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Community Projection: Barry Zito

The community projections feature is always a wildly popular one at this site*. By wildly popular, of course, I mean it's usually a death knell for all discussion. That's okay. Because if we don't venture a guess as to what Mark Sweeney is going to hit in 128 at-bats this season, who will?

Fringe players will have to wait, though. I learned my lesson by assuming Brad Hennessey was going to make the rotation out of the spring last season.  This batch of preseason predictions will start off with a bang. I've changed my delivery, as it were.

Barry Zito

ERA: 3.40
IP: 220
K: 149
BB: 78
HR: 21

Also, Hilary Duff Jokes made by me on this site: 0. But if I were in an elevator with Zito, I'd have no choice but to ask, "So, Barry, how's the water down in Duff Gardens?" Absolutely no choice.

I'm a Zitoptimist, at least in the short-term. The declining K/9 and K/BB walks have to cause concern, but they are only one or two horsemen of the apocalypse. A lot of his success has to do with deception, and coming to a new league is going to help a bunch. The hitters in the NL are much weaker to begin with, and the....

Yeah, I have no idea how he'll do. If he puts up an ERA over 4.00, a little piece of me will die. I predict an ERA under 3.50 because I want to. There is some logic and reason to back it up, but I also know this will probably be the projection with the most community disagreement.

Comment starter: Really, you can't talk smack about the contract later if you don't put your prediction down now. You also can't tell the Anti-Zitonians to step off later without a prediction now.

* Source: Gallup, 2006, Study of Sick Freaks Who Have Spent More Than Five Seconds in Their Life Pondering Randy Winn's Potential On-Base Percentage

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Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
And that's, uh, homeruns allowed.

by Grant on Feb 20, 2007 11:55 AM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
We'll see about that!
Mandowear - Clothing an entire generation | comics

by Natto on Feb 20, 2007 12:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
1 Barry Zito:
BP's PECOTA DEPTH CHARTS sees 190 Innings with a 4.26/1.37 ERA/WHIP and 150/75/22 SO/BB/HR.
Rainman sees 224 Innings with 3.66/1.32 ERA/WHIP and 192/96/22 SO/BB/HR.

Here is hoping Grant and I are right and BP is full of BS.  

by giantsrainman on Feb 20, 2007 11:55 AM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Odd... I noticed your pecota numbers didn't match the ones I found. Seems the depth charts and the pecota weighted means on the pecota cards don't match up, wonder why...
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 12:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
The Depth Charts adjust everyone one the team so that there individual projected totals add to the teams projected totals.  PECOTA's weighted means just looks at the individual player independent of the team he is on.  We it comes to playing time the Depth Charts are usually more accurate then the individual weighted means.

by giantsrainman on Feb 20, 2007 12:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 4.24
IP: 224
K: 141
BB: 98
HR: 30

Ouch...

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Feb 20, 2007 11:57 AM PST   0 recs

I'd like to update..
ERA: 4.24
IP: 224
K: 144
BB: 88
HR: 31

My final answer I swear.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Feb 20, 2007 12:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Ok, I'll be the first on the "trash Grant's ridiculous notion of a 3.4 era" bandwagon.

BP has him at a 4.26, with 144 Ks, 74 walks, and 21 HR in 180 innings pitched. Interesting, given that those are pretty much Grant's numbers but in 40 less innings.

I think Grant's innings projection will be closer than BP's, but I just can't see an ERA anywhere near that low. I think a sub 4 ERA is certainly possible, but sub 3.5? He's gonna need to really up that k/9 and hope Mays Field contains some potential homers.

My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 12:06 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Ok, I'll be the third then. Damn quick posters.
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 12:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
I am sure that Grant's logic on Zito's ERA is the same as mine.  Zito is moving to the NL which has no DH and that should be worth a half a run a game.  There is just no way I can see a healthy Zito with an ERA above 4.00 in the NL and I see no reason to predict an unhealthy Zito.

by giantsrainman on Feb 20, 2007 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
I see the logic, but don't think it'll go that far. PECOTA is already adjusting for league and park, and I trust it enough to think that Zito won't come close to having a sub 3.5 era.

Here's to hoping though!

My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 1:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Then you think Cain will equally suck and that both Lowry and Morris will suck even more if you believer PECOTA.  Personally, I think PECOTA has really missed it badly on the Giants rotation.

by giantsrainman on Feb 20, 2007 3:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
The Lowry and Morris projections look ok to me. I agree that Cain will be better than that. Looks to me like PECOTA is underestimating the number of strikeouts he'll get. I believe the system works far better for older players since it is based on comparables and they have more to compare with. Cain is a bit young and is being regressed to the mean too much by the system.
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 3:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
So Pecota undervalues a rapid ascent like Cain appears to be on?
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Feb 20, 2007 5:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Well, I'm no expert, but I believe there are so many young pitchers who don't pan out that you need really, really impressive numbers when you're that young to get a good projection. The fact that Cain was sucktastic for the first month and a half last year is also coloring the projection. We see it as a different Cain, a Cain who hadn't quite figured it out yet. pecota just sees the numbers for the entire year.
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Feb 20, 2007 8:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
"Hey Barry, is Hilary able to handle the high hard one?"

ERA: 3:35
IP: 220
K: 165
BB: 65
HR: 20

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Feb 20, 2007 12:24 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 3.65
IP: 223
K: 161
BB: 80
HR: 27

by stress on Feb 20, 2007 12:37 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
The optimist in me sees Zito pitching as well as he did in 2005. The pessimist sees him pitching about like Shawn Estes. The real pessimist sees him tweaking something in his elbow in April but deciding to pitch through it, because after all, he got this enormous contract because he's durable and has never missed a start! And then he goes the way of Mike Hampton.

But hey, let's be optimistic!

ERA: 4.04
IP: 228
K: 187
BB: 79
HR: 26

by Evan on Feb 20, 2007 12:38 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
I second Rainman's comments about moving to the NL AND to telephone park.
  ERA:  3.48
  IP:   216
  K:    161
  BB:    84
  HR:    24

by allfrank on Feb 20, 2007 12:40 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
3.62 ERA
222 IP
176 K
86 BB
24 HRA
Vote for Pedro...to be DFA'd!

by W8ingForATitle on Feb 20, 2007 12:41 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 3.65
IP: 215
K: 178
BB: 95
HR: 23

Hi, I'm new.

by Naco on Feb 20, 2007 12:43 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 3.87
IP: 208
K: 151
BB: 86
HR: 24
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Feb 20, 2007 1:02 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Someone's got to take the under...

ERA: 3.04
IP:   227
K:    198
BB:    66
HR:    14

This prediction is based on the bizzare propensity for the universe to make Sabean look brilliant.

Giants make the playoffs but are eliminated.  

Zito is back to his normal steady self in 2008, but...

He blows his elbow out in 2009. (Zito, not Sabean)

This prediction is based on the annoying propensity for the universe to make Giants fans suffer.

by zenbitz on Feb 20, 2007 1:03 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Although I didn't like the $126 million signing of Barry Zito and still don't, I personally have never felt that he COULDN'T pitch at 3.40, even though I realize his 3.83 last season was due in part to great relief support and good, old-fashioned luck.  

What I believe is that he is UNLIKELY to have an ERA of 3.40 -- because I think he is unlikely to yield "only" 78 walks and 21 homers.  He should benefit from the switch to the seemingly-weaker NL, alhtough surprisingly he has a lower ERA against the AL than the NL during the months of interleague play.

I am a bit more optimistic now that we know that he gained ten pounds of leg muscle, that he strengthened and stretched his core and that he is looking at increasing his stride in order to add velocity and take pressure off his arm.  It appears to me that Barry has figured out what many of us and the more numbers-oriented observers have realized:  If he doesn't change something, he seems unlikely to make a long-term reversal of his downward trend of the past four seasons.  

He may also have looked at his very poor performance the past two Septembers and wondered if throwing the second-most pitches in the majors the past six seasons was indeed taking his toll and contributing to his decline.  He may have decided that at only 28 years old, he appeared to already be four years past his prime and that stretching out his motion and throwing more with his entire body might both improve and extend his career.

I don't expect Barry to put up an ERA of 3.40 or below.  But I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did so.  In theory, 2007 should be his best season under his new contract. If he DOESN'T put up a low ERA in 2007, how is he likely to justify the $126 million as he gets older?

by sharksrog on Feb 20, 2007 1:12 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA 3.28
IP 223
K 188
BB 78
CY YOUNG AWARD

Move to NL will boost strikeout rate.

by out machine on Feb 20, 2007 1:30 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA 3.68
IP 224.1
K 168
BB 87
HR 24
LicensetoPills: they say this to my family. to barry bonds family. and i say, "i'll bust you up. here is a candy corn."

by jponry on Feb 20, 2007 1:34 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
"Hilary Duff digs Zito's long ball."

ERA: 3.66
IP: 200
K: 145
BB: 87
HR: 18

  • The NL/Phone Booth will help Zito's numers.
  • I predict Zito will make the All Star team, and
finish top three in NL Cy Young voting.

* I also predict Zito will miss 2-3 starts, and lead
the league in Balks. (I am a huge proponent of
the intentional balk. Kidding.)

by Kid Fresh on Feb 20, 2007 1:36 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
As a devout anti-Zitonian:

ERA: 4.20
IP: 190
K: 140
BB: 75
HR: 20

The good news is I think the decline stops there and that's basically what we get for the next 7 years. Nothing like overpaying for mediocrity at the one position that you actually have young talent at... sigh.

by mxmob33 on Feb 20, 2007 1:57 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Only wins really tell you how good a pitcher is -- some guys pitch just well enough to lose.

Zito will go 18-8.

(I was serious about the second paragraph.)

Saving countless runs with my defense

by lyricalkiller on Feb 20, 2007 2:01 PM PST   0 recs

Time to really spoil this party
IP: 114 (60-day DL)

Zito was briefly experimenting with a new delivery for a specific reason. He's searching for ways to reduce the increasing stress on his shoulder.

by Moggeee on Feb 20, 2007 2:08 PM PST   0 recs

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Greg Litton says hi.

by nick on Feb 20, 2007 2:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

decline my a$$
ERA: 3.28
IP: 228
K: 185
BB: 65
HR: 18

well thats how i see it.

disclaimer: i see through very, very rosey glasses.

I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Feb 20, 2007 3:16 PM PST   0 recs

Hank Aaron vs. Bonds - Late Career Stats
I found this on the SFGiants forum. Some poster did a comparison of Hank Aaron and Bonds' late career stats (37+). IF these numbers are right, it looks like Aaron also had a late spike in his career - to the point that it is hard to believe and older guy could do that. This also coincides with alleged allegations of steroids or other drugs used by players in the early 1970's. I would love to get more opinions on this since I've never heard of this before. Read the information and post your comments:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-giants&msg=84293.1&ctx=0

by benson11 on Feb 20, 2007 3:23 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Hank Aaron vs. Bonds - Late Career Stats
This is a subject for it's own diary not something you should include in Grant's Home page.  You will get no responses here.

by giantsrainman on Feb 20, 2007 4:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hank Aaron vs. Bonds - Late Career Stats
Most people don't realize how prominent steroids were in the 70s. Check out our governer and his bodybuilding friends, or the Steelers of that era. That was the decade that they really started to become mainstream IMO.

As for Hank, I'm not sure if there's any evidence that he ever used steroids. He certainly didn't look  like he did. Amphetimines are a different story though and it wouldn't surprise me if they were part of the reason Hank was able to keep up the pace into his later years.

by mxmob33 on Feb 20, 2007 4:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hank Aaron vs. Bonds - Late Career Stats
3rd response to this post.  This one is simply to mess with rainman.
Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Feb 20, 2007 5:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hank Aaron vs. Bonds - Late Career Stats
Rainman's right, this doesn't belong here, but that piece is either purposefully dishonest or just fantastically stupid. Aaron's late-career "surge" was a function of a change in circumstances. He moved from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park in 1966, and three years later they lowered the mounds and shrunk the strike zone and brought in two expansion teams, so offense went up around the league, and Aaron's home run totals went with it. Throughout baseball, home run totals shot up in 1973 and declined again the next year, and Aaron's went with them. The guy doesn't even get Aaron's age right.

Lord, I'm tired of this steroid hysteria.

by Evan on Feb 20, 2007 6:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Barry Zito

ERA: 3.49
IP: 197
K: 148
BB: 84
HR: 19

I own my own business and I'm a giants fan; being a Giants fan is harder.

by hairball on Feb 20, 2007 3:36 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
"I am the lizard queen!"

ERA: 3.66
IP: 202
K:164
BB: 88
HR: 20

Nothing to see here, move along.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Feb 20, 2007 3:45 PM PST   0 recs

a new song for Barry
this year when Barry comes out to pitch he needs to play that "Let the Rain Fall Down" song

unfortunately, this is entirely work safe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCagJTQ8Xzk

by JayCanizaro on Feb 20, 2007 3:53 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 18.66
IP: 3.1
K:  0
BB: 5
HR: 2

New Delivery results in Mando like groin injury on Opening Day.

Wait til next year.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Feb 20, 2007 3:54 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
IP: 230
ERA: 3.77
K: 188
BB: 85
HR: 25

The middle road, assuming a full season of workhorsability.

Not $126 millon man kind of numbers, but I'd take it from our true #2.

by juanboy on Feb 20, 2007 5:31 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
OK, just so I can throw spitballs later.

ERA: 3.12
IP: 225
K: 185
BB: 82
HR: 19

and Zito is the Giants' first lefty Cy Young award winner and twenty game winner since Mike McCormick. Why the heck not?

yob

by Sayhey on Feb 20, 2007 7:58 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
"Zito! Get off your Duff and shag some balls!"

ERA: 3.99
IP: 200
K: 150
BB: 75
HR: 20

I'm hoping he continues to be steady, as we know he's not spectacular, and compiles 100-or-so wins during his contract on his way to a Glavine-like career. I was going to say a "poor man's Glavine", but...

Two hands for beginners, and Jose Cruz Jr. in the playoffs

by VidaWantsYourCar on Feb 20, 2007 8:27 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
I think you've accidentally transposed the words "Duff" and "balls."
Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle on Feb 21, 2007 6:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Preserving the right to complain later
ERA 3.75
IP 215
K 160
BB 85
HR 23

by Dan from NM on Feb 20, 2007 10:10 PM PST   0 recs

Don't get it
I haven't seen a good reason why the NL + Big Phone Company Park should yield worse numbers than the average of his past 5 seasons, which are:

ERA 3.64
IP 224.2
K 163
BB 87
HR 25

so ...

ERA 3.4 (Big up, Grant!)
IP 224.2 (can't see how that would change)
K 175
BB 82
HR 21

by cuill on Feb 20, 2007 10:51 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Remember, moving to the NL made Bronson Arroyo good.

ERA: 3.56
IP: 212
K: 177
BB: 72
HR: 17

I've grown up a lot since before dinner, when we last talked.

by groug on Feb 20, 2007 11:05 PM PST   0 recs

First, a different projection:
Number of McCoven posters who will be deterred from commenting on Zito by their failure to post projections here: 0

As for Zito:
ERA: 3.40
IP: 200
K: 155
BB: 80
HR: 20
Mays Field won't be much of an improvement for him over the Coliseum across the bay.  His new league should help his ERA and peripherals, but will also reduce his innings pitched; the Giants pinch-hitters will be cutting many of his work days short, because Zito can not hit.

by giantnitpick on Feb 20, 2007 11:11 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 3.69
IP: 197
K: 133
BB: 60
HR: 19

Although I reserve my right to complain later, I think sharksrog makes some good points (that's twice today, rog!). If Zito has improved his conditioning, and if he does realize that his pitch counts have gotten too high, and if he focuses on giving up fewer walks, he could do as well as some of our more optimistic posters have predicted. On the other hand, he could feel the pressure of the big contract (while changing his motion), suffer a Morris-like injury, and either end up with Morris-like numbers or, worse, E-like numbers.

My prediction attempts to take the middle ground in all of that, and assumes a missed start or two.
I would love to be proven wrong, though.

Avoid the rush later - join the Waiting for Josh Vitters bandwagon now!

by Lyle on Feb 21, 2007 6:33 AM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
ERA: 3.99
IP: 199
K: 149
BB: 79
HR: 19

I used to set prices at Walmart.  

by ilykeitlykedat on Feb 21, 2007 8:58 AM PST   0 recs

Sam!
Thought you was dead, man!

by Moggeee on Feb 22, 2007 2:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Sam!
I only come back to visit for a few really important occasions, like to testify that Walmart does not, ahem, discriminate against, ahem, black people, and for Giants community projections.  

by ilykeitlykedat on Feb 23, 2007 8:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Sorry about the steroids thing - my bad. I had just never seen any references to it before whatsoever.

Anywways, here are my Zito #'s:

ERA: 3.89
IP: 192
K: 151
BB: 80
HR: 14

by benson11 on Feb 21, 2007 1:23 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
in late with the projector

IP=221
ERA=3.55
K=162
BB=89
HR=22
W-L= 15-10
amount of time it'll take him to get matt cain baked=6 weeks (matt's a good southern boy)

Greg Litton says hi.

by nick on Feb 21, 2007 3:05 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Community Projection: Barry Zito
Funny how baked and naked are almost the exact same word when you're skimming a comment.

Let me tell you, sure made me stop and read a little more carefully.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Feb 21, 2007 7:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Matt Cain Naked?
I think I'd skip to the next post.

by Moggeee on Feb 22, 2007 2:13 AM PST   0 recs

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