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Around SBN: More Televised Winter Baseball, Please

Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

by gianator on Dec 3, 2007 1:48 PM PST

Reds interested in Lincecum

Cincinnati is apparently interested in San Francisco right-hander Tim Lincecum, but if the Giants insist on Reds outfield prospect Jay Bruce as part of any deal, look for the Reds to back off.

Bruce, 20, hit a combined .319 with 26 homers and 89 RBIs in 133 games at three Minor League stops in 2007. The left-handed hitting Bruce is considered one of the team's cornerstones of the future.

http://www.wintermeetings.mlblogs.com/nashvilleconfidential/

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I'll see which Jay Bruce Diary wins the sweepstakes, and then I'll hijack the other. We'll see how it goes.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 1:48 PM PST reply actions

Earthquake!

Coming to you from The Land of Many Beers.

by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

what about for Joey Votto? Or Votto and David Weathers?

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 2:02 PM PST reply actions

Joey's Volvo and Carl Weathers!

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 3, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Joey's Volvo and Carl Weathers!

Killin me CAB ; )

by DaStick on Dec 3, 2007 2:47 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Joey's Volvo and Carl Weathers!

Thanks Stick. I try to reserve my completely useless contributions for here, but it's tough not to try and comment constructively what with the other board on the fritz...

But I manage, somehow.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 3, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Joey's Volvo and Carl Weathers!

I think you have a boundless source of wisdom, personally...more than enough for everyone. Not to mention that Franco prediction...

by DaStick on Dec 3, 2007 4:26 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

that's kind of lopsided. f*** david weathers.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 3, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

If no Bruce then Votto, Encarcion, and Hamilton.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 2:08 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I don't see how you could pry those three. I think I would take Votto and Encarnacion, but then I don't know much about Votto. The fact that he's Canadian would clearly help, but he doesn't seem to hit lefties worth a pinch.

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 2:49 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Lincecum is still 6 years away from free agency and therefore should be worth more then Santana who is just 1 year away from free agency.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 2:56 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

The only player worth more than Santana is Arod. Last time I checked Timmy hasn't won a Cy Young....yet.

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 2:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

not to mention the fact that Santana is liable to sign an extension as part of any deal made

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

You are both missing the point. In a vacum has Santana proven that he is very likely to outperform Lincecum over the next 6 years? Obviously you are correct and the answer is yes. But, the real guestion is, is the additional likely performance worth the $130M+ more Santana will cost in salary for these 6 years and more player talent too? To me the answer to this real question is clearly no. The $130M+ dollars savings Lincecum offers makes Lincecum in trade worth more in player talent then Santana.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 3:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Lincecum is also relatively unproven. Johan Santana is most likely the best pitcher in the game.

So . . .I don't see why teams would want to give up as much, if not more, for Lincecum than they would for Santana.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Dec 3, 2007 3:24 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I take it then you would be fine with trading the 6 remaining pre free agent years of Lincecum for the just 2 years remaining of Miguel Cabrera.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 3:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

No, thanks.

I politely suggest you stop jumping to conclusions so quickly.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Dec 3, 2007 3:30 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Well which is it then? Does time remaining and dollar cost matter or do they not matter? You can't take one positon in one case and then the other in another case.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

How about not dealing Lincecum at all? Let's go with that.

But if I had to make the choice between Lincecum in a deal for Cabrera or Lincecum for Bruce, I'd rather take Bruce.

What I was saying is that I don't see why the Reds would offer a package of 3 very young and highly talented players for one, when they already have guys like Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto in their system.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Dec 3, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Uh, yes you could. That is the whole beauty of baseball, in that things AREN'T viewed in a vacuum. Besides acquiring Santana IS different than acquiring Cabrera. In one deal, you are (arguably) strengthening one of your strengths. In the other one, you're weakening one aspect of the team and betting it'll improve a different aspect. VERY different situations.

by sfgfan on Dec 3, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Dec 3, 2007 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

That's a terrible idea

Seriously, that is the worst idea I have ever heard.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 3, 2007 11:08 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I don't see why we should ask for much less, though.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 3, 2007 3:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Ask yourself this, would you rather have for six years Lincecum and $130M+ to spend elsewhere or Santana? To me Lincecum and $130M+ is the obvious correct answer.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Yea but you can't just tell the teams that you want to trade with that Lincecum +$130M is better than Santana. If you do, you're likely to hear them say that Votto, Encarnacion, and Hamilton +$180M is better than Andruw Jones, Miguel Tejada, and Torii Hunter.

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Dec 3, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. But I am inclined to agree with you. To an extent.

For a team like the Yankees or Red Sox, Santana is the best option.

For a team like the Rays or Reds or Rockies. Then Lincecum is the best option.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 3, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Big league exp does still have value. If anything, baseball right now is overvalueing prospects. There's no guarantee that Lincecum will become the pitcher Santana is no matter how much you or I believe it. Track record still counts for something, just ask Zito.

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 3:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Never said it didn't. But, taking track record into account Lincecum and $130M for 6 years is still worth more the Santana for the same 6 years.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

what I'm saying is the price for Lincecum should be about the same as the price for Santana. Maybe a little more... I'd certainly expect more than Melky and Phil Hughes, who's looking like about even odds to flame out entirely. I'd want either Bruce straight up or their Whole Rest of the System for Lincecum.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 3, 2007 4:32 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

only two teams can afford Santana anyway, and he will invoke his no trade clause if he's traded anywhere else. Therefore the point is moot. Any team can acquire Lincecum, but only the Yankees or Red Sox would have to choose which one they prefer. Obviously both prefer Santana.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Dec 3, 2007 6:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Are Santana and Lincecum wearing spacesuits for this experiment? If they're not they're worth exactly the same.

by Mr Scruff on Dec 3, 2007 7:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

rotoworld's take is close to this:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=4484

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I feel like what I'm about to post might get me lynched by the McCoven.

Lincecum for Votto and Encarnacion would shore up the corners for 5+ years to come. I understand it's The Enchanter and we are trading Cy Young potential but...

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Dec 3, 2007 3:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Or Encarnacion could turn out to be a complete bust and Votto could be a .260/.330/.450 1st baseman while Lincecum earns multiple cy youngs.

Yes, I know that uncertainty is involved in all things but I'd bet on Lincecum much more than I'd bet on both Votto and Encarnacion becoming even good major leaguers.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 3, 2007 4:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Joey Votto vs. Travis Blackley

0 for 2, 2 Ks

I'll pass.

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 4:06 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Is there anywhere you could send me find more info on Votto? I can't find his AAA #s without signing up for something (Although its probably time I ponied up the $40/year...I'm not a hobo).

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Dec 3, 2007 4:10 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4314&position=1B

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/458/458015.html

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Dec 3, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

he's also ours. If you make the deal you risk making an utter fool of yourself if you're Sabean. There's no risk if you keep the player you have and he doesn't pan out.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Dec 3, 2007 6:54 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Woody, you only do this deal if the Reds make it Encarnacion/Hamilton/Votto. Sure, it is steep, but this is Lincecum we're talking about. Sabean has the luxury of being as stupid as he wants here, and if the Reds have come out and said they want him, swell. It'll cost you three starting position players guys, and if that is too steep for you, we'll be happy to keep Tim.

by Buck Henry on Dec 3, 2007 4:06 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

"Sabean has the luxury of being as stupid as he wants here"

Wasn't that a Weird Al Yankovic title?

This is my signature, not yours.

by Goofus on Dec 3, 2007 4:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

"Dare To Be Stupid" Maybe they should play that song whenever the camera pans to Sabean at a Giant game.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Dec 3, 2007 6:55 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

It feels to me like we're starting to get realistic if you add someone like Weathers to Votto and Encarnacion. I know, I know, I hate the idea of the guy too, but he's actually been fairly effective for the Reds. Consider: in the last 3 years of pitching in that bandbox, his WHIP has been under 1.30 every year. Sad as it may sound, we ain't got any relievers like that.

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Having said this, I don't think I would do the deal. I just like to try to find the point that might actually be acceptable to both teams. I think this is closer than with Hamilton. Can we get even closer?

by BigO on Dec 3, 2007 4:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I'm certainly not going to lynch you, Marshawn, but I wouldn't trade Tim Lincecum for Joey Votto and Edwin Encarnacion. And I don't even know much about Votto, other than that he's not the Reds' top prospect.

by sharksrog on Dec 3, 2007 6:27 PM PST up reply actions

Votto

Uses the entire field, natural power to the gaps, good at making adjustments mid-AB, and projects as a .270-.280 hitter that'll hit 25 HR annually. A bit below average defensively, but easily one of the best 1B prospect in the game right now.

I'd send Lowry or Sanchez in a deal involving Votto, but not Lincecum, unless we're getting a lot more in return.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Dec 3, 2007 6:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Back at Cal my friends and I banded together and ran the "Lynch mob." We were the only members and mostly it just involved drinking and yelling "You just got LYNCHED!!!" after every big run/TD, but that makde it no less awesome.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 6:41 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I knew there was a reason I went for UCSB.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 3, 2007 7:26 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

[We] need to get that back. . . .the eye of the tiger man. . .

For WilltheThrill, this is Jon Miller saying goodnight. . . .

by WilltheThrill on Dec 3, 2007 2:08 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I guess my proposed trades in the "It begins..." thread on the main page don't sound so unrealistic now.

by Cainer on Dec 3, 2007 2:10 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

So this rumor is based on the fact that "if the Giants insist on Reds outfield prospect Jay Bruce as part of any deal, look for the Reds to back off"?

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 2:36 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Oh crap. This is the first time it happened to me, I swear.

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 2:37 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

O.K... I was sure I accidentally double-posted. either (a)I am completely mad or (b)the post was removed by someone with the power to do so. If it's (b), then my I ask why did you remove the first one after I already apologized for double-posting? Is it because that was the only way to make me look even more stupid the I already did?

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I saw your double post, so we must both be completely mad.

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that. I was seriously questioning my sanity... The thing is: why not erase the apology for double posting too?! It seems like Grant/Goofus/Natto/anyone else with editing power was trying to help but then just got lazy halfway threw.

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I think you're reading way more into an innocent administrative act than there actually exists.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 3:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

WHO ARE YOU CALLIN' A PSYCHO!?!!

Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Dec 3, 2007 4:02 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

coockyman? How about coo-cooman! Am I right? Am I right?

-

Really, though, I saw the double post. I'm sure somebody just pulled it because they needed something to do at work and it doesn't hurt anybody. No biggy, really.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

coockyman? How about coo-cooman! Am I right? Am I right?

I want my "most spirited poster" vote back.

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 4:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Oh, it was just a light rib. No harm meant.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 4:12 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

O.K. you don't know me very well so let me introduce myself: I am a huge Giants fan who doesn't know half as much about baseball as some of the people here, but tries to learn. I am also a not very funny person who still likes to make jokes. When I do something that looks crazy - like being insulted by you calling me "coo-coo", or getting angry at Grant for making me look silly - it's because I am trying to be funny. Please do not confuse "not very funny person trying to be funny" with "crazy person with no sense of humor". That is all.

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 4:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Ah, I thought my sarcasm meter was onto something! Thanks for the confirmation.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 4:43 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

You should have that thing checked...And I would like to thank Goofus in advance for resisting the urge to delete everything except for my last post ("O.K. you don't know me very well so..."), and making me look like a weird n00b who thought a diary about trade possibilities was the best place to introduce himself.

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 4:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Is it because that was the only way to make me look even more stupid the I already did?

Kind of. I get a kick out of the out-of-context posts that remain when I delete a double comment.

by Grant Brisbee on Dec 3, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I get a kick out of the out-of-context posts that remain when I delete a double comment

But the Diary is pretty new. So most of the people would only see my comment after you sabotaged it, and would just think I am one weird coockyman. Is "getting a kick out of it" really worth ruining the reputation I have built here over the last couple of months?

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

[Insert affirming comment from somebody pretending to be Grant here.]

by sfgfan on Dec 3, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

My sarcasm meter is having a remarkable amount of trouble with this one.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

It should be pointing to "very high"...

You deserve to be struck out when your first name's a verb

by Cookyman on Dec 3, 2007 4:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

I was REALLY tempted to get delete-happy and leave Grant's message standing alone, thus making his post look stupid.

The only thing that kept me from doing it was I would have had to delete about half the thread to do so.

This is my signature, not yours.

by Goofus on Dec 3, 2007 4:16 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

Other good candidates for this treatment would have been southcitysteve's "WHO YOU CALLIN' A PSYCHO!!!" and sfgfan's reassuring fake Grant comment.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2007 4:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

NO!

by boonitez on Dec 3, 2007 3:02 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

So, the Reds want Lincecum but don't want to give up Bruce? Then no thank you. Votto and Encarnacion ain't enough for him.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 3, 2007 3:06 PM PST reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

How about Cincinnati gives us Bruce without us giving them Lincecum. How do YOU like that, Cincy??

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Dec 3, 2007 7:00 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

My final offer is this: nothing.

by Evan on Dec 3, 2007 9:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

dat you Brian??

by DaStick on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Rumors: Lincecum for Jay Bruce

It was supposed to be Michael Corleone, but in the light of day it doesn't make much sense, does it.

by Evan on Dec 4, 2007 7:38 AM PST up reply actions

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