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OT: Literary Criticism!

Use this to help me better understand the exactly how deconstruction works in reference to understanding and deriving meaning from a text!

or

Start a debate! which is your favored pair of rose colored glasses?

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Dude
Do your own homework!
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 14, 2007 12:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

You're killing me!
Derrida speaks in foreign languages and I have no idea what he talks about half the time.

If Grant can post some silly grammar something or other, i feel at least semi entitled to ask about this.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 1:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
You're not supposed to understand what he's saying half the time. Ultimately, that's actually the point.

I'm not even joking.

I'm a little far removed from my Lit Theory class (which was a actually lot closer to a psych 101 class, THANKS PROFESSOR PUCKETT FOR SCREWING ME OUT OF THE SUBJECT I SIGNED UP FOR!!!), so I can't help you out a whooooole heck of a lot (that, and I don't feel like writing an essay while I'm not - you know - in school), but a good start might be checking the references for the wikipedia entry and then reading those.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 1:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
I get that, but I don't understand how I'm supposed to apply the principles of deconstruction to analyze a text (a Tom Stoppard play in this case) because I'm pretty sure Derrida defined deconstruction as "not analysis nor critiques."

And yeah, my AP Lit teacher just outright said, "Have fun, kids!"

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 1:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
My usual strategy was to block quote Derrida and then write about whatever the hell I felt like writing about, assuming it was covered somewhere in there.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 7:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
Kirby Puckett was your Literature Theory Professor?
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
Ugh, I hate when classes you sign up for turn out to be something completely different. At my current school there's a course called Critical Thinking that is required for transfer to UC and CSU. The first time I took it, the teacher assigned a bunch of dry ponderous philosophy for the first unit (heh, unit). He tested us six weeks later and wouldn't allow us to use notes or the texts, and he said we had to provide examples from our reading in our tests. Um, what?

I dropped the course after the first paper I wrote came back with a C- grade, and by his grading scale a C- is fimrly in D hell. I was getting nowhere in the class. Second time I took critical thinking I got a different teacher, who assigned really interesting books like The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, which is about a Hmong girl with severe epilepsy living in the Central Valley, and the clash between her family, Western doctors, and the affects this all had on her health.

Look, if I wanted philosophy I would sign up for philosophy. I couldn't even form a coherent thought on the stuff my first teacher threw at us, much less a critical one. The second teacher's idea of critical thinking was a lot more in line with mine. I got an A on everything I turned in that semester.

To this day I still fail to see how Lord Jim would serve as a good book for critical thinking. My first prof was loony for the book, but now I think he's just plain loony. PS Lord Jim sucks. God, does it suck. Boring, the characters didn't move me at all, I couldn't follow it because I just didn't give a crap. What an awful reading assignment.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 14, 2007 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: You're killing me!
Ugh... Lord Jim...
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Paraphrasing one of my college instructors, who was probably paraphrasing or quoting someone:

Every complex text folds in upon itself and provides its own contradictions.

I don't know if that's helpful, but for some reason that phrase got stuck in my head and made me hate Portrait of an Artist that much more.

David Arnott
Rufus on Fire: A Charlotte Bobcats Blog

by David Arnott on Dec 14, 2007 5:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I'd prefer Rose McGowen covering my glasses...
Ain't nothing that hurts worse than a good Shinburger... ~Krukow

by HarshInFresno on Dec 14, 2007 7:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I'd prefer to cover Rose McGowan's glasses.
Another dream come true for the Patrick make-a-Misch foundation

by Dolorous Edd on Dec 14, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I'm eager to see what gornyson has to say on this subject.

by Evan on Dec 14, 2007 7:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I dnt knw wht he wld sy but i knw HOW he wld sy it...
Rockies juggernaut rolls o...ver , dead. NL West TempestTeapot CASE IN POINT!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 15, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Without knowing your teacher it's really hard to offer suggestions on lit theory.

It's basically art, masquerading as "criticism."

Some teachers (and even college professors) understand the absurdity of criticism (whether it's lit, social theory or what not), and others believe that in order to find it absurd you first need to go through the motions of understanding it.

I'd say while the concepts of the theory is important, your writing style is more important. If you're able to make concise, well written arguments, then the actual substance isn't as important.

Also note that there's a difference between substance and concepts. I can write an essay on social theory involving post-modernism that discusses the "Elvis Costello" look of PoMos, but as long as I know the concepts involved in Social Theory and Post-Modernism, then the actual substance of the essay becomes less important.

High School is a bit different though, because teachers want you to be prepared (particularly in an AP class) for anything in college (I may be giving too much credit to HS teachers).

I think you should ignore the standard definitions of words like critique, analysis and criticism. Just completely erase them from your brain when dealing with Lit Theory. That should help, a bit.

This probably was absolutely of no help and everyone is now dumber for having read it.

Do they know to win the game a team has to actually score at least once?

by noahthek on Dec 14, 2007 7:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I HAVE TO WRITE A 12-PAGE PAPER ABOUT MARXIST AND FREUDIAN CRITIQUES ON BORGES'S "THE TOWER OF BABEL" SO I'D APPRECIATE IT IF YOU'D KEEP THIS CRAP OFF MY SITE.

Also, today's post is canceled.

by Grant on Dec 14, 2007 7:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Just hand in Pierre Menard's paper with your name on it.

by Gordo on Dec 14, 2007 8:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I HAVE TO WRITE A 50-MINUTE PRESENTATION ABOUT A DECONSTRUCTIONIST READING OF "THE REAL THING" BY TOM STOPPARD WHICH DOESN'T LEND ITSELF TO THIS SORT OF THING!
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
50 minute presentation?  What kind of crazy class are you in?  50 minutes?  Geez, you need to be paid a guest speaker fee for that.  Or maybe get the professor's salary for that class.  
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Oh.  I apparently missed a reference again.  I'm so un-worldly.
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
High School Trimester system baby!  70 minute classes.

There's a ton of crap to cover from Derida and stuff, so it won't be too bad, but yeah, it's kind of a lot.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Whoa I missed something.  SLO, you're doing Derrida in high school?  I did AP Lit in high school (where I went with Tyler Walker, did I mention that?  Ahem), and never came within 30 parsecs of any theorists whatsoever.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 11:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Wow! I was wondering if it was in high school, as well. Being that you're from SLO (I'm assuming), I was wondering where you were going to school, since classes ended here at Cal Poly last week. Apparently, my high school was a lot easier than yours.

by MidKnight on Dec 14, 2007 11:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Yeah, AP Lit is pretty sweet at my school.  He kinda picks and chooses pretty much whatever books he wants to read and we just talk a lot about everything.  The presentations have been really fun, though.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Seriously.  You are pretty much teaching a class that day.  
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Hmm, maybe that's not such a bad idea.  Speaking as someone who will be teaching high school next semester.  Just give the students 50 minute presentations and sit back and relax...

Seriously, did I mention that you are doing way too much work to give a 50 minute presentation?  That's insane and, I suspect, supremely lazy on the part of the teacher.  Does every student in your class give these 50 minute presentations?  Are they group presentations?  Seriously, the longest presentation I ever gave in college was a 25 minute presentation.  And it was in my pro-seminar, which is the pinnacle of the upper division history major's required course work.

I couldn't imagine assigning a 50 minute presentation, in any class in high school.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Okay, i think 50 minute presentation kind of makes it sound way worse than it is.  It's half presentation of ideas and interpretations of different books through these theories.  The other half of the presentation is pretty much a discussion of life, texts and how these literary theories relate to everything and how we're supposed to apply them.  Our teacher guides the conversations, adds his own quips and steers us int he right direction.  We're split up into groups and we pretty much are supposed to master lit theory and teach the class, but my teach kinda wants us to teach ourselves and everyone else exactly what deconstruction is.  He's a good resource and helped us a lot, but I'm just having an immense amount of trouble understanding how I'm supposed to do a deconstructive reading of the text, especially a play.

There were like 6 groups: feminist, historicism, biographical, Marxist, Formalist just pretty much the basic lit theories.  The teacher isn't grading us down for not completely understanding deconstruction and he did warn us that it's a pretty tough topic.

But yeah, the 50 minutes thing actually goes by pretty well.  It doesn't like HAVE TO BE 50 MINUTES, but that's what they usually run.  I actually have loved all the other presentations and it's a pretty cool assignment.  We're reading Joyce's "Dubliners" at the same time and we kind of apply each theory to the short story we read that night.

If you get 12 AP in your future career, I'd reccomend an informal, destructuralized class.  It really does wonders for senior year attendance.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
On a side note, the most interesting presentation has been the Archetypal Criticism one.  Fascinating stuff.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 12:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I would think that teaching an AP class to begin with is a pretty good start for getting that ol' attendance up.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Well, six groups of (I assume) 4-6 students doing a presentation that lasts the entire period mostly because of discussion doesn't sound nearly as bad.

As for stuctured classes, there must always be some sort of structure to a class.  Structure involves more than just "this is what we will learn and this is when we will learn it."  Structure also involves expectations and procedures.  A class without structure is a bad class.  

As to students teaching each other, this is a positive thing if you can get it.  I imagine it's much easier in an AP class than otherwise.  The highest level of learning, that is to say, the way people learn things the best, is to teach it to others.  This is why presentations to the rest of the class are valuable.  However, to rely on it as much as your AP Lit teacher seems to be doing, probably isn't a good thing.  But I can't say for sure without actually observing the class in person.  

Anyway, from the sounds of it, you probably won't have very many college classes that are more demanding than this AP class.  So, it's good for you in that respect at least.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
What I meant by destructured was that the class is run more on a day to day basis without any real semblance of time allocation or linear order of things.  He's a strong teacher, a baseball coach, an ex bouncer, a double lit major from Colorado and just an all around interesting guy.  This is his second year of teaching and he's already my 3rd favorite teacher.  

during these presentations, he often interjects with clarifications, elaborations, anecdotes or something that sparks a debate in class.  It's definitely the most fun thing I've participated in in class since we spent an entire period in Theatre III on the line, "come, Thick night" from macbeth.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Well, I think most teachers in the English and Social Studies departments want to spark debates.  The problem is, a lot of the time students are not interested in debates.  This is, of course, not a problem in an AP class.  

Also, most teachers try to get things done in a certain amount of time, but they end up not covering everything they want to.  This is pretty much universal.  When things take more time than they anticipated, it's not like they will cut it off.  Though I have seen some who do.  

Anyways, it's really hard to describe someone's teaching style and give it justice.  But I am glad you are enjoying at least one of your classes.  Since you spend a good chunk of your day there, it's always better to enjoy it.  

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
By the way, shouldn't you be in class?
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I should be, but MacB opened last night and we were out late and it runs through this weekend and I was tired and I'm trying to rehab my voice because I'm sick.

So, in essence, my mommy let me play hooky for the day.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
What's your part in MacBeth?
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 2:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Malcolm!  Son of the King!
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 4:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And just for the hell of it.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 7:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: And just for the hell of it.
God, it shows I'm a total lit nerd when I know exactly who that picture is supposed to be of, doesn't it?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: And just for the hell of it.
Well, yes.  But not as lit nerdy when you first come across this particular LOLTheorist and recall that, in fact, your very own Chaucer term paper was buttressed my massive swaths of Butler.

I didn't realize until I first saw that graphic that quoting Butler for Chaucer is the litcrit equivalent of losing your virginity on prom night--good job on the particulars, but kid, you just became a statistic.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Slightly political
Since we're all being academics and nerds here and I have nothing to help our friend Slo, I shall instead toot my own horn. I got a 95 on my international relations midterm paper where I compared Sun Tzu's The Art of War to modern political realism. It is the highest grade I have ever recieved on a paper in college. Not since I got a 100 on my seventh grade essay on The Red Pony did I kick so much academic ass.

Basically what got me the A was pointing out how Tzu warns in the text about forming shaky alliances, and I compared that to the 1979 conflict between the USSR and Afghanistan and how the US provided Afghanistan with a ton of aid in the war. Yeah. That worked out so well.

For me writing papers is easy once I have my thesis figured out. I know where to find the info I need after that.

As for glasses, I have a pair of sexy librarian glasses with dark brown frames. I wear them every day because without them I cannot see a GD thing.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 14, 2007 9:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
My paper writing habits are so horrible. I sit at my computer with books open for hours doing absolutely nothing and end up starting every paper at like 4 in the morning of the day it's due.

But I always get a pretty good grade, so I guess it's worked out okay for me so far. I just wish my "method" wasn't so stressful and tiring.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 10:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
Also, awesome on the paper. Did you get comments from the professor being all "You're awesome!"? I love those.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
I'm with you on the late startin'.  Honestly, something about the exhaustion combined with the pressure does wonders so strip my, "Well what if it isn't good?" self-criticism and obsessiveness away.  

Tangentially, I have written one A+ term paper in my life, on the 100th/442nd--the Japanese-American regiment in WWII.  I wrote it starting at 1:00 a.m. because I'd been semi-conscious with the flu all day, so kept literally passing out and dropping the books I was trying to read on my face.  I was still semi-delirious, but I cranked out the damn thing; it turned out to be three pages overlength without padding it at all.

It also ended up coming to the professor 1 hour overdue.  And was knocked down half a grade.  Getting it back and looking at "A+" crossed out and replaced with "A", I wanted to barf.  Then I realized that I had the flu, so I did barf.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
I have the same stupid habit.  

And I really, really, really, really need to break it because I can not be staying up until all hours of the morning everyday preparing my lessons for the next day.  Of course, I'll be preparing for my student teaching from now until the end of January, so that will help.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
Yeah, I guess I'm gonna need to break it before I become a teacher because... well, I don't function very well the day after I write a paper. Probably wouldn't be a good idea to try to teach classes on three hours of sleep (or less).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
It usually works out in the end. And yeah the prof even gave me a smiley face. :)
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 16, 2007 8:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Slightly political
Congratulations on the paper.  I have found that papers in college are often graded according to the professor's own predilections.  I got many B's on papers that I thought were better than ones I got A's on.  Often times the comments would amount to "intersting views...here's a B."  This hasn't changed in grad school.  In one of my classes we had two papers.  The first one I got a B on and the second one I got an A on even though I felt the first one was way better than the second one.  It pretty much came down to the fact that she disagreed with me (and thought it was because I was ignorant of a whole lot of history, which is pretty arrogant when you are grading the paper of a guy with a history degree and you weren't a history major yourself...but I digress).  

But, of course, now that I have to grade papers myself, I have a lot more sympathy for those who do it.  It's not easy.  But still, it's best to be as objective as possible.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Dec 14, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Would it be inappropriate to say that I am, in fact, a lit professor, and that I would love to help SLO out, but I can't just now because I HAVE TO READ THROUGH A STACK OF 12-PAGE ESSAYS AND TURN IN MY GRADES BY THE END OF THE DAY?

I bristle at the thought of teachers offering assignments that amount to: Deconstruct This!  That's basically asking for insanely reductive and ultimately unsatisfying analyses.

Grant, I assume you're referring to "The Library of Babel"?  Great story--love me some Borges.

Message to Sabean: It's the end of the day.

by juanboy on Dec 14, 2007 10:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
thanks for the thought about this.  The teacher is actually a cool guy and he's pretty much forcing us to teach the class about literary theory.  He adds stuff and clarifies and starts damn fine discussions on topics for these presentations.  Regardless, though, It's not a fun topic to try to explain/define/use for analysis because it's main proprietor said it cannot be used for any of these.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Exactly. And if you're really brave, you can point this out and thereby deconstruct the premise of the entire assignment.

Voila! A+!

Message to Sabean: It's the end of the day.

by juanboy on Dec 14, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
YES, THAT IS THE STORY THAT I MEANT. SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE, BUT MY BRAIN IS FRIED. I'M JUST NOW TRYING TO PLACE THE ASEXUALITY OF THE PIECE IN A SEXUAL CONTEXT!!!!1NOCARRIER2!!

by Grant on Dec 14, 2007 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Dammit, I knew that business of hexagonal rooms and looking for books sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it ...

by Evan on Dec 14, 2007 1:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
My high school english teacher graded mostly on attendance.  I took her for 3.5 of the 4 years.  Now I regret it.  :-(
"natto is just weird and gross in smell, texture, and taste" - BVCE

by SF Pete on Dec 14, 2007 12:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
  1. English major here.
  2. Ex-high school English teacher, too.
I thought the AP classes were pretty much aimed at the tests, because the teachers are told at the start what the tests generally will cover. So I'd be both pretty stoked to have a teacher that gives students that much personal responsibility, but also a little wary because I'd worry that I'm not being prepared for the specific test at the end of the year.

Since everyone else is sharing stories about papers they wrote and whatnot, I once wrote a paper for a college course called The Psychology of Art in which I quoted my roommate as an expert on the works of Ludacris and added an appendix that included a burned CD of mashups and well known rap songs featuring samples (Ludacris vs. Kylie Minogue, Puff Daddy, Vanilla Ice).

David Arnott
Rufus on Fire: A Charlotte Bobcats Blog

by David Arnott on Dec 14, 2007 12:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Yeah it's a sweet class and nobody is really worried about the test.  We're seniors, it isn't going on our apps and our class averaged over a 4 on the 11 AP test and the 12 one isn't much harder.

That is an inspired paper.  Did your teacher listen to the songs?

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 14, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I wrote a paper last year that was meant to be arguing that Van Morrison's "Astral Weeks" was influenced by aestheticism. It kind of turned into a very ramble-y ~interpretation~ of the album. I don't know how I did on it, but I must have done okay because I got a B+ in the class (and I'd only gotten a B on my other paper.) I gave the professor a burned CD of the album; I don't know if he ever listened to it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I wrote a paper comparing some 18th century proto-feminist poem (the name of which now escapes me) to Laura Lee's "Women's Love Rights."  And yes, included a burned CD of Lee's greatest hits.

Still, my Alexaner Pope paper had to be my favorite from that class, as I managed to work in colonial theory, punk rock, quantum physics, and Zork.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Alexaner.
Not to be confused with Alexander Pope, who is someone else entirely.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 14, 2007 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
If he hadn't heard Astral Weeks up to that point, he shouldn't have been hired.

If he didn't listen to the CD you turned in with the paper, he should be fired.

Message to Sabean: It's the end of the day.

by juanboy on Dec 14, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
He was impossibly pretentious. He was always bragging about how he didn't know any popular modern music and whatnot. I didn't like him very much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 1:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I don't remember any papers I wrote in college.

I don't remember any good papers I wrote in high school.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 14, 2007 2:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
When I go back and read my papers from high school that are still on this computer, I always get embarrassed by how crappy they are and wonder why my teachers gave me good grades on them. :\
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My grades were good too
The only reason I can ever come up with is that all the other papers must have been a lot worse.
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 14, 2007 2:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: My grades were good too
I've always thought it was because teachers grade based on the "expected" level of writing.  I guess that sort of goes in line with your assessment groug.

My high school papers I thought were well-written at the time (including my personal statement for my college applications) have been long since deemed very primative.  I suppose it's the reason you go to college to begin with, and your writing (and speaking) style just tends to evolve (hopefully for the better) through that experience.

by sfgfan on Dec 14, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: My grades were good too
After reading some of my classmates' papers, I'd have to agree with this thinking.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 14, 2007 5:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: My grades were good too
The bitching of my high school English teacher would indicate that this is the case.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 14, 2007 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I feel the same way about my college papers. All of the ridiculous syntax problems you see in my writing here are in those because I never gave myself time to proofread or re-write. I'd always get the criticism "if this wasn't so awkward..." but I kept getting the grades I wanted so I never felt pressured enough to change my habits and give myself time for adequate proofing.

Either the ideas were really good, or the writing was still generally better than most everybody else. Or I'm just way too critical of myself looking back on things. I got a lot of positive comments regarding my sense of structure.

But man, as somebody who values strong writing skills, those papers I wrote are a mess. Or, probably, It's that way too critical thing. I'm probably that.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Proof-reading in school is highly overrated.  Unless you make a ton of punctuation or spelling mistakes, there is no real need to proofread.  I've been under the impression forever that as long as you're not butchering a sentence and they can understand what you're trying to say, the teachers can care less about the grammar.

Besides, I'm willing to say that it's probably because you're too critical of your own work (as evident in your blog).

by sfgfan on Dec 14, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
I really need to finish a new post in that thing. I've been inundated with holidays, birthdays, and interviews, and I generally do try to proofread those posts before I post them (which is one reason why they take so much longer).

It's fallen down on my priority list, too. I'm still active on it, but I've gotten lazier than I should be when I do have free time.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
But you have time to Wii!

by sfgfan on Dec 14, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Actually, recently I only Wii'd for the sake of winding down from a two day, 7 person interview process. During the day I've been trying to focus on applications and family obligations, using sports blogs to help relieve the monotony. And I don't have weekend time to devote to anything except brief stints online, because of another obligation I have that I value very highly.

Based on my frequency of postings during the week, though, I'm sure you can tell the monotony is killing me. Not having a job and not being in school bites. I've been just this side of stir crazy so many times in the last few month.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 14, 2007 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
The job search is probably the most difficult part about wrapping up college.  I started applying for work 6 months before graduating, and of course, most of the employers looking for new hires were looking for a "NOW" solution, and not one 6 months down the line.

Hopefully you'll find your first permanent job soon enough.  You sure seem to be working very hard on it.

by sfgfan on Dec 14, 2007 4:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
OK, SLO, just riffing here, but I think you can exploit the play/text thing.  A dramatic script, in its very nature, is an incomplete text laden with absence and gaps; it's really only a roadmap for a live, embodied performance, something we would think of as characterized by presence and fullness.  And, from what I know of Stoppard, so much of the meaning in his plays is carried through non-verbal cues, ironic gestures, etc.  Stoppard's language (again, from what little I know) can verge on the nonsensical or inconsequential (I'm mostly drawing on Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, b/c that's the one I know the best).  The deconstructive critic might say that to even read a play as a literary text is to willfully court misreading (even though, according to Derrida, we can never not misread), given that reading the mere words on the page is a poor substitute for a live performance.  It would seem that Stoppard's self-conscious use of language as something that folds in on itself, not always conveying "meaning" in the old-fashioned, Western metaphysics sense, is already aware of, and even exploits, the impossibility of conveying stable meaning at all.  Just find some moments in the play that  embody such gaps in meaning or linguistic self-consciousness, and you're there.  You could also probably make something of the play's title as well.

There's a reason why I haven't mentioned the specifics of the play--I honestly don't remember what it's about.  A Ph.D. means that you can talk with legitimate authority about a few things, and fradulent authority about ANYTHING. In other words, it's a license to bullshit.

Message to Sabean: It's the end of the day.

by juanboy on Dec 14, 2007 2:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
You English majors are all silly. When us econ people bullshit, we just use equations.

. . . and deconstruction labors to undermine understanding and destroy meaning from in a text.

there is no pain greater than being behind the Rockies in the standings

by oldjacket on Dec 15, 2007 9:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Re: OT: Literary Criticism!
Deconstruction does not try to undermine meaning nor destroy it.  It merely points out, that because of the flimsiness of words, there are many possiblities for meaning within a text and within each word.
Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 15, 2007 9:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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