Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

by Woody Wins on Nov 28, 2007 1:07 PM PST

This is a joke right?

I know we can put together a package better than that.

Say Lowry, Velez, and Hennessey???

I don't know, just thought I'd see if anyone has any more info about this rumor or if anyone else feels like the Twins are pillaging the Rays.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Twins def. pillaged. What worries me is what are the Giants waiting for? Who are we going after? Seems like its Cabrera or bust right now.

by S49erfan on Nov 28, 2007 12:52 PM PST reply actions

Twins def pillaged?

I'm stoopid, but would you mind explaining that? In your opinion, did the Twins wins or lose?

by rfloh on Nov 28, 2007 12:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Twins def pillaged?

I think the Twins won. They land Delmon young AND a future stud CF and a middle infielder. I mean Garza isnt that good. Dont you think even Sanchez could have landed Young? I just wonder why we didnt get involved.

by S49erfan on Nov 28, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

Sanchez /= Garza, not even close

Also calling Pridie a future stud already is a huge huge stretch.

Jason Bartlett isn't small shakes either.

This is a pretty solid deal for both teams.

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 28, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Twins def pillaged?

Young only would have gone for a young stud SP along the lines of Lincecum, Garza, Hughes, etc. so it makes sense. Sanchez wouldn't come close, unfortunately. I wish it was that easy.

I think this was a very fair trade for both sides, perhaps a BIT in the Twins' favor. Not entirely sure.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Nov 28, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions

Just a year ago,

Garza was considered to be in the same tier of pitchers as Yovani Gallardo. Not in the Lincecum class, but close.

by rfloh on Nov 28, 2007 9:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Oops...beat out by 47 seconds...my bad.

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 28, 2007 12:52 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Since there were already comments on this thread, I deleted the other. Let the record show that s49erfan posted first.

This is my signature, not yours.

by Goofus on Nov 28, 2007 12:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Thanks Goofus...I felt bad for robbing 9er fan.

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 28, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

No worries.

by S49erfan on Nov 28, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

So I guess you're not an NFL referee, then.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 29, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions

ML trading is back

I am old enough to remember the good ole days of the baseball winter meetings meant blockbuster deals. Can we play?

by wilriv21 on Nov 28, 2007 12:56 PM PST reply actions

Re: ML trading is back

er. this is a huge deal. supposed future MVP and Cy Young being dealt along with a slew of good players is nothing to sneeze at.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 28, 2007 5:49 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ML trading is back

I believe that's what he was saying. He just wants the Giants to make some big moves too.

Adoptive father of David Quinowski: Fuck it, dude, let's go bowling

by marcello on Nov 28, 2007 8:29 PM PST up reply actions

Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

thanks for the accurate interpretation

by wilriv21 on Nov 28, 2007 8:34 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

oh balls, that means i lose.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 28, 2007 8:57 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

Don't think of it as losing, so much as "failing to win." Emphasis on failing.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 29, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

Dang it. I put the emphasis on the quotation marks. I guess I fail to win too.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Nov 29, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

failure is just success rounded down my friend.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 29, 2007 5:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

T-Rex FTW!

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 29, 2007 11:02 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Marcello wins the WilRiv translating award

I was hoping someone would get it!

Absolutely one of the classic comics ever. Then they turned it into a shirt!

i wish they'd also make on of happy ladies with steaks.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 30, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Matt Garza is a much, much better pitcher than Noah Lowry. The Devil Rays' FO is smart enough to realize that Lowry's shiny ERA is, thanks to weak peripherals, a house of cards.

And Jason Bartlett is already a better than average major league shortstop. It's really not such a heist.

by Steve on Nov 28, 2007 12:58 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Garza doesn't have great, or even good, peripherals either. Unless I'm missing something, Garza doesn't seem to be too far ahead of Lowry.

Also, Bartlett just turned 28 so he's no tyke. He OPSed a cool .700 in his first full year so what makes him so shiny?

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 28, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Matt Garza in the minor leagues has a career 2.88 ERA in the minor leagues, with 338 strikeouts in 303 innings. His major league numbers are nothing to sneeze about either, especially for a rookie: 4.47 ERA, 2/1 K/B ratio. And he has stuff that scouts drool over.

Lowry, meanwhile, has had an increasing walk rate and a decreasing K rate for the last 3 years, to the point that he walked as many as he struck out last year. I'm not saying he doesn't have any trade value. But he doesn't have any trade value to a smartly run organization like the Devil Rays, who already had 4 starters better than Noah Lowry even before this trade (Price, Kazmir, Shields, Niemann).

Jason Bartlett is nothing to write home about, especially after 2007, but in 2006 he had an OPS of .760 (including an OBP of .367) while playing above-average defense in a tough AL Central. The Rays were one of the worst teams in the baseball last year turning balls in play into outs, and Bartlett should help that.

A league average shortstop at major league minimum? I'll take two, please.

by Steve on Nov 28, 2007 1:23 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

If not Lowry, then how about Sanchez?? His K numbers are better than Garza's. You don't think giving them Lowry AND Sanchez is a better package than the Twins are giving up?? Two good lefthanded pitchers?? Then again, maybe Sabean thinks he can get more.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 28, 2007 6:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Do you realize that Garza was one of the top 5 pitching prospects in all of baseball just a year ago? He's a really good pitcher and far more highly regarded than Lowry/Sanchez ever were.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 28, 2007 7:10 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

I actually drafted Garza for my Yahoo fantasy baseball team last March (last selection). I was very disappointed he started the season in the minors. I don't think that was an unreasonable choice - I think Garza has a high upside. And I actually won my league.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 29, 2007 7:23 AM PST up reply actions

I used my last pick to take Tim Lincecum at $1

it was/is (keeper league) pretty sweet

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 29, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions

What makes Bartlett so shiny?

In 2007, which was not his best year, Baseball Prosectus had him at 4 runs below average offensively. BBRef's Batting Runs had him at 7 runs below average.

Defensively, he is very good, about 10 runs above average.

So in total, offense and defense, slightly, 0-5 runs above average. This is before adjusting for the fact that he plays SS. If you're conservative, give him 5 runs for playing SS, and he is 5-10 runs above average, 0.5 to 1 win above average. A more aggressive adjustment, 10 runs for playing SS, and he is 10-15 runs above average, 1-1.5 wins above average.

To cap this, he has only 2 years of service time. So, an average to above average player earning a bargain salary. Shiny.

by rfloh on Nov 28, 2007 1:33 PM PST up reply actions

Re: What makes Bartlett so shiny?

Ok, so cutting through all the statistics (I put a lot of value in that POV), do you feel the Rays got the better deal?

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 28, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions

IMO, without doing more research

I feel that the Twins got the better end of a generally "fair" deal. Simply because Young is the best talent in the deal. Note, that I said best talent. Right now, he still has huge holes, both offensively and defensively.

by rfloh on Nov 28, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Garza has the ceiling of a number 2, in all probablity, a number 3 ... bartlett isnt necessary in that organization as they have brignac ready come next year. I cant see how you can justify trading away a potential .300 30+ hrs 100+ rbi young player under control for many more years.

If the deal was for Young alone, I still think the Twins in this deal ... never mind getting a future centerfielder of the future and an adaquate middle infield backup in harris.

nice more Billy Smith

"I've got a few ideas I'd like to bounce off Sabean." "Odd, because I have a few objects I'd like to bounce off Sabean."

by jfucsd10 @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 28, 2007 1:14 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

They also gave up Juan Rincon, a previously elite-level reliever with declining results over the last few years. Sound like anyone who got a massive contract this year, maybe a guy that rhymes with Minebrink?

Steroid suspension notwithstanding, I'd be shocked if the Rays FO wasn't able to flip Rincon for something pretty useful, considering how teams tend to wildly overvalue proven relief pitching.

by Steve on Nov 28, 2007 1:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

uhh. it's a very good move for the twins, I agree.

However, Matt Garza was just about a step below Homer Bailey prospect-wise. He did nothing in his first season to disappoint really and he's still one of the better young pitchers. The dude has the cieling of a dominant one, may end up a very good two.

The rays said they wanted another shortstop to challenge brignac for the shortstop job next year. Bartlett is cost controlled, great defensively and though he has the pop of a flan in a cupboard, he's still a valuable player. They may move brignac to second and play that combo up the middle with Longoria and Pena on the wings. That's a good infield.

As far as the future centerfielder of the future who would actually probably step in and start in center, he's actually about the same type of player as Torii Hunter. Probably more walks and not quite as good defense.

This is a good move for both teams, but i think Smith has the upper hand in this one.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 28, 2007 5:56 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Troy Percival to Rays, too:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3131988&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

by KCE on Nov 28, 2007 1:53 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

I heard this report is premature and Percival could he headed elsewhere.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 28, 2007 6:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Please, not here.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 29, 2007 9:22 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Devil Rays starting rotation in a couple years could be really good.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Nov 28, 2007 5:36 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

I like this trade for both teams, but the Twins slightly more because come on... Delmon has superstar potential. That said, this improves the Rays pitching and their defense.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 28, 2007 6:33 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

I'd probably lean a little bit towards the Twins too, I think Delmon could be something special. I was surprised the D-Rays moved him so fast, though Garza is a legit pitching talent, too.

by xanthan on Nov 28, 2007 7:52 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

So this probably sets up the Santana trade that would bring back two young, cheap pitchers, right?

by cheno on Nov 28, 2007 8:09 PM PST reply actions

Sets up a great winter meetings

The Twins could get very fortunate to have the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers in a bidding war for Johan Santana. This Garza/Young deal could be the precursor to a great winter meetings trading extravaganza.

by wilriv21 on Nov 28, 2007 8:13 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

The trade looks quite a bit better for the D-Rays now that Rincon has been replaced by Morlan. That said, I'd still give the edge to the Twins for now.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 28, 2007 8:18 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Yeah, it probably depends who you like more, Garza or Young, both are good prospects but I like Young a little more.

by xanthan on Nov 28, 2007 8:25 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

It seems like I'm one of the few people who thinks the D-Rays win this trade. They dealt from strength and addressed their most glaring need. Garza is a potential low 1 in my mind. Delmon is amazingly talented too, assuming he develops plate discipline, but he's also a risk due to his character issues. When it's all said and done, I'd rather have the impact pitcher than the impact bat.

Adoptive father of David Quinowski: Fuck it, dude, let's go bowling

by marcello on Nov 28, 2007 8:41 PM PST reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

I can see that. I certainly think the Rays did do well for themselves and did deal from a strength. They could be assembling a great rotation to go with a very talented lineup. And I worry that the Twins are depleting their pitching depth by dealing Garza and (assumably) Santana (and resting their pitching hopes firmly on the slender frame of Liriano). But they made a move to shore up their offensive needs that you really have to like. A Morneau/Young/Mauer middle of the lineup could be special. I like it both ways.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 29, 2007 6:24 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Course the rumors that I'm hearing now about the Red Sox offer suggest to me that the Twins got more out of Matt Garza than they're likely to get out of Johan Santana which does seem a bit off.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 29, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Matt Garza For Delmon Young Blockbuster Close

Santana considerations:

Santana has one year left on his contract and he might opt to hit the market if he cant get Zito+ dollars.
Santana cooled off for much of August and September. Maybe a concern, maybe not.

I dunno. I think he's a far better pitcher than Garza will ever come close to being, but maybe that's what other clubs are thinking about.

Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 30, 2007 7:51 AM PST up reply actions

I'm envious

Minnesota, a small market team, has three young studs in the middle of the batting order in JMaurer, JMorneau and DYoung. Two of the best young pitchers in baseball in JSantana and FLiriano. And did I mention a new ballpark is on the way? Maybe that rocker was wrong when he said "You can't always get what you want". I bet if Sabean tried sometimes he would get what we need.

by wilriv21 on Nov 29, 2007 12:58 PM PST reply actions