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Stop Laughing....

What would it take for the Giants to get into the World Series next year?

Hey, don't get all judgmental on me for asking the question. Don't..HEY, I'M NOT HIGH. Or drunk. Even if I were drunk -- say, before noon from a delicious nine-year bourbon with caramel undertones and a hint of smoke, feeling guilty about drinking before noon on a weekday, but explaining it away with the "reward" defense, as in, I did well on my midterm today, so I deserve to sit furtively in the back of the train car clutching a bottle in a brown paper bag, though, at some subconscious level, I know that's just an excuse for doing the only thing I know that will help me think and write optimistic thoughts about the Giants -- it wouldn't change the validity of the question.

Ahem.

My thoughts:

  • Right now, the Giants have a rotation that is capable of getting them to the World Series. Josh Fogg wouldn't sniff the top four of this rotation, and I'd take Cain and Lincecum over every non-Francis in the Colorado rotation for sure, and probably over Francis too. I think the Giants have a more balanced rotation than Cleveland did, and the Indians were only one win from the Series. The Red Sox have a rotation that is pretty formidable; it would take either Cain or Lincecum to progress to a Josh Beckett-level next year to compare, and that is far from a given. Still, I think the Giants' rotation matches up well with most teams in baseball.
  • I have no problem ignoring the bullpen question, as random arms emerge every season for whatever teams make the World Series. Other than Jonathan Pabelbon and maybe Brian Fuentes, name one reliever for either World Series team on whom you would have put $5 to have a quality season this year. Exactly. Brian Wilson is the next Manny Corpas, and whatever cadaver the Giants sign is the next Matt Herges. Maybe. Probably not. But stay with me, now....
  • Considering the above two points, the Giants are about an average offense and a little luck away from contention.
Stop laughing. It's a known fact th...please, stop laughing. It's just rude. Let me explain myself.

I know the Giants are as close to an average offense as a complimentary bag of honey-roasted peanuts is to a 747. That minor detail has not gone unnoticed.

I know that any offseason acquisitions to improve the offense will come at the expense of this rotation that, as currently constructed, I claim matches up well with the rest of baseball. And that kind of invalidates the entire first point.

I'm just saying that if the Giants were magically bequeathed an average offense, it wouldn't be completely crazy to hope for them to be the Rockies of 2008. Not likely, but not completely crazy.

My definition of "magically bequeathed": Nate Schierholtz hits 30 homers, the Giants make a lopsided offseason trade, whatever free-agent mistake the Giants make has a career year, Kevin Frandsen exceeds expectations, Bengie Molina hits for even more power, and fifteen of the sixteen center fielders on the roster have fantastic seasons.

Not likely. Not even remotely likely. But not once-in-a-generation implausible.

"So you're telling me there's a chance...."

Comment starter: Forgetting my definition of "magically bequeathed" and substituting your own, do you think the Giants could reach the World Series with the current roster + an average offense? Or would it take an above-average offense and the current pitching staff?

0 recs | Comment 101 comments

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Re: Stop Laughing....
"...whatever free-agent mistake the Giants make has a career year..."

I seldom like Grant's writing, but that one made me chuckle.

As for the question, for an average offense + the current pitching staff to get to the WS, a LOT of things would have to go right/lucky, but it could happen.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 1:42 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
If the rookies can play and play well, anything is possible.
Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Oct 24, 2007 1:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Then again that might just be the acid talking.
Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Oct 24, 2007 1:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
you meant "rockies" right?
Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Oct 25, 2007 10:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Arod + another good FA hitter = Playoffs, I think.  If that hitter is Andruw Jones, great.  One thing to keep in mind about our '07 hitting is that many players had really bad years.  If they just come back up to average it will improve things dramatically.

I think we are close to having the best starting rotation in the league.  Maturity/experience/consistent offense will do a lot to make this happen.  

The bullpen should be fine.  Wilson may develop into a solid closer.  He has the stuff for it.

So in short: Arod + AJones + Aurilia/Durham/whoever unregressing to their norms  = playoffs.

Playoffs + winning 7 games = World Series.

by positiveuphemism on Oct 24, 2007 1:53 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Well, let's see, the Giants were 80 runs worse than average in scoring runs this year. Soooooo, if that 80-run deficit magically goes away and the pitching/defense stays the same, then you're looking at 763 runs scored and 720 allowed, which, pythagoraean-wise comes to ... about 85.5 wins. So yeah, that could happen. Let the magical bequeathing begin!

I should add that saying the word "pythagorean" always makes me start talking like Daffy Duck.

by Evan on Oct 24, 2007 1:56 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
This, Evan, I think, is the correct analysis.  I think you have to figure the subtraction of Morris and Ortiz and the addition of Lincecum and Correia means the pitching staff gives up 20 fewer runs.  What does Pythagorus say about a +63 runs?
  The problem is getting to 763 runs.  That, basically, translates to 3 more runs per week.  Without Bonds, it is hard to see how the OF will score more than the '07 OF.  It is also hard to see how the '08 IF will not score significantly more runs than the '07 IF.  Frandsen, assuming he hits like Sep is a huge improvement over Durham ('07 vintage), but that is probably only 25 runs over the season.  Ort could outproduce our multi-layered 1B platoon, say 12 runs.  SS is likely to be the same.  That is only 37 of the 80 additional runs needed.  And virtually all of those have to come from 3b.  3B may give us 15-20, but the rest are going to have to come from defense and the pen.  

by allfrank on Oct 24, 2007 10:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Yeah, I think if our offense improved to be average, we would probably be the favorites for the NL West. The problem is we've got quite a ways to go before we've got an average offense, especially with no more Bonds.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 24, 2007 1:58 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
This is key.  We had the worst offense around WITH Bonds.  It will be a challenge just to merely replace him, let alone add to that.
Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Oct 24, 2007 2:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Maybe I'm not answering the question as you've asked it, but here's how I'd respond to your proposition:
-If we had two Brian Wilsons in the bullpen (say if Randy Messenger morphed into Wilson2.0)
-If Nate hits .280+ with 25 HR
-If Randy Winn hits just like he did this year
-If Bengie Molina hits just like he did this year
-If Omar returns, maintains stellar defense, and hits no worse than this year
-If Rajai becomes the main lead-off guy and maintains a .375 OBP
-If Kevin Frandsen bats 2nd, plays 2nd, and hits the .285 I think he can, with occasional power
-If Sabean magically trades Lowry/Sanchez/Misch (no more than 2 of those guys) for a power-hitting corner infielder
-If the remaining corner infielder (Feliz, Ortmeier) can be semi-league-average offensively (okay, if Dan can be that)
-If Durham will happily be our super pinch-hitter
-If Dave Roberts accepts a trade, anywhere, for anyone (and I like him, we just don't need him)
-If the remaining Lowry/Sanchez/Misch pitcher doesn't suck while in the rotation with Cain, Lincecum, Zicasso, & Whomever

Well, yeah, sure, we could contend. And I could date Jessica Alba next year. But my wife thinks both ideas are hilarious, and highly unlikely.

What is more likely, imho, is that Brian Sabean solves the Giants' problems by signing an expensive FA relief pitcher like Linebrink, buries Rajai and Freddie on the bench in favor of Roberts, trades Sanchez and Henry Sosa for Corey Koskie, and names Cammie Blackstone as the replacement Assistant GM.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle on Oct 24, 2007 1:58 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I actually was laughing until you said "stop laughing," every time.

It'll take an above average offense, IMO.  Pretty much every team in the NL West is in a better position to contend than we are right now, and it'd take some amazing moves by Sabean to get us anywhere close to them.

LA has some ridiculously good young talent, and they can trade some of it for premier players that could instantly make them World Series favorites.

The Rockies are emerging as a solid team with an unbelievable offense, and some decent pitchers might actually not mind going to pitch for them, if they feel the Rockies could make another run.

Arizona, well, they have a crapload of talent and can get a premier player easily . . .making them serious players for the NL West crown once again.

San Diego . . .oh.  Well, they're not that good.  They're kind of like us, just, you know, with a good bullpen and a more developed pitching staff.

So while we might be able to improve on what we had this past year, and most likely will, it's more likely for the other NL West clubs to make deals that'll get them to the Playoffs faster than it would for us.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Oct 24, 2007 2:02 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
So you were laughing before you read the subject? Now that's some quality writing by Grant!
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 24, 2007 2:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
OR, he has also been hitting the "delicious nine-year bourbon with caramel undertones and a hint of smoke"

by Jakespaar on Oct 24, 2007 3:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
> San Diego . . .oh.  Well, they're
> not that good.  They're kind of
> like us

Now that The Big Guy is gone, I can't think of a Giant I'd bet don't have a better season at the plate than Mr. Anger (Bradley) or Spicoli (Green), not to mention Adrian Gonzales.

Plus, we're not EN FUEGO!! (sorry - couldn't resist).

by SnowLeopard on Oct 24, 2007 7:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Assuming that the rotation is made up of Cain, Zito, Lincecum, Sanchez/or Lowry, and Correia; and assuming Sabean sures up the pen to at least an average/above average level; then yes, with an average offense I don't see it as all that funny to say that the Giants have a shot at the playoffs next year. And once there, anything goes.

Roberts must be moved
Davis must perform to at least a .350+ OBP
Schierholtz/Lewis have to step it up, they will be crucial
Molina must repeat offensively
Frandsen must be around .275/.330/.390
If Vizquel's brought back he's got to be similar to Frandsen offensively
Feliz must be .250+.300.470, and I don't think this is impossible either
And Sabean's got to get creative to bring in a power theat at 1B.

Matt Cain, cleanup hitter or starting pitcher?

by cain1rstballothof on Oct 24, 2007 2:11 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Grant, to quote Daryl from last week's episode of The Office, you need to access your un-crazy side.
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Oct 24, 2007 2:16 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
If you get excited every time a short white douchebag comes around...

Darryl > Ryan by a thousand million. Well, anyone is better than Ryan, but Darryl is made of awesome to begin with. Major upgrade for Kelly.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 24, 2007 2:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
But he says exactly what's on his mind!  What kind of sick game is that?
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 24, 2007 2:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Ryan is going to come crawling back to Kelly. You know it.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Oct 24, 2007 2:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
The big surprise this season is how Ryan became such a douche so quickly.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 2:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
The only reason he seems like a douche is because Michael's such a moron. Ryan's taking Dunder Mifflin in the right direction, he's just not taking Michael's Idoicracy (a ridiculously stupid movie, if anyone's seen it, btw).

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 2:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I loved Idiocracy. The film makes me fearful that the world is headed toward a desolate landscape of brainless wonders but at the same time it was entertaining and funny.
Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I was actually thinking that myself. It's just too dumb (IMO) to convey a serious message like that. The first half hour was pretty funny, but after that, my wife and I looked at each other and wondered aloud why the heck we were watching this...

Of course the answer was simple: it was taking up space on the TIVO and we were in the midst of an uneventful Friday evening.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I liked it, but it didn't seem to do as much with its premise as it could. I don't know what else there was to do, but it felt like there was something missing.  Still, funny enough.

Also, the word "electrolytes" now makes me giggle to myself.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 24, 2007 3:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Business-wise, he's making the right moves, no question.  When referring to him as a "douche", I was referring to things like bragging about the cost of his suits.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 3:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Threatening to fire Michael at a staff-meeting in front of everyone was pretty douchy, as well.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 3:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Two things that I particularly love about Ryan and Kelly:
  1. Ryan is one of the head writers.  So he's basically making himself a douche, it's pretty funny.
  2. Kelly is a producer.  Still don't know what they do.  But her fashion/trends obsessions crack me up, made funnier by the fact that she's probably brighter than her character.
Also had a roommate who acted almost exactly like Ryan.  And his name was Ryan!  So it's extra funny!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 24, 2007 3:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Kelly also writes for the show.

Imdb link

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 24, 2007 3:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I love the fact that BJ Novak and Mindy Kaling can make fun of themselves in the scripts they write.
Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 24, 2007 4:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Yah, the guy with the $3,000 suit is going to hold the door for the guy that doesn't make that in one month! C'mon!"

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Look at that...  You're mean SOBER too!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 24, 2007 3:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
An even better show than The Office, as blasphemous as it may sound to many...

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
So far I've seen references to The Office, Firefly, and now Arrested Development on this site.  It just goes to show, this is a sophisticated group with sophisticated taste.

And yes, AD was better than The Office.  For my money, it was the best comedy since Seinfeld.  I still mourn its passing.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 24, 2007 4:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

Seriously, though, I'm about the biggest Seinfeld nut there is, and after watching AD I go back and forth between which was better. Seinfeld found humor in every-day behavior, but AD is so damn clever.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 4:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I have had the same debate with myself.

I rule them equal.

Had AD been on longer it would win, but 2.5 seasons of awesome is not as good as 5 seasons of awesome.

But...

Seinfeld doesn't really get going till season 3.  The first two seasons aren't special at all.  Even season 3 is just pretty good.  Seasons 4 is where it became awesome.  AD was awesome from episode one.

There is one other show that I feel ranks up there with those two...Red Dwarf.  The first six seasons are as good as anything.

by positiveuphemism on Oct 24, 2007 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Seinfeld is an all-time classic, one of the best shows ever created.  Very true about the first two seasons, and the last few after Larry David left there was a mild change in the presentation.  AD was jerked around so much by Fox that season 3 ended up a little disheveled, but still remarkably funny.

It's crazy to me that Fox has ended so many great shows in recent memory.  They might not have gotten the mass appeal they'd like, but imagine if they had AD, Undeclared, Firefly, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, and Greg the Bunny as some flagship shows.  I miss them all.  I particularly miss A Magician Named GOB.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 24, 2007 4:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
"ILLUSIONS, Michael. Tricks are what whores do for money."

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 25, 2007 7:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
"Or candy!"
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 25, 2007 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Idoicracy was pretty good joke but not that good a movie.
there is no pain greater than being behind the Rockies in the standings

by oldjacket on Oct 24, 2007 4:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I'm really not surprised by Ryan morphing into a world-class douchebag so quickly. He was okay as the temp, and then he got hired permanently and sucked, and now he took what little power is given to him and he blew up into Ryan Howard: Douchebag. It's not quite a Schrute-esque level of megalomania, but it's close. Ryan driving his new penis car around and bragging about his super $200 haircut, Ryan thinking he has a chance with Pam, and then Ryan getting faced when Kelly hooks up with Darryl all point to a sad little man who's far less than the hot shit he thinks he is. He's a complete laughingstock now and I don't think he gets that he is.

I used to hate his character, and Kelly too. Now I love when Ryan shows up, because he gets owned every single time he's on camera. Kelly torturing him is one of my new favorite things about the Office.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 24, 2007 3:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Does it look like he cares all that much about what Kelly does/says to you? I can't decide but my first impression of his reaction was more of "Am I supposed to care?" Can't decide, to be honest.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
At first I think he was of the "am I supposed to care?" mind and now I think Kelly's antics are sort of getting to him. Might be more of the extreme annoyances of the Scranton branch piling up on him, though.
Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 24, 2007 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
My favorite moment so far this season was when Angela was being a total biatch to everyone and Michael kept swooping in with short jokes that would temporarily put her back in her place. ("You must be this tall to ride the roller coaster.") I think he was not even half aware that he kept coming to the rescue and she had no idea how to respond to his immature putdowns.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 3:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Better than Michael throwing the pizza at Ryan's face on the TV...hmm, I dunno...

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Or..."I...declare...BANKRPUTCY!!!" ?

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Yes, that was brilliant too.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 4:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
That was Kelly.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Oct 24, 2007 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Damnit I am striking out today. Still though, great moment.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 4:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
He always kind of had an attitude like "I'm better than this place" but when he was the temp or a junior sales guy he didn't really want to show that to people.  Now that he's been promoted to a position above them, he really is able to just come in and say "I'm better than this place."

It makes sense to me.

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 24, 2007 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
I <3 Darryl a ridiculous amount.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Oct 24, 2007 3:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
So what the heck ever happened to Roy? He's been MIA for the entire season so far...did he finally get in his last barfight?

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
He wouldn't really be at the office anymore since he got fired last year for going after Jim.
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 24, 2007 3:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Fired? Yikes, I missed that one apparently. RIP, Roy. You were the ultimate jackass.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 3:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
  This is actually a reasonable premise if you substitute 'year after next' for 'next' year.   The pitching staff should be even stronger, some deadwood should be gone and a few offensive puzzle pieces located over the course of next season.  Personally, I would rather we not rush the expectations.
non illigitimi carborundum, excessum Sabeanus.

by Moderation on Oct 24, 2007 2:19 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Ah, the voice of Moderation...literally.

by Goofus on Oct 24, 2007 2:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Either a toast to an ass,
Get your own donkey furball....
non illigitimi carborundum, excessum Sabeanus.

by Moderation on Oct 24, 2007 8:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Yes but more deadwood will be in its place come 2009.  Doy.
Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 24, 2007 4:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
  1. Lowry, Nate, and a prospect net us Jason Bay and he bounces back
  2. Ray Durham bounces back to an .800-.840 OPS level as he's been in the past. same with Zito
  3. We sign Morgan Ensberg and he bounces back to a .275/.370/.475 level
  4. We find adequate production out of SS either via trade (Lugo, Ronny Cedeno perhaps) or via Japan (Nioka). I could see Nioka putting up a .275/.325/.410
  5. Rajai/Lewis platoon works well. Lewis his .275/.360/.430 in his split and Rajai hits .289/.366/.380 in his split. They steal 40 bags between the two of them.
  6. Bengie can come close to his 2006+07 levels
  7. At 1B we trade for a Sexson salary dump and hope he can bounce back to a .260/.350/.525 level  OR trade for Nick Johnson and hope he can stay healthy
  8. Brian Wilson emerges as a dominant reliever like he showed he could be last year
  9. Either sign Gagne or Billy Sadler needs to gain command of the strike zone and become a great reliever
  10. Correia needs to be able to give us 200 innings of 3.80-4.25 ERA ball. I think he can do it
That's my top 10 list...some of those aren't that far-fetched, others obviously are. Obviously you can sub in a Sanchez breakout for Correia, but both would be nice, but only one needs to happen.

If all that happened, we'd have a great chance at our division and any team that makes the playoffs has a shot at a WS ring

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 24, 2007 2:37 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Wow, I knew Zito had improved his hitting this year, but .800 OPS? Who needs Bonds when you have Cain and Zito, Hitting Extraordinaires.

Lugo? Adequate? Apparently you haven't been watching the Sox this year.

by UnleashTheGore on Oct 24, 2007 2:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
If you haven't noticed the theme of the players I suggest bringing in, most aren't coming off of good years.

The idea with Lugo is his poor year and contract make his value low and we hope for a rebound, which is likely. Similar to what ATL did with BOS when they got Renteria, except Renteria wasn't as bad as Lugo and we'd absorb more money because we dont have an Andy Marte to trade

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 24, 2007 2:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
Lugo is owed $27 ($9M per 08,09,10) plus a vesting option of $9M for 2011, if he gets to 2400 PA betwen 2007 and 2010 (not likely, he had 570 this year).

Sexson is owed $14M in 2008.

Jason Bay is owed $13M ( $5.75M in 08, $7.5M in 09). All salary data from Cot's.

That's almost $30M for one year. I'd rather see the "kids" play for that kind of money. I don;t see those particular players adding much more value on the field than our current crop of "unknowns". Now..if there are GM's that would take Winn,Roberts and Durham ?

My adopted son Matt Downs. My boy used to be a pitcher. Who knew he could hit and play defense ?

by nvsfg on Oct 24, 2007 4:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
  1.  If we have to give up that much for Jason Bay, I'll pass...8 days a week.
  2.  Durham's career OPS is .787, so even a "bounce back" wouldn't put him near your expectations.
  3.  Ensberg seems like the poster-child for HGH.
  4.  I'd pass on Cedeno, Lugo is intriguing, know nothing about Nioka.
  5.  That's fine, now we have to unload Roberts.
  6.  Bengie:  If you are gonna step up to the plate over 500 times in a season, you MUST have more than 15 walks.
  7.  Sexson would be a mighty gamble, but I'm not totally opposed.  Johnson would be ok but he may be a long way from returning.
  8.  I hope so.
  9.  I hope you're kidding.
  10.  Correia's my dawg.  I hope he can do even better than your prediction!
So yea, some stuff is far-fetched.  I don't agree with all of it but some of it is bueno.
Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 24, 2007 4:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
A) Lowry is owed about the same amount as Bay, so their contracts essentially cancel each other out

B) In his 13 year career, durham has posted an OPS over .800 8 times. 3 of the 5 times he failed to post one were the first 3 years of his career, which makes sense as power comes more in the mid to late 20s. The other two times were last yea (which was horrible we all know) and 2005 where he missed an .800  OPS by .15 points. Even if it is just to his career average, that's productive

C) Obviously Roberts has t be unloaded, but that shouldn't be that hard if we eat half his salary. Sure, that's a big waste of money, but it's cutting our losses fine if you ask me. A few teams would be willing to take Roberts at 50% off his salary.

Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Oct 24, 2007 5:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Stop Laughing....
A) I'm not talking about money so much as talent.  I think we are giving up too much in the way of talent to get Bay should we execute the trade you proposed.

B) Durham ain't gettin any younger/better.  We'd be LUCKY if he posted anything near his career average OPS.

C) Which teams?

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 25, 2007 6:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs