Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

by kingofthacove on Oct 31, 2007 7:09 PM PDT Comment 48 comments

Bonds = A
Feliz = B
Vizquel = B

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2007-10-31-elias-rankings-complete_N.htm

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Hurry hurry step right up and sign former Giants

Will any sign before the arbitration date? Do teams still receive compensation for FAs?

by wilriv21 on Oct 31, 2007 6:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Not much will help us here. Bonds is the only A and the Giants are not going to offer him arbitration, so it really doesn't matter.

BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Oct 31, 2007 7:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

But there could be enough of a frenzy on the few hitters on the market that he signs pre-deadline, which would help us, arbitration or not.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 1, 2007 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Would not offering Bonds arb be the stupidest move since the Zito contract?

by zenbitz on Nov 1, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

It could be a good face saving maneuver to get Bonds back in LF next year. Personally I don't see a better way to spend 15 mil this offseason.

Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Nov 1, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

I don't think so....if the team is serious about him leaving, then offering him arbitration essentially puts the return in Bonds' hands, which is NOT good for the team.

A similar statement could be said about Feliz and Vizquel, both of whom seem like possible candidates to accept arbitration, but at least Feliz seems interested in a two year contract, so he might not accept....unless no one else is giving him offers.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 1, 2007 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

The grammar in this sentence is critically ambiguous. The contraction would, of course, read: "Wouldn't offering Bonds arb be the stupidest move since the Zito contract."

That's how I was reading it. But without the contraction it also reads as the opposite of that, or: "Would[n't] not offerning arb..." At least one person is reading it this way.

Which is the intended?

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 1, 2007 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

To be more clear, I mean the distinction between "would not" and "not offering." Not sure which one the "not" falls in and which one it doesn't.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 1, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

My opinion:

Offering Bonds arb is the ultimate win/win.
If he declines = draft pick
If he accepts, 1 year contract

Even if they really, really, really don't want him back - you think he's going to accept arbitration out of spite?

by zenbitz on Nov 1, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

He gets to play for the team he wants to play for at a salary that will almost certainly be greater than or equal to his salary this year. Why wouldn't he accept arbitration?

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 1, 2007 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Yes. And judging from the grandstanding at the Commonwealth thing, I do think he'd do it. (Might not be "spite", but to prove who's boss.)

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Nov 1, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

and once Bonds was boss, you know he'd try to sign A-Rod.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Nov 1, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Hmm, Andruw Jones's crap season has pushed him down into Type B. This is gonna push me one more baby-step up onto the Andruw Jones bandwagon ... Hey, where is the Andruw Jones bandwagon?

by Evan on Oct 31, 2007 7:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jump on

We might be the only ones on board at the moment. Thinking 6/96 - would that do it?

by wilriv21 on Oct 31, 2007 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

Oh dear God no.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Oct 31, 2007 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

So what would do it then?

6/120?

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 31, 2007 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

6/60, at most, maaaaaaybe. If that's not enough for Andruw Jones then I don't want Andruw Jones on this team. We have enough young, decent centerfielders that we shouldn't pay a premium to block them with a guy who may be only marginally better.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Oct 31, 2007 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

I'd love Jones at $10 mil per year. Wouldn't hamstring the payroll and would mean we had to build around just him.

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Nov 1, 2007 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

is he worth $9,500,000 more than Fred Lewis or Rajai Davis? Because that's how this deal will work. You're not paying him by the run created, your paying him by the run created above what the kids will produce. And I don't think that's enough to justify megabucks or even moderatebucks.

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Nov 1, 2007 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

I think 6/96 is just about right, if we're talking about what he's "worth" at current free-agent prices. But I imagine Boras is pointing to Carlos Lee's deal, adding in the defensive diffference between the two, and talking about 8/144 or some such crazy number.

If he can't get it, Jones could sign for a year in a home-run park like Philly or Cincinnati or Texas, then try again next year.

by Evan on Nov 1, 2007 5:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

I just don't see the 2008 Andruw Jones being worth $16m a year. If were getting the 2000 Jones next year
.303 BA
.366 OBP
.541 SLG
104 RBI
.. then I'd say "maybe." Or if we were getting the 2005 Jones:
.263 BA
.347 OBP
.575 SLG
128 RBI
.. then I'd lean more toward $10m per year. But I really don't think those days are coming back for him. It seems to me he's muscling up (whether naturally or chemically) and trying for the glamour stat of HR's, at the expense of his BA & OBP. At least Barry maintained his OBP while increasing his HRs.

I'll stipulate that Andruw's defense is still good enough for our RF. And that he'd hit more HR's than our entire INF (assuming no ARod). But he sure looks like a classic declining player, despite his current age of 30. Granted, he's declining from a higher level than most, but whatever contract he signs will just get worse and worse as the years go on.

Assuming we don't trade Roberts, Winn, AND Davis, Jones would fit in RF best, and we have a pretty good prospect there in Schierholtz already.

Now if he's interested in playing 1B, that would be an entirely different matter.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 1, 2007 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Jump on

Jones in RF would be cool stuff. With Winn in LF and Davis/Lewis platooning in CF.

Schierholtz and Ort can battle it out for 1B or platoon, with the natural benfit of the other guy also being a 5th OF.

Deal Roberts somehow.

Deal Lowry for Hall like Grant said.

If all this happens, I might support a push for Lowell at 3B, as long as the contract isn't too long. I was not excited about Lowell until watching him day-in, day-out in the post-season. Dude rakes...and not just because he's in Fenway.

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Nov 1, 2007 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

There is an MLBTR link about Jones and Dog's. Dodgers Serious about Jones. C'mon Ned, sign him. Take away the temptation :-)

My adopted son Matt Downs. My boy used to be a pitcher. Who knew he could hit and play defense ?

by nvsfg on Nov 1, 2007 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Not only would that take away the temptation but it would take away at-bats from Ethier and Kemp.

In fact, the Dodgers signing Jones would make me happier than anything the Giants could do this off-season to improve the team.

Of course, knowing our luck, Sabean would probably trade for Juan Pierre so that the Dodgers have an outfield of Jones/Ethier/Kemp. And we'd have an outfield of Winn/Roberts/Pierre/Lewis/Davis/Schierholtz.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Nov 1, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Of course, knowing our luck, Sabean would probably trade for Juan Pierre so that the Dodgers have an outfield of Jones/Ethier/Kemp. And we'd have an outfield of Winn/Roberts/Pierre/Lewis/Davis/Schierholtz.

Don't ever utter those words again :-)

Actually, I've heard the rumor (MLBTR) that the Dodgers are not really that high on Kemp after the baserunning errors and miscues in the OF last year. Do you know any team that could use a 27 yo OF that hit .342/.373/.521/.894 ? Any particular team come to mind ? Anyone ? Bueller ?

My adopted son Matt Downs. My boy used to be a pitcher. Who knew he could hit and play defense ?

by nvsfg on Nov 1, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

I think it crashed shortly after liftoff.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Emmanuel Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 1, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Austin Kearns is a type A?

by kwyjibo on Oct 31, 2007 9:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Linebrink is an A as well.

by KCE on Oct 31, 2007 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

what about David Riske? He declined his mutual option with KC the other day.

by wilriv21 on Oct 31, 2007 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

David Riske

I would absolutely take that Riske.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Nov 1, 2007 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

We could get a sandwich and 2nd round pick for Pedro Feliz? Boo yeah! Will anyone actually sign him to a multi-year contract like he's asking.

Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Oct 31, 2007 10:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

I could see the Twins perhaps offering him 3 years and $12-15M. He is the best defensive 3B in baseball and his righthanded power would be valuable in the Twin Cities.

by giantsrainman on Oct 31, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Also, the Phillies had Abraham Nunez playing third, and he is downright Neifiriffic. Feliz is actually a clear upgrade for them.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Oct 31, 2007 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

You are correct. But in the Phillies case he would be a fall back if they do not get Lowell. Which I actually hope is the the case since I want the Giants to get Lowell.

by giantsrainman on Oct 31, 2007 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

yeah, because fenway doesn't help right handed hitters much now does it?

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Nov 1, 2007 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

I think Type B FAs only bring a sandwich pick now, right?

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Oct 31, 2007 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

You are correct. Only Type A's result in two picks.

by giantsrainman on Oct 31, 2007 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

I'd be happy to just get a sandwich for Feliz. With some brown mustard and a pickle.

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Nov 1, 2007 4:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

No kidding. Noonan was a sandwich pick and right now looks like our 2nd best pick up (I'm bullish on Alderson). Of course, Jackson Williams and Manny Burriss were also sandwich picks.

Brett Wallace is estimated to go in the sandwich round this year, so sign me up!

Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Nov 1, 2007 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Of course, when the Giants picked Burriss, Joba Chamberlain was still on the board.

by mxmob33 on Nov 1, 2007 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

yeah well Albert Pujols was still available when the Giants picked this guy, so...

you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area

by nick on Nov 1, 2007 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

There were 401 players that were taken while Pujols was available, so no one (not even the Cards) can be held blameless. Welcome to the draft.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 2, 2007 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Oh god, you mean we'll get a draft pick if we let Omar go?? The evidence mounts against a return for Dreamy.

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Nov 1, 2007 4:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Only if we offer arbitration or he signs early, neither of which seem likely.

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 1, 2007 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

For what it's worth, here's the draft order (with proper tie-breakers):

Tampa Bay
Pittsburgh
Kansas City
Baltimore
San Francisco
Florida
Cincinnati
Chicago White Sox
Washington
Houston
Texas
Oakland
St. Louis
Minnesota
LA Dodgers
Milwaukee
Toronto
Atlanta
Chicago Cubs
Seattle
Detroit
New York Mets
San Diego
Philadephia
Colorado
Arizona
LA Angels
NY Yankees
Cleveland
Boston

SFDugout.com - Returning Offseason 2007

by BruteSentiment on Nov 1, 2007 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Elias (FA Type) Rankings released

Brute, will you be updating the draft order of the first few rounds in 2008 as free agent signings happen? I think that was you who did that last year, and that was one of my favorite resources last offseason.

by KCE on Nov 1, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs