MDP

by Grant Brisbee on Oct 5, 2007 1:33 PM PDT in News

Voting for the Edgardo Alfonzo Award begins today. The EAA is awarded to the most disappointing Giants player of the season, and past winners include:

2006 - Randy Winn
2005 - Armando Benitez
2004 - A.J. Pierzynski
2003 - Edgardo Alfonzo
2002 - Rich Aurilia
2001 - Livan Hernandez

Some were able to reclaim some portion of their career; others were Edgardo Alfonzo and Armando Benitez. The candidates:

Rich Aurilia
Was supposed to be: The Swiss-Army knife of the roster. He was supposed to be able to play every infield position, hit for power, and be the lefty-mashing part of the first-base platoon.
What he was:A questionable defender everywhere but first, and his "lefty-mashing" was more of a "lefty-sensual-massaging." There were no happy endings.
Barry Zito
Was supposed to be: The ace. Seriously, though, he wasn't supposed to be terrible. An above-average starter with an ERA in the high-3.00s would have been nice.
What he was: An unwatchable disaster in the first-half, and solid pitcher in August and September.
Ray Durham
Was supposed to be: The clean...the clea...the cl...I can't write it. It's just too painful. The Giants entered the 2006 season with Ray Durham as the clean-u...the number fou.... if I don't type the words, maybe it never happened. It wasn't really realistic to expect him to be the 26-homer guy from 2006, but it was perfectly realistic to hope he could just be Ray Durham.
What he was: The worst everyday player in baseball, as he posted his first below-average offensive season in over a decade. And by "below-average offensive season", I mean "an offensive season you would expect from Kirk Rueter getting 450 at-bats with an 83 oz.-bat."

It seems like the answer is obvious, but I don't really want to taint the voting by revealing my pick to the ~~sycophants~~ masses.

Poll

Most Disappointing?

Rich Aurilia

2 votes

Barry Zito

58 votes

Ray Durham

151 votes

Other

6 votes

217 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 109 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Re: MDP

I like Ray Durham as a person.

He was disappointing this year as a baseball player.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Oct 5, 2007 1:32 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

its a tie between ray and barry (i was thinking too much about the money to be able to pitch) zito

by bacci40 on Oct 5, 2007 1:37 PM PDT reply actions

Barry Zito

Rich Aurilia was signed and told he might not have a set position.

Ray Durham had a horrible first half of 2006 and finished the year strong. There definitely were red flags to alert SF he might be good or he might be bad.

Barry Zito was signed to the richest deal for a pitcher in MLB history. He performed well below expectations and his contract will be an albatross for seasons to come.

by wilriv21 on Oct 5, 2007 1:38 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Barry Zito

Your definition of "finished the year strong" is not the same as mine, because mine doesn't include rocking an OPS of almost .450 in the last month of the season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5323/splits;_ylt=AhEDi3xXWFGBjTWSH9SsqeaFCLcF

Ray Durham was really really really really really awful this year.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Oct 5, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions

he meant '06. though actually, Durham didn't really have a horrible first half in 06, just a horrible April (.527). He ended up with an .816 first half OPS last year after OPSing .888 and .860 in May and June.

Saying there were red flags for this year based on his performance in 06 doesn't seem accurate to me, unless one bad month = red flag these days.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 5, 2007 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Barry Zito

Oh whoops, I thought he meant this year.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Oct 5, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

It has to be Ray. He had a 65 OPS+. SIXTY FIVE! I WISH I KNEW HOW TO INCREASE FONT SIZE SO I COULD EMPHASIZE THAT MORE!

He basically halved his production from last year. He had never had a season that bad in his entire career. He was flat out awful.

Zito wasn't great, about average. I don't know, I wasn't really expecting all that much more than that. I thought there was a chance he would be able to take the NL by surprise or something, but I certainly expected the possibility that Zito could just be average. His peripherals were certainly those of an average pitcher the last few years.

However, there was no way in a million years that I would have ever expected Ray Durham to have a 65 OPS+. If you'd told me that before the season started, I would have lolled at you heartily.

Therefore: Ray.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 5, 2007 1:42 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Zito, no question. Not just because of this year's performance, but for the long term implicatons for rebuilding the team.

by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 5, 2007 1:42 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

The rest of you are kidding, right? DrB is right; it's got to be Zito.

I was an anti-Zitonian from the get-go, but even I didn't think he'd be this bad. I at least expected mediocrity...overpaid, gilt-edged, totally superfluous mediocrity...but I didn't think he'd immediately fall into abject Rueterization until 2009 or 2010. Ouch.

I expected Durham to fall precipitously, although maybe not to the level indicated by the poster above. He certainly has no business being the cle cleanu ...sorry, I can't type straight through the tears of laughter.

Richie was exactly what I thought he'd be.

And so, the Albatross in a walk.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 6, 2007 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I thought Matt Cain was going to be pretty good, but I guess he's still too young. I mean, 6-17, that's terrible. Much worse than I expected.

by BigO on Oct 5, 2007 1:43 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Seriously, though, while Ray-Ray was awful, I'll go with Barry Z. His first half just kept feeling like a cruel, cruel, joke.

by BigO on Oct 5, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Oops...7-16. Feeling much less disappointed now.

by BigO on Oct 5, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Are you being serious?

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 5, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

nvm

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 5, 2007 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Cain's W-L record is disappointing, but he is largely not responsible for it. The team gave him very little support offensively, and that's is not his fault.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 5, 2007 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

ahhh...yeah: I'm kidding.

by BigO on Oct 5, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Oh , yes it is.

Cain could have/should have helped himself/the Giants with the bat... by grabbing one and doing a Marichal mambo on those other useless clowns.

With half the offensive offense hospitalized the Giants would have been forced to give ample playing time to our vaunted minor leaguers.

All is said and done , so... Let's Go Phillies!! (Kiss my heinie , Clint.)

by victor frankenstein on Oct 5, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I'm with Victor. I have to think that Cain would have had much more success if he had gone through the clubhouse shower with a baseball bat after his losses and started hitting guys in the nuts. A few of those, and guys start kind of focusing a little better when Cain's pitching. Therefore, Cain really is responsible for SO MANY losses attributable to crappy offense.

With the season over, I release my adoptee Brian Sabean. Good luck in the world, little buddy.

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 5, 2007 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray-Ray in a landslide.

Vote for Pedro...to be DFA'd!

by W8ingForATitle on Oct 5, 2007 1:45 PM PDT reply actions

The correct answer is Barry Zito

Yes, Durham's season was a lot worse. But look at it this way - Durham is only under contract for next year, and at not too bad a salary. Whereas Zito is owed octeen squajillion dollars a year until 3188 (salary details as always from MLB4U).

If Zito was this mediocre this year - no bounce from moving to the supposedly weaker NL, just further decline - just how bad is he going to be in a couple more centuries when the salary escalators kick in? That contract loooked like an albatross when it was signed, but now it looks like a... very big albatross with stink lines coming out of it? Yeah, I should leave the fancy analogies to Grant.

This isn't the LVP, people, it's the MDP. And Barry Zito's Salary:Performance is every bit as abysmal as his K:BB. Zito should be a shoo-in.

by Salemicus on Oct 5, 2007 1:46 PM PDT reply actions

Re: The correct answer is Barry Zito

Yeah, but I don't see why we should have attached unrealistic expectations to Zito just because of his contract. Most projection systems had him at a low to mid 4s ERA... and he ended up around that range (4.53). And a 98 ERA+ isn't that far off from his previous career low of 106.

Durham hadn't had a year under 100 since 1997 and he suddenly not only dips to below average production, but he gets all the way down to Neifi Perez territory.

I don't know, I can certainly see the argument for Zito (though it seems to be partially based around the idea that he has a big contract, therefore he should have been good, when I don't think anyone but the most biased of Giants fans ever really expected him to ever come close to living up to the contract) but I think there's a legitimate argument to be made for Durham as well. And I think, just looking at the 2007 season, Durham is easily the most disappointing player on the Giants.

...SIXTY-FIVE!

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 5, 2007 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: The correct answer is Barry Zito

Unrealistic money DEMANDS unrealistic expectations.

All is said and done , so... Let's Go Phillies!! (Kiss my heinie , Clint.)

by victor frankenstein on Oct 5, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Think of it this way,

Durham hit like Vizquel, but was poor defensively to boot.

Offensively and defensively, he was 35 runs below average, without positional adjustment, not much better than an AA player.

by rfloh on Oct 5, 2007 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Biggest disappointment on the team from my point of view: Ray Ray.
Biggest actual negative impact to the team now: Barry Zito. With the money he was making, we should have seen Jake Peavy or Brandon Webb Numbers or J. Santana. But he isnt as disappointing as Ray, because I knew there was no way in hell he would perform like an ACTUAL $20 million pitcher.

Sabean stop giving away our first round draft picks!!

by z4 landshark @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 5, 2007 1:47 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Biggest disappointment? Has to be RayRay. Zito stunk, but who didn't expect that? RayRay was so bad, I don't think ANYONE could have expected Ray to collapse like he did. That was a colossally bad season! Zito, despite his contract, pitched okay. The start was phenomenally bad but he had some good outings here and there, and he finished strong. Ray? Bad start, bad middle, bad finish. Bad bad bad. Did I mention he was incredibly bad?

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 5, 2007 1:55 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Gonna go with "the cool dude". My reasoning is, Ray = 35, what do you expect. Zito = 29, expected something better.

Honorary mention = 2005 Award Winner, Amrando Benitez.

by SnowLeopard on Oct 5, 2007 1:56 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

by Todd Linden on Oct 5, 2007 2:11 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

I went with Ray, just because he was asked to hold up so much of the offense behind Bonds. Zito pitched just slightly worse than I'd expected, honestly.

by rocketdog on Oct 5, 2007 2:14 PM PDT reply actions

Contract = expectations = Vote for Zito

Not only is Barry Zzzzzzito the pick, but he make a Bondsian MVP like run at the award over the next few years.

Durham was a one year 2nd base cozy to keep things warm while young Frandsen adjusted. Sure Ray hit like Charles, but he's gone long before we stop paying Zito twice as much.

"If you no help me right now Jobu, I say F-it, I do it myself." - Pedro Feliz

by CEO of the William VanLandingham FanClub on Oct 5, 2007 2:14 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Zito because I actually expected more from him going to the NL, whereas Ray Ray is injury prone so you can't put too much weight on him.

by Raskal on Oct 5, 2007 2:17 PM PDT reply actions

The Most Disappointing Person on the Giants

has been Brian Sabean. Wait, that's what MDP stands for right?

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 5, 2007 2:26 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

It's Durham without a doubt. However, I think he'll rebound next year back to his around .800 OPS levels...so I don't think we should make him ride the pine in lieu of Frandsen

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 5, 2007 2:32 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Let me ask you this: if Durham begins the season ice-cold, how long do you let him continue to start over K-Frand?

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 5, 2007 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

IMO you go Durham 2B and Franny at 3B (unless a quality 3B situation presents itself). Then you trade Durham if he does well and if he continue to suck in June, then you just DFA him. It's not like he has any trade value now anyway.

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 5, 2007 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Interesting question, but I disagree with your premise. You start the year with Kevin at 2B and Ray is the pinch-hitter deluxe, imho.

Then, the question is: if Kevin starts the year ice-cold, how long do you let him continue to start over Durham? The correct answer, of course, is "all season."

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 6, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

But the Sabean/Bochy answer is "four days."

My World Series prediction: Pain (Boston over Philly in 6). Rajai is still fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 7, 2007 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Frandsen on April 1, Durham in there by April 4

Bochy/Sabean prefigure that rainouts, paid holidays and leap year count toward the four days.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Why isn't Bonds an option? From what I've read, Bonds is the reason this team was no good. In fact, the team even scored more runs when he was out of the lineup!!1! And this from our "supposed" best player. How good can he be if he doesn't will our team to a World Series Championship?

Seriously, I voted Zito, for they same reasons as Dr. B. Ray Ray was terrible, unfathomably so, but that just doesn't really mean much in the big picture. Zito wasn't expected to be great, but he wasn't expected to be this bad, this soon, after coming over from the tougher league. Just horrible and the team will be operating with one arm tied behind its back for 7 more years.

Adoptive father of David Quinowski: Fuck it, dude, let's go bowling

by marcello on Oct 5, 2007 2:40 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Zito, no question about it - but only in relation to pre-season expectations. I never bought Durham as a cleanup hitter, nor is it really that surprising that he struggled. Sure, he had the WORSE year of the three, but Zito promised so much more. I still think the Zito deal was a good one and expect something more like 15-10, 3.60 ERA next year.

by ChampSummers4ever on Oct 5, 2007 2:54 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Durham in a laugher.

Omar's offense was a bit disappointing, too, but I suppose you could see that coming.

I was also really disappointed that Brian Wilson was in the minors for the bulk of the year as he pitched horribly in spring training. That wasn't expected. He did pitch well after he got the late call-up, though.

Bruce Bochy - after the Giants were clearly out of it, he kept putting out those Jurassic lineups (Durham, in particular!) out there everyday instead of playing the kids more.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 5, 2007 2:55 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

I say Durham because I expected greater thigns from my boy. That homer against the Dodgers was awesome though.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Oct 5, 2007 3:08 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

I don't know about Greater Thigns, but the Greater Thighs award goes to Walker.

In a walk.

A chunky, chafing, inner-thigh-irritating walk.

by Moggeee on Oct 6, 2007 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

all of them

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Oct 5, 2007 3:16 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

No mention of Timmah? Am I the only one that expected 35 wins?

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 5, 2007 3:24 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

You're not alone. And did you notice how he sometimes let runners on base? WTF?!?1?!1/?1

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 5, 2007 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I don't understand the reasoning in voting for any of the players really.

To say that you didn't see the drop-off coming for Durham, Roberts, Aurelia, Klesko is just idiotic. These dudes were assembled by our fearless leader and WE KNEW they would be nothing more than scabs...fill-ins...and warm bodies. Just holding down the position until those shitloads of prospects we've got are ready for the majors. Hahahaha...ya right.

As for Zito, well he's historically a slow starter, and WE KNEW he wasn't worth that kind of coin from the moment he put the pen to paper. Hopefully, he'll pull his head out of his arse earlier next season.

I can't vote for Feliz either...he stopped swinging at that crap off the plate, but still can't go the opposite way and I wouldn't dare classify him as a "Professional Hitter". He can only hit mistakes, and that's no good in my book. His glove saves him here, but just barely.

I'm also not voting for Omar because he's my son and I don't have to if I don't want to.

We didn't have failures like Hillenbrand, Finley, or Vizcaino to point at and laugh this year.

My boys Benitez and Morriz got their asses shipped out of town, so I can't vote for them either.

That being said, I'd like to cast my vote for (drumroll please) Peter Mac and Lord Larry. Resigning Sabean is possibly one of the most stupid decisions I've ever seen and I hope it blows up in their face. Let Brian run the club into the ground for all I care, because with Barry gone, and plenty of money freed up, he doesn't have any excuses left.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 5, 2007 3:52 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

To say that I didn't see Ray Durham - he of 10 straight years of 100+ OPS+, coming off his best year ever, career low OPS+ of 82 in his rookie year in 1995 - suddenly hitting .218/.295/.343/65 OPS+ is idiotic?

Okay.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 5, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ok...maybe idiotic is a bit harsh. But he was a prime suspect for falling off a cliff. Only recently has he been healthy, and there isn't many teams other than ours where he could hit #3 or #4. He's a great guy...I love him...but he's not a legitimate RBI/HR threat/protect Barry kinda guy. He just isn't.

BTW...How's England? I'm sporting a new 3 lions shirt right now.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 5, 2007 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Yeah, but to fall off to Neifi Perez levels? I'm sure everyone expected him to come down from last year, but that much?

England is awesome! I'm a dork, so I'm geeking out over having two free and awesome museums like... no more than a fifteen minute walk away from my hall. It's \o/.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 5, 2007 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I wrote something like this and it accidentally got deleted. Anyway, pbb, yes. You win teh internetz!

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."!

by GameSix on Oct 6, 2007 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Gotta be "Double Play" Ray.

No further justification necessary.

Ben Copeland, because face it, Who was left to adopt ?

by nvsfg on Oct 5, 2007 3:54 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

People voting for Zito seemed mostly pissed about the contract. Being disappointed in Zito because of the contract is like blaming the troops for the war in Iraq.

Blame Peter, Brian and George.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics." -Barack Obama, 10/2/2002

by Goofus on Oct 5, 2007 4:33 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Goofus, seeking answers and light, invokes the names of new age Apostles.

But forgets to mention Ringo.

by Moggeee on Oct 6, 2007 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Durham will win the popular vote by a wide margin with Zito in a strong second place.

However, how can it be anyone other than Brian Sabean? He was the one that put together this team that has given a new meaning to the word "suck." He was the one that signed these asshats Zito, Aurilia, Roberts, Durham, Molina & Winn to awful long term contracts. He is the one that keeps re-signing Peter Happy. He is the one that has decimated our minor league system, leaving it devoid of any legimitate position prospects. He is the one that continues to rely on people like Dick Tidrow & Jack Hiatt. Need I go on? I think you get the point. The winner should be Sabean........there really isn't anyone as deserving as him.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Oct 5, 2007 4:49 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

You're right in so many ways...but remember we gave him an extension after he did all of that you mention.

Therefore I'm putting my blame on those that gave Sabes an extension. He can't help that he's out of touch and f'ing stupid...It's just his nature.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 5, 2007 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

He is an idiot most of the time, yeah, but that doesn't make him disappointing. For "disappointment" to occur, there has to be high hopes for that thing/person. I doubt there's a person in here that had high hopes for what Sabean would do.

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 5, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

In Sabean's defense, it is believed Magowan was the force behind the Zito contract, and it is also Magowan who has saddled Sabean with the surround Barry Bonds with the veterans philosophy. Remember that year when the Giants intentionally forfeited their number one pick by signing Michael Tucker early?? Do you think Sabean didn't want number one picks, or do you think he had a limit on how much money he can spend?? I think Magowan has interfered greatly with Sabean's running of the team the last few years, and I think Magowan recognized this, and that is why Sabean received an extension despite the lack of success of the last three years. I've read several times that Sabean wanted to rebuild this past season and the owners didn't want him to. I think this new contract was given to him because he will finally be left alone to make moves that he sees fit. If he now fails, he will be fired and rightly so. By the way, Brian Sabean is one of the most highly respected GM's in the game by his peers. Reading this board you would think he's mentally ill.

Randy Messenger: "Remember when my ERA was under 2.00??"

by rxmeister on Oct 5, 2007 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Were the 2001 and 2002 awards given retroactively or did we know Edgardo was going to be a disaster even before we signed him?

My World Series prediction: Pain (Boston over Philly in 6). Rajai is still fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 5, 2007 5:35 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

It was pretty predictable that Alfonzo was not going to be worth the kind of money that Sabean threw at him, especially since he was coming off of 2 years of back injuries.

And just think, that boatload of money could've been given to Vlad instead..........Sabean, what an unadulterated asshole.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Oct 5, 2007 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

This is factually incorrect. It was the 2002/3 Offseason in which Alfonzo was signed while Vlad was not a free agent until the 2003/4 Offseason.

What prevented us from signing Vlad was the "crazy thinking" that we needed to spread the money around on AJ, JT, Neifi, Grissom, Tucker, Tomko, and Hermanson.

Frankly, it is this same "crazy thinking" that is leading many of you to not what to persue signing A-Rod in this upcoming offseason.

by giantsrainman on Oct 5, 2007 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Good point, but Vlad would have given us a Barry/Vlad power duo. ARod would be all by his lonesome.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics." -Barack Obama, 10/2/2002

by Goofus on Oct 6, 2007 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

No, no, no...A-Rod will have Mike f'ing Lowell backing him up.

Hahahha...that's a laugher.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 6, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 6, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I don't know, Boozer....there's something that just looks right about ARod in that uni.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 6, 2007 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

It's that endearing, crooked tilt in his hat, and the way he wears a metro fitted jersey as opposed to a comfy loose one.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 6, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

It was pretty predictable that Alfonzo was not going to be worth the kind of money that Sabean threw at him, especially since he was coming off of 2 years of back injuries.

And just think, that boatload of money could've been given to Vlad instead..........Sabean, what an unadulterated asshole.

There's a lot of irony here. One of the reasons teams shied away from Vlad was Vlad's back problems. It worked out for the Angels; it didn't work out for the Giants.

Alfonzo was exactly the kind of free agent the Giants needed -- a young, productive corner infielder. He just didn't stay productive. And it wasn't his back; at least, his back was never mentioned as the main reason for his suckitude.

by Grant Brisbee on Oct 6, 2007 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions

The thing with Vlad's back problems

is that he came back from the injury and hit like mad.

Also, he herniated a cervical disc. It isn't as if he had a long-standing history of back problems.

by rfloh on Oct 6, 2007 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray. He came off a career year and absolutely tanked.

I wanted to vote Zito but I don't mind him on the team. He's a nice a compliment to the big two. What I do mind is his contract and Ownership fooling themselves into believing he was ever going to be the new face of the franchise or be an Ace here. What a waste of money.

Adopted Giant: Randy Winn. Can't wait for Zito to start Opening Day '08 so I can get a leg up on my drinking.

by Punch Rockgroin on Oct 5, 2007 5:53 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

With so many disappointments it's truly sickening that it has to be Ray in a landslide. Zito pitching to my expectations would not have resulted in as many extra wins as Ray playing to them. And Ray playing to my expectations would undoubtedly have saved Matt Cain some undeserved losses. That cinches it for me.

by NearestNorwich on Oct 5, 2007 6:53 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Sadly, Zito did pitch to my expectations.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Oct 5, 2007 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Beat me to it

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 5, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Beat me, and Beat Zito while you're at it

I'm a Giants fan, and I'm having my daily surge of sado-masochism.

by Moggeee on Oct 6, 2007 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

There's no question Durham is the "winner" here. It's my understanding that this award is given on a yearly basis, so as to who had the most disappointing year, it's Durham. Complain all you want about Zito's contract. I'm looking at results, not paychecks. After Ray's power surge last year, it was looking like he could be a middle of the order hitter. His drop off this year was way bigger than Zito's. Zito even began to show signs of life toward the end of the season.

The silver lining, if you really want to look for it, is that 2008 is another contract year for Ray.

"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Oct 5, 2007 7:12 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Barry Zito had a poor year, but he was still a decent starting pitcher. Ray Durham was one of the worst players in the entire major leagues. This award goes to him in a landslide.

Randy Messenger: "Remember when my ERA was under 2.00??"

by rxmeister on Oct 5, 2007 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

No, it's clear that Ray had a worse year than BarryZ. No question. But that doesn't make him a bigger disappointment. And it's not the money, per se, that cinches it for Zito. It's the expectations that surrounded the announcement of his signing. Even if he had signed for HALF of what he got, he was still THE free agent signing of the winter, and THE guy that management was pinning their hopes on. Although I, personally, thought he was a pitcher who had been declining for at least two years and wasn't likely to regain his early form, even so the expectations for him were very high. So although his numbers were slightly better than RayRay's, he missed the mark (hamartia in biblical Greek) by a wider margin that Durham did.

Of course, it may be that you were expecting much more of Durham than some of us were.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 6, 2007 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I have to disagree with you here. Whose expectations were raised?? Peter Magowan's?? Did you think the Zito signing won the pennant for the Giants?? Most of this board certainly didn't. As somebody else previously said, Zito pretty much did what was expected. If you pay a guy 120 million dollars it doesn't make him a 120 million dollar player. Everyone not named Peter Magowan seems to know that. Barry Zito was at least a major league performer this season. If Ray Durham wasn't signed for 2008 at 8 million dollars, he would have been released.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 7, 2007 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray Ray. I like the guy, but wow... By the end of the season I would rather have had Feliz bat with RISP than Durham, and that says a whole damn lot.

Next year will be an interesting battle between Ray and Frandsen to see who can suck the most at 2B.

Merkin Valdez career SO/9: 10.8

by Poe on Oct 5, 2007 8:29 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

I'll go along with the premise and cast my vote for Durham. Durham's bat in 2007 was where offense went to die.

But if we're talking the keenest, most bitter disappointment, nothing for me even comes remotely near the disappointment of July 13, and the extension of Sabean's contract. That was rip-your-heart-out-of-your-chest-and-stop-it-into-the infield-dirt disappointment.

by tobias on Oct 6, 2007 12:34 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

stomp

by tobias on Oct 6, 2007 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray Durham gets the vote, but I completely support the Sabean bashing. And Magowan deserves bashing for extending Sabean.

I also was disappointed with Bochy's work with the team. Seriously. I expected a mediocre, average, vanilla style of manager. Instead we got stupidity, cronyism, and an obsession with lefty-righty match ups. Only thing Bochy did right was not burn out the young pitchers arms.

Defender of Noah Lowry.

by Kid Fresh on Oct 6, 2007 4:28 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Why would Pierzynski win that award? Didn't he lead all NL catchers in RBIs? I know he was a clubhouse cancer and he also led the NL in GIDP, but still, I don't think it's disappointing when a guy leads his position in RBIs in the whole Senior Circuit.

If Brad Hennesy had Steve Kline's attitude you'd get Rob Nen... without the triple digit heat.

by milesntrane on Oct 6, 2007 6:06 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

AJ Pierzynski wasn't disappointing because he had lots of RBI?

They traded Francisco Liriano, Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser for him, he was supposed to be the big bat acquisition and our new long-term catcher and he rewarded us with an 85 OPS+, 27 GIDPs, the aforementioned horrible attitude and a non-tender at the end of the year.

I don't know about you, but lots of RBI or not, that's pretty much the definition of disappointing.

(Not to mention, I think the majority of people on here don't really care all that much about RBI.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 6, 2007 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Getting a lot of RBI batting behind Barry is not so impressive an accomplishment. Ray Ray had 60 batting-other-folks-in this year on 159 TB, which is a pretty insane .377 ratio. (In contrast, 2000-2007, Barry himself has driven in 380 other guys on 2078 TB, a .183 ratio, cuz (1) they walk him so often with men on base and (2) he's had a lot of shitty low-OBP hitters in front of him).

by SnowLeopard on Oct 6, 2007 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

If Barry over 2000-2007 had had Durham's 2007 ratio of .377 other-guys-batted-in per TB, then Barry would have averaged 176 RBIs per 650 PAs. But not everyone gets to bat behind guys with a .480 OBP ...

by SnowLeopard on Oct 6, 2007 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Pierzynski, 2004 : 66 batting-other-guys-in on 193 TB, a .342 ratio, while batting behind Bonds' .609 OBP. If Barry had had a .342 ratio over 2000-2007, he would have averaged 164 RBI/650 PAs.

by SnowLeopard on Oct 6, 2007 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Bonds' .609 OBP

lolololololol

This does not get enough love. I mean honestly, a .609 OBP.

.609
.609
.609

lol

by awesomer @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 7, 2007 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Bonds' .609 OBP

I have no idea what any of you guys just said.

If Brad Hennesy had Steve Kline's attitude you'd get Rob Nen... without the triple digit heat.

by milesntrane on Oct 7, 2007 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Bonds' .609 OBP

Yeah. Word up on the .609 OBP tip. Frikkin sick.

by SnowLeopard on Oct 7, 2007 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray Durham, a little ahead of Zito.

But I must also mention Bruce Bochy. He was very disappointing to me. Mostly because I was expecting, you know, a good manager.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 6, 2007 10:54 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Ditto, pretty much.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 6, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I read an interview with Manny Acta today and I am so, so, so very disappointed that we didn't go that route. He sounds like a really smart guy and he's obviously a pretty good manager, judging by how much the Nats outperformed expectations this year.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 6, 2007 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Ah, but Manny Acta would have been an unknown. Bochy, like Alou, were veteran managers with good reputations. And one thing we know with this organization. They so prefer the known entity to the unknown. Even if the known entity is known to be mediocre or worse.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 6, 2007 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Manny Acta would have been a bad choice for a veteran laden team and that was what the Giants would have presented him with. He's the perfect choice for next year's rebuild though. It's been said in New York if he wasn't tied up with the Nats, Willie Randolph would have been fired and Acta would have gotten the job. The Giants should be out there looking right now for someone similar to Acta, but they will stick with Bochy, who might be the worst choice to lead a rebuild.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 7, 2007 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Really? You think a rookie manager is a bad choice with a veteran laden team? Don't most teams have mostly veterans? Weren't the 93 Giants a veteran laden team? Maybe you had a different context in mind, but I don't see why a rookie manager can't manage a team with a lot of veterans.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 7, 2007 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

If the veterans were all Rich Aurilia types he would have been fine. I would cringe at the thought of a young rookie manager dealing with someone like Barry Bonds, not only for Barry's personality, but the media crush that Barry brings. I think it would have also been hard for Acta to deal with the fading veterans like Durham and Klesko and start benching them and phasing in the younger players. I'm not saying he wouldn't have done it, but I could see the veterans being very unhappy about the possible way it was handled, and mouthing off in the media. I think the Giants made the right decision in hiring Bochy to lead them last year, but now that they are moving in a different direction, they should be doing the same with the manager.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 8, 2007 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Okay, you meant this specific team with this specific set of circumstances. Got it.

But it's kind of hard to predict how the season will go. Prior to the season, the only reason why a rookie might not have been a good choice was Barry and his "special" ways. Maybe that was a good enough reason, though...

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 8, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Dunno--I see Benetiz as the going-away winner. After him, though, Captain Quirk. No contest.

"I'd rather be in a prison cell with Mike Tyson, and let him beat my butt all day long, than go through that again." - John Kruk, on the last place '92 season.

by getnby on Oct 6, 2007 12:09 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

MDP 07 - Ray Ray. Worst position player in the league, still put out there nightly in the 3 or 4 spot. grrr... Zito would need to be converted to Closer and BS every game to meet that level for me. Or Rueter himself out of the major leagues. Zito will probably still pitch all next year. maybe around 96, or 108 or 92. But if Durham doesn't hum in at around 100 OPS+ right of the bet that guy is so DFAed.

I want to Honorable mention Blownitez. He had the award wrapped up the first half the season. Outstanding performance - Balk balk balk.

by kennv on Oct 6, 2007 12:11 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Zito sucked once every five games. Durham sucked five out of five games. Durham FTW.

by Lipssan1 on Oct 6, 2007 5:47 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Ray Durham for sure. Zito a lot of people knew wasn't going to be as good as the media made him out to be and Aurilia didn't have particularly high expectations but Durham's complete meltdown was entirely unexpected.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on Oct 6, 2007 9:07 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Who was the most surprised by his crappy year? Ray himself, nosed out in a photo with...me.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

I'll say Todd Linden.

I wasn't surprised that he failed, but I was very, very disappointed.

Zito only pitches a little worse than I expected. Durham isn't really part of the team's long-term plans, so I wasn't that miffed at his poor performance. Linden, OTOH, was the team's best hope at producing a hitter with both patience and power (except, perhaps, EME, another tremendous disappointment).

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Oct 6, 2007 9:45 PM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Im gonna go with Peter Magowan for extending the douche that got us into the Enzyte era of SF baseball.

by shefdad on Oct 7, 2007 1:36 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Nice call.

I was going to float Sabean's blimpy name out there one more time, but the old gasbag stops here, and Magowan has tethered him securely (through 2009) to an outfield stanchion.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

The $126 million tempts me to vote Zito, but then again, you have to remember that he was pitching in the NL for the first time and learning all the hitters. I know that's not a great excuse for all the location problems, but the guy isn't even 30 yet. He still has time to mature and I'm confident Rags can get him there. Plus, I gotta remember that there were games in the second half, and even a few in the first, in which he was outstanding. He was just really streaky or schizophrenic or whatever you wanna call it.

The winner should go to 2 people: Durham and Sabean. Durham sucked beyond all expectations. It was almost impressive. But Sabean was the idiot who gave him 14 over 2 when he had a much better and younger second baseman making just over the league minimum in Frandsen. In know hindsight is 20/20 but this was a Sabean move that ranks up there with the Nathan/Liriano trade.

The 2008 Giants: Think 2005 Rockies with a payroll twice as big and half as much talent.

by BCsteve on Oct 7, 2007 9:33 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Durham. He was out-slugged by Pedro, and out-OBA'd by Bengie. Sheesh!

by MarkO on Oct 7, 2007 10:33 AM PDT reply actions

Re: MDP

Inject the juice into "Sheesh" and I think you have found the word you are looking for.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: MDP

Shethejuiceesh?

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 8, 2007 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Retract comments re Durham - worst everyday player

As a Twins fan I have to ask that you retract your comments regarding Durham as the worst everyday player in the majors.

Nick Punto posted a .562 OPS and 25 RBI's (had a great september to get that high) in 536 PA's. No Twins fan can explain how he got his name into the lineup that much. Management is sticking to the 'he plays great defense' excuse.

But you're right Durham was terrible.

by kab21 on Oct 8, 2007 9:11 AM PDT reply actions