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Mets inquired about Molina...

by sfgreg on Nov 24, 2007 8:18 PM PST Comment 41 comments

According to Rosenthal the Mets called about Molina...

The Mets inquired about the Giants' Molina at the general managers' meetings, and they could attempt to revive the talks by offering newly acquired Johnny Estrada and perhaps another player. It is unclear whether the Giants want to trade Molina, however, and their trade leverage would be compromised by the $6 million that Molina is owed in each of the next two seasons. ...

I am all for trading Molina, but I wouldn't be wild about getting Estrada in return. Maybe Brian should call his old pal Dusty to see if he is interested in a veteran catcher.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480346?forum_key=StoryComments&topic_key=7480346&page_no =3

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Do you think Bengie will be traded?

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This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

We don't have to trade Molina. He's coming off a good year. He's veteran catcher who seems to work reasonably well with the young pitching staff. I don't expect him to hit .700 or whatever with RISP again, but he's still one of the better hitting catchers out there. It's not like we need his salary to sign ARod or anything like that.

I would only trade Molina if two conditions were met:

We get a young player who is a clear upgrade at some other position. Not sure who that would be on the Mets, but I suppose Lastings Milledge would qualify.
We had another deal in place to get a MLB ready catching prospect like Jeff Clement who has a chance to eventually be an upgrade over Molina.

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 24, 2007 8:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I wouldn't be so picky. I think the Giants need to bring in talented players anywhere, anyway they can. If that means taking a chance on a risky youngster -- someone much further from the bigs than Milledge -- then so be it.

And who care if we find another catcher? We can worry about filling in the holes when we're ready to contend. Right now, we need as much talent as we can get pretty much anywhere.

by Dan from NM on Nov 24, 2007 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mets Farm System

John Sickels is going to rate the Mets system next over on minorleagueball.com. He's already signalled that he does not think highly of it. "OMG, what a mess," or something to that effect.

The fact it, outside of Milledge, the Mets don't have anything that's better than what we already have, and Milledge is a close call.

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 24, 2007 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets Farm System

That's why I think we should get them to eat another contract of ours like Durham or Roberts for example, then it might make it worth it.

If Benjie was going to be a key part of the future I would say keep him, but since I don't think that will happen, I say get what you can for him. And if getting Milledge and dumping Roberts (ala Benitez) is what we can do with Molina, I would strike while the iron is hot.

Brian Wilson for Closer!

by BawLa on Nov 25, 2007 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Because a pitching team needs a good catcher to partner the pitchers with.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 25, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Dr., I already posted Bengie's batting average with RISP. It was less than half your ".700" figure -- .335 IIRC.

Bengie hit amazing close with RISP to what A.J.
Pierzynski hit in 2004. And the two were within four RBI's of each other, as well.

I'm not trying to downgrade Bengie -- I would do that with his fielding, not his hitting -- I'm merely trying to demonstrate that A.J. hit much better for the Giants than he is given credit for.

by sharksrog on Nov 25, 2007 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tongue In Cheek

The .700 was a tongue-in-cheek comment. I agree with you on AJ. I actually liked the way AJ handled the pitchers and he wasn't as bad a hitter as is generally thought. A very unfortunate chain of events, that trade and it's aftermath. Beating a dead horse here, but the whole atmosphere was poisonous and I'm not sure it was all AJ's fault.

He and Sabes got off on the wrong foot when Sabean tried to intimidate him into not going to arbitration when it was obvious he had more value than what the Giants were offering.

I know Tomko hated him, but I'm not sure it's a no-brainer that Tomko was right. Tomko actually pitched better with AJ behind the plate than Matheny.

I think we now know that there was absolutely no leadership coming from the managers office during that time.

I'm sure AJ could be a real jerk. There's absolutely no excuse for kicking the trainer in the nuts. I just think it could have all been different if Sabean had backed up his own trade by paying AJ what he was worth off the bat.

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 25, 2007 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Tongue In Cheek

I think he WAS paying AJ what he was worth. It's not like AJ has made big numbers since he left the Giants. You can't just pay a guy more money because he thinks he's better than what he actually is. If he had paid AJ what he made in arbitration and then continued to go the arb route with him, he would have wound up paying AJ way more than he has ever made on the FA market.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 25, 2007 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Then whythehell did he make the trade in the first place? Everything up to that point suggested AJ was indeed worth that much and more. Sabes must have thought he was worth something to give up all those pitchers. He made the deal as if he thought AJ was worth a lot, then when it came time to write the check, he seemed to have changed his mind.

My point is that by squeezing AJ on salary, Sabes basically proved that he didn't believe in his own trade. Proving he knew or should have known it was a bad trade from the get go. Proving he should have been fired after it became clear what a disaster it was, which was quite soon.

by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 25, 2007 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OK

Perhaps Sabean didn't believe he was giving up that much. Nathan had been a deer in the headlights during the playoffs and had an injury history, Sabean probably thought that Liriano would never get healthy either, and Bonser was overrated. I don't remember too many people thinking that he gave up too much for AJ at the time of the trade.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 25, 2007 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OK

In showing your own views on this subject, each of you keeps posting bad moves that Brian either did make or might have.

I really can't understand how after being so very good for six years, Brian suddenly lost it five years ago. Not every move in the past five seasons has been a bad one, but he's made so many head-scratchers, often compounding one with another.

by sharksrog on Nov 26, 2007 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: OK

I could imagine that making enough moves that people hate or at least question could cause one to lose their nerve. Next thing you know, you're afraid to make the bold moves you made in the past, either for fear of losing your job or fear of pissing off the fanbase.

That's how I think he could have lost it.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 26, 2007 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Tongue In Cheek

I know Tomko hated him, but I'm not sure it's a no-brainer that Tomko was right

And let's not forget that Tomko was a real dick who kept on complaining even after A.J. left. I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. But what he did to Conte's boys is inexcusable.

by Cookyman on Nov 25, 2007 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Tongue In Cheek

Tomko is a pissy little beeyotch. Even in LA, he was a pissy little beeyotch. Makes one wonder how the smoking hot Mrs. Tomko lives each day knowing her husband is a pissy little beeyotch.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 26, 2007 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Oh, I'm all for trading Bengie, assuming we get reasonable value in return. I'd take less than Milledge. The 08-09 Giants are nothing great and, to be honest, neither is Bengie. His defense is poor and his OBP...well, he's a non-Bonds Giant, 'nuf said. I'm not the prospect hound some here are, but if Milledge is an A- prospect, I'd take a B or B+.

I got one word for you: "youneverknow"

by senorvegas on Nov 24, 2007 9:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

The Mets are our most obvious partners out there, and the Rockies, Marlins, Nats, Astros could also be interested in Molina. I like the idea of dealing Bengie because he's our only decent chip other than our young pitching, he's coming off a decent year, and he's likely to be on the decline by the time we're competitive again.

But we're already going crazy trying to figure out where our power supply is going to come from next year... it'd have to be a pretty good deal. Maybe we get a piece or two to deal for Cabrera or Crawford?

I'd be pleased if we met DrB's conditions: Clement, Milledge, Lincecum and Cain would get a lot of people excited about this team's young core.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Nov 24, 2007 9:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

You're not getting Lastings Milledge for Bengie Molina, in my opinion. The Mets have made it pretty clear that they're going after pitching this offseason and guys like Milledge, Gomez, and Martinez are going to be held to be used as chips in trades for pitchers. Right now their rotation is two brittle veterans in Pedro Martinez and El Duque, John Maine, head case Oliver Perez and a rookie who flat out stunk last year in Mike Pelfrey. Their bullpen is not very good either outside of Billy Wagner. Upgrading catcher to them is a luxury, upgrading the pitching staff a necessity. If you want to get Molina for Milledge, you're going to have to expand the deal and perhaps give them Lowry and/or Sanchez.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 25, 2007 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I want to see Molina traded because I can't imagine that his value will ever be this high again. For pretty much all of the usual reasons. That's not to say that his value is really significantly high, but I doubt it will ever be higher.

And for a guy with zero chance to be on the team in 2010 (I certainly hope), AND with two catchers on the 40 with major league experience, I think selling high is the most favorable thing we can do with him. Even if that "high" is all relative.

Of course it depends what we get back, but any young body that's not a failed or hopeless prospect is a decent place to start (not to end, but to start).

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2007 11:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Am I the only one who noticed that Bengie had the worst year among his last 5?

by kingofthacove on Nov 25, 2007 1:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

...and he's really kind of bad defensively. Not in terms of SB, which he managed to do all right, but his Wild Pitches + Passed Balls per game was second in the NL behind Miguel Olivo (and at .460 it was .08 ahead of the third place catcher.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 25, 2007 2:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I think the point is that trading Molina now would actually be at a lower value, not a higher one.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 25, 2007 3:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Although far from impossible, Bengie's value in the future isn't likely to be higher than it is now.

by sharksrog on Nov 25, 2007 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Don't you think that the wild pitches and passed balls had something to do with Lincecum & Cain. Cain led the NL with 12 WP and Lincecum was 4th in the league with 10 WP.

by Cainer on Nov 25, 2007 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Well, my personal opinion (based on what I saw last year) was that a lot of those wild pitches were at least partially on Molina.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 25, 2007 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Bengie's defense has been consistently declining since his two Gold Glove seasons. The past two years he's been well below average IMO.

by sharksrog on Nov 25, 2007 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

But he was so clutch

nggggh!

by xanthan on Nov 25, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Duuuuuuuuuuuuude. They'll hear you.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 25, 2007 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

If the Giants could deal Molina to the Mets for Estrada and a prospect it would seem to make a lot of sense. Estrada is a couple years younger and only a 1yr commitment at a little over 3M per I believe, plus he's from Hayward. Which means absolutley nothing baseball wise, but whatever. Neither guy has a great on base percentage and Molina certainly has more pop in his bat but you would have to think Estrada would be able to exploit the gaps in ATT. The prospect would just be an additional bonus to shedding the 12M or so we owe Molina over the next couple years.

Besides looking at Molina always brings back the emotional trauma of 2002, and he's just so damn slow.

by brian on Nov 25, 2007 2:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I don't think there is ANY commitment to Estrada, who is arb-eligible.

by sharksrog on Nov 25, 2007 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I would take Molina over Estrada every day of the week.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 25, 2007 7:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Me, too. It would depend on the prospect we get back.

by Dan from NM on Nov 25, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Me too. I think I'd rather have almost any catcher in the majors (well, maybe not LoDuca) over Estrada. He sucks, he's slow, he's horrible defensively and he has a horrible, poisonous attitude. The last thing we want for our young pitchers is to have them throw to someone like Estrada.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 25, 2007 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I would take Bengie over Estrade only on the days ending with "y."

by sharksrog on Nov 25, 2007 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

the beauty about trading for Estrada is that he can be non-tendered. If we get a prospect along with him, that prospect could possibly help bring back a young catching prospect like Clement or an inf prospect.

The Giants aren't going to contend next year, we all know this, so at this point it should be about collecting as many assets as possible. If it takes trading Molina, who is one of the few giant non pitchers with some value right now, then so be it.

by brian on Nov 25, 2007 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Hopefully the Brian who just posted that we can't contend last year doesn't have the last name of Sabean. How about this?? Sign Andruw Jones. Trade Durham for Sexson. Put Sanchez and Lowry in a package for the very available Jason Bay. Presto! Instant heart of the order. Put the speed around those guys and that pitching staff and you don't think this team can contend next year?? It would take bounceback years from all three, but it could certainly happen.

SIGN ANDRUW JONES!!

by rxmeister on Nov 25, 2007 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Trade Lowry and Sanchez for a guy who hit under .250 last year? I would hope we could get a little more for those two. I've always thought Jones was overrated. His defense has slipped and he' only hit .300 once in his career (2000) and you know Boras is going to demand top dollar for his client. If the market isn't there for him and we can get him on a two or three year deal it might not be a bad idea. That seems unlikely after Hunter's deal though. Sexson can hit homers but doesn't do much else. I would love to shed Durham's contract but I think we would still owe Sexson 14m in 09 which is scary. Plus all three of those guys block young players the Giants should probably get a look at.

I like your enthusiasm rx but I just don't see all three of those guys bouncing back. I'd say Bay is the most likely candidate but I don't know if I'd trade a live arm like sanchez and a solid albeit not spectacular pitcher like Lowry for him, after his down year. If we could buy low on him that'd be a different story

Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this

and know this is not brian sabean...lol

by brian on Nov 26, 2007 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Richie Sexson 1b
4 years/$50M (2005-08)

$6M signing bonus
05:$4.5M, 06:$11.5M, 07:$14M, 08:$14M
signed as a free agent 12/04
4 years/$17M (2001-04)source:Cot's

Sexson is owed $14M in 2008 only. A trade for Durham would essentially be a "salary" dump for the M's and change of scenery for Sexson. If the M's would include Clement in a deal with pitching (Lowry) I think it would be a good move for the Giants. If Sexson totally blows, it's a one year problem for the G's. If he somehow produces any power, it's a plus for the Giants. The key is getting Clement included in the deal. A young, power hitting catcher with passable defense is just what the doctor ordered. Lowry is one of the few expendable MLB ready pitchers in the Giants system right now.

My adopted son Matt Downs. He can hit a little.

by nvsfg on Nov 26, 2007 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

I stand corrected on sexson then. A 1 yr commitment wouldn't be bad, but I agree with you Clement would have to be included in that deal.

by brian on Nov 26, 2007 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Lets see:

Winn/Roberts Rf
Fransden 2b
Bay Lf
Jones Cf
Sexson 1b
Molina C
Aurilia 3b
Vizquel SS
Pitcher

Cain
Linc
Zito
Correia
Someone

Wilson 9
Walker 8
Henn Long
Kline Loogy

Fransden and Vizquel may swap. Not a lot of speed but decent 1st to 3rd and some double digit base thieves. Not a lot of youth. But if Bay, Jones, and Sexson all rebound... and the Giants successfully sign them all... and the youthful aces and relievers don't regress... you've got a contender!

by kennv on Nov 26, 2007 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Well now we've got a serious problem with our starting rotation.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 26, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Mets inquired about Molina...

Great catchers are rare and we certainly don't have one, but the worst thing you can do is have a cancerous one like A.J. Estrada sounds like another A.J. to I'd steer clear absent a great prospect from the Mets (which you're not going to get).

by NearestNorwich on Nov 25, 2007 2:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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