Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
Hey, I don't know how many people are interested in this but The A's apparently have invited a couple of ex-Giants players to spring training, Justin Knoedler and Todd Linden.
I always liked Knoedler and don't think he was ever given a fair shot by the Giants to prove what he was capable of, I hope he claims the A's backup job behind Suzuki though it seems unlikely because they have Bowen on board already.
I was a Linden believer until the very end, and although I was wrong about him I still hope he sticks in the Majors as at least a 4th outfielder.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/team/roster_nri.jsp?c_id=oak
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44 comments
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Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by jponry on Nov 21, 2007 4:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by NearestNorwich on Nov 21, 2007 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by rellubcat on Nov 22, 2007 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 22, 2007 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by PacBellBoozer on Nov 23, 2007 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
*not in any way, shape, or form meant as a racial slur.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 21, 2007 4:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh no you didn't
* Asterisks are reserved for sports records.
by wilriv21 on Nov 21, 2007 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Oh no you didn't
by PacBellBoozer on Nov 21, 2007 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Oh no you didn't
by joeytothelimit on Nov 21, 2007 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Oh no you didn't
by wilriv21 on Nov 21, 2007 10:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Oh no you didn't
by PacBellBoozer on Nov 23, 2007 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 21, 2007 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU!
by Anticon23 on Nov 21, 2007 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
partly true
also the majority of their prospects the last couple yrs, the letdown is mainly due to injuries, rather than poor performance. is that really the GM's fault?
also since their mlb team was decimated with injuries it put a strain of the farm system at the upper levels. Buck, Barton, Suzuki, Putnam, Melillo, Braden, Meyer would've likely not spent stretches of the season atthe mlb level
their next wave of prospects should be ready in a yr or two. and if the rumors are true, Beane likely will trade away a player or two out of the Haren/Blanton/Street/Gaudin/Ellis group to fill those gaps in the upper minors during that time.If that happens, i dont think its as bleak as you think it seems to be. they'll likely get a haul of at least 5 mlb ready prospects to add to their current core of players that are still young themselves in the early-mid 20's
by rayver723 on Nov 21, 2007 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: partly true
I'll say it again. The A's MLB roster is a mess. They ain't going to the playoffs with the current lineup. The only way to upgrade is to cripple the pitching staff for the next 2-3 years.
Yeah, Billy's a genius alright.
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 21, 2007 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: partly true
by rayver723 on Nov 21, 2007 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Overvalue
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 22, 2007 6:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Saying things again doesn't make
Lineup:
1b: Barton
2b Ellis
SS: Crosby
3b: Chavez
RF: Swisher
CF: Denorfia
LF: Buck
C: Suzuki
DH: Cust
2 obvious holes at SS and CF. Everyone else is average or better, taking into account offense and defense.
Yeah, that lineup really really blows. Yeah, that lineup really really needs 5 MLB ready prospects. Where the f*** are those 5 MLB ready prospects going to play? There are 2 big holes in the lineup, that's it.
by rfloh on Nov 22, 2007 4:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Non Holes
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 22, 2007 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Non Holes
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. We have much to be thankful for -- except the Giants' hitting, of course.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I use the Giants as a comparison?
Take Ellis. His offense is nothing special, around average. Defensively, he has a case as the best 2b in MLB. Offense + defense he is average in his worst year, well above average when he is hitting decently.
Swisher is an above average hitter, who is also a very good defender.
Buck, Barton, Suzuki are all at ages where they should improve. Even Swisher is young enough that an improvement is not unreasonable. That's 4 starters in the lineup
Who cares if none of them are HOF players? I'm not contending that the A's are some juggernaut who will crush other teams.
You stated " The A's major league roster is an absolute mess," and "I'll say it again. The A's MLB roster is a mess".
A lineup and roster filled with average or above average players is not an "absolute mess".
Your rant would have been more appropriate at the start of the season when Beane foolishly signed Piazza. Your claims about an "absolute mess" would have been more accurate at the start of the season when Beane didn't want to admit that Kendall was crap.
by rfloh on Nov 22, 2007 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Did I use the Giants as a comparison?
The A's current MLB roster is a mess because it can't compete for the playoffs in their division and league and they have no good way of fixing it. They have a bunch of OBP guys who don't get on base all that well and virtually no impact power.
As for trades, you are overvaluing Ellis and Johnson, and you're in the same boat with Gaudin as with Blanton. If you trade even one plitcher, it leaves your rotation short with nobody to replace them. The day you see Blanton or Gaudin traded is the day you will know The Genius has run up the white flag on the next 2-3 years.
As for the farm system, BA has ranked it #17, 22, 19 and 27 the last 4 years. Think help is coming from the 2007 draft? Here's what BA had to say about it: "Oakland went back to what it does well- drafting college players-and did well from that pool. The organization needs an infusion of impact talent, though, and this draft class didn't provide that."
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 22, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you actually even read my post?
Where in blazes did I even mention trades? Where in blazes did I even mention Dan Johnson?
I'm not assuming any trades AT ALL. I'm evaluating the roster as currently constructed.
Where in blazes did I call Beane a "genius"?
As for getting into the playoffs, you noticed that the Mariners contended for the playoffs most of the season right? Most teams do not have HOFs in multiple spots. Most teams have holes in their roster. Most teams are not 95 win juggernauts. How many wins do you think the current A's roster is capable of winning? In terms of wins, what qualifies as a mess?
Yeah, they were ranked #17, 22, 19, 27 the last 4 years. Big deal. That farm still produced Barton, Buck and Suzuki. In the end, rankings don't matter . What matters is the final result.
by rfloh on Nov 22, 2007 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
You are right. Results are what matters. The results of Billy Beane's management of the A's roster is a slow, but steady, slide to mediocrity which is exactly what you would expect from drafting exclusively low risk, low ceiling players.
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 23, 2007 7:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Did you actually even read my post?
by kwyjibo on Nov 23, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The majors roster of the A's is an absolute
That's pretty much it.
That lowly rated farm still produced Buck, Barton and Suzuki, to name recent graduates.
Jack Cust and Chad Gaudin are also what "Moneyball" has wrought.
by rfloh on Nov 21, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: The majors roster of the A's is an absolute
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Nov 21, 2007 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Moneyball is overrated
He's ability to pickup good players on the cheap: Cust and Gaudin, is still there.
The best players on the team are actually the cheapest players on the team.
Regardless, much of the crap like Kendall, Piazza et al are gone or will be gone soon.
The start of 2007 was actually a better time for the Beane haters to come out of the woodwork and take shots at Beane than now. The A's 2008 roster will be fairly different from the roster that opened the 2007 season.
Buck, Barton and Suzuki unlike Kotsay, Kendall, Piazza, are talented young players with an upward trajectory. Cust, even with a regression to an OPS of around 850 is an MLB calibre hitter, NOT an AAAA hitter who would get killed by MLB pitching, as claimed by his detractors.
by rfloh on Nov 22, 2007 4:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Moneyball is overrated
Billy has essentially done about as well as Brian -- without the advantage of having Barry Bonds. Billy is also well ahead of Brian for the future at this point -- although we are hoping that will change within three or four years.
Billy makes mistakes too. He merely does more good things.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Future?
by DrBGiantsfan on Nov 22, 2007 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Future?
frandsen/davis/lewis/schierholtz/ortmeier
just my opinion but that would make a great bench for most teams, for the giants thats their future
do giants have anyone else ready anytime soon?
maybe bowker/timpner/burris/villalona/07 draft class
by the way i like schierholtz as a hitter, but his walk rate is very pedro feliz like, he better keep up that .300 avg because an .800 + OPS will be hard to maintain in the majors
here's the A's
buck/suzuki/barton/swisher
where the A's lack is they potentially have lots of major leguers in their system, but not the huge upside. but their success rate of producing position prospects is way ahead of the giants. it might change 3 yrs or so yrs from now, if and when those 18/19 yrs old are ready to produce for the giants
their 07 drafts show a big difference in philosophy, sabean went for upside, beane went college heavy picks
like i said before giants dont have many marketable players outside of their pitching to fill those offensive needs. so either they pay a ton of money out or wait several yrs for those other prospects to develop. i believe this can be considered yr 3 of their rebuilding currently. so either sabean can trade a lowry/sanchez or wait it out.
A's can still trade their 2nd tier players like an ellis/DJ/gaudin, get useful players out of those deals to add to their current core
by rayver723 on Nov 22, 2007 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Future?
I do like the Giants' pitching, primarily the young starters, but at the moment their hitting is the worst in the major leagues.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by llamalimbo1 on Nov 21, 2007 5:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by NeifiChicken on Nov 21, 2007 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
*I have no idea what an "Oakland A" is or why anybody is talking about it.
by Ghost11 on Nov 21, 2007 6:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by Todd Linden on Nov 21, 2007 7:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
What happened? The sample size, while obviously Minor Leaage heavy, wasn't insignificant, and didn't suggest meltdown. You guys think that this was some sort of six month aberration that happened to coincide with his Major Leage debut, or that Linden is simply a AAAA player at best?
Any examples of late-bloomer types who needed 1000 AB's after so long a tour of the minors, but still succeeded?
by biff pocoroba on Nov 21, 2007 10:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by sharksrog on Nov 22, 2007 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
Linden's probably worth a shot as a spring training invitee, and i'd imagine he'll catch on somewhere, even if it's not at the major league level.
by GiantFan on Nov 22, 2007 3:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Ex-Giants invited by A's to S.T.
by antinous on Nov 22, 2007 11:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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