New Barry Zito Nickname

by Brother Bummer on Oct 22, 2007 8:12 PM PDT

There's an article in the New Yorker this week about Scott Boras and in it he mentions his fleecing of the Giants and his affectionate nickname for Zito:

He brought up, as an example, Barry Zito, the San Francisco Giants' lefty who is known almost as much for his surfer persona as for his sweeping curveball. "What we did with Barry Zito a year and a half ago is one of my better pieces of work," he said. "It was really about getting him to be him. I call him Zicasso. The thing is, he wants to pitch powerfully, and I'm saying, `No, you're Zicasso! You got to be the artist-poet-intellectual. That's what you're out there to do.' He feeds off it. `You're Zicasso. You come out and you paint!' " He added a wavelike flourish with his arm to punctuate each new mention of Zicasso--whose performance in the past couple of years, incidentally, has not been discernibly better than it was before.

Zicasso. I'm going to be sick. I don't like the stroke, the paintings, or the price, but okay. Perhaps he should be called Zollack.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/29/071029fa_fact_mcgrath?printable=true

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

I don't wish him anything severe, but if somebody could hang Boras up by his feet for a while while flogging his face and chanting "you will not speak or negotiate ever again" until he gets the message, I don't think I would object.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 22, 2007 8:35 PM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

I'm partial to "El Moolah" myself.

and there is some debate about "The Albatross" but I'm ok with that, too.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 22, 2007 9:15 PM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

LeMaster and I called him "Albatross" earlier in the year. Seeing all the gulls around the ballpark also made me think that his first child should be named Jonathan Livingston Zito.

:::snare, cymbal::::

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses. Try the veal.

The Johnnie LeMaster fan club vice-president. E6 Forever!

by Van Smack on Oct 22, 2007 9:55 PM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

I call him 'crunchbarry', but that's just me...

by boonitez on Oct 22, 2007 10:42 PM PDT reply actions

Boras is a Genius

Zicasso? Then start painting the corners!

Maybe we should tell Boras and Zito NYC has a ton of art museums, galleries, exhibits and would be a benefit and honor to trade him to NYC. Possibly the Yankees or Mets would be interested. No need to say he has a NTC because he would waive it once he hears about the shows, openings. Would make his daddy happy too.

Until then I will address him as "The Albatross".

by wilriv21 on Oct 22, 2007 11:43 PM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

I will nickname him Zicrapo and he can add a wavelike flourish with his arm to punctuate that all he wants.

by Chaco on Oct 23, 2007 12:06 AM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

Dude, for a second my decaffeinated brain read your SN as "thac0," and I was about to curse you for your awesomeness.

Which is not to imply you're not awesome. I wouldn't know either way, we've just met.

"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Oct 23, 2007 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Not only has his performance

in the last several years not been discernibly better than it was before, it's been worse.

Boras should stick to negotiating contracts.

by rfloh on Oct 23, 2007 12:12 AM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

You know the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; persuade me to give Barry Zito 126 million dollars, shame on me."

Or maybe that's a new saying. Whatever.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 23, 2007 7:10 AM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

I don't have anything in particular against Boras, but that seems like some pretty bad advice. Relying on that huge curveball, Zito is never going to be able to paint the corners. Adding a little more power to his pitching is precisely what he needs to do.

by Evan on Oct 23, 2007 8:33 AM PDT reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

And was apparently his game plan for 2007 until everyone went forking apeshit.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Oct 23, 2007 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

Everyone very reasonably went forking apeshit in my honest opinio. What was Zito doing messing with his mechanics without a single professional opinion?

Even if he had ALL of the right ideas, and it very clearly seems like he did, he probably only knows the first thing about actual mechanics, and was running a serious risk of integrating some kind of mechanical flaw into his delivery without knowing it. Now if he'd had professional help, it would have been a different story - and I believe he absolutely should tinker similarly this offseason, but with expert assistance this time - but he didn't.

I mean, I have all the right ideas figured out for rewiring the lighting in my kitchen. That doesn't mean I should get up and do it myself.

I'm not trying to crucify Zito here for tampering with his delivery in the offseason. It was a good idea. And he should be looking for ways to imporve his delivery and his longevity. I just don't get why he seems to always get a free pass for being potentially reckless with his body and failing to notify the team of his intentions. The team had every right to overreact. There was no telling what Barry had screwed with in his desperation summer.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2007 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

I disagree with your lighting analogy

Zito IS a professional player. He should know something about (his own) pitching mechanics.

by rfloh on Oct 23, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: I disagree with your lighting analogy

I believe he knows something about his own mechanics, but that doesn't mean he knows a heck of a lot about mechanics at large. He's a professional baseball player. That's a different thing than a professional pitching/mechanics coach. The two have their fair share of overlap, and obviously there are "professionals" out there who don't know the first thing about healthy biomechanics, but my issue is that Zito wasn't just tweaking the mechanics that he knows inside and out. He was actually overhauling his whole mechanical process (that might be a tad exaggerated).

Bottom line for me is, even though Zito knows a thing or two about mechanics by virtue of being a pitcher, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him to start messing with the delivery of anybody in the league. That includes himself.

Maybe it's just me, though. I mean, there's a reason we have pitching coaches and mechanics experts. Isn't it because pitchers don't know usually enough on their own to make the right changes at the right times? What makes Zito different?

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2007 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, there are pitching coaches

but not all pitching coaches are created the same. Some, are mechanics guys, others are more "pat the pitcher on the butt" types.

Yes, pitching coaches are there to help pitchers with their mechanics. Just as coaches in other sports are there to help their athletes with their form / technique. But the amount of help they give a certain athlete depends a lot on the athlete. Some athletes depend entirely on, and trust completely, their coaches. Some don't.

Also, it isn't as if mechanics experts, in any sport, don't disagree, sometimes strongly, on what is "best", or even recommended form / technique.

by rfloh on Oct 23, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Yeah, there are pitching coaches

Valid points all, and I admit that some mechanics/pitching coaches don't know what they're doing. That's hardly the point, though. Somebody with formal training is going to be much much more likely to know what to do with Zito's delivery than he will be, strictly on account of that training. And even where there is disagreement among the good ones, it's still highly informed disagreement.

Whatever. I just don't buy the whole "Zito knows best" line. For all we know he was putting himself on a straight line path to Tommy John surgery (doesn't sound like it based on what he was trying to do, but "good intentions" and so on). He might not have been, but WHY in the world should you put the $126 million risk behind the logic that Barry just knows what he's doing when there is no actual reason that he might know what he's doing other than "he's a pitcher!"?

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2007 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions

You're misintepreting me

I'm not saying "Zito knows best", and that he is completely infallible just because "he's a pitcher".

I'm saying that an athlete, especially an experienced and fairly successful athlete, tweaking his / her own mechanics isn't as outrageous as you seem to be suggesting.

Also, what is "formal training"?

by rfloh on Oct 23, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: You're misintepreting me

Sorry, I'm not attacking you specifically. There is this prevailing idea that Zito is infallible in this whole thing, that his offseason changes were going to be the difference between 200 BZ and 2006 BZ, no questions about it. And I get a little frustrated with that. Ok, ok. I get a lot frustrated with that.

You are obviously not saying that, and for that I appreciate your opinion. Obviously, I still disagree on a key point, but I don't think it's a point that has one lock down answer.

I think that it was unreasonable for Zito to change his mechanics on his own without notifying the teams he was negotiating with. Thus (and especially considering the contract), I think it was reasonable for the team to overreact to it. I think it was unreasonable of Zito because as far as I (or any other casual fan) know, Barry Zito is not particularly educated about mechanics, and appeared to be making the move out of some kind of desperation.

You seem to think it was reasonable because there is no reason to believe that Barry Zito knows any less about healthy mechanics than many professional coaches (who often don't have a formal education on the subject, I submit to that point), and plenty of reason to believe that Zito understands his own mechanics better than most. Furthermore, he was obviously on the right track, as strengthening his core and so on have been discussed at length as positive steps by just about everybody who does know what they're talking about (CBWannabe, as well, I believe).

I think you don't say anything that I can necessarily dispute. I just feel the other way somewhat more strongly. Like I said, it's not you or your way of approaching this that I resent. In fact, I greatly respect it and the lengths you've gone to establish your point. It is that other way people think about this, that extreme "Damn the ballclub, Zito is teh awesome in his changyness!" that I'm taking aim at.

And just to answer your last last question, by formal training I really just mean formal education. And by that I mean that the person has made a legitimate professional study of pitching mechanics. Obviously, this does not apply to many coaches or "professionals," and that is unfortunate. imo it is much more likely to apply to them then any single player, but I'm sure even that is up for dispute.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2007 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Formal training

The problem with that is that there really isn't much "formal" training on pitching, at least none that I'm aware of. As it is, there are pretty strong differences of opinion on certain aspects of mechanics. You mention CBW. In that case, you're probably aware that he favours an explosive pitching style; a pitcher who pitches with a fast tempo. Other pitching coaches do not agree.

Unlike say weightlifting, USA Weightlifting in the US, there is no governing body for pitchers / pitching, that conducts exams and hands out certifications.

Yes, ideally, pitching coaches should have a degree, or some similar qualification, in biomechanics / sports science / mechanical engineering. But even if they do, those qualifications only provide a general base, they still do not address pitching mechanics specifically.

As for Zito, he has a reputation, which he has cultivated, of being "intellectual", for being "enlightened" about his body: ie he takes pride in working out, taking care of himself, doing the "right" things, yadda yadda. Whether those things are "right" is debatable. Whether he actually knows what he is doing is of course debatable. But it isn't as if he's a guy who's throughout his career has taken a "non-intellectual" approach to his body only to have a sudden change in philosophy.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2007 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: You're misintepreting me

I think howie makes a very good point. I just don't think most ballplayers, even the smart college guys, know enough about kinesiology/mechanics/etc to accomplish what they might quite rightly view as their necessary improvements. In other words, I think howie's kitchen lighting analogy was spot on.

The SF Giants: agressively promoting young talent since 2008.

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Oct 24, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

Just think...

One year down, 6 more to go.....ughhhhhh

Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: Welcome Back!

by sfgreg on Oct 23, 2007 9:40 AM PDT reply actions

Props for Zollack

Wanted to give props to Bro Bummer for the Zollack joke. I definitely agree that Zito drips apparently random crap all over the canvas.

If we want to take "artist" very broadly, how about Zarrot Top? A HORRIBLE prop comic who is completely annoying.

I DO think Zicasso is unintentionally funny: Picasso painted naked chicks with the requisite number of body parts and fun bits, but they were all messed up and askew and, like, two breasts over on one side of the chest and a nose coming out of the chin. Zito DOES pitch the ball to each batter and does so until that batter's plate appearance is resolved, so in that sense, he IS a pitcher, but...

With the season over, I release my adoptee Brian Sabean. Good luck in the world, little buddy.

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 23, 2007 10:02 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Props for Zollack

Carrot Top is proof that steroids don't enhnace your performance. (Either that or he's the Neifi Perez of the entertainment world.)

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 23, 2007 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Props for Zollack

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 23, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Props for Zollack

Great comment from Lisa Lamprinelli (sp) on a Comedy Central roast in which Carrot Top was also on the dias: "I used to think people called you Carrot Top because of your flaiming red hair; now I realize it's because people want to see you buried up to your forehead in dirt."

My son (Kevin Correia) is an honors student at Righetti Prep

by VidaWantsYourCar on Oct 23, 2007 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Props for Zollack

I thought Ice-T's line was good too:

"The make-up, the muscles...it looks like in the middle of a sex-change operation, your doctor just said f*ck it."

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 23, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: New Barry Zito Nickname

Hey, I just learned from reading that article that Boras was an outfielder at the University of the Pacific! You don't suppose ... nah, couldn't be ...

by Evan on Oct 23, 2007 3:05 PM PDT reply actions