Rumors....
From the Chronicle:
Here are Fukudome's career stats. I love that he's been an on-base machine. But while the Giants could certainly use a 30-homer corner outfielder, 30 homers in Japan doesn't necessarily mean 30 homers in MLB. Here's the transition of a statistically similar player:
Career in MLB: .272/.325/.387, 17 HR, 77 2B, 1380 at-bats
Three-years, $24M? Take a chance.
Long-term deal after a bidding war, at the $10M price John Shea mentions? I'd rather have Andruw Jones.
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102 comments
Comments
Re: Rumors....
by seyheystretch on Oct 26, 2007 10:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by UnleashTheGore on Oct 26, 2007 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
He definitely won't hit for power at Pac Bell. Hopefully he'll be able to hit bombs on the road.
by stevieg on Oct 26, 2007 10:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
- moving to league that will sap some power in general
- moving to park that will sap his left-handed power specifically
- moving to lineup that will make it harder for him to get walks
You don't get any rewards if you don't take any risks. I guess I'm in favor.
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
by Mayor of 311 on Oct 26, 2007 10:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Here's a video of Fukodome
I love his swing, but the power might not translate to the big leagues. Hideki Matsui was a high-30's to 50 HR hitter in Japan, and he's average about 24 HR's a season (not counting his injured 2006), so you can expect him to lose some power. Still, Matsui has been a very, very good hitter while in the states.
Are the Giants trying to recapture some of the fan base by signing Fukodome? He'd be a big splash in the SF community.
by xanthan on Oct 26, 2007 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm no scout
by Salemicus on Oct 26, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm no scout
by BigO on Oct 26, 2007 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: I'm no scout
by UnleashTheGore on Oct 26, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Things to consider
It's lefty vs lefty so his approach might be much different against a righty.
Did you guys get a glimpse of that foul territory? That's HUGE and it was his home field. If he's pulling that kinds of OBP with foul territory that big, imagine what he'd do in SF with teeny tiny foul territory.
by Sigualicious on Oct 26, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Things to consider
by tobias on Oct 26, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
What kind of surface was that? That park looked big in the outfield, and really artificial (astroturf-y).
Baseball Prospectus has said that the Japanese leagues translate as somewhere between AAA and MLB. Ichiro! sure seems to have done alright (in the defense, and SBs, and lots and lots of singles departments) - setting the single season record for base hits ain't nothing.
> I'd love to see an Asian player
> in San Francisco, I think it
> would be great.
May I remind you of some games in Anahiem not too long ago, and a questionable deployment by Dusty : Lofton in CF, a superannuated Dunston DHing, excellent defensive CF Shinjo riding the pine ...
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
"The Red Sox wanted Giants outfielder Dave Roberts, a star in Boston's 2004 title run..."
...and was about to start screaming at Sabean for not dealing him, then read the rest of the sentence.
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by tobias on Oct 26, 2007 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Interesting...
by southcitysteve on Oct 26, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth...
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 10:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: For what it's worth...
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
A Lewis-Davis-Fukodome-Schierholtz outfield.
Otherwise we just don't have room for another outfielder.
by rotorueter on Oct 26, 2007 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Plus having an Asian player may have PR value.
by rotorueter on Oct 26, 2007 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
:-)
Didn't know Fukodome could play 3B. I'm liking him replacing Feliz a lot more than I'm liking him replaining Winn.
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Fukodome will probably hit less homers and be a downgrade in defense. However, he'll most certainly strikeout less and have a better average and probably score a few more runs. I don't see it as a vast upgrade over Feliz at third.
by Sigualicious on Oct 26, 2007 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Plus, I think he would be a big draw for the Asian community and that might be one of the Giants angles.
by xanthan on Oct 26, 2007 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
In terms of positions I have confidence we could hit league-average (or better) performance from in next season, in declining order :
2B - Fransden & Durham
C - Molina
RF - Winn
CF - Davis, Roberts, Lewis, etc.
And Dreamy will be an OK choice for SS, assuming that we can get offense from 1B, 3B, and LF (which I see as being the big challenges going towards 08).
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Durham - .218/.295/.343 in 464 AB's
Frandsen - .269/.331/.379 in in 264 AB's
It's truly amazing that Durham played as much as he did.
by xanthan on Oct 26, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
When is too much? For example, Durham was hitting pretty badly in 2006 for about half a year, then turned it up big time. Same with Alfonzo his first year with us, nothing much first half, on fire second half (he had almost 1 RBI per game average in second half).
Then there are years like Durham in 2007, Alfonzo any year after that, where they just sucked all year long.
How do you know if it is a year he turns it up in the second half, or sink even lower instead?
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 26, 2007 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
As for
Good question, but I would be skeptical of Durhams chances because of his age. How often do 35 year olds turn things around so rapidly?
by xanthan on Oct 26, 2007 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Also, if there's an heir apparent at your position, it's time to pack up the old guy and give the heir apparent his shot.
by JRPhillips on Oct 26, 2007 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by trapper9 on Oct 27, 2007 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 27, 2007 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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> Sabean overpaid him.
Well I wasn't, ummm, personally angry at him. It's more like, he was a drag on the team at that salary, and that's one reason why people weren't so thrilled with him.
by SnowLeopard on Oct 27, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by jponry on Oct 26, 2007 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
I think that they give him the full time job at 2B and leave him alone, he'll be OK next year. Not Jeff Kent 2000, but, pretty much, the least of our problems. In fact, he's the only young homegrown Giant position player I have much confidence in (certainly a lot more than Niekro, Freddie, Ortmeier, or Schierholtz).
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
I mean, I can understand if you think Kevin has the best shot at being an MLB starter, simply because he fills the need and he's what we got, but the ceilings on Nate and Freddie are much higher, and if I'm not mistaken, they've already out-performed Mr. GIDP at the major league level.
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Plus, I really don't trust the Giants to have the player development philosophy and training to develop an actual stud hitter. My sense is that the kind of hitter that Frandsen is, you know, batting average with some gap power, but not many homers walks or SB, is the kind of hitter that I imagine is the best that could come out of their system.
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Fran has had a better eye throughout his career (BB/K ratio) especially last season at big league level.
Fran is a better contact hitter, posting better Line Drive percentage, better BABIP, and better batting averages.
Fran actually has a slightly higher ISOP than Lewis in the minors and both were hitting dingers at rate of about 1 per 60 AB in the bigs. I'd call them even in power.
Fran is a second baseman. Fred is a corner outfielder.
Lewis has been a better base stealer but even still he is below the 75% threshold where it's even worthwhile to steal.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
My earlier statement said another way: At this point, Frandsen is closer to reaching his potential. Because he has tools that Frandsen doesn't, Lewis' potential is higher, but he's not yet close to reaching that potential.
Said even simpler, if they both reach their potential, Lewis would be the more valuable player.
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2007 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2007 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Look the columns entitled "AVG OBP SLG" under equivalents - those are translated major league equivalents of his minor league performances. Pretty good numbers.
The chart doesn't have 2007, I guess you have to pay for that. Last year, of course, Frandsen batted .403 in his first 83 PAs of the year as a full-timer at Fresno, was brought up and struggled playing part-time in The Show, and then was given the full time job down the stretch and hit pretty well.
He's the one young Giant I have faith in - if they give him the starting job and leave him alone. .065 seems a bit high for an isolated OBP, he doesn't seem to me to walk that much, but, other than that, I see 2B as our strongest position right now (relative to the rest of the league).
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by SnowLeopard on Oct 26, 2007 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
There seems to be a bit of pipe smoking going on there. Honestly, I believe Kevin will be about 20 points lower in each category as long as he doesn't fall apart. And I'd be more than happy with just that much production from him.
He certainly has the potential to hit that well. I'm just not going to count on it.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2007 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Figuring out how to get 50 HR and 450 H+BB out of [LF+1B] next season is, to me, the biggest question of this off season.
by SnowLeopard on Oct 27, 2007 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by Lyle on Oct 27, 2007 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Maybe you've seen this already, but Szymborski and Zips are with you on this one, to the tune of .271/.322/.367
by SnowLeopard on Oct 27, 2007 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
The rest just assumes the rest of his Iso's improve slightly (since he is likely to peak at 27) so his IsoP of 110 goes up to 120 and his IsoB goes from 62 to 65.
Personally I think best case scenario for Fran is 315/385/460.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 27, 2007 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Lefty Malo points out that Frandsen and Pedroia's minor league aggregates look pretty damn close. Some commenters then problemitize this, but it's an interesting assertion.
by SnowLeopard on Oct 27, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Frandsen I think has a shot to be a ML average 2B at the plate.
by zenbitz on Oct 27, 2007 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Trying to find a blue chip clean up hitter who plays 1B, LF, or 3B, and support him with this year's Jack Cust or Carlos Pena (some non-All Star who is nonetheless ready to deliver), and do it all without weakening the rotation too much - that is the crux of the matter.
by SnowLeopard on Oct 27, 2007 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a qualified meh...
by Lyle on Oct 26, 2007 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Power isn't the end all. He still should be able to hit in general. Fukudome is exactly the kind of player I'd want if I knew 20+ power was also part of the package.
Maybe that's asking too much, though... I just don't know anymore...
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2007 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fukudome's
Fukudome: 571 BBs / 885 Ks, 0.645 BBs per K
Kaz Matsui: 376 / 751, 0.5 BBs per K.
Over their careers, Fukudome has both better sluggin g percentage: 543 to 486, and better iso slugging: 238 to 177.
Slugging and ISO slugging of some other Japanese players when they were in NPB: Hideki Matsui: 582, 278. Akinori Iwamura: 519, 219. Tadahito Iguchi: 471, 200.
Fukudome's defense is supposed to be very good. For Fukudome to be worth some thing like $10 a year, his defense would probably have to be as good as claimed.
Eric Byrnes got $30M. Average offense for a corner, with great defense.
Could Fukudome be something between Byrnes and Ichiro maybe?
by rfloh on Oct 26, 2007 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 11:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That is a pretty convincing argument
Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy
by hairball on Oct 26, 2007 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Pre-ASG: .226/.297/.337
Post-ASG: .291/.362/.388
Prev. 3 Yrs:.271/.352/.401
As you can see, Roberts hit roughly his career norm after his elbow healed and was OK after the surgery. And his career norm is a bit higher than what Andruw did in 2007.
Are you really willing to risk such a huge and expensive contract on Jones when you have no good explanation for what happened to Andruw in 2007? I'm not.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 26, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
He would be worth probably 2 more Wins than Roberts assuming he played about the same amount of time. And I'm guessing that even if we moved Roberts we'd be paying 4 mil a year of his salary. So that's like 16 mil a year for 4-5 wins or about 4 mil a win. Yikes. That's as wasteful as the Zito contract.
And Fukuodome is also on the wrong side of 30. Have to call this one a pass.
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by sharksrog on Oct 26, 2007 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Unless, like, it means there'd be more Japanese chicks at the ballpark, which would be cool.
by mxmob33 on Oct 26, 2007 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarge Jr got $50M / 5
by rfloh on Oct 26, 2007 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by Evan on Oct 26, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
That's not saying a lot, of course, but it is true.
by howtheyscored on Oct 26, 2007 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't do it Evan!
by Lyle on Oct 27, 2007 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
like eeeeeeever.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 26, 2007 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2007 Injury?
All I can find out is that he had endoscopic surgery to remove bone fragments from his left elbow? Maybe someone has some more details?
by Scottsdale on Oct 26, 2007 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: 2007 Injury?
by Scottsdale on Oct 26, 2007 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by Mike New on Oct 26, 2007 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by Natto on Oct 26, 2007 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
What artifically inflates numbers more, playing in Japan or playing in Fenway?
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 26, 2007 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by sleeknerve on Oct 26, 2007 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 26, 2007 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's not a 3b
CF is a more realistic, though IMO unrealistic, position change.
by rfloh on Oct 26, 2007 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
He's a left-handed, marginal power-hitting corner outfielder. that isn't what this team needs. That's what it already has. What we need is right-handed corner if/of THUMP.
So Fuck Sabean and his speed-ball dreams. FUCK THAT.
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 26, 2007 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
At 3B, I can at least understand that angle, we need a 3B, but again, $8M per year for 3 years? Hell, at that price, I would rather have Feliz for 2 years at $5M per, and I think we should look elsewhere for help for 3B, not Feliz or the expensive free agent market.
I think we should go with what Grant noted a while back in a post (and which I've been after for a while now too) and persue a reliever or two. We have seen a lot of good successes there in the majors.
Not so much for position players or starting pitchers, Ichiro mainly, but even Godzilla has been a pretty big disappointment, even with his fine play thus far. Dice-K has been nice but nothing near the hyperbole that others put out there on him. Igawa was an unmitigated disaster and Kazuo Matsui was an even bigger bust until rehabbing his rep with his play for the Rockies this season.
At 3 years and over $24M, I would rather start Frandsen there instead.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 26, 2007 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
That's just nuts. Why would you pay Frandsen over $24M for 3 years to play 3rd?
:-)
by Goofus on Oct 26, 2007 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rumors....
Well, he might take that .450 OBP/35-HR power from Japan and turn it into .410 OBP/25-HR power here. That's what the bidding teams will expect when they pay him $10M.
There are good reasons to doubt that, but your comment reads as if the best-case scenario would be that Fukudome is average. That's not true.
I'd rather pay Fukudome than Winn in a kind of Pascal's Wager:
a. Keep Winn -- Winn hits like Winn, which isn't enough to help a team all that much.
b. Sign Fukudome -- he hits like Jason Bay in Bay's prime. The team is helped a great deal.
c. Sign Fukudome -- he hits like Winn, which isn't enough to help a team all that much.
d. Sign Fukudome -- he bombs, which doesn't help the the team at all.
Of all of those scenarios, only one substantially helps the team, and the difference between a. and d. isn't likely to be that big of a drop off. This assumes that Fukudome makes about the same salary as Winn, and that Winn is traded. That isn't going to happen, as Fukudome will make much more than that, so it's a moot point. But that's why I'd pay him 3/$24M
by Grant on Oct 26, 2007 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What of Kenji Johjima and
by rfloh on Oct 27, 2007 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Winn
by orangeandblackattack on Oct 26, 2007 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Trading Winn
But Fukudome will get more, so it's a moot point. Whatever salary he does get will be too much.
by Grant on Oct 26, 2007 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pale ale
But I can't be rational about this. The allure of signing a foreign talent who changes the franchise for the better is just too much.
Dominican, Japanese, Cuban -- whatever -- it's so easy to fantasize about these guys. Also, I'm drunk.
by Dan from NM on Oct 26, 2007 10:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: pale ale
by rxmeister on Oct 27, 2007 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by bacci40 on Oct 27, 2007 12:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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by rxmeister on Oct 27, 2007 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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