Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

by Skaldheim on Oct 18, 2007 1:26 PM PDT

It's hitting all the news just now. The Yankees decided to bring Joe back. Joe decided he'd had enough of their crap. Kudos for him, and the classy way he handled it, flying down to Tampa to tell them in person.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I'd love to know if "kiss my hairy smelly ass, Steinie" was in any way part of that conversation.

Bochy: grounded until he stops hitting and running with slow runners and crappy hitters

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 18, 2007 1:33 PM PDT reply actions

I would have fired him last week

Time for Joe to go.

by wilriv21 on Oct 18, 2007 1:34 PM PDT reply actions

Re: I would have fired him last week

why?

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 18, 2007 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I would have fired him last week

Fired him last week as to not drag out the process in respect to Joe? Or fired him last week as in, he sucked?

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 18, 2007 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I would have fired him last week

I would have fired him a week ago because I as an owner would demand this team move beyond the first round of the playoffs. For the third year in a row the Yankees had a first row exit. I would have decided that we need to win the ALCS or I would fire the manager. No need to string out. Would not even try to low ball just move on.

by wilriv21 on Oct 18, 2007 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: I would have fired him last week

Would you have fired Bobby Cox after he failed to win more than one WS in 14 straight tries?

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 18, 2007 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions

It wouldn't matter who was managing

He wouldn't have gotten that far for 14 seasons. If I was paying the Yankees payroll and paying my manager that salary I would demand more. And any manager who manages the Yankees knows this.

by wilriv21 on Oct 18, 2007 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Torre is being paid $7M

a year to manage a team with by far the largest payroll in MLB. It's not unfair for him to have to face higher expectations.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2007 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions

It is unfair

When those high expectations are that you win the World Series every year. Postseason baseball is a crapshoot where every team that makes it in is essentially 8 to 1 to win it all. If anything, going in you'd probably give a slight edge to teams with the strongest pitching, which the Yankees have not had recently.

Don't get me wrong, I think Torre is a bad game manager and his handling of the bullpen is especially awful. But those aren't the reasons that the Yankees aren't bringing him back. In essence, they're letting him go because Torre just hasn't been lucky enough recently.

The whole thing reminds me of the story of the hiring manager going through a stack of 1,000 resumes. He separates the stack into four piles and throws three of them in the trash. When asked why, he says, "I don't want unlucky people working for this company."

Rajai Davis: fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 19, 2007 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes, yes postseason ball

is (probably) a crapshoot; even Torre has admitted that recently.

HOWEVER, back when the Yanks were winning WS after WS, Torre never said no such thing. His reputation, his resume, was built on being a manager who won in the postseason.

Furthermore, the issue that arises then is why pay Torre $7M to manage a team of very talented players? If other managers can do the same as him, ie take the Yanks to the playoffs only to get dumped easily, why pay him so much to do the same?

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2007 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Yes, yes postseason ball

I have no problem with the Yankees not bringing Torre back. I think that team probably needs a new direction anyway. But to get rid of Torre based on his failure to win a playoff series is idiotic.

Managers (at the major league level) have little impact in a short playoff series. You can't blame Torre for not winning a championship just because your expectations are high. Lower your expectations and accept the reality that a team full of future HOFers can lose a 5-game series to the Royals if things go awry.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 19, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes, yes postseason ball

is a crapshoot.

But, back when the Yankees were winning WS after WS, Torre used to claim that there was something special about him / his managing style. He even wrote a book about this. He built his reputation on winning in the post season. He can no longer win in the post season. Too bad.

by rfloh on Oct 20, 2007 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Yes, yes postseason ball

I've never read Torre's book. And hearing that he claimed to have a special managing style, I'm cant express how happy I am that I didn't waste my time. I have officially changed my stance on the issue.

Few managers in the history of baseball should have the privilege of bragging about their managing style. Torre isn't even close to being on that level. A manager with a career winning percentage below .500 before coming to the Yankees -- when he managed the team with the highest payroll by far every season -- does not deserve to brag about being special. If anything, Torre's book should have been about how much he appreciates ESPN for building his reputation as a great manager. Without ESPN, the city of New York, the mystique of the Yankees, and the rivalry with Boston, Torre would be just another manager recycled through different franchises, never finding success until he's ultimately spit out of the Devil Rays organization into oblivion.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 20, 2007 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions

To be fair to Torre,

now that he is no longer winning WS after WS, he concedes that the playoffs are a crapshoot.

by rfloh on Oct 20, 2007 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: To be fair to Torre,

And I think he alluded to that in his press-conference the other day. He mentioned the possibility that if the Yanks hadn't had so much success earlier in his tenure, he may still have a job. But dumb Joe winning all those championships made expectations in NY too unrealistic and then 6 years later he can't live up to them. Idiot.

In all seriousness, Yankee fans should (and I think a good many of them do) appreciate how lucky they were to win so many titles in such a short period. MLB hasn't had the same team win the series twice since '01.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 20, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Torre is being paid $7M

The fact that the team didn't win despite the highest payroll might better be blamed on the GM than the manager. He's the one who went out shopping with the highest limit on his credit card but didn't come back with the best stuff.

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 19, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

hopefully, the Giants will give the Yankees permission to talk to Bruce Bochy...even if they don't ask for it.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 18, 2007 1:36 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Please god can it now just be over? I watched ESPNews after I got home from class last night, trying to wind down from a long day. The Torre saga and endless Red Sox babble was all they ran for TWENTY MINUTES. God. I wanted to take an ice pick to my own skull to make it stop.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 18, 2007 1:37 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

LOL. It's the Clemens saga all over again. We can't enough of it! Tell us more!

But seriously, good on Joe for telling them to go to hell. Must be nice to have made enough money to tell them to kiss your ass.

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 18, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Torre has always been one of the few things about the Yankees that hasn't annoyed me or pissed me off. He's handled the media hell, his horrible boss, and the ups and downs of managing a professional sports team all with tremendous grace. He's better than that mess, always has been.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 18, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

But this is important because the Red Sox and Yankees are going to meet in the World Series!

Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Oct 18, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Manny Ramirez's comments actually made me laugh out loud, in agreement! I think he might be sick of the BS himself and that's why he said it's not the end of the world if the Sux don't win the World Series. For once, Manny being Manny was pretty right on. And of course I'm having a ROFL Waffle at the Boston fans who are flipping their ish over those comments.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 18, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Totally agree, especially when you hear the entire quote.

He bascially said they're going to do their best to win. If they don't win, big deal, just try again next year.

Who'd have thought it would take a goofball like Ramirez to put things in proper perspective?

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 18, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

It's almost too zen for Manny.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 18, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

This type of complacent, hip-hop attitude is destroying baseball.

by zenbitz on Oct 18, 2007 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I thought Bud Selig was destroying baseball. Or maybe the wild card was.

SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Oct 18, 2007 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Why is this a "hip-hop attitude"?

by satyricrash on Oct 18, 2007 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

No kidding. It's the furthest thing from it. Just cuz the dude is a bit of a spectacle at times and wears his hair down.

It's ignorant beliefs like this that really have me wondering if we're ever going to move forward as a society.

Screw the Giants, but not Omar. I'm getting drunk and watching some footy.

by PacBellBoozer on Oct 20, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I guess winning can make a team complacent.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 18, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

rofl waffle...i feel pretty damn nerdy for laughing at that.

Merkin Valdez...... I swear he's still alive.

by peteisathug on Oct 18, 2007 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

You make them with the ROFL iron.

Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss: Not fascist: SF Dugout. Not boring nor fascist: CLE winning the World Series.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 19, 2007 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

That's not a ROFL, that's just a square PEBCAK. Sorry, Baron. The ROFL iron's in the shop.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2007 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Yankees Manager Search: Day 1...2...3...4...

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 18, 2007 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

+ a gazillion!!

even on the radio, every espn 20 minute update led off with "they haven't fired him yet"

I mean really

by Merope on Oct 18, 2007 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

He should have turned it down. It was a terrible offer. Really, just monumentally awful. Good for him.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 18, 2007 2:04 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I would have accepted.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 18, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I've always thought it would be cool to land an $8 million/year job like managing the Yankees and see how long I could last before they realized I had no idea what I was doing.

Make it through the first two months of the season, pocket a cool two million, and laugh all the way to the bank. "Suckas!"

Vote for Grant

by Goofus on Oct 18, 2007 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

yeah, seriously. How hard could it be to write that lineup card everyday, or make pitching changes?

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 18, 2007 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

not . . . at . . . all.

I manage little leaguers and i have to teach them and yell at them to run the right way. I'm pretty sure MLB players know the game pretty well.

I mean all bobby cox does is nap and yell.
which is awesome.

Pedro Feliz: Marginally better this year.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 18, 2007 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Exactly. And if you're having a bad day, just run out onto the field and unleash a nonsensical string of obscenities at an overweight dude in a dorky hat and you get the rest of the day off.

Best gig ever.

Sharlon Schoop: "It's only stealing if you get caught...more than 54% of the time"

by Woody Wins on Oct 18, 2007 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

You thought Felipe overused a bullpen?? You should have seen Torre in action. He was so bad that they had to give him a set of rules that he had to adhere to when they brought up prized rookie Joba Chamberlain in August. He wasn't allowed to pitch him two days in a row, and if he used him more than one inning he had to give him an extra day off for each inning. They were afraid that Torre would ruin him. And this was the guy who was making almost double what any other manager is making. I'm happy he left because he wants to manage again, and with a team that doesn't have a 225 million dollar budget he will be exposed.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 18, 2007 7:11 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I agree completely...Torre is a horrible game manager in my opinion. However, with the Yankees it was easy to overlook that because the team was so talented and he did an admirable job of handling the circus that comes with the Yankees. To me this is a lose-lose. Torre probably gets exposed with his next team and the Yankees lose one of the few managers who could effectively deal with both the New York media and the Yankees front office.

Rajai Davis: fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Oct 19, 2007 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

on the other hand, there's alot more to being the manager of the Yankees than just the game itself, and Torre handled that better than anyone else could. He was able to put up with front office meddling without losing his dignity, which is something that is near impossible to do. He was also all over the place making appearances for charities and whenever there was a catastrophe. It was almost like having a second mayor over here. He's actually quite an amazing man. We've had coaches and managers here like Isiah Thomas and Jeff Van Gundy who used to curse out charities and PR people who had the nerve to bother players when according to them they should have concentrating on their games. In fact, as I'm sure you all know, Isiah and the Knicks just had to pay 11.5 million dollars to one of the women he used to brutalize when she would ask a player to do some charity work. Torre never said no to any of that stuff and still continued to win. I hope they hire Joe Girardi and I eagerly wait for the first time one of the Steinbrenner sons comes into the locker room to criticize him and Girardi crams him inside a locker.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 19, 2007 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I'm a little surprised that sympathy seems to be falling either one of the two ways here. It seems like either "Steinbrenner is a crappy owner, good for nice guy Joe!" or "Joe's a crappy manager, NY has justifiably different expectations, and Steinbrenner was right to try to give him a paycut."

But it seems to me to be the right thing for bothe parties. Steinbrenner is justified to have higher expectations, but it's also unclear if anybody else could handle the circus. So he makes an attempt to bring back the status quo, but without the willingness to pay market price for it (which, fun enough, "market price" was set so high by him to begin with."

Also good for PR. Being able to say, "We tried to give him a contract" makes him look less evil, even if he never really expected Joe to take it. Kind of like the contract the A's extended to Tejada back in the day when he walked.

So it makes sense for George that if he's going to bring Joe back, he'd only do it at a discount and if he wasn't going to bring him back he had to make it look like he tried.

And for Joe, he was staring down an unreasonable paycut from his point of reference on a one year contract with stupid incentives. So by this contract a best case scenario would likely be that Torre is going through this same crap again at the end of next season. If he's going to take a paycut, he should at least have a few years of security behind it. So from his POV it's a deal that doesn't make sense to take.

So, good business by both guys, even if Steinbrenner is a public douche about it and Torre is a public saint.

Dave Righetti: You don't know him. / Read My Blog, Because I Write It

by howtheyscored on Oct 19, 2007 8:28 AM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

I don't think the Yankees' playoff failures are the fault of Joe Torre though. His job is to get them there, and he has been presented with a team that isn't really built for October. Since guys like Mussina, Unit, Clemens and Pettitte have gotten old, he's been forced to send guys out there for key playoff games that are past their primes, or stiff signings like Pavano or Jared Wright. He had a bunch of hitters who were clutch in October like Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez, and they've been replaced by the Giambis and the ARods, guys who have flashly numbers but always seem to come up short when it really counts. Those big bats carry you through the regular season, but in those short series you need to build runs, get a couple of clutch hits, and get that big starting pitching, and it always seems to be the other team that has those things. Look at those big bats on the Red Sox for example, and it's Josh Beckett that's practically keeping them alive single handedly. There's no Josh Beckett on the Yankees.

Joe Simpson:"I was told by a player that the hardest throwers he saw all year were Ubaldo Jimenez and RANDY MESSENGER"

by rxmeister on Oct 19, 2007 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions

So, what are you saying

That the Yankees won in the past because of Tino, O'Neill, and Saint Brosius? And not because of Captain Jeter and Torre? Captain Jeter is not clutch? Torre isn't some postseason genius? Then why keep him? Can't some other generic manager manager get them to the playoffs for less than $7M a year?

by rfloh on Oct 20, 2007 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

Cashman speaks Sabeanese also! Maybe it's a yankee thing...

"We certainly hope that they decide to come back," Cashman said. "At the end of the day we consider them Yankees and they will have an opportunity to remain part of the Yankees."

Fairley odd parent to Wendell...

by Mark carry on on Oct 19, 2007 12:56 PM PDT reply actions

Re: Joe Torre Turns Down Contract Extension

You know what? Perhaps it's time Joe decided it's better to call up Don Nelson and ask about real estate prices in Hawaii. 4 titles and 12 straight times in the playoffs ain't chopped liver, so if he played it smart he'd go off and spend his evenings checking out sunsets.

I can't stand Steinbrenner anyhow, so thinking of how the Boss (no, not Bruce Springsteen, dolt) must be simmering in his own juices is good enough for me. Now imagine a few years of Pirate-like production and that old coot would never leave Tampa.

The Johnnie LeMaster fan club vice-president. E6 Forever!

by Van Smack on Oct 19, 2007 1:16 PM PDT reply actions