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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Quickly....

by Grant Brisbee on Oct 4, 2007 2:49 PM PDT in News

Henry Schulman said in a recent podcast that the Giants were thinking more about 2009 than next season, especially with regards to offseason trades. Trying to build a foundation over two years makes a lot more sense than a mad shopping spree in a weak free agent market. Because it makes sense, I'm suspicious that the Giants would try it.

Obviously the Giants just can't come out and say they're punting next season. So now I'm wondering if they're quite aware a magic bean doesn't exist for the offense, and all of the "it was the bullpen's fault!!!" and "speed and defense"-hooey is being thrown to the media because it sounds much better to season-ticket holders than "are you kidding? There isn't any power on the free agent market, there isn't any power to trade for...we're screwed, boys and girls."

Comment starter: Do the Giants really think they're a just a couple of Wheat Thins short of a snack platter, or is the super-secret goal a two- or three-year plan?

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Comments

Re: Quickly....

If they're actually being serious about improving for 2009 and beyond, I'm thrilled. I won't hold my breath, though.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 4, 2007 2:47 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Ditto, except I feel like I really have no worthwhile read on what they might have in mind. Between parsing through the contradictory political rhetoric, reading between the contradictory lines, and evaluating the past against a contradictory future... I just have no idea what they might honestly be thinking.

Not even a teeny tiny one.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

You're right. I don't think anyone knows what management is doing yet. I don't even think management knows what they are doing yet. I do enjoy these discussions but to be honest, I'm sort of burned out on this subject. I'm waiting until at least the Winter Meetings when some stuff could go down, then I'll dedicate my usual brainpower to it.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 4, 2007 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

" I don't think anyone knows what management is doing yet. I don't even think management knows what they are doing yet."

One thing is crystal clear and it has been very well proven in the past............management clearly does not know what it is doing.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Oct 4, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

"Do the Giants really think they're a just a couple of Wheat Thins short of a snack platter, or is the super-secret goal a two- or three-year plan?"

Yes.

My work here is done.

World Series prediction: Cleveland over Chicago in six games. (I guess I'm still Klesko's adoptive pop; they gypsies weren't interested.)

by Goofus on Oct 4, 2007 2:50 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Man, now I'm hungry. Where is this snack platter and how can I cut in line?

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 2:50 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Signed,

Tyler Walker

(since we can't make fun of Benitez anymore)

by zenbitz on Oct 4, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

so if you are writing off 2008, why kick Bonds to the curb?

I can think of several reasons, they all either imply:

management is morons
management is complete bastards

by zenbitz on Oct 4, 2007 2:51 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Because they need to evaluate their young OFs and get them enough at-bats in '08 so they know what they have for '09. Bonds won't be here in '09 so why sign him for '08?

This is why anyone who is clamoring for the Giants to sign Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter should stfu.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Because they need to evaluate their young OFs

What is the minor leagues for? What was August and September 2007 for? What is the winter league for?

SF already knows what they have in their OFs.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Evaluation

I think the preliminary evaluation on Schierholtz, Lewis and Davis is that they should get a longer look next season. Frandsen and Ortmeier too but they are infielders.

by DrBGiantsfan on Oct 4, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Evaluation

I believe Sabean wants them to play winter ball to further evaluate their talents. For those players that do have a successful winter league they will get a longer look. If they do not succeed I would think that this would confirm his thoughts (he has yet to give glowing reports on the kids) and he will acquire another OF this winter.

Frandsen has been successful throughout his minor league career. He performed admirably during his 2007 season in SF. Believe Sabean is going to give him every opportunity to win the 2b job in 2008.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I don't believe anybody "knows" what we've got in those OFs. Informed guesses is all that's available as of yet.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Oct 4, 2007 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

"We've" as in SF organization or as in McCoven, or as in BA?

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

"we've" as in Giants-dom and all who hold them dearly. "anybody" as in "anybody." It's impossible to make a definitive statement as to what all of their future's hold.

By the way, you're statement regarding Holliday and McClain etc. below is rather silly. Holliday was a major league starter by the time he was 24 (and doing very well, too). His minor league stats were earth shattering but there were positives in them (he always had a pretty decent secondary average). It's not like he was some minor league journeyman. I'd say his stats compared in some ways favorably to Nate Schierholtz (and significantly better than Ortmeier's, especially at the higher levels).

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Oct 4, 2007 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Re-read the statement. You will see that Holliday is in one sentence and saying we have no one to compare to him. The others are lumped together to comment about the logic of giving a player a season to determine whehter he is ML ready.

Most if not all organizational and BA reports (and until recently McCoven) said SF had no position player of ML ready status with the exception of Schierholtz. Now, it seems, many want to field a team of home grown players. This does not seem to make sense to me.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think I said at the beginning of the year I'd be surprised if we had three position players in the minors who'd ever be above-replacement level major leaguers. It's just a measure of how tired fans have become of this regime's SOP. But yeah, "for god's sake play the kids" can easily turn into "for god's sake bring in some real major league free agents" after two years of watching the kids play. That said, there is a distinct difference between giving a 24-year old a chance to show he can play in the majors and giving a 35-year old that same chance, and I think "silly" is a decent enough adjective for describing that difference.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Oct 4, 2007 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

You think that's silly?
You should see the outfits he wears.
Elton's green with envy.

All is said and done , so... Let's Go Phillies!! (Kiss my heinie , Clint.)

by victor frankenstein on Oct 4, 2007 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Would you have guessed that Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla would be the hitters they are at the MLB level from their minor league stats? It takes a lot longer to evaluate baseball players at the highest level than two months. Give them a season and see how they respond.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Who do you think will be our Holliday? With that logic McClain, Figueroa, DelaRosa, Munter, Begg and all the others should earn a year in the bigs to see how they will respond. Now playing 1b for our SF Giants Travis Ishikawa!!!!!

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I think Ort, Schierholz, Lewis and Davis all deserve a year of 400 ABs. Your right that my logic is flawed, but I would rather give these kids a shot than sign overpriced OFs. If the Giants can get better options in the OF than they should do it as long as the players are in the early to mid 20s. No 30+ players.

What do you suggest the Giants do in the OF/1B?

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

What do you suggest the Giants do in the OF/1B?

Would suggest SF (attempt) to trade either Dave Roberts or Randy Winn. Both are signed for two more seasons. Would hope to receive an infielder or pitcher in return. I would like Sabean to inquire into the cost of Andruw Jones. Would go no higher than 6yr/$96M. Jones will be 31 next season and still young enough for the entire turnaround of this franchise.

Other targets could be Kotchman, heard KC may take offers on Teahen, same for Toronto on Adam Lind. Sabean has said he sees 6 possible trade partners where a team could use some pitching and has positional players. My guess the 6 could be?:

Atlanta
Tampa
Texas
Reds
Mariners
Kansas City

Possibly there is a trading partner among these teams that could return valuable talent to SF?

Basically what I am saying there is no need to give up on the 2008 season as long as the transaction is for the long term success of SF.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Are you worried that A. Jones will continue to decline?

I agree, I think Sabean needs to really go for it in the trade market and I would be really interested in what the Braves would offer for any combo of Lowry/Hennessey/Sanchez/Misch.

I'm not saying the Giants should stand pat with what they have and give up on '08. But I would rather see an OF with our young talent or young talent acquired in trades than an OF including an expensive FA like Jones.

I don't think this is the year to be spending a lot of money in the FA market b/c you won't get fair return on your investment. The '09 class looks much more promising and maybe that is what the Giants mean by looking toward '09.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Regarding Andruw Jones - Yes and No. I worry about all 30 yr old plus players beginning a decline. My sister and brother-in-law are Atlanta Braves season tix holders and he tells me Jones may have lost 1/2 step but he still is an excellent fielder. He believes the hyperextended elbow (along with unsettled contract status) caused a subpar 2007 season. If we could buy low (I do consider 6/96 a fair price) on a still young Jones then it would be worth the risk. His power numbers would continue in SF. The 09 class may look good now but there is plenty of time for those teams to re-sign them. I'm sure the FA market will look much different when that time comes.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

If Boras wasn't his agent I might be a little more on board with this, but whoever signs him will probably end up overpaying. We are so spoiled with Bonds peaking after the age of 35, I see players starting to decline at an earlier age now with the bans on amphetamines and PEDs. Jones losing a 1/2 step at age 31 is a bad omen for me.

Your right that the '09 class will look much different a year from now, but since I can't predict the future I can only say that it looks better right now.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Not only that, but there will be more current salaries coming off the books by 2009. If I've got my facts straight, both Durham and Winn will be off the books.

World Series prediction: Cleveland over Chicago in six games. (I guess I'm still Klesko's adoptive pop; they gypsies weren't interested.)

by Goofus on Oct 4, 2007 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Winn is signed through 2009.

Steve Kline: Pretty okay, but only on a whole season basis and not based on what he's doing now.

by groug on Oct 4, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

The reason why they should be in the majors getting significant playing time next year is because I really couldn't care less what they did in the minors (that's an exaggeration, by the way). It's what they can do in the majors that I want to know. We know they each have certain skills that they have shown (Lewis - OBP, Schierholtz - Avg./gap and developing power, Ortmeier - power potential, etc.) in the minors. I want to know whether they can sustain and/or improve those skills in the majors. And since we aren't likely to be good anyway, we might as well give them that opportunity.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 4, 2007 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

If the minors is all that's necessary to determine how good a hitter is, then why are there all those prospects who struggle up here after dominating the minors? Kouzmanoff, for example, should have been a slam dunk. Alex Gordone shouldn't have struggle for so long. Delmon Young would be a power hitter from the get-go, instead of having people say it'll show up eventually.

Or are you still hung up on Todd Linden and his 30 HR in 300 AB season?

The majors is the elite level of pitching talent, the pitcher you face everyday there, you maybe face once or twice a week at the AAA level.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 5, 2007 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

And what is wrong with Kouzmanoff?

You need to look at his month by month splits.

His OPS+ this season is 107. No, not great, but hardly something you regret either. Furthermore, Kouzmanoff struggled immensely in April: 113-171-183 354 OPS, 146 BABIP. Since then, he has been perfectly fine.

by rfloh on Oct 5, 2007 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Why are there hitters who have 1 good year in the majors then disappear forever?

by zenbitz on Oct 8, 2007 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

OK - Let's say this is true; they really need to leave those 472 PAs (Bonds' numbers out of 2189, including Ortmeier at 1B) to the young guns.

Why not leave your options with Bonds open until you see if you can't move Winn and/or Roberts?

Bonds is exactly the one signing who will not hurt you for 2009+ because he'll retire!

Writing off 2008 completely is stupid. I don't have high hopes for playoff glory, but the team isn't that bad. 450 PAs of a 44 y.o. Barry greatly increases their chances of lucking into a spot...

I also don't understand the arguments (below?) that just because they sucked in the minors and were good in short duty in the majors that they can't play AAA for 1/2 a season until the inevitable veteran injury. Surely you cannot argue either

they don't have anything left to prove in AAA (since they never really did squat there)
they won't hit as well in AAA (Fresno!) as SF!

Why burn your bridges? Maybe you manage to dump Winn AND Roberts for some bullpen/IF help!

The only logical thing - is that the need the money NOW, in 2008. The only player worth Bonds kinda-money in this free agent class is...

.
.
.
.
A-Rod.

by zenbitz on Oct 4, 2007 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Maybe...

They sign A-Rod and tell him he can concentrate on hitting home runs the next few years until they have another competitive team. That way he could come closer to the record, perhaps hitting 60-65 a year (albeit at a lower average and everything else) and then once the Giants have a good core group around him he'd lead the offense with 40-50 dingers and actually have other offense around him.

Lance Niekro AAA Watch: 108 AB .287/.352/.463 6 2B 2 3B 3 HR 11 BB -- 0.2 IP 27.00 ERA 3 H 0 BB 0 K (through 8/19)

by WalrusMan on Oct 4, 2007 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions

So what you're saying......

is that we need to root for the Yankees to win it all, that way the need for a ring won't influence his decision....

Not sure I can do that. Yankee hate runs deep.

by The Balls of Summer on Oct 4, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Maybe...

If the Giants sign A-Rod, who is going to hit behind him in the lineup? They won't have any money left to sign anyone. Either they make a trade or A-Rod will break Bonds' IBB record.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

By all accounts, Bonds insisted on knowing the team's plans prior to season's end. For all we know, they did say something like "If we can move Winn and Roberts, we might have a spot for you.", but it was not definitive enough for him.

I don't think likely to be the way it played out, but it wouldn't surprise me if Bonds' inistence on knowing one way or another conflicted with management's uncertainty of how the off-season will pan out.

World Series prediction: Cleveland over Chicago in six games. (I guess I'm still Klesko's adoptive pop; they gypsies weren't interested.)

by Goofus on Oct 4, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Christ people...I can't even make it half-way through the thread without A-Rod being mentioned....BLAH.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 5, 2007 5:54 AM PDT up reply actions

A-Rod needs to mature a little biit

A-Rod appears in this picture to have prominent spittle on his jersey -- right below the big "A."

Perhaps this photo best represents our possibilities of signing Rodriquez: When
A-Rod's old and drooling, with 832 career homers, Sabean will finally make his move.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

The super-secret goal is a two- or three-year plan.

Sadly for us, those years are 2011-13.

Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Oct 4, 2007 2:52 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

And it's so ultra-secret, Sabean doesn't even know about it yet.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Even if it's not confirmed, it provides some hope that Sabean isn't really dumb enough to try the "win now and rebuild at the same time" strategy.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 4, 2007 2:54 PM PDT reply actions

Current Organizational Philosophy

But it sure beats "Lose now, and Deconstruct at the same time."

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Current Organizational Philosophy

Which will be our end result either way -- so wtf Sabes, say whatever you want.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 8, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Believe any transaction Sabean will be making is with an eye towards the future. Sabean stated as much when he mentioned acquiring talent that SF can control for many seasons.

by wilriv21 on Oct 4, 2007 2:55 PM PDT reply actions

Aaargh

Sabean's coveted "baseball eye" pops out occasionally, and has been seen rolling around on the Giant's front office carpet from time to time since 2004.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Truthfully, I'm for taking gambles on players (the Sexson's and Nick Johnson's) while we build for the draft and if we don't contend sell off our pieces at the break.

Sabean can be experimental...all he has to do is find offense. The pitching will be there, we can gamble on offense while rebuilding. The real rebuilding is via the draft and I think we should give our at-bats to guys with potential to surprise.

Just because we have young players, it doesn't mean we need to play all of them. Call me crazy, but I don't think Ortmeier has earned 400 at-bats after failing in over 1,000 minor league at-bats. He certainly is worth seeing more than someone like Dave Roberts, the key is the veterans Sabean brings in are not high reward players

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 4, 2007 2:58 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Your crazy

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Any comments as to why?

Do you really think that Dan Ortmeier is the 1B of the future? I think he could be a reserve OF, but he was never a 1B in the minors, he'd be like a DH playing at 1B in the NL, and not giving the kind of production you seek from even an avereage MLBer. What's so crazy about hoping that Sexson/Johnson can put together a good year, be traded at the deadline for a couple of prospects or recieve compensation picks for them in the next draft?

Lance Niekro AAA Watch: 108 AB .287/.352/.463 6 2B 2 3B 3 HR 11 BB -- 0.2 IP 27.00 ERA 3 H 0 BB 0 K (through 8/19)

by WalrusMan on Oct 4, 2007 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Any comments as to why?

If Ort does well in the AFL i think he deserves a shot as the starting 1B.

Can't w8 for '08!

by southcitysteve on Oct 4, 2007 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions

A Double for a Homer

If Ort does well in the Arizona Fall League, I think that merely deserves a shot at the Pink Pony.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

His crazy what?

by paboperfecto on Oct 4, 2007 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Exactly.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

OK, I'll call you crazy. :^)

Look at Ortmeier's stats in the majors this year. To start, part time play, 800 OPS, comes back, get regular play, 800 OPS. All with 15-25 HR power. 800 is not great, but it would be a leader on our team except for Bonds probably.

At minimum, it would be one less position to worry about, with Aurilia there as backup should he implode, or they could bring up McClain or somebody mid-season.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 5, 2007 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

First of all, .800 OPS for a 1B is marginal, MLB average 1B was .821. So, he was above replacement value, but not by much.

Second, it's 167 PAs.

Third, he's never had that high a SLG ever.

by zenbitz on Oct 8, 2007 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

thinking about 2009 and beyond is the only way to go about rebuilding this team. They need to get some solid young position players who may be ready to play everyday in 2008 and start making an impact in 2009.

The first step is admitting they have a problem and that 2008 is already lost unless they want to bankrupt this team and mortgage the future, and then the team would be in the same spot 4 years from now.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 4, 2007 3:01 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I really hope that's true. It would make me feel a lot better about the team. We'll have to see what actually happens this offseason though.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 4, 2007 3:23 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

My psychic powers are blocked by the massive lead shielding at 24 Willie Mays Plaza.

by Skaldheim on Oct 4, 2007 3:40 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

These are not the droids we're looking for.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions

You can go about your business.

Bully on the person who breaks this unstoppable Nerd-fest of quoting Star Wars starting with the above lines.

Lance Niekro AAA Watch: 108 AB .287/.352/.463 6 2B 2 3B 3 HR 11 BB -- 0.2 IP 27.00 ERA 3 H 0 BB 0 K (through 8/19)

by WalrusMan on Oct 4, 2007 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions

NERDS!

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 4, 2007 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm not ashamed.

It's the computer age. Nerds are in. They're still in, right?

by Sandor Clegane on Oct 4, 2007 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I'm not ashamed.

Give Gregor my best....

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Oct 4, 2007 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Reviewing most of the `08 Free agent class again?

by daveinexile on Oct 5, 2007 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

This is sorta what I alluded to in my diary a couple days ago. That is, Sabean doesn't exactly expect to turn around the offense quickly and is therefore going to short up the bullpen and build around speed and defense (short-term) until some bad contracts come off the books and we know more about our semi-prospects.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Oct 4, 2007 4:39 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I would like to see them sign bullpen arms in hopes they can turn them into prospects at the deadline. Sign Dotel, Riske, Linebrink, whoever and try to deal them. Take the same approach with position players. Get Sexson and hope he turns it around, if he doesn't you're only committed to next year.

Heck the Indians got Asdrubal Cabrera for freakin Eduardo Perez.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Oct 4, 2007 4:46 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

And Cabrera takes Wang deep!

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Oct 4, 2007 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Look, the guy's private life is none of our business.

SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Oct 4, 2007 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I think this is a brilliant move for guys like Dotel or Gagne, but I'd be wary of doing that for a three-year deal on a guy like Linebrink. One year reclamation projects are the way to go, and the Giants should stock up on them.

And I almost wish the Giants had signed Gagne. Not just because he fetched a good price at the deadline, but because he would have meant 20 games in the standings and a Division title!!! THE BULLPEN IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!bonds's number-mays's number!!!!!!

by Grant Brisbee on Oct 4, 2007 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Yes, a a potential 3-year deal to Linebrink is a very scary thought. Maybe we could offer a little more money instead of a third year. Isn't that what his old buddy Ned does? Atleast with Furcal and Schmidt anyway.

But yes, the more reclamation projects the better. As long as Sabean is willing trade them at the deadline and not become a buyer if we're somehow less than 10 games out.

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Oct 5, 2007 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions

About your first point, Greg

Sabean outsmarts them all by offering more money and more years.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I hope that Sabean is being a sandbaggin' sonofabitch, but his actions will speak louder than his words.

by Cleophus on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM PDT reply actions

Sabean's sekrit plan

I think they're looking to 2009, because that's the only way it makes sense to not bring Bonds back for next season.

SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Oct 4, 2007 4:48 PM PDT reply actions

Okay, scratch Plan A

I think you're right, E-Me.

After the surefire disaster of 2008, we should resign Bonds for 2009.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Last Brian Sabean show of season on KNBR

Sabean just said he could see Bonds playing and contributing for another National League team with the right amount of rest. My head just exploded.

Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Oct 4, 2007 5:20 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Last Brian Sabean show of season on KNBR

I heard that, too. The interview, and shortly thereafter, the explosion.

Kitspool's head explodes loudly.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 4, 2007 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions

A long, shrapnel-filled season

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I am tired of dodging Kitspool's head fragments this year.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Does this mean we should root for the Rockies after all?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3049388

Sorry. Too dum to do links correctly.

by Lipssan1 on Oct 4, 2007 5:33 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

Let's stand pat in the free agent market this year and give our "prospects" a chance to sink or swim. The 2008 free agent market is pretty stacked. See you in the NLDS 2009.

The 2008 Giants: Think 2005 Rockies with a payroll twice as big and half as much talent.

by BCsteve on Oct 4, 2007 10:15 PM PDT reply actions

Swim, I say...with the Fishes in the Cove

Playoffs. 2009. God bless ya. Such a positive message you bring.

And...let our young talent sink or swim?

More like, sink, or plummet to the depths of the Marianas Trench.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I remember Bonds saying "I don't believe half what I say" or somesuch. I think Sabean is the same. I'm actually encouraged, though, if we take a 'slower' approach to re-building. Young arms take a while. We have no AAA hitting prospects. The FA market is weak (please no Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones, that is Ned Colletti material), and we have too many holes. I can live with a poor team if it is young and in development. $100 million payroll and last place is intolerable.

by MarkO on Oct 5, 2007 7:02 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

I listened to that podcast, and I heard an outfield of Davis, Winn and Roberts. That is neither good OR young. Do the Giants really think that's better for the future or even the present than an outfield of Davis, Nate and Lewis?? If you can't move Randy Winn I can live with him, but you simply cannot project Dave Roberts as your starting leftfielder. And since both Nate and Freddie are lefties, where does the playing time come for them when Roberts is out of the game for lefthanded pitching?? Their plan is already spouting leaks.

Randy Messenger: "Remember when my ERA was under 2.00??"

by rxmeister on Oct 5, 2007 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

If he's going to try and trade Roberts, which do you prefer him to say?

"We're going to do our best to rid ourselves of Roberts and his salary?
"We see Dave Roberts as a bench player on this team next year."
"Dave Roberts is a valuable asset who had a nice second half and has shown before he plays a quality LF."

My point...and I have one...is that we don't know what Sabean's actually planning as he's notoriously tight-lipped. We shouldn't hang on his every word as if he's the Fed Chairman.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics." -Barack Obama, 10/2/2002

by Goofus on Oct 5, 2007 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Quickly....

That's great news, particularly since I've been wanting that for a while now. 2008 needs to be a year of assessment of prospects to see if they can be contributors in 2009 and beyond, and if not, then trades and free agency after 2008 will fill holes.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley "I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 5, 2007 10:06 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Quickly....

This is solid thinking.

And I must add that we can also fill holes, at San Francisco National Cemetery, with Giant front office personnel.

by Moggeee on Oct 7, 2007 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions

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