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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Scott Rolen on the block

by stevieg on Nov 9, 2007 2:52 PM PST Comment 82 comments

From ESPN: Here's another wrinkle in the third-base market: The Cardinals are shopping Scott Rolen. Heard on Thursday that the Twins and Cardinals are talking about a deal for Rolen, who is owed $33 million over the next three years; he makes a ton of sense for the Twins, as a right-handed hitter, as a defensive third baseman on the turf of the Metrodome, as a perfect fit for the Twins' clubhouse. The Cardinals presumably are asking for pitching in return, but because of the money involved and Rolen's injury history, they might not get a lot, because this is more of a salary dump.

If it's a salary dump it's not a bad temporary fit. We need the power. Obviously health is a major issue. If the Cards take a large portion of his salary it might be worth looking at, maybe.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I want a younger 3B

Rolen is talented, but brittle and an oh so early 2000's type of a Giants acquisition. I want someone younger that can get better and we can acquire for Lowry. Someone like Bill Hall or LaRoche or Headley or Andy Marte. What other similar 3B's can we target?

by Goat on Nov 9, 2007 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: I want a younger 3B

This doesn't answer your question exactly, but Hank Blalock's being offered up cheap too (straight up offer for Coco Crisp, reportedly).

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 9, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I want a younger 3B

Straight up for coco crisp?

Winn is better than Crisp!!!

Winn for Blalock?

Don't throw balls, grow balls. Pitch to Barry.

by April3rdLifeBegins on Nov 9, 2007 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I want a younger 3B

I read today that the Rangers have decided not to trade Blalock. If they do, I would definitely prefer him over Rolen, who is brittle, older, and makes way too much money.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 9, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I want a younger 3B

Edwin Encarnacion.

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Nov 9, 2007 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I want a younger 3B

Yes...and then some.

by Buzzword on Nov 9, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

My initial reaction is "Ooo! Yes!"

It's tough, though. He's another player who, because of his age and frailty, doesn't really fit on the team if we're not making some other major moves, and since those moves would almost have to be some combination of Rodriguez, Cabrera, and Jones, only Jones of which I see much chance of happening, I kind of have to put my head down, whimper, and say pass.

But a right handed power hitter with tops defense at a hot corner... and relatively more affordable than all the other "options."

Man, it's hard not to want to try.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

What would you give up for him?

He's had 2 bad years out of the last 3 years, is struggling with a recurring shoulder injury that doesn't appear to have healed properly, and isn't exactly a bargain either.

His numbers this year are similar to Morgan Ensberg's, he's older and cost much more.

by rfloh on Nov 9, 2007 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: What would you give up for him?

Well, considering his injury, recent play history, pricetag, and place on the team, I probably wouldn't give up very much. Lowball 'em and see what's doing, but wouldn't go too much farther than that. This might be my Misch + something type of trade.

Of course, that means we wouldn't have a shot at getting the trade done. So it's kind of a moot desire for me to want to see him around.

Even so, if this team was in any other position than "terrible and rebuilding from the bottom up," I probably wouldn't mind taking a flyer on his age and health. I might even go into Sanchez/Correia talent level territory. But since the reality is that he basically has no place on THIS team either short or long term, I can't give up very much for that. Misch would be worth a little pointless excitement from 3b for the next couple years. But I can't see anybody more talented being worth that right now.

Still, it is hard not to think "3b, power, defense, less than a gazillion dollars... slobber." Reason wins out in the end, though.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So you think

that Scott Rolen is a better option than ARod or Cabrera, AND you eat puppies?

Sorry, just wanted to throw in the rfloh reply. Couldn't be helped.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 9, 2007 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez or Correia

If I'm the Cardinals I make that trade without thinking twice, assuming that you mean it is a straight up trade.

Keep in mind though that Sabean supposedly turned down a Sanchez for Carlos Gomez trade.

by rfloh on Nov 9, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Sanchez or Correia

Well, with these Giants, I don't offer that trade. With a team in a better position, I think I probably do. But with this team we really should get back solutions that are more long term if we're offering Sanchez/Correia.

It might be worth noting that I'm not as high on Sanchez as others.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I don't see how it isn't a no-brainer for the Giants if the asking price is anything less than Lowry.

Here are some popular deal breakers people have mentioned....

AGE: Does anyone know what happened in Jasper, IN roughly three months before A-Rod was born? Scott Rolen was born! He's three fraking months older than A-Rod and everyone is concerned about his age? Seriously? And somehow A-Rod's age is never mentioned when people talk of giving him an eight to ten year contract?

BRITTLE: He had one injury with the Phillies in '99 and the freak collision that he's feeling the after effects of. He's now had the necessary surgery and should be able to get back into playing form. Its not like he's Grant Hill or something. Two injuries in 10+ years? Unlucky? Sure. Brittle? No. The Giants should do their due diligence on Rolen and see if he has recovered. Rolen has never had a problem staying healthy. Plus, if it weren't for the injury, there's no way the Giants could get him for as cheap as they can now.

If the Giants can get a good beat on Rolen's health, they should make a strong push to get him. The cost in terms of prospects is low. He's a 3-year commitment (meaning we don't have to worry about bidding in a FA market where Sabes could have given him a 20 year contract). He plays great defense AND hits for power. His zone rating in 112 games last year was .847! Even if he regresses to his career zone rating of .809, he would still be one of the top five defensive thirdbasemen in all of baseball.

Players like Rolen don't grow on trees. Only a handful of players provide above average offense and spectacular defense. He's one of them. Get him!

by Nathan on Nov 9, 2007 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I tend to agree, actually.

I'd rather take a shot on Rolen than Jones, Hunter, or Rowand, if only because it's merely a 3-year commitment. Assuming Rolen clears a very rigorous physical, that is.

I don't see how the risk/reward here is much substantially different from Fukudome.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 9, 2007 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

fukudome has not had a single solitary ML at-bat.

ever.

little bit bigger risk. Also, Scott Rolen plays a position that we need that we have no talent at. Scott Rolen will be a major upgrayedd with a double dose of awesome instead of giving us two Randy Winns.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 10, 2007 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

The Giants would not have to give up prospects to get Fukudome.

Little lesser risk, no?

It's not an either/or proposition, though. I'd be reasonably pleased with the offseason if the Giants traded Correia or something for Rolen, signed Fukudome, and cobbled together some kind of 1B situation that could manage an OPS in the high .700's. IMO, it's as much about surviving that crappy FA class without making another Zito-sized mistake than improving the squad.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 10, 2007 1:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

i just don't think fukudome adds anything to the situation except another 12 million per in an already crowded outfield full of mediocrity.

As it sounds, Rolen might not cost too much, though i do see that his salary would definitely add.

However, realizing the absolute void that is the 3b free agent market, I think if he could be had for a couple c level prospects, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat. I mean that'd solve a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
hole at third.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 10, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

St Louis knows it might have to eat some salary on this transaction. What are they looking for in return? Is there a way to unload an Aurilia, Durham, Roberts or Winn on the unsuspecting Red Birds?

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2007 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

You're not going to get the Cardinals to eat salary AND take on your garbage. If you're lucky it will be one or the other. And at this stage of the offseason it will probably be neither. Anyway, are we rebuilding or not?? Re-signing Omar Vizquel and then trading for Scott Rolen sounds to me like the same old failed plan from previous years.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 10, 2007 5:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Rebuilding requires prospects. The Giants have none at 3B.

IMO, the best way to "rebuild" is to do what the Tigers did: get 3-4 really good established guys (or, at least, the best you can attract given the circumstances) and then plug in what prospects you have at the other positions. I don't think simply starting you're best 8 "prospects" is a viable strategy unless most of them are truly elite prospects. I also don't think bringing back guys like Vizquel is really that great, since what you're really looking for are guys good enough to cover up for some of the rookie mistakes for the 2-3 seasons it will take for the youngsters to hit their stride, not just be a 1 year mediocre placeholder.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 10, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

You don't think Fukudome has a shot to be better than mediocre?

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 10, 2007 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

If he is like Godzilla then sign him. If he is Kazuo then pass.

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2007 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I really don't see his numbers translating to anything more than mediocrity. good OBP not so good SlG

that doesn't sound like a fit on our 20 total homer team next year.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 11, 2007 2:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

If you think team homers will be a problem, wait until you see the Bonds-less walk total.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 11, 2007 3:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I just saw Idiocracy a couple weeks ago and now references to it are popping up all over the place.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 10, 2007 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I'd rather take a shot on Rolen than any of those guys if only for the fact that he fills a position of need rather than a position of excess.

What really stops me is not only that there are question marks over Rolen, but that he's still not going to have anything to do with the next good Giants team unless we somehow get some combination of Rodriguez, Cabrera, Jones, Rowand, or Hunter.

And the problem with getting any combination of those is that they are all 3b or OF or unreasonable or not as good as advertised....

If we don't give too much up, though, I'd be thrilled to get Rolen just to make 3b exciting during the interim suck years. But I don't want to give up a lot for a guy who's still not likely part of the next long-term wave.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2007 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's had 2 very bad years

out of the last 3. ARod might be older, but ARod has not had 2 years out of the last 3 where he was only slightly better than PEDRO FELIZ.

The collision was a freak injury. It still occurred. He's had surgery for the shoulder injury before. It "fixed" the problem. Then, scar tissue developed. And he's shoulder was effectively useless again. What guarantee do you have that the problem is now really "fixed"? And that it won't recur?

Shoulder injuries, especially of the type Rolen had are very serious. Much more serious than knee injuries for example. It well could be that that freak collision has derailed Rolen's career forever.

The concern isn't his defense. The concern is his offense. If his shoulder injury recurs, he is basically PEDRO FELIZ.

by rfloh on Nov 10, 2007 2:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Three years left? Isn't that just about perfect timing for the big vagina's arrival? (or whatever people are calling him these days)

by mxmob33 on Nov 9, 2007 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I'm going to start calling him Labia Majoris!

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I totally needed that laugh !! Well done sir. Thanks for starting my weekend off right.

My adopted son Matt Downs. He can hit a little.

by nvsfg on Nov 9, 2007 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

His power evaporated last year. I know he had some shoulder problems but he's owed a lot of money over the next three years. His age makes me think it's going to be awfully hard for him to be healthy over the next three years.

In his prime he was something special but I don't know how much of that player he is anymore.

by xanthan on Nov 9, 2007 3:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Wow, now many not only want Sexton but Rolan too!
Great rebuilding plan. NOT!

by giantsrainman on Nov 9, 2007 3:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

There's a small part of me that would love to see us get both of those guys just to see Sabean respond to "What happened to speed and defense? Getting younger? Helloooo?"

by KCE on Nov 9, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

NOT?

Rainman was hoping to say something more powerful. Or at least something more current.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 9, 2007 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I am over 50 years old. Why would I care about staying current with popular culture?

by giantsrainman on Nov 9, 2007 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Well you obviously made some sort of attempt...otherwise you wouldn't of said anything at all.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Nov 9, 2007 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

The statement had nothing to do with trying to sound hip cool or whatever the current phrase is. The statement was just that, a statement of my opinion.

by giantsrainman on Nov 9, 2007 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

It was a reference.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 9, 2007 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I'm NOT going to get into it with you. You thrive on conflict and I can find little reason for someone 50+ to make that kind of a reference. Especially when it's a term that's been used only semi-recently by people several generations younger than you.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Nov 10, 2007 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

what is your definition of generation?

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2007 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: what is your definition of generation?

Yes...I know...I was using that term loosely...but you get my point.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Nov 10, 2007 12:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

If you must know it entered my vocabulary thru my kids (the generation from which it came). How is this not common? And, why does it even matter? Why would not the fact that the meaning was understood by all be all that mattered.

by giantsrainman on Nov 10, 2007 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

It was a loosely quoted line from Arrested Development. Michael says that to a girl, and the narrator voices over with, "Michael was hoping..." It's really really funny, and I think many AD fans on this site got the reference. I don't care how old you are, Arrested Development is still funny.

Well, unless you're my dad, in which case he wouldn't have been able to get past the pilot, because Tobias is so ambiguously gay.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 12, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

NOT!

Rainman thinks he is hip! Ha! Just imagine his putting his left hand on his fat hips and then shaking his right index finger at you! Ooooooh! I'd better recognize rainman! Like, like, like totally!

*If it ask for username and password, input 1 and 1.

by kwyjibo on Nov 10, 2007 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Hehehehe....I totally agree with you. You needed to post this image for him too.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Nov 10, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

http://www.bluthfamily.com/episodes/out-on-a-limb/quotes.html

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Nov 10, 2007 1:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I just watched that episode a couple days ago.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Nov 9, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I think the whole "NOT" thing has a renewed ironic humor since Borat.

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 12, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zito fo Rolen

by wilriv21 on Nov 9, 2007 3:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Zito fo Rolen

William, how about Zito for Rolen and Duncan? I doubt the Cards would take it, but they are desperate for pitching, Chris is miscast as an OF, and Pujols has 1B locked up. Ignoring who gets the most salary relief (we could move the $ around as necessary), we'd accomplish:

3B solved for a few years
1B solved for a few years, or more
The Albatross Contract moved/eased/avoided
Cain and Lincecum untouched, Lowry still a bargaining chip available if needed elsewhere.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 10, 2007 8:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Zito fo Rolen

When was the last time a big time contract like Zito's was moved after less than 12 months?!? Has that ever happened in the history of time?!?

I'm getting fed up with people saying a Zito trade is the way to go. It's just not possible, and I'm sure he has some sort of no-trade clause in there.

In related news...I like unicorns and leprechauns too, but sadly they're about as real as a Zito trade possibility.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Nov 10, 2007 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Zito fo Rolen

I agree with PacBellBoozer.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 10, 2007 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Zito fo Rolen

I'd settle for Zito for a fungo bat. On a serious note, SF is gonna need a LHH with power. Durham has faded, Bonds is gone, Schierholtz is unknown, Ortmeier is a bench player and Lewis has some pop but not enough. Can't wait until Bowker arrives. So Duncan could very well fit into the SF line-up. Your reasoning is sound. Now only if we can get Ziot and the Cards on board. Maybe Mulder can talk to Zito.

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2007 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Zito fo Rolen

From what I remember, St. Louis is strapped for cash. I don't know if they'd be able or willing to take Zito, even if he magically waived his NTC.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Nov 10, 2007 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I'd be ok with this as long as we didn't give up much. Rolen's downside risk is mostly that he'll be injured rather than that he'll be healthy and suck ala Durham, Alfonzo, Roberts, Zito, Aurilia, and numerous other brilliant Sabean signings. Therefore, he'll likely either be good and play out the contract or he'll be hurt and not blocking anyone else who is potentially good.

Rajai Davis: fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Nov 9, 2007 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Not a lot of enthusiam here for Rolen, so let's assume for a second that other teams feel like we do; that's a lot of risk to give much for.

If Rolen really isn't in their plans and they want to dump his a salary dump, we say "We've got a shiny Dave Roberts to (sort of) fill that Rowand-shaped hole you have in CF."

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 9, 2007 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

The Cardinals starting outfield is full with Duncan, Edmonds, and Ankiel. The only way I see them seeing trading Rolan as opening a spot in the outfield is if the move Pujols to 3B and Duncan to 1B. Could this happen? Yea I guess it could. But I doubt if it will. Trading Rolan will most likely result in a hole at 3B not in the outfield. If the Cardinals are really trying to trade Rolan then they are most likely looking at getting into either the A-Rod, Cabrera, or Lowell markets.

by giantsrainman on Nov 9, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Though I didn't really consider where the Cardinals were in all of this when I made my response below, I think you're slightly missing the point of Goofus's question.

He doesn't mean specifically Roberts (though I took him literally, below). He meant, if the market for Rolen is universally low, and we can fill a need of theirs with little more than one of our contract dumps, how do we approach the trade in that case? That could mean Roberts, Durham, Winn, Aurilia, whatever fits. Obviously the first basemen (Aurilia) is a non option when talking the Cards, but it's an interesting way to think of this question.

Originally my line of thought on this was "ugh... what prospects make it worthwhile...?" But if the market is low, it might make more sense to pursue a salary dump kind of trade. We'd still be taking on more money, but we'd be opening spots that are currently blocked or overstuffed.

I like the thought. Nice, slightly outside the box take on the issue.

So in this revised scenario, who makes sense to give to them, and who is worth the trade? Like I said below, I'd trade Roberts in a second. Same goes for Durham and Aurilia, and possibly Winn, off the top of my head. If any of those guys make sense, I'm not sure, but it's better and more interesting than assuming it'll take Lowry, Sanchez, Correia, young talent.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

durham might be a better fit. He'd actually be an ugrade over Adam Kennedy with a definite higher upside than Kennedy. (lifetime 103 OPS= vs. 88).

The Giants would be getting the better player, but the Cards would be winning the salary part of the equation since Durham's is smaller and shorter.

That's what she said.

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 9, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Here's hoping we can find even one team who will look at Ray Durham's lifetime numbers over the numbers he put up last year.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 9, 2007 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I think I would trade Roberts for Rolen in the blink of an eye. But I probably don't mind taking the risk on his health as much as others do.

What's the difference here between Roberts and Misch (who I reference above) in my equation? We actually get a return on Roberts for doing nothing else than getting rid of him. We could drop Roberts and get a return on him because of the expanded playing time for Lewis/Davis. We get no return for simply throwing Misch away. Plus, in a straight deal, the monetary loss on a straight Roberts for Rolen trade vs. a straight Misch for Rolen trade is significantly less damaging.

Anyway, just trying to allay the "You wouldn't trade more than Misch before, but now you're all over it for Roberts???" comments.

So in my eyes, to recap: Roberts for Rolen + inherent return of OF playing time for youngsters + less damaging monetary difference > Misch for Rolen + none of that stuff.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I got lost in all your blah blah blah, but if you're saying you'd rather trade Roberts than Misch for Roland, then I agree. Primarily because it would shed Roberts' salary. (Misch is practically free.)

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 9, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Yeah. That's basically it. Roberts is blocking young talent and his salary is much more damaging. Misch is not blocking anybody (since he is young talent) and is very cheap.

Misch was my initial thought when I jumped straight to the "what youngster would you give up?" line of reasoning, so he was the bar I held Roberts against. It seems intuitively that we should get more back for Roberts than for Misch because of what he can do for a ML roster, but because of those reasons above, Roberts is actually more attractive to give up.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Any it would "block" Pedro right?? puh-lease?? Of course not, I mean, then Sabes would pull out his "solid utility man that gives us many options" crap. Ugh.

For WilltheThrill, this is Jon Miller saying goodnight. . . .

by WilltheThrill on Nov 9, 2007 3:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Actually, Pedro as a utilty guy is perfectly cool with me; solid defense at multiple positions and some pop off the bench. The problem is that he and Richie overlap and Richie is under contract.

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 9, 2007 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I don't about those two overlapping. They both play 3B, 1B, and SS, but Richie's got alot more time that all-important DL position.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 9, 2007 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

I sincerely believe the 2004 Giants should trade for Scott Rolen. He is the missing piece that will put them over the top.

Proud member of the Adopt-a-Marlin program (Todd Linden)

by antinous on Nov 9, 2007 4:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Yes!

Ha. We used to call that team the 1997 NL All-Stars.

by KCE on Nov 9, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

How about this, Winn (if he waves his no-trade) and Misch for Hank Blalock and Jason Botts. That would fill our corner infield problems, they're both 27 next year I believe so they're still young. Botts can't field but he can hit and he's a switch hitter and Blalock played well when he was on the field last year. Texas needs pitching and a CF so it seems to work out for both teams.

If Winn doesn't waive his no-trade maybe a combination of Roberts or Davis (though I really do like Davis) and Guillermo Rodriguez which would allow them to trade Laird and install Salty full time behind the plate.

I'm just speculating so don't hammer me too hard if this trade seems ridiculous.

by Keenlow on Nov 9, 2007 4:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Jason's maternal grandfather is a longtime Giants season ticket holder who presented Rod Beck on the field at Candlestick his award as the top reliever in SF history.

by sharksrog on Nov 9, 2007 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Nice detail, Rog. Thanks!

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 10, 2007 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

You're welcome, Lyle. I don't have many such details, but that is one I know well.

By the way, Rod Beck's wife Stacy seems like a very class act.

by sharksrog on Nov 11, 2007 12:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I wouldn't mind having Rolen, but the injury thing is really sticking in my mind. I can't help but think about Moises' time with the Giants where he was great while he was playing, but that was a rarity.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Nov 9, 2007 4:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Absolutely. And he ain't getting younger, so that injury possibility is just going to keep sitting there on the fringe. And we know how those nice, cold August nights are great for nagging injuries.

The Johnnie LeMaster fan club vice-president. E6 Forever!

by Van Smack on Nov 9, 2007 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Rolen is 23, has been playing in St. Louis where it's absolutely freezing and his nagging injury was most likely cleared by the surgery he underwent this year. He's been injured twice in his career. Those two years and last year when he spent most of the season in rehab are the only years he's ever posted an OPS+ under 119!!!!!! that's effing insane. He's one of the best third basemen in the game and is actually relatively cheap.

THIS IS BUYING ON THE LOW SABEAN IF YOU ARE LISTENING!!! please!

Lifetime EqA of .297, plays excellent defense, tall and funny looking.

PLEASE!!!!

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 10, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

also, i have lysdexia. Rolen is 32.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 10, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

RAB?

by kwyjibo on Nov 10, 2007 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

St Louis is freezing? Where did you get this silly idea and how would coming to San Francisco help out?

by giantsrainman on Nov 10, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

Apparently, ESPN insider says that Blalock could be had for Coco Crisp?? WOW if Boston pulled that off, oh my. Blalock would look good in a Giants Uni. Id much rather be going after Blalock than Rolen. Make the move Sabes! Winn for Blalock??

by krazybalr on Nov 9, 2007 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

It's hard to believe you have to pay extra to subscribe to ESPN insider and then have them give you some kind of "tip" that the Rangers would take Coco Crisp for Hank Blalock. What a waste of money. Why do I do it??

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 9, 2007 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I've always thought Blalock was an overrated player, who's been helped by early success & an offensive ballpark.

In the last three years he's put up an OPS of .669 away from home (.244, .296, .373) which makes Pedro Feliz look like an offensive monster.

That said, if he could be had for very little, it'd be worth a shot, given our lack of third base options.

by GiantFan on Nov 12, 2007 4:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Scott Rolen on the block

I'm not opposed to Rolen necessarily. I guess my goal would be to pick him up cheap (in terms of the talent traded to STL) in the hope of him having a good year. Then trade him and cash for prospects.

by Dan from NM on Nov 10, 2007 11:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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