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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Sabean on KNBR

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 4:50 PM PST

Not too much to say, so far, except...

- TOR not interested in Cain

-in discussing Tim L. for Rios, he suggested that they were "looking for ways to REPLACE Lincecum"...

- doesn't think can get Rios without Lincecum going.

ugh.

Tom asked: what about the people who say: keep both Tim and Cain, do what you can otherwise, see what happens in the next year, and panic some other time?

Sabean said: yes, but we want to get at least one and preferably two position players, either by trade or by free agency [Ed: no, he didn't really answer]... and then held that it's easier to get an impact pitcher immediately in the draft (cf. Lincecum).

Ralph asks: how rate Davis, Lewis, Frandsen, Schierholz?

Sabean: Frandsen will get a look at 3rd. Schierholz looked good in fall. Uncertain re Ortmeier because of injury in fall league.

Ralph: Davis looks very good in the field and basepaths, can't you teach him to hit?

Sabeene: Is still learning, seemed ignored in Pitt, but unsure how well will do at top of lineup/OBP aspect.

Ralph: What about free agents?

Brain: kicked tires on Rowand, but Guillen's K will screw that up. No good idea at 3rd.

Ralph ended with mock shout "Get Rios!"

Sorry for the scrambled nature... ignored much
"tire-kicking" and Brain Subbene mumbling.

BB

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Re: Sabean on KNBR

funky butt-loving...and I don't mean that in a good way

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 7, 2007 4:38 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Sabes seems to think the Giants need two hitters to have a good offense, which is completely ridiculous, but I liked how he talked about maybe getting one piece this year, and having that piece for next year when we got the other piece. Apparently his focus is on whether or not they can get two solid hitters either through two trades or trade/free agency and they want to exhaust that option.

But he made the ridiculous comment about how the Giants were actually better last year without Bonds in the lineup... I don't know what he's talking about. Maybe there are numbers to support it, but the sample size would have to be small, and the idea that Bonds wasn't one of the most productive hitters in the league (and isn't irreplaceable) last year made me scratch my head.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Dec 7, 2007 4:39 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

And it didn't seam likely that the Lincecum/Rios deal would go down, Sabean seems to want another pitcher... I like that he said there's a consensus that they don't want to give up Lince, but it still scares me that they're considering it.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Dec 7, 2007 4:42 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Actually, it is true. I think it was 47 games, somewhere around of a 1/3 of the giants games, but without Bonds they scored 1/2 run more per game than when Bonds was in the lineup. It may be an indicator and it may just be an example of how "stats" can prove anything.

by allfrank on Dec 7, 2007 4:57 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I think I read they had a better W-L record without Bonds, as well.

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 7, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

The sample size is small, so Sabean is a jerk for even bringing it up. Tim Duncan is hurt and the Spurs won their first game with him out. To Brian Sabean that would prove the Spurs are better off without Duncan.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2007 7:14 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I think this is unfair. He has to sell tickets, after all. He ahs to give some positive news. Sure the sample size is small - but it is over a 1/4 of a season. It is just as legit to put this accurate news out there as it is for others to blithely assume that because we lost Bonds, that fact must, absolutley, mean we will score fewer runs.

by allfrank on Dec 7, 2007 9:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

so you're basically saying it's ok for him to lie and insult our intelligence because he has to sell tickets?? I would much rather him acquire some good players because he has to sell tickets.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 8, 2007 5:26 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Singling Sabean out for looking at a small sample size is unfair.

Tons of baseball people, media and fans have looked at players' small-sample size post-season records and made all kinds of judgements.

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 8, 2007 8:47 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Well put. People are fucking crazy about stats, and of all the major sports, baseball is probably the one that most lends itself to over-analyzation. Not to say Sabes has a reasonable point or anything.

by ololo3 on Dec 8, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

There was big arugument a couple months back on this very subject. The staheads insisted that there was absolutley no validity to the with Bonds/without Bonds record.

As much as Bonds' bat is missed, I'm not convinced that there's at least a little offsetting effect from:

better defense
better speed on the bases
players not waiting around for Bonds to do something

-other team's having "relaxing" and getting complacement with no Bonds in the lineup

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 8, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Well, I doubt I need to post my opinion about this statistical abuse again.

But obviously, if you believe the -20 runs on BB defense that hurts the team win (but doesn't really hurt their scoring).

If "speed" had anything to do with it, wouldn't having Bengie Molina out there hurt the offense more?

I simply do not believe there is some psychological effect. What, it only happened in the year he breaks the record? Giants hitters too star struck - but only when he's in the lineup?

by zenbitz on Dec 8, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I'm not getting the baserunning argument at all, Bonds isn't a speed demon, but he's no Molina.

The Giants were 8th in SB last season and 6th in SB%. They were, for all intents and purposes, a speedy team. It got them nowhere.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 8, 2007 2:12 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Along this vein - if there was some wierd problem with the giants then you would expect them to score fewer runs then predicted from their stats. To clarify - if Bonds "voodoo" caused them to be worse offensivly then their OBP/SLG (which is inflated by Bonds), then they should have scored fewer runs than you would predict:

They scored 683 (real) runs. EQA predicts that they "should" have scored 679. So actually, they did better (slightly) than you would expect.

This type of analysis also predicts they should have won 77-78 games instead of 71. So, they are alot closer to a .500 team then they appeared. Of course, they have to replace Bonds just to get back to ~.500...

by zenbitz on Dec 8, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

No, RX, if you read my post a little bit above, you will see that Sabean is actually telling the truth. The significance of that truth can be debated. I don't think you can call a guy a 'liar' because you don't accept his interpretation of 'facts.' Fact is, the Giants scored significantly more runs (1/2 run per game, which would be, applied to a season, 60 more runs) without Bonds in the lineup. At a minimum, it is interesting. Yes, it is only (approx) 47 games, but it is a hell of a lot more hopeful than if they'd scored 1.5 fewer runs with Bonds out of the lineup. So, I think it is legitimate to point out the factual as well as hopeful scenario.

by allfrank on Dec 8, 2007 10:42 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

So, Bonds putting up a .276/.480/.565 line in 472 PA's (6th on the team) actually hurt them?

I'd say at a maximum it is interesting. And if we're two hitters away from a solid lineup, Bonds is one of them, and maybe Rios is the other. But that's without career-worst years from Durham/Vizquel/Aurilia/Roberts (first half).

I understand the Giants also performed better when Lowry started than when Cain started. Sabean isn't a liar, but I think he's reaching for some hope here (which we're all bound to do looking at next year's lineup), although we're probably overanalyzing his statements a bit. But to keep overanalyzing, he said that Bonds' year wasn't Hall of Fame production... if he had last year's performance over 20 years, he'd hit 560 home runs! And how many players slugged .565 over a lenghthy career and didn't make the HoF? What about the 132 walks over 20 years?

I think we all just want something to happen soon. OK, we don't just want something to happen soon, we want something to happen soon that we like. The suspense is killing me....

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Dec 9, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Sign me up for the Texeira for '09 1B bandwagon.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Dec 7, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

If you added the right two hitter to the current roster while keeping the core of the pitching staff together, this team would compete.

Not saying it's realistic but imagine the current poster with a Pujols/Howard at 1B and Ramirez/Cabrera at 3B.

I'd buy that for a dollar!

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 7, 2007 5:09 PM PST up reply actions

Voila

Prestidigitation

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 5:12 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

so the answer is... magic.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 7, 2007 6:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

The Giants indeed are only two hitters from being a good hitting team. The two hitters are named Ruth and Williams.

by sharksrog on Dec 7, 2007 7:26 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Don't you know we already have OFs!

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 8:25 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

And they're way better than Ruth and Williams because Ruth and Williams are dead and our OFs are not.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 7, 2007 9:26 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I think the only time Ralph has seen Rios play was in the HR Derby. HE KNOWS NUSSING!!

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 7, 2007 4:42 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I heard Seabiscuit was good in the Kentucky Derby...

plus we can beat him if he's signed.

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 5:21 PM PST up reply actions

The draft

and then held that it's easier to get an impact pitcher immediately in the draft (cf. Lincecum).

He obviously is talking about the overall fifth pick in the 2008 draft.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 4:49 PM PST reply actions

Re: The draft

Correct. And smoking crack while doing so.

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 5:02 PM PST up reply actions

Re: The draft

Thank God. We don't have enough minor league positions for top prospects to play, so they'll just stagnate.

I like this "drafting pitchers" idea. I think it'll lead to a good team.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 7, 2007 5:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: The draft

Or give the Giants many "chips" to trade for "veteran savvy".

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 5:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: The draft

well, as much as I don't want him to trade Tim, for a lot of reasons, I do agree that generally it's easier to get a pitcher in the draft who quickly makes it to the majors and has success than it is to get a hitter to do the same. Most hitters you draft (with the exception of some very good college players) take at least 1 full minor league season if not several more before they're ready for the show. There are, I think, more examples of pitchers who get drafted and make the big league roster with less than a year in AAA (Lince, Street, I'm sure there are more). That being said, TINSTAAPP, and counting on the draft to get a player for the next season is ludicrous.

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Dec 7, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

Any Word on Whether Feliz Accepted Arb??

Deadline is today, but I don't know what time

by allfrank on Dec 7, 2007 4:55 PM PST reply actions

Re: Any Word on Whether Feliz Accepted Arb??

methinks 9pm

by BigO on Dec 7, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Already thinking of drafting another pitcher?

This freakin guy.

*The Dealer*

by Armz Dealer on Dec 7, 2007 4:57 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

That's the part of this that worries me the most. He managed to have an amazing talent like Lincecum fall into his lap and now it sounds like he thinks he can just do it again, like there are guys as awesome as Tim in the draft every year.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 7, 2007 5:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Exactly. Although, in fairness, I suppose he can't actually refer to Timmy as a once-in-a-lifetime talent(even if he believes it, which I sure as hell hope he does) in a public forum like sports talk radio, because then you've basically made an airtight argument against ever trading him away.

Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Dec 7, 2007 5:11 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Well last year there was David Price and Rick Porcello, right?

Of course, he chose not to draft Porcello...

I guess it's time to start looking at which pitcher the Giants will draft with the number 5 pick next year. huzzah.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 7, 2007 5:12 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Smoak Dreams!!! Come back :\

*The Dealer*

by Armz Dealer on Dec 7, 2007 5:16 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I guess, but I think it's kind of dangerous (and maybe a little arrogant?) to go saying you can afford to trade excellent pitchers because you can just draft them. As good as the Giants have been at developing pitching, how many of them have been as good as quickly (and made the majors as quickly) as Lincecum?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 7, 2007 5:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Uh, none. I think. Wait. Yeah, none.

Of course it would be extremely silly to draft a pitcher with number 5 next season. But the Giants are nothing if not silly.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 7, 2007 5:24 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

In all fairness it has been awhile since SF had such a high pick. The real question should be how many pitchers drafted in the first 5 picks or so moved rapidly? Recently it seems that many clubs have their top picks moving fast.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 5:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

2007
#1 David Price, no professional record
#4 Daniel Moskos, A- minors
#6 Ross Detwiler, 1 game/1 IP in 2007 ( A+ minors )

2006
#1 Luke Hochevar, 4 games/12.1 IP in 2007
#2 Greg Reynolds, A+ minors
#4 Brad Lincoln, A minors
#5 Brandon Morrow, 60 games/63.1 IP in 2007
#6 Andrew Miller, 13 games/64 IP in 2007
#10 Tim Lincecum

2005
#6 Ricky Romero, AA minors

2004
#2 Justin Verlander, 2 games/11.1 IP in 2005 also played entire 2006 season
#3 Philip Humber, 3 games/7 IP in 2007
#4 Jeff Niemann, AAA minors
#5 Mark Rogers, A+ minors ( drafted out of HS )
#6 Jeremy Sowers, 13 games/67.1 IP in 2007

by Cainer on Dec 7, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Four from 2006 is amazing. Many have Price penciled in TB rotation for 2008 already. Sabean was right it can be done.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 6:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

2006 was loaded with college pitching. 2008 not so much. There's only a couple college pitchers who are expected to go in the top ten, but of course much can change between now until June.

lhp Brian Matusz a 6-4 170 lbs. lefty who has three good pitches, the best being his change.

rhp Aaron Crow a 6-2 200 lbs. right hander who's touched 99mph

by Cainer on Dec 7, 2007 7:30 PM PST up reply actions

Smoak and Mirrors

Let's hope 2008 draft is similar to 2006 draft. If not, then draft the best player available.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 7:49 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

It can certainly be done, but I wouldn't say any of those guys has proven to be as good as Lincecum is. There's a difference between drafting someone who can get to the majors quickly and drafting someone who can get to the majors and pitch at a very high level quickly.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 7, 2007 7:48 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Also get the feeling SF will not have a problem with some of the players with signability issues. If a Rick Porcello falls to them they give the impression that the budget will be there.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 7:51 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

They also gave that impression last year, in fact, they came right out and said that cost wouldn't be a consideration, and then he did fall in their lap, once, twice, .... and no Porcello.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Dec 8, 2007 2:28 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Six in the top 51 is a lot of money to spread around. This draft SF will have 2 in the top 37 or so so there should be more money for each pick.

by wilriv21 on Dec 8, 2007 4:25 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

The Giants should have budgeted enough money so they could draft the best available prospects with their first six picks. A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity calls for a once-in-a-lifetime budget.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 9:55 AM PST up reply actions

Some more fast movers

2006
#41 Joba Chamberlain

2005 - much better lower in draft
#25 Matt Garza
#26 Craig Hansen
#42 Clay Buchholz
#73 Kevin Slowey
#83 Micah Owings - man can he hit

2004
#12 Jered Weaver

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 11:14 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Fairness? What site have you been reading? :)

I have set Dave Roberts free; if he comes back, it was meant to be.

by hometownboy on Dec 7, 2007 7:39 PM PST up reply actions

FoxNews

Fair and Balanced.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 7:48 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I agree that's dangerous and arrogant, but Cain and Lowry did make it to the majors in a pretty quick fashion and have done well.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 7, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

If his plan is to sit on pitching, then yes. If, however, the pitcher is not there and he can grab a near ready bat then it may just work out. Think Clark and Williams.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 8:42 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Well, four years is quick in terms of development, but it's not at all quick in terms of team building.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Dec 8, 2007 2:25 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Yeah, but it looks (sounds?) to me like he's talking Lincecum-quick, and neither Cain nor Lowry made it up Lincecum-quick.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 8, 2007 4:40 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

While he would be fine with Joba Chamberlain quick he would also be happy with Jered Weaver quick.

by wilriv21 on Dec 8, 2007 4:45 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Thanks for the report Barrataia

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 7, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Did he mention anything about Milton Bradley?

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 5:11 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Here it is for those who want to listen:

http://media.knbr.com/knbr/1207sabean.mp3

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Dec 7, 2007 5:12 PM PST reply actions

Thanks

Very interesting. One of the reason he would even consider trading for Rios would be that he envisions him as a CF. Sabean said with the 5th pick in the draft he would consider a pitcher who could move the system real fast. The Giants OF today would be LF Roberts/Davis CF Winn RF Schierholtz. Sabean states he needs to bring at least one warm body into the Giants line-up this winter.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 5:43 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Thanks

shouldn't that warm body be an infielder?

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Dec 7, 2007 5:45 PM PST up reply actions

Yes the infield needs to be address,however,

Losers can't be too picky.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 5:48 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

So glad I didn't hear that interview. Drafting another pitcher when we could finally land a solid bat, are you fucking kidding me!

by Cainer on Dec 7, 2007 5:13 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Relax. There's plenty of time to get pissed at him for screwing up the 2008 draft. Now is not the time.

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 7, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

It's never too early! \o/

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 7, 2007 5:19 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I think the Giants should draft the best prospect available. Quite possibly that will be a first baseman.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 9:57 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Is there some reason a pitcher they pick at 5 is supposed to move faster than a hitter picked at the same position? Do hitters take longer to mature?

Keep Tim and grab Smoak!

Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Dec 7, 2007 6:12 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

SHITSHITSHITSHITSHIT

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 7, 2007 6:29 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

For the first time in like, forever, I came away thinking Sabean sounded like the most reasonable participant in the discussion.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 7, 2007 6:56 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I was thinking the same thing. He sounds very, very hesitant about trading Lincecum.

by KCE on Dec 7, 2007 7:02 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Not to say that I wasn't concerned about some of Sabean's comments (the drafting a pitcher so they can trade lincecum thing was troubling) but it seems like KNBR is suffering from a mass delusion about the value of Rios, both in terms of talent and time to free agency. I can't say that I listen to KNBR for more than a half hour here or there, but I haven't once heard a single host or caller mention the three year gap between Rios and Lincecum's service time.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 7, 2007 7:13 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

probably because the hosts of talk radio and the people that call in are only thinking about now and not worrying about a couple of years down the road. That's the mentality that the Giants have too. That's why they ignored the minor leagues for so long and signed a bunch of veterans.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2007 7:18 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

They didn't ignore the minors, where do you think the pitching staff mainly came from?

Really, except for punting Tucker's pick, they have been like any other team drafting and picking prospects, the problem is that when you are winning, you get crappy picks in the back of the first round where the odds of you finding anything good is pretty low (about 10%), so their focus on pitching seems to me to be a good strategy for eventually landing a good pitcher or two with the draft (they got Cain, Lowry, and Hennessey with those picks).

If they had drafted position players, then you are just randomly filling a spot in your roster, I think it was very smart, when you are dealing with low odds of success to focus on a particular ability, particularly one that you think you can promote faster to the majors, quicker ROI that way.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 7, 2007 8:45 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

How much did they produce from the farm system between Ortiz and Lowry?

The one thing that really bothered me from the show, and I can't remember if Sabean said it someone else, but it was essentially that the Giants previously were win now and screw the future and now they've changed gears to build a new winner. Well guess what, it's not an either/or proposition. That's doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be successfull at both simultaneously, but it does mean that there's no excuse not to make a serious attempt, and punting picks and all but ignoring international amatuers is not trying.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 7, 2007 10:47 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I believe the Giants' problem has been scouting and development. Having low draft picks certainly didn't help, but in between Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, the Giants didn't really draft or develop very well.

The Giants sort of hit a drafting and development drought between 1986 and 2006.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 9:59 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Well, by signing only ancient free agents or getting them via trade he hurt the medium term prospects of the team.

Also, many, MANY solid ML players are not drafted in the first round. So, I don't really take great issue with the choice to draft pitchers in the early rounds (that seems to be at least strategic), but you still have to develop some average players.

It's not the lack of Ryan Howards or Delmon Youngs that irks me, it's the total lack of anyone resembling a decent hitter.

by zenbitz on Dec 8, 2007 11:55 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

But what about PEDRO?!

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 8, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

nearly all of the hosts aren't intelligent enough to understand concepts like "service time." They worry about home run derbies and having all-stars to promote. Or maybe they are, but just don't bother to think about those things because they're lazy and their callers are ignorant.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 7, 2007 7:52 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

During last night's "Hot Stove Show," Dave Flemming said "Rios is a guy who could develop 35-40 HR power or he could be more of a 25 homer, 80 RBI guy" to which Damon Bruce replied "those are Pedro Feliz numbers."

That pretty much told me everything I needed to know about Damon Bruce.

by KCE on Dec 7, 2007 9:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

That's still better than listening to Rod Brooks constantly harp on what a great OBP guy Rios is. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a .354 OBP, but it's not like that's anything special.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 8, 2007 2:51 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

There is nothing wrong with Pedro's homer and RBI totals. His problems are batting average and especially OBP.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 10:00 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Yes, Ralph and Tom in particular have determined that Rios is even now looking forward to the frankincense and myrrh coming his way from Persia...

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

The interesting thing to me was Sabean saying they are reversing their course because little is happening on the trade market and they are making several offers to free agents. To me this would mean an offer to Fukudome. This might explain why Fukudome is suddenly postponing his big announcement. Perhaps the Giants have gotten in there late with a substantial offer.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2007 8:17 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Is he the fella that is only looking for a 3yr deal?
How does he translate to MLB? Better than Ichiro? Better than Godzilla? Better than Shinjo? Is he so taguchi?

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 8:24 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

in between Ichiro and Godzilla...

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Dec 7, 2007 8:27 PM PST up reply actions

Really?

Then he is a hella of a player. Sign him, get some Sake and fire up the karaoke machines.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 8:30 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Really?

I don't think he's better than Godzilla was in his prime, I think he's probably better than Matsui is now.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2007 8:51 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

He's not so taguchi that you could build a team around him.

"Hillary has that nomination sewn up." - rxmeister (who wants to be sure that no one interpets this statement as an endorsement of Clinton) 11/9/07

by Goofus on Dec 8, 2007 9:11 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

To me, this would mean that Sabean isn't doing his job well enough. Reversing course, WTF is that? Is Sabean saying that he and his front office team 1) haven't already extensively evaluated the FA market and a large number of trade targets to the point where they already have a good idea of who they want and how much they'll give up, and 2) aren't capable of meeting with both other GM's and agents on the same day? Reversing gears is what you do when driving a car, successful organizations test many directions simultaneously.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 7, 2007 10:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I believe it's called moving on to Plan B.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

So plan A was to not look into free agent?

Quite a plan there.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Dec 8, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I just read that Mike Cameron has a new suitor. The writer speculated it's the Reds, but after hearing Sabean say he's decided to go stronger after free agents, I think it might be the Giants. Do not want him.

"I'm very high on Correia and think he can be the best number five in the league next year."- Goofus 12/6/07

by rxmeister on Dec 7, 2007 8:59 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

If they are after Cameron, I hope they re-sign Pedro and just commit to trying to create the greatest defensive team ever assembled.

by KCE on Dec 7, 2007 9:01 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Sabean is a proponent of strong up the middle. He was looking at Rios to play CF so sounds like he still is looking for a CF. Can Fukudome play CF well?

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 9:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Most reports say he can handle it, but he's a better fit for a corner spot. This is Mike Plugh's take from MLBTradeRumors:

"On which positions Fukudome could play:

Fukudome would be an excellent Red Sox outfielder, and he'd hit a million doubles in that park. His days as an infielder are finished, but I think he could play any of the outfield positions. He's best in right though. Center would be an option, but not the most attractive one from a defensive standpoint."

by KCE on Dec 7, 2007 9:17 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Sorry, should have been a reply to wilriv.

by KCE on Dec 7, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions

Thanks

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 9:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I didn't hear the whole interview, but I came away from it thinking that Sabean was saying this trade wasn't likely to happen because the Giants valued Timmy so highly. Perhaps I missed something, but I felt a whole lot better after hearing Sabean talk about this not happening and an emphasis not just on next year, but looking to be better for the future.

by Sayhey on Dec 7, 2007 9:46 PM PST reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

Damn, I hope so. Anyone else come away with this interpretation?

by allfrank on Dec 7, 2007 10:06 PM PST up reply actions

Nah, just him

Yes. Get the feeling both SF and Toronto have looked at this deal and exhausted all angles. One side might be waiting for the other to blink but do not think either will. Get the distinct impression SF wants Rios and Toronto will only take Lincecum. Sabean will like Toronto to take something else, however, Toronto does not want anything else for Rios. Hence the impasse.

by wilriv21 on Dec 7, 2007 10:14 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I expressed it poorly, but Brain was definitely suggesting a 3-way.

Trade, I mean. Implying that the trade would be OK if the Giants ended up with a "comparable" pitcher.

Since we already have Zito, I can only assume he means MattyMo!

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Dec 7, 2007 10:23 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Sabean on KNBR

I have heard a rumor (and merely that) of a three-way deal involving the Giants, Blue Jays and Mariners.

I truly hope this horrible hole Brian Sabean and Giants management have dug doesn't cause them to do something foolish.

by sharksrog on Dec 8, 2007 10:04 AM PST reply actions

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