Giants have made Lincecum available?

by Aadik on Nov 2, 2007 12:37 PM PDT

From Rotoword:

Lincecum, their No. 1 pick in 2006, can be had for a quality bat."
Maybe he has Lincecum confused with Noah Lowry. It wouldn't be his sloppiest writing in the column. Ringolsby leads off his article with: "After giving up three of its top five pitching prospects in July of 2006 to acquire Livan Hernandez from Arizona ... Arizona finds itself searching for rotation help." Ignoring the obvious gaffe that they made the trade with themselves, the Diamondbacks actually gave up only two prospects and the deal was done in August. But other than that, he's nearly spot on. OK, back to Lincecum. He simply cannot be had for a quality bat. Maybe he'll be available in return for an exceptional bat. The only player we can think of that qualifies and might be available is Miguel Cabrera.

Seriously? Who wants to lead the pitchfork brigade?

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Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

Here comes the rage....

3,2,1....

by xanthan on Nov 2, 2007 12:24 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

I think roto is right and he confused Lincecum with Lowry.

BECAUSE NO.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 2, 2007 12:24 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

And he also confused no. 2 pick with no. 1 and 2006 with 2001. I gotta agree with you though, because the depth of stupidity otherwise is unimaginable.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Nov 2, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

If they trade the Enchanter anytime in the next few years, I'm pretty sure I would cry. Seriously.

Unless in return we get, say, the Yankees.

I'm a Giants fan because my dad realized at a very young age that the Phillies suck.

by oneflapdown on Nov 2, 2007 12:35 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

If the Giants traded Tim this winter, I would be forced to root for his new team after over 50 years as a Giants fan.

by sharksrog on Nov 2, 2007 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

you would dump the Giants if they traded Lincecum, but not Bonds?? Man, you're fickle!! Dumped Bonds for a younger man as soon as he came on the scene.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 2, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

As they say: "When she turns 40 turn her in for two 20s".

by wilriv21 on Nov 2, 2007 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions

come on

this is sharksrog you're talking about.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2007 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

I'm hoping it's either wild unfounded speculation or he really did confuse Lincecum with Lowry. You know, they're the same person...lefthanded, solidly built, lower velocity stuff...wait, no, they're both skinny goofy little doods who can throw 100 mph. Wait, what?

My brain has exploded twice in one day.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 2, 2007 12:41 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

They're young pitchers who were in the majors for most of this year and whose names start with the letter L and also have other consonants and also at least one vowel in them. I mean, it's really a mistake I make all the times.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 2, 2007 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

ARGH, seriously, the day they trade Tim Lincecum for any package less than Hanley Ramirez AND Miguel Cabrera is the day I stop being a fan. >:(

DON'T DO IT.

I know this is probably false facts, but now I'm worried. :(

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Nov 2, 2007 12:51 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

In the past week I've watched 'The Exorcist', 'Friday the 13th', & 'Halloween'. You know what I'm going to have a nightmare of tonight? This ** thread.

by ResDog on Nov 2, 2007 12:59 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giant's have made Lincecum available?

oh lord...this could be the offseason in which I become a non fan...:(

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 2, 2007 1:04 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

it's even scarier to think what Sabean might call a "quality bat"...

"Hey Doug, what would it take to get that Mench kid away from you guys? A young flamethrower?"...

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 2, 2007 1:23 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I'll echo the crowd - deal Lincecum for Sabean's version of a quality bat, and I complete the transaction to Red Sox fandom. Its just a lot easier when your 2nd team is run by functioning brains.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Nov 2, 2007 1:27 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I think confusing Tim with Noah is the most likely explanation.

by sharksrog on Nov 2, 2007 1:34 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

only if "quality" means "Pujolsian".

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick @ McCovey Chronicles on Nov 2, 2007 1:36 PM PDT reply actions

Umm . . .

I'll trade Lincecum.

For David Wright, Jose Reyes and Mike Pelfrey.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Nov 2, 2007 1:51 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Hey guys, new to the site (actually been lurking a long time, but since the offseason is here, I'll occasionally add a comment or two).

I left Ringolsby this comment below his story. Hope it straights that moron out.

<<<Ringolsby, you clown. It's Noah Lowry that can be had for a bat. GM Brian Sabean has repeatedly stated he's not trading Lincecum or Cain. Look at the BLEEP you've started. Dunn for Lincecum? Glaus or Overbay for Lincecum? Get your dang facts straight before you post this garbage>>>

LinceCain and pray for rain .... or for someone to take Zito off our hands.

by Lincecain on Nov 2, 2007 2:25 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

In fairness, Brian's last comment was that one wouldn't think the Giants would trade either pitcher. I would say he left the door ajar.

by sharksrog on Nov 2, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

That's ridiculous! A door can't be a jar!

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2007 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

maybe the door is literally a jar! wouldn't that be awesome!?

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 2, 2007 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

It should be ajar. For a team with soooooo many holes, Lincecum should be available for the right package. It would certainly have to be an overwhelming package with more than a "quality" bat though...

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 2, 2007 2:36 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Personally I think ANY player should be available for the right package. It's just that it would be difficult for a team to be willing to offer the right package for Tim Lincecum.

by sharksrog on Nov 3, 2007 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Wow, a piece of unsubstantiated internet gossip and people fall to pieces.

by satyricrash on Nov 2, 2007 2:40 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Everyone should be tradeable on this team. If someone offers an incredible package for Lincecum, at least listen. Any young pitcher with that much promise has a good chance of flaming out or getting hurt, anyway. So if we get offered a pair of prime All-Star bats for him, maybe it's the right thing to do.

by Skaldheim on Nov 2, 2007 3:22 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I think he meant that Lincecum could be had for a quality "team." I would take the Red Sox.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 2, 2007 4:09 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

no no no no no no no no no no no.

If they trade timmy i'm going to go all team fortress spy and take a barber's blade to a few management throats.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 2, 2007 5:32 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

quality bat = Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins with the Phillies paying all of their salaries and buying me 4 lifetime season tickets behind the Giants Dugout with free parking.

That's a trade I think I could possibly maybe support.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 2, 2007 9:07 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Don't forget about the bottomless garlic fries!

by sdsukat01 on Nov 2, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I'd do it for Longoria, Kazmir, and Delmon Young of the Rays... maybe.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Nov 2, 2007 9:54 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

no maybes involved, you would have to make that deal. Of course you COULDN'T make that deal, because I'm sure the Rays think that Kazmir alone is better than Lincecum.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 3, 2007 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Hmmmmm....pitchfork brigade.

:::cue up Rush's "Witch Hunt":::

...those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves...

NO player is un-tradeable, at least in the position this team is in. Being bad doesn't give you many options except doing what you can to get better. And if that means trading Cy Future, then so be it, but only for the right offer.

The Johnnie LeMaster fan club vice-president. E6 Forever!

by Van Smack on Nov 2, 2007 10:28 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

There was a time when Foppert had the same trade value Lincecum has now.

by mxmob33 on Nov 2, 2007 11:30 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

When was that? Before he pitched in the majors and showed the 97 mph fastball was a myth? Timmy is the real deal. Jesse was hype.

by Sayhey on Nov 3, 2007 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

It wasn't a myth. It wasn't hype. I saw Foppert pitch I think eight times in the minors in three different leagues. He very consistently hit 96-97 with his fastball although that wasn't his strikeout pitch. His best pitch was a 90-91 splitter. I sat by scouts, I looked at the guns, and I heard the sizzle and pop his pitches made.

It seems pretty clear that he hurt himself in ST in '03, probably trying to open eyes by overthrowing too soon.

People who dismiss Foppert as hype and myth generally are speaking out of some mis-informed jadedness and definitely didn't see him during his minor league career.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Nov 4, 2007 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I understand what you're saying. Baseball America had him as their top pitching prospect I believe. But Jesse's stock began to drop quickly, while Tim had a pretty decent first season.

I believe your statement is incorrect.

by sharksrog on Nov 3, 2007 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Not to mention the fact that Foppert DID throw 97mph. I saw those readings in that one exhibition game he pitched at ATT before the start of the season, although I admit that the ATT gun is usually hot. By the time he reached the majors I think his arm problems had already begun.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 4, 2007 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I would NEVER consider Lincecum for Cabrera.

The only names I wouldn't retch at would be Ryan Braun, Brandon Wood or Evan Longoria...and the latter two would probably have to come with something extra rather than straight up.

That said, by all means, Brian Sabean should LISTEN to every possible offer. Due diligence means something, in case a steal is offered. That doesn't mean he should drop Timmy for just anything, but definitely listen.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 3, 2007 1:50 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Why would you not consider the Marlins SS? For that matter why not consider the Brewers 1B as well as their 3B? And why not cosider the Astros or Tigers CFs? Surely you would consider the Mets 3B?

My reason for not considering Cabrera is that he is only 2 years away from free agency. All the others I have mentioned are at least 3 years and in most cases four years away from free agency.

by giantsrainman on Nov 3, 2007 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Cabrera comes with a long list of concerns starting with his contract and ending with his weight, and I would be extremely reluctant to make a trade for him with Lincecum unless we were getting another pretty piece in the puzzle, even if it meant we threw cash in to get it done.

Re: Fielder, I don't think it is necessarily an unwillingness to think Lincecum for Fielder would be a good trade for the Giants so much as it is reasonable to believe that such a trade is less likely to happen than a third degree sunburn saving you from getting cancer. I don't think it's remotely reasonable to believe that Prince Fielder would be available at any cost lower than all of the top talent in our system, including Lincecum. He's become the indisputable face of that franchise over the last two years, and is one of the single best hitters in the game today.

That's the extent of my opinion on these players right now.

Certainly Lincecum is not untradeable, but I think most of us are going to be extremely picky about the circumstances of the player we would "hope" to get in terms of talent, availability, age, position, injury history, and contract status.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2007 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Sabean should listen, sure, but I wouldn't have offered him up publicly like this. If other teams think Lincecum is being shopped, they're going to be less willing to "settle" for Lowry than they would have been if they knew going in that Lincecum was off the table.

After all would, you be satisfied to spending 50K on a Corvette if you thought the salesman would sell you a Carrera GT at the same price? Even if that salesman would never let his supercar go that cheaply, the fact that you think he might would make the Corvette less attractive.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Did Sabean say this publicly?

I thought this was nothing more than just a report out of Rotoworld from a writer that is known for being inaccurate in his articles.

But if Sabean DID say it publicly, I don't see anything wrong with it. Other GMs know Lincecum has incredibly high value and I doubt they'd lowball Sabean.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Nov 3, 2007 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Is Tracy Ringolsby known for being inaccurate?

According to the article, the Giants have "let it be known" that Lincecum is available. If true (and I don't see why the author would lie) then yes, it's essentially the same as Sabean stating it publicly.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Maybe he has Lincecum confused with Noah Lowry. It wouldn't be his sloppiest writing in the column. Ringolsby leads off his article with: "After giving up three of its top five pitching prospects in July of 2006 to acquire Livan Hernandez from Arizona ... Arizona finds itself searching for rotation help." Ignoring the obvious gaffe that they made the trade with themselves, the Diamondbacks actually gave up only two prospects and the deal was done in August. But other than that, he's nearly spot on. OK, back to Lincecum. He simply cannot be had for a quality bat. Maybe he'll be available in return for an exceptional bat. The only player we can think of that qualifies and might be available is Miguel Cabrera. -Rotoworld

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Nov 3, 2007 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I should have just said "look above."

wow, I'm out of it today.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by JT Jordan on Nov 3, 2007 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Could be a mistake, sure.

OTOH, does it matter? Perception trumps reality in this case. IMO, at least.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I think it would be a pretty extreme mistake. Tim Lincecum sounds, looks, pitches, walks, and talks nothing like Noah Lowry.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2007 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Perception for whom? Frankly our perception or the media's perception does not matter. Sabean can fix the perception with any GM by just telling him when he call to ask about Lincecum the Tim is only avialable if the offer is one Brian just can't refuse.

by giantsrainman on Nov 3, 2007 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

And the GM would still think "hmm, I heard about Lincecum earlier, maybe he'll change his mind if I sweat him a bit."

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Just why do you expect GMs to believe rumors? GMs more then anyone else know that the press just flat makes up more rumors then those that actually have any basis in reality.

by giantsrainman on Nov 3, 2007 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

People often believe what they want to believe. heh.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2007 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

First of all, "The Giants have let it be known," doesn't mean that Brian Sabean was involved in the proclamation at all.

Second, saying something in private that gets repeated publicly is hardly the same thing as stating it publicly.

by sharksrog on Nov 4, 2007 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

And OF COURSE teams would lowball for Lincecum,both because they always want to be on the winning side of a deal, and because Lincecum's value is simply so high that any GM would balk at paying the appropriate price. Do you really think the Brewers are offering up Braun, or the Indians Sizemore? Of course not, they're trying to put together packages centered on lesser talents.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

When asked, Sabean said that Cain and Lincecum were "probably unavailable," which would mean that he IS willing to listen. If he actually pulled the trigger on something for any of those two, it better be something substantial. I certainly wouldn't trade him for Cabrera, but there is a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing Miguel in the lineup no matter what the cost, and I would think as Miguel gets older and closer to FA status, he would get himself into better shape. I would try to get Miguel for Sanchez, Lowry, and whatever else they wanted not named Lincecum, Cain or Villalona.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 4, 2007 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I don't think the Giants have enough aside from Tim, Matt, Angel and the 2007 draftees to acquire Miguel, although possibly if the Giants made an Ollie Matson-type deal they could get it done.

Noah Lowry, Jonathan Sanchez, Brian Wilson, Nate Schierholtz, Kevin Frandsen, Kevin Correia, John Bowker, Emmanuel Burriss and Clayton Tanner for Miguel? Possibly the Marlins would consider it, but they would be taking a large gamble. And the Giants would have even fewer prospects.

by sharksrog on Nov 4, 2007 11:07 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Ollie Matson?? Are you 200 years old??

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 4, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

If nothing else, having Timmy out there somewhat gives Sabean a chance to see who thinks he's an idiot at the winter meetings. When Ned proposes Timmy for Furcal, Sabean can cross another name off the Christmas card list.

non illigitimi carborundum, excessum Sabeanus.

by Moderation on Nov 3, 2007 10:48 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

This shela is bloody crazy. Unless it was Lincecum for Cabrera, Ramirez, Uggla, Willis, and their young closer. I like Sabean, but knowing him he would grab Benitez back!

by Big Daddy J on Nov 3, 2007 2:06 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

cabrera for lincecum would be a huge mistake
cabrera is a great hitter but great pitching always beats great hitting

http://hardcoresfgiants.blogspot.com

by Frogger91w9 on Nov 3, 2007 2:55 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

Great pitching does NOT always beat good hitting, any more than good hitting always beats good pitching.

In actuality, sometimes good pitching wins out -- other times it is the good hitting.

If good pitching always beat good hitting, any good pitcher would never lose a game.

by sharksrog on Nov 3, 2007 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Giants have made Lincecum available?

I think it comes down to whatever you need the most. I think for a team like the Giants, who are loaded with young pitchers and no young hitting, they have to make pitching for hitting deals, regardless on whether good pitching is more important than good hitting.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 4, 2007 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

Cabrera is a great hitter. End of sentence. Lincecum is a good pitcher. He may be a great prospect, have great stuff, have great promise, have a great future but he is a good pitcher at the moment. Cabrera is a great hitter today and will continue to be a great hitter tomorrow.

by wilriv21 on Nov 3, 2007 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

There is some truth in this. But, the odds of Lincecum not reaching the potential of "Great Pitcher" are small. In additon, Cabrera is just 2 years away from Free Agency and already into the expensive part of Arbitration while Lincecum is two years away from Arbitration and 5 years away from Free Agency. We would need to get more the Cabrera for Lincecum we would need Willingham as well.

by giantsrainman on Nov 3, 2007 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

Actually, Lincecum is 6 years away form free agency. I forgot that he didn't log a full year this year.

by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2007 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

He will continue to be a great hitter tomorrow, but he'll also be a free agent great hitter tomorrow. Lincecum will be with the same team and paid well below market value.

Like I said in previous threads, Lincecum for Cabrera only works if the Giants have already worked out an extension with Cabrera.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Nov 3, 2007 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

He IS a great hitter. But, like other posters have said, his weight gain over the past couple of years is cause for more than a little concern and scares me away from really wanting him. I'm not saying being a little overweight is a problem, but if he can't stay away from the table (or has a lack of discipline in that area), the likelihood of injuries putting him on the DL is an issue to consider as he gets older.

On that issue, I wonder how much flak the Marlins have given him regarding his weight. Or, they could be saying, "Screw it, he's going to be gone anyway in a couple of years, so why alienate him at this point?"

The Johnnie LeMaster fan club vice-president. E6 Forever!

by Van Smack on Nov 4, 2007 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

It's not just the weight, it's the attitude. He has no work ethic whatsoever, and if you remember he was benched one game when the Giants played the Marlins for showing up late for the game. Supposedly his teammates are tired of his act. Tim Lincecum is the exact opposite. He's in great shape, is a good teammate and works hard to get better. Things like this HAVE to be taken into consideration. Cabrera is not just on the market right now because the Marlins don't want to spend the money.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 4, 2007 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Lincecum is good, Cabrera is great

Actually, Tim is already more than a good pitcher. His Fielding Independent Pitching was actually lower than Matt Cain's.

Tim's ERA was 4.00 (still good, but certainly not great) primarily because of some shoddy fielding behind him that resulted in earned runs scoring.

If you think Tim is only a good pitcher, you may not have been playing close attention. I would say he is very good -- although not yet great.

by sharksrog on Nov 4, 2007 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions

If ........

Lincecum = very good
Cabrera = HOF like

by wilriv21 on Nov 4, 2007 4:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: If ........

All Miguel has to do is keep playing as he has for another 10 years, and he would indeed be a Hall of Famer. He may have a reasonable shot at the career records for hits, doubles and RBI's.

Tim at his present level would NOT make the Hall of Fame. But then again, neither would Miguel at his level after his first season (.268/.325/.468/.793, which is Randy Winn-like). It should be noted, however, that Cabrera had just turned 20 when he debuted, while Lincecum was nearly 23. At age 21, Miguel began to approach Hall of Fame numbers at .294/.366/.512/.878, and at age 22 he improved to .323/.385/.561/.936. Miguel's best season came at 23 when he hit .339/.430/.568/.998.

Miguel is still just 24 years old, or 14 months older than Tim. Miguel does have fielding and weight issues, while Tim would appear to receive a high character rating. Tim should have four more low-priced seasons than Miguel.

On the other hand, pitchers are usually bigger health risks than hitters and of course are able to play only every fifth day as starters. These factors appear to me to be mitigated by Tim's fine mechanics, flexibility and strength of core, as well as his ability to pitch in relief between starts if necessary and a possible very long career indicated by his genes. Tim's dad Chris threw 88 mph at age 55.

If Tim fully learns to pitch, he could still be effective with an 88 mph fastball, particularly since his repertoire includes a knuckle ball as well as a couple of other pitches he doesn't use.

by sharksrog on Nov 5, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions