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Kawakami, part II

Bender_futurama_tiny by Uribe nee Gonzalez on

Apologies if somebody already posted this:

http://www.mercurynews.com/giantsheadlines/ci_7658658?nclick_check=1

Small excerpt:
" OK, it's still a gut-wrenching decision. No surprise, my earlier blog post supporting Lincecum-for-Rios has been roasted on at least one very good Giants fan Web site. That's fair, and some of the rips are excellent points."

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Kawakami, part II
http://mccoveychronicles.com/story/2007/12/7/10353/9788

Sorry. :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2007 12:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Is this the same article?
Go Fred Lewis... You're better than the alternative... Yippee...

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Dec 10, 2007 12:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
It might not be the same exact article, but we've definitely discussed Kawakami responding to Grant.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2007 12:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
I posted the original thread, and this is not the same article. The one I posted was from his blog, while this one is from his column (I think). But it's mainly the same point.
"They invented the All-Star game for Willie Mays" - Ted Williams

by Cookyman on Dec 10, 2007 1:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
does the Merc know he's recycling old blog posts in his column?
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 1:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
At the time of the trade, Matt Williams was a couple weeks shy of his 31st birthday. In the prior two seasons he played a combined 181 games (1995 was stirke shortened a bit and he played only 76 games).  Yes he was an all-star in both seasons, but his health was declining as he played in only 21 games in the 2nd half in 1996. He was still productive, but the risk that he wouldn't be for too much longer was increasing. Bill Mueller was up and coming so the team had a suitable replacement at 3b. As Bill Walsh used to say, it is better to get rid of a guy a year too early than a year too late. This was probably a good example of that theory in practice. In any event, the team still had Bonds, who was also in his prime without any sign of slowing down. As long as he was there, offense wouldn't really be a problem. The 1996 team was second to last in the NL in pitching.

The Tim situation is different. Lincecum is a budding superstar and Rios is good, but not great and a 4 years older than Linc. Rios will not likely be a superstar, or at least the likelihood of that is far less than that of Linc becoming a superstar. And Rios has had injury problems as well.

Once again, Kawakami completely ignores the main issue. Most Giants fans don't want Lincecum to be traded period, but a large handful would accept a trade if it netted the Giants a core nucleus of talented position players, as in, more than just one guy, in return. No one thinks that Rios would be a horrible addition to the Giants. He's a nice player, but Lincecum is a tremendous asset and is worth a shitload more than just Rios.

Kawakami wants Sabean to be daring. That's a horrible reason to make any baseball transaction. But one can be daring without being stupid and trading Lincecum for Rios only would be downright stupid and Sabean should be fired for even thinking it.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 1:04 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
The daring thing to do is to have the smarts and guts NOT to trade Tim.  Of COURSE pitchers can get injured, but Tim seems less likely than most -- and when is the last time the Giants had a pitching prospect with this much potential?

by sharksrog on Dec 10, 2007 1:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
The awesome Kurt Ainsworth, the formidable Jesse Foppert, and the devastating Jerome Williams.  

The last of whom signed with the A's.

Hope that answers your question.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 10, 2007 1:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
I don't think any of those three were really, in retrospect, as good a prospect as Lincecum. None of them had his stuff, nor did they ever put up numbers (minor league or major league) comparable to what Tim has done. None of them threw as hard as advertised; Tim does.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2007 1:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
none of them had as much potential as Cain, either.  Ainsworth and Jerome really just had Lowry-level potential, and Foppert was a freak case whose heat came and went in the blink of an eye.  Those guys all looked good but Caincecum looks like Marichal/Perry or Seaver/Ryan.  Which would make Alex Rios the Jim Fregosi here.  Sounds about right.
you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Dec 10, 2007 2:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
Odds aren't bad that either Cain or Lincecum, HOFers as they may appear, will flame out before becoming legendary.

At which point I'd love, love, LOVE to see the "Well, I knew it all along," posts like this one.

The buzz around AFW was deafening, and their upsides were considered to be far higher than Lowry's.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 10, 2007 2:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
Yeah, but they all came up and were (a) mediocre to okay (Williams had nice ERAs but his peripherals were lacking) and (b) didn't come up throwing as hard as advertised.

Tim and Matt have come up and excelled, with good peripherals, and have thrown just as hard as advertised.

Of course they could both bust, but I think they've already proven to be better prospects/major leaguers than AFW did.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2007 2:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
I'm not arguing that AFW were in any way better than Superwonderful and the Enchanter.  And I sure as hell am not advocating trading either of them for Rios (although it'd be sort of nice to root for a boy Alexis, there's too few of us).

I'm just saying that no one knew they would suck/break down until they did.  Right up until that point they were, in our minds, future superstars, and a 1/2/3 power combo.  The fan perception was the same.

I'm arguing against the hyperbole, not the quality.  TINSTAAPP in the name of love, before you break my heart.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 11, 2007 7:12 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
I would rather take the chance that Lincecum will be great, than take the cautious route and get a good player in Rios in exchange.  We are not going to ever win the World Series with good players, we need some greatness in there.

Lincecum is a whole lot different than Ainsworth, Foppert, Williams.  He was the 10th pick overall, could have been 1st, won major college awards, and dominated in AAA.

Ainsworth had a history of injuries coming up so he was nowhere close.  I can buy Foppert since BA rated highly, but that doesn't mean he was better, each year has different levels of competitiveness, though I don't recall who was considered up there with him that season.  Still, he didn't dominate like Lincecum did nor was highly heralded coming out of college, nor was a Top 10 pick.  Williams's sails had fallen limp by the time he got to AAA, his peripherals were horrible and his first season with us notwithstanding, he has shown nothing much.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 10, 2007 3:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
really? Tim won the Golden Spikes award in college and the rocketed to the Majors after only 13 dominating minor league appearances. those guys were decent prospects, but nowhere near the level of Lincecum.
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 2:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
And Foppert was considered the best pitching prospect in all of baseball by BA, while Tim was behind at least Hughes and Matsuzaka, if not others.

It goes to show.  "When has there ever been..." is a little, shall we say... preemptively spazzy.  He'll be an amazing pitcher up until the point that he's not anymore, that I can guarantee.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Dec 10, 2007 2:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami is an idiot, part II
Which says something about BA

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2007 4:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Well, if Sabean does do this, at least he'll get good press from morons like Kawakami, which is probably his goal in the first place.
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 1:10 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
I really really hope he's smarter than that and can prove your new signature wrong.

I won't hold my breath that he'll prove himself NOT a fucktard...  But I hope he does...

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Dec 10, 2007 2:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
I really, really want Brian Sabean to do well at his job. But all I see is stupid comment after stupid comment and dumb move after dumb move. This franchise is in the sad state it is in largely because of his blunders. Maybe he was following orders, but he's the guy who is supposed to put a good team together and he hasn't done a good job of it, and, in fact has made things much worse. Now he wants to trade the team's biggest asset for less than equal value. He should not have been given an extension. I hope he does well, but he just doesn't have a solid track record upon which to pin those hopes.

And by all accounts he just disdains Giants fans and the feeling is mutual.

Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 2:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
I should add that I do give Sabean credit for drafting Lincecum and Cain (and some other picks that are still question marks, but I liked), but I just don't trust him not to waste those good moves by following them up with bad ones, which he seems intent on doing.
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 2:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Re: hating the fan base...  Damn...  I think you're right.  The Lunatic Fringe remark, basically blaming the fans for having to trade Benitez...  Suddenly my ire directed towards him is increasing.

But until I see him actually trade Lincecum for Rios, I'll remain skeptical that he actually intends to do this.  Course, everytime word comes up that it's imminent, I'm going to die a little more inside...  But I'm starting to blame the lunatic fringe who ran Benitez out of town for that.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Dec 10, 2007 3:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Well, to be fair, he should get credit for Lincecum, Cain, Lowry, Correia (4/5 of the starting rotation in '08) and Wilson, Walker, Hen, Misch (at least 4/7 of the bull pen).

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2007 4:18 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
The Giants do have a lot of good young interesting arms in addition to Cain & Lincecum. But the team has a made a concerted effort to draft and develop pitching with a stated purpose of exchanging that for hitters. They only recently announced that they may, in fact, have to do that, which is a clear admission that they haven't been doing it. I'm thinking that they should have been doing it all along (except Cain & Lincecum) and if they had, the team wouldn't be in the dire straits it is currently in.

So, I'm willing to give credit where it is due, but if the team had made just as much effort to draft and develop young position players then things would be so messed up at the moment. A bit more balance would be nice.

Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 4:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
And honestly, this is baseball. Any major league organization should be able to produce a starting position player or two every few years to fill spots of aging veterans and guys who leave via free agency. This team has utterly failed to do that, and from what I can tell, even attempt to do that, with the exception of (perhaps) a few outfielders (Nate, Freddie and Ort).
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 4:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
What, exactly, accounts are those?

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2007 4:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Kawakami puts his own face on his blog, and though a public figure, he's not a public face. For that, I can never take him seriously again. I never took him seriously to begin with, but I'll still never do it again.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2007 3:35 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
I always found it curious that newswriters do that on their blogs.  Matt Barrows does the same thing in his blog for the SacBee, too.  Barrows, in my opinion, is worlds better than Kawakami, though.

by sfgfan on Dec 10, 2007 3:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 3:53 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
He did, after all, get us the the play offs several times and to the WS once. Who was the last Giants GM to do that?

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2007 4:21 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Kawakami, part II
Al Rosen
Brian Sabean: Fucktard.

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2007 4:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

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