Lowry or Zito. Kirk is just the winningest lefty in San Francisco history...

by Moggeee on Feb 27, 2007 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
IP=
check, check/i be tha numba one stunna/punk ya don't want nunna/this matt hurricaine gonna/um.../uh.../strike you out

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 26, 2007 5:36 PM PST reply actions  

pessimistic proj.
honestly, this is the low end of what i see him doing this year, taking into account the possibility that the oblique wasn't 100% to blame...

IP=184
ERA=4.08
K=136
BB=63
HR=20
W-L= 11-9
number of times referred to on national television (sportscenter included)=3*
number of times meriting mention on national television=57#

*: increases to 7,694 if he begins throwing BP to Bonds
#: 22 of which involve Lowry base hits

check, check/i be tha numba one stunna/punk ya don't want nunna/this matt hurricaine gonna/um.../uh.../strike you out

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Feb 26, 2007 5:43 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Community Projection: Noah Lowry
ERA: 4.22
IP: 188
K: 142
BB: 70
HR Allowed: 21
I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Feb 26, 2007 8:25 PM PST reply actions  

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