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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

Open Fifth Starter Thread

It would seem like a good time for fifth starter discussion would be when pitchers and catchers report to camp. The alternatives today, though, would all entail complaining about Mark McGwire not getting in the Hall of Fame. Boring stuff, to be sure. So.....

Brad Hennessey

When he was moved to the bullpen last season, his velocity jumped by a couple of miles. That might have been a hot gun, or it might have been unrelated to the role change. Whatever the case, it can only reinforce the idea that Hennessey is destined for relief. He throws a good sinking fastball, an occassionally effective slider, and not much else. I have no idea why he's still considered a rotation candidate. He was much better last year as a reliever, and his profile has pointed toward relief since the day he was drafted.

Jonathan Sanchez

It's popular in some circles to break a young pitching prospect in with some indentured bullpen time, but I don't think a large-scale study has ever been done on the subject. Without any hard data, it doesn't seem right to point at Johan Santana and declare the strategy to be infalliable. The Giants could really, really use a hard-throwing, late-innings lefty for their bullpen, though. That would tempt me, and I while I'm rooting for Sanchez to win the rotation spot, he doesn't exactly have a full arsenal of pitches either.

Kevin Correia

Issues with iffy control can be minimized in the bullpen, and that's how Correia found some success last season. Like Sanchez and Hennessey, Correia has made a much better reliever in his short career than a starter.

Tim Lincecum

It messes up his service time (he'd be eligible for arbitration earlier) and it is goofy to jump young pitchers straight up from A-ball, but if Lincecum averages 15 strikeouts this spring would the Giants have a choice? There are plenty of other options, so they most certainly would have a choice. I'd rail against the decision, and be glued to every Lincecum start.

Russ Ortiz

It'd be perfect for Ortiz to come back to a team that he starred for; he'd have a great chance to be a league-average starter, and signing him would raise fan interest for sure. I'm just not sure that San Jose has room in their rotation.

The Jamey Wright Dark Horse Candidate Memorial Award winner if he signs, this idea would almost make sense in the right organization. If Sabean had any track record of trading overperforming veterans for something the team actually needs at the break, there might be some upside to taking a chance on Ortiz. But two pitching-starved franchises took a look at Ortiz, and wanted nothing to do with him this offseason -- one of those teams was the freaking Royals. A division rival had him on the roster, but preferred to pay him scores of millions to not pitch rather than pay him to pitch. His velocity is up in 15 winter league innings? Oh, sweet. You can file that with Lance Niekro's commitment to plate discipline last offseason.

Sun Woo Kim

Brian Cooper. That's a fun game. Let's try it again.

Sun Woo Kim

Brian Powell. One more time.

Sun Woo Kim

Jamey Wright. Okay, I'm done with the emergency eighth starter word association game. The problem is that the last guy actually won the job last season. There's no problem with having former prospects in AAA, though. And whenever I see a former prospect still struggling as a starter at age 28, I wonder if there would be a chance for him to increase velocity coming out of the bullpen. He isn't going to make an impact on the big club this year, so it's kind of a moot point.

To recap:

Will probably make better relievers in the long-term - Hennessey, Sanchez, Correia

Not quite ready, though a dominant spring could change that mindset- Lincecum

Whatever - Sun Woo Kim

"But then I thought, 'When am I ever going to be in Haiti again?'" - Russ Ortiz

Based on nothing but last year, I'd go with Sanchez, but it's early yet.

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I'd be open to the following:
Best of these go to the 5th starter:
Hennessey
Correia
Sanchez
Lincecum
Moss (if the stuff about his stuff being better stuff isn't just stuff and it's true)
Ortiz (if he goes 0.00 ERA in a large role in ST)

And basically, for all of them but Lincecum, if their stuff is better than some of the bullpenners (Benitez, Chulk, Kline, Hennessey, Correia, and Sanchez are protected to being on the roster and add Worrell if he's healthy) then they go in the pen and players like Misch, Wilson, Munter, Taschner, and Cortes go into the minors.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 9, 2007 2:41 PM PST reply actions  

A vote for Sanchez is a vote for America
Or the Dominican. Whatever.

I want Sanchez in there and I believe the Giants organization wants him in there too. Why would they have sent him down to Fresno to work on his stamina last season if they didn't plan on using him in the rotation? Have they pulled the plug on that experiment already?

It's hard to not want him in the bullpen for the reasons Grant listed. If Sanchez makes the rotation that makes three lefties, with Lowry and Zito in there too. Is there anything overwhelmingly good/bad to be said about being loaded with left-handed starters?

SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 9, 2007 2:52 PM PST reply actions  

Re: A vote for Sanchez is a vote for America
Good question about lefties. In general I think this is overrated, since lefties generally don't make it as starters if they can't get righty hitters out. Give me five good starters and I won't care which hand they use.

The only possible problem... unless lefties are adept at hitting the outside corner (like Woody in his prime), they lose a lot of the benefit of AT&T Park, since the park generally plays fair to righty power hitters.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jan 9, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: A vote for Sanchez is a vote for America
I want Sanchez in there too. I've always thought of him as a starter, and if this isn't the year to give him the shot, I don't know when is. We certainly don't need two first year starters in '08 (that would be Sanchez and Linc, if Sanchez hits the bullpen).

I like the bullpen, but he played plenty there last year and it can only do so much to get you ready for starting (in the bullpen you never see the same batter twice in one game... etc.). Get him in there now while we have the open spot and plenty of experience the rest of the way up! Signing Zito should have made it safer to go with a first year starter at the back of the rotation with Hennessorreia (preferably, Correia) as backup.

But barring Sanchez, I would hope that Correia got a chance to start because he does have the best chance at being decent, and I'm a "Correia for bullpen!"-ite, so that's got to be saying something.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 9, 2007 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

"two first year starters in '08"
So who do you think is going to lose a rotation spot in 2008?  Zito, Cain, Lowry, or Morris?

by Nick Schulte on Jan 9, 2007 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it would have to be Lowry or Morris, but...
You know, that's an awfully good point.

To change my tack to adjust for my original oversight, wouldn't keeping Sanchez in the bullpen this year with the idea that he is still a starter in the making force him back to the bullpen in '08 when Linc gets the inevitable ROY attempt?

So we either see what Sanchez can do this year or put him on the burner for two? Yikes, that's not an idea I like a whole heck of a lot.

And if Sanchez doesn't wow us this year, back to the bullpen permanently to make room for Linc. If he does wow us, it creates a situation where Morris or Lowry (though I hate to say it for Lowry) get packaged in an offseason trade, I suppose... it's hard for me to start thinking that far ahead... but if either Morris or Lowry has a rebound in '07, somebody will give young talent for them. One year of Morris coming off of an on year should get something, and Lowry always has value with his contract as long as he's pitching remotely well.

And if either of them really really sucks and Sanchez wows, there's always the outright release or something.

Like I said, I'm not so good at thinking that far ahead, and there must be something flawed about what I'm proposing now because I'm kind of playing it by ear, and those kinds of things usually aren't flawless. But I'm still not sure what good it does to keep Sanchez in the bullpen for the next two years unless that's really where we want him anyway. Is that really where we want him anyway?

I don't, personally.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 9, 2007 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Well, it would have to be Lowry or Morris, but
If all goes right for the Giants pitchers, either Lowry or Sanchez eventually gets traded.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Jan 11, 2007 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I want Sanchez to spend the year in the bullpen. But I know that if he excels there he'll be stuck there forever. Hmpf.

by Evan on Jan 9, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Didn't he spend plenty of time in the bullpen last year? There's only so much that pitching relief can teach a guy about starting at the ML level.

It seems to me that with Lincecum due to make his debut in '08, it's ideal to give Sanchez his now so we don't have two at the same time...

I don't know. I like JS too much considering he's still pretty likely to be a complete bust.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 9, 2007 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I have a concern about Jonathan's durability as a starter.  His motion appears vulnerable to me (in contradistinction to Timmy Lincecum's).

So even though I like Jonathan as a starter and dreaded how the Giants jerked his chain last year from starter to reliever back to starter, I think he career value may best be served by pitching out of the bullpen.

While the Giants certainly didn't pay Barry Zito $126 million to close, Barry has an incredible and intriguing 1.93 career ERA the first time through the lineup.

I hope I'm wrong about Jonathan's arm vulnerability and that he makes it as a starter.  Having three southpaw starters plus Matt Cain and Lincecum would be outstanding.  But go to www.calleaguers.com and find the scouting report on Jonathan.  At the bottom of the scouting report is a video of him from September, 2005.  Compare that video with the one of Timmy Lincecum there, and see which arm YOU think is being more threatened.

In Timmy's delivery, it appears as if his body is the stem of a whip and his arm merely snaps through, as the tip of a whip follows the base.  Jonathan seems to throw a lot with his shoulder.

by sharksrog on Jan 11, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
You could have just said "Bad Idea Jeans", but you came strong with the Haiti quote. It's this sort of extra effort that separates you from the pack.

I think the jury is still out on Correia's ability as a starter, and I would give him one more chance at it before making him a reliever permanently. Sounds like the Giants don't even consider him a candidate anymore, however, so I'll vote for Sanchez.

I'd prefer Jamey Wright to the rest of the Jamey Wright types, including Damian Moss. This isn't saying much... I'd prefer Pat Misch to Jamey Wright.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jan 9, 2007 3:02 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I would prefer Al Bundy to Jamie Wright. Jamie Writhe and the other girlie flipper, Scott Munter are a waste of Barry Bonds Recliner Space.
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 9, 2007 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I have to echo the kudos for the Haiti quote. Orders of magnitude funnier than simply saying "Bad Idea Jeans". I sometimes marvel at how people choose the funniest possible phrase for a situation. My favorite example is the Simpsons when Lisa has Apu's incredibly spicy Indian food. What do the Simpsons writers have her say at this point?:

"I can see through time!"

I, of course, would've gone with something like, "Man, that's spicy!"

by clevername on Jan 9, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Let's not overlook that a guy named PANTS MAN liked the Haiti quote over the jeans joke. That's when you step back and say, wow, Grant is really good.
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Jan 10, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I'd like to know how much it would take to pry Bert Blyleven out from behind the microphone in Minnesota for a one-year deal.  He could pick up the 13 victories he needs to suddenly became a lock for the Hall of Fame (hey, even Ryan Jensen could win 13 once), and we could compare Lincecum's curveball to the Genuine Article.  

That failing, my vote is for Hennessey, at least at the start.  Sanchez, to me, is still a little too raw and unknown.  The guy didn't even start playing baseball till he was 13!  I can't imagine yo-yoing around across three levels and two positions (starter and reliever) was a help to him.  I say let Hennessey do his thing for a little while and see how it works out.  Start Sanchez at AAA for a little more seasoning.  Make the switch when it's necessary.  

As for the rest of the list, well...I had an elementary school teacher fond of saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."  So, uhh...[cricket, cricket, tumbleweed]

There are a bunch of guys out there looking for new teams who I would compare to Taco Bell meat.  Sure, it's Grade-D; but even so it's good enough for college kids.  I'd say our best option for the 5th starter role is probably not yet on the roster, and I get the feeling Sabean is still trolling.  We'll see.

by candymanhackman on Jan 9, 2007 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
With the mediocre team we have, the unknowns add a little excitement in the sense that just maybe... they'll be the difference maker. The break-out guy who takes us over the top. The one you watch with anticipation because he's the underdog. We have so many of those guys on the club errrrr or not. So Sanchez gives a little of that excitement of the unknown, he's got my vote at this early juncture. However, comebacks are always a feel good story so I'd be happy with Ortiz or Moss if they earn the job in the spring and aren't signed so we're stuck with watching their anticipated mundane fitting in so nicely on this team of mediocre. I'd also be interested to see a Minch or some other unknown perform well in the spring, and as Candaymanhackman points out, the unknown can even Jensen for a season. Hoping I don't have to duck but I wouldn't hate to see Wright back as a reliever; his sinker was unhittable when he had control and he usually did for the first few innings. As Peter Gammons points out in his Insider article on Dec. 17th, closers come from weird places and often times are flashes in the night;there are only 4 closers averaging 35+ saves for 3 years or more in the game. He also points to Jenks who's minor league ERA's were 7.86, 5.27, 4.82, 8.76, 19.64, and 8.10. He's got a ring and 41 saves now and he's certainly not Armando. Just maybe we have an unknown closer as well.  Let's hope for the unknowns.

by Giant Escape on Jan 9, 2007 3:24 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I feel a little ashamed for asking (and being interested), but has Jamie Wright even signed anywhere else yet?

Why not take another flyer on him?

Yeah, he sucks, but I promise you he's better than Sunny Kim.  And you always want tall dudes for fights.

by dangjackson on Jan 9, 2007 3:30 PM PST reply actions  

N
O
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 9, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
He is not a dude you want around for a fight. Besides pitchers are always sent to the perimeter of the scrum, to protect them from getting their hands stepped on. This is taught starting in T-ball
Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 9, 2007 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Free Verse for a Free Agent. (Okay, Cheap Verse.)
In a Fight

Jamie Wright

throws (a Right)

Like a Girl.

by Moggeee on Jan 10, 2007 2:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I think Sanchez will get the spot, but I wouldn't mind going with Correia. While Grant may be correct that he will be better out of the pen, he has the stuff to be a starter in this league. He's never been given a chance to start on a regular basis and has shown enough flashes of brilliance to merit another look.
My VORP is higher than your VORP.

by Poe on Jan 9, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I'll go with Ortiz because the Giants just signed him to a one year contract, major league minimum, according to Henry Shulman.
"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jan 9, 2007 3:47 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
I think we are so far away from even being close that we might as well be discussing next years BCS rankings.

Personally I'm going with

USC
Michigan
UCLA
FSU
Florida
LSU
Temple
Tampa Bay
Norwich
Dillon Panthers

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 9, 2007 4:10 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
¿Que? UCLA third... no Cal? Come on, losing Hughes and Lynch can't hurt that much...

At least you got the Panthers on there. It's about time that program got a little respect.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 9, 2007 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
"I have no idea why he's still considered a rotation candidate."

Oh, Grant - say it again, will you?

"I have no idea why he's still considered a rotation candidate."

Thank you. I really wish someone in the front office could just permanently disable the S key whenever Hennessey's position was up for consideration. RP works just fine, or even DFA...

Interesting on Correia's success last year. I would have liked to see him be given a shot, but maybe we should just build on his bullpen success. Top choice: Sanchez. Distant second: A magically restored Ortiz.  

by BigO on Jan 9, 2007 4:39 PM PST reply actions  

DFA Hennessey?
Somewhere I saw he did have a ~3.50 ERA from the 'pen.  And about half his innings this year he spent as a reliever.  So it's not like he's not useful at all.
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 9, 2007 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: DFA Hennessey?
Okay, DFA is an overreaction - I'll give you that. However, I just looked at BP's stats on Batting Average for Balls in Play (BABIP), and it goes some way to confirming my feeling that Hennessey is often lucky at best out there. Hitters averaged .256 against him on balls they hit into play (not HRs), while the league average is apparently about .290. These numbers usually regress to the mean, so... chances are that many more struck balls will drop in against Hennessey next year. Put that together with an even K/BB, and you get a pitcher who might best get most of his innings in in the spring.

by BigO on Jan 10, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Just started reading your blog, thanks for all the hard work. Got this email alert about an hour ago:
"
Giants sign free-agent pitcher Russ Ortiz

Adding a veteran arm in the form of a familiar face, the San Francisco Giants have signed free-agent right-handed pitcher Russ Ortiz to a one-year contract for the 2007 season, club Senior Vice President and General Manager Brian Sabean announced today.
"

Scratchin my head over this one.

by ckrehel on Jan 9, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply actions  

A real treat for you viewers at home
Your itch is only a prelude to the frightening prospect of Russ this year constantly scratching his ass between pitches.

by Moggeee on Jan 10, 2007 2:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Ortiz' Spot To Lose
Since they signed him to a major league deal, even if it's the major league minimum, the #5 spot is his to lose.  Recent Giants history tells us that if he has even a halfway decent spring training, he'll get the job.

In a way, that's a bit encouraging since it also means that all things being equal, the Giants would prefer that Lincecum and Sanchez start the season in the minors.  IMO, that's where they both should start.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 9, 2007 5:41 PM PST reply actions  

Or the want..
Sanchez in the bullpen...
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 9, 2007 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Totally agreed
I'd like to see Sanchez and Lincecum get a full year of starting in in Fresno.

While I think they could both be very helpful out of the pen, I think its more important to make sure they can be solid in the rotation in '08.

I for one would love to see Russ have his stuff back and earn the spot. Always liked the guy, and if he can pitch again, he'd be a lot of fun to root for.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Jan 10, 2007 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Ortiz' Spot To Lose
Agreed Dr. B.  With Ortiz taking the 5th spot, Giants can shore up their bullpen with Correia, Hennessey and Sanchez.

This season the Giants appear ready to build their bullpen from failed starters, rather than experienced FA relievers.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Jan 11, 2007 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
If Ortiz can keep his ERA under 5.00, I love him as 5th starter. It pushes Sanchez back to the pen, where the Giants badly need a second "proven" lefty. Plus, Sanchez seemed much, much more dominant working in relief. I was gobbersmacked last year when the Giants sent Sanchez, of the sub-2.00 ERA, back to Fresno to be "converted" to a starer, at the very time the bullpen was struggling the most.

Despite all our raging optimism concerning Sanchez in the rotation, he pretty much blew chunks as a starter last year, and excelled as a reliever. Limited sample size, yes, but I don't think there is a hidden mystery to be discovered here. Sanchez, Correia, and Hennessey are all better out of the pen than as startes. Period.

With Ortiz most likely as fifth starter and Sanchez presumably in relief, now if Misch or Tachner make the big squad, it will be based on pure performance and not just "left handedness." Although I'm sure lefty/righty match-up aficianado Bochy would prefer 3 lefties and 4 righties in his pen, all things considered.

===

Zito-Cain-Lowry-Morris-Ortiz.

Benitez-Worrell-Kline-Sahchez-Hennessey-Correia... and in order of likelihood...

Wilson? Sadler? Tachner? Munter? Cortes? Misch? Moss? Kim?

And on the seventh day, the LORD created Tim Linecum.

Pitching depth is good, because it seems like someone on the staff is inevitably injured, but I smell a trade... or a pretty damn fine and alarmingly veteran Fresno staff. Geez, with the Giants, even the farm team features vets.

by Kid Fresh on Jan 9, 2007 6:23 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
You forgot Chulk.

So with Benitez:
Benitez-Worrell-Kline-Sanchez-Hennessey-Correia-Chulk

Without Benitez:
Worrell-Kline-Sanchez-Hennessey-Correia-Chulk-????

Witout Benitez and Worrell:
Kline-Sanchez-Hennessey-Correia-Chulk-????-????

I think Wilson and Sadler are the most likely of the question mark group.

by Nick Schulte on Jan 9, 2007 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I think..
It's more likely that Worrell will not be in the bullpen than Benitez will not be in the bullpen.  Benitez will be there.  Worrell will if he's healthy.
Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 9, 2007 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I think..
Agreed...but does anyone else find it weird that we've heard not one peep about Worrell's condition? There have been updates every couple of months about Matheny (none of which have been encouraging) but apparently Worrell is recuperating in Dick Cheney's secret underground bunker.
You're nobody 'til everybody in
this town thinks you're a bastard - Elvis Costello

by EliminateMe on Jan 10, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: I think..
Well, that was definitely a good call.

by Nick Schulte on Jan 10, 2007 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: I think..
Nick, I agree with your last version of the Giant's bullpen.  One way or another, I doubt Benitez will be there.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

by GiantJim on Jan 11, 2007 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Thanks, Nick. I believe that's the second time I've omitted Chulk from a pretty thorough pitching analysis. "My bad" as all the youngsters are saying today.

by Kid Fresh on Jan 9, 2007 8:35 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Dirty Sanchez
I think Sanchez has to be the front-runner and obvious choice.  But as a Dodger fan, I hope that somehow Russ Ortiz wins a spot in the Giants rotation.

Also keep in mind that pitchers in general have better stats as relief pitchers than as starters.  They tend to have much higher K rates as relief pitchers, which in turn lowers their ERA by around 1.00

vr, Xei

Go Dodgers!

by Xeifrank on Jan 9, 2007 8:51 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Sanchez is the obvious choice (his job to lose).  But as a Dodger fan I hope the nod goes to Russ Ortiz.   vr, Xei
Go Dodgers!

by Xeifrank on Jan 9, 2007 11:26 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
So, do you hope that Russ Ortiz gets the spot in the rotation?
LicenseToPills: barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

by Natto on Jan 10, 2007 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Ortiz
Not sure why you are pulling for Ortiz.  I assume you think he's nota good pitcher anymore and having him in the Giants rotation will help the Dodgers.  Well, if he's still terrible, he probably won't win the job.  If he does win the job, it probably means the adjustments he's made are  for real.  If I were you, I'd rather have a rookie who's shown shaky control in there than a seasoned veteran like Ortiz who's found his stuff again.  Ortiz is a veteran of several playoff teams and has pitched in the WS.  If he has his stuff back, he will be a huge help to this team.

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 10, 2007 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Open Fifth Starter Thread
Why stop at Russ Ortiz, Damian Moss & Tyler Walker who are all coming back to spring training? Why not also invite Danny Darwin, Don Robinson, Mike LaCoss & Kirk Rueter? I can't figure out if Sabean is doing this on purpose to yank our chains or what.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 10, 2007 8:50 AM PST reply actions  

And Krukow
don't forget 20 game winner Mike Krukow.
Ha Ha! Armando's the new Meg!

by The Balls of Summer on Jan 10, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

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