File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

It's hard to believe such a one-sided deal could happen. To sweeten the deal for the Marlins, how about we also offer to throw in Joe Fontento and Mike Villano, again?

Waiting for Nate, Marcus, Nick, & Emmanuel

by Lyle @ McCovey Chronicles on Jan 4, 2007 8:51 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I say we offer them Feliz, as well. They just have to throw in cabrera.

Feliz, Benitez and 10 million for Cabrera.

Sounds fair to me.

by positiveuphemism on Jan 4, 2007 9:11 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Oh yeah...and a bag of peanuts.

by positiveuphemism on Jan 4, 2007 9:12 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I always liked the bag of baseballs.

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jan 4, 2007 9:37 AM PST up reply actions

Complementary Bags

Let me see if I understand this:

So we give them a bag of baseballs, plus Armando, who is equivalent to a bag of hammers.

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Complementary Bags

I am willing to also throw in FP Santangelo.

by Legend In My Own Mind on Jan 4, 2007 3:05 PM PST up reply actions

Be specific, please

Throw him in the Deal?

Or throw him in the Bay?

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Be specific, please

As long as we don't have a FP and Bip duo in the booth next year I can live with Deal or Bay.

by Legend In My Own Mind on Jan 4, 2007 6:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Which, if coupled with this tidbit from today's SF Chron, would make Brian Wilson is our closer.

The Giants remain open to trading Benitez, but recognize he will not attract serious interest until he pitches in spring training and proves his arthritic right knee is strong enough. Asked if he thought either Benitez or Brian Wilson would be the Giants' Opening Day closer, Sabean said, "I would think so."

(My 1st try at the "block quote" thingy.)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/01/04/SPGFENCO4F1.DTL

(one of these days, I'll do the "clean link" thingy.)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 9:13 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Baby steps, sir. Baby steps. Y'know, like Benitez not sucking for two whole batters in a row.

Not that I'm comparing you to Benitez. I wouldn't compare my worst enemy to Armando Benitez.

by Skaldheim on Jan 4, 2007 9:15 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

What if Benitez is yoiur worst enemy?

"I want to dip my balls in it." Louie

by MeSoKrabby on Jan 4, 2007 9:36 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Then comparisons aren't necessary. You can go straight to the insults and derision.

by Skaldheim on Jan 4, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions

Quit Fiddling Around

You guys are wasting time.

I'm going to check out Goofus' dirty link.

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Finally a deal I don't automatically hate.

SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 4, 2007 9:18 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Pardon me, but what's the downside of this deal? We get rid of Benitez, they pay some of his salary, and we get a player in return? It sounds like the Marlins are still in a holiday giving mood. Brian, pick up the phone and say "YES"!

yob

by Sayhey on Jan 4, 2007 9:25 AM PST reply actions

Seal this Deal

Say Yes.

Send Prospects.

Send Chocolates.

Send Hookers.

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:11 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I totally agree. I just posted this comment on another blog.

If we could get a real prospect like Petit and dump Buttmando with Florida taking on $1M to $2M of his salary, my question is what the hell is Sabean waiting for?"

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 9:27 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Bill Bavasi is running the Marlins now? Awesome!

by Evan on Jan 4, 2007 9:29 AM PST reply actions

Heh heh

Well played.

by Kitspool on Jan 4, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Too good to be true. Therefore it isn't.

by achiappanza on Jan 4, 2007 9:33 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Anyone one of you prospect hounds have a scouting report on Petit? I know he's a starter and had limited time on the big team last year. Would he jump to the front of the line as the #5 starter, be a bullpen guy or need more seasoning in AAA? Thanks.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 9:38 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

IIRC, Petit's been one of those guys who's divided alot of the propsect community the last few years. Scouts are underwhelmed by his pedestrian stuff, but stat heads love his performance peripherals. He's a "show me you can do it at the next level" kind of guy who's posted tremendous K-rates with below average stuff (scouts do concede he hides the ball well in his delivery). Could slot in as back of the rotation starter of long-relief.

by Roger on Jan 4, 2007 9:54 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Roger is right about the K/IP rate being very high for Petit, that is until last year, when it declined a fair amount, both in the minors and the majors.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Yusmeiro-Petit.shtml

Petit still qualifies as a prospect given his limited MLB playing time. We'll find out tomorrow if he still makes the Marlins top 10 list.

Here is part of what BA wrote a year ago when they rated him as the #2 prospect in the Mets top 10 (prior to being included in the Carlos Delgado trade):

Background: Petit continues to dominate with stuff that is typically deemed ordinary....
Strengths: Petit's four-pitch attack plays up because of his above-average command and deception. Some grade his 88-90 mph fastball as a plus because of its movement and his ability to hide the ball well....
Weaknesses: ... While he mows down righthanders, he struggled in 2005 against lefties who slugged .525 against him. At 6-feet and 230 pounds, he must watch his weight.
The Future: Petit's numbers suggest a frontline starter, but his raw stuff profiles him toward the back of a rotation....

From MinorLeagueSplits.com, here are Yusmeiro Petit's 2006 splits in the minors:
Vs RHB: .251/.295/.447
Vs LHB: .286/.317/.518
That difference looks more manageable. He did have a huge difference, though, in his K/9 rate, although almost no difference in his BABIP. At the same time, he also had a much higher G/F against LHB than against RHB.

by steve S on Jan 4, 2007 10:22 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

So could we possibly make this a pound for pound trade, and then figure out the value of the difference and give them money for that?

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

That's what I remember about Yusmeiro Petit. The Mets had him rated number two on their prospect list and hated to include him in the Delgado trade. However when I saw him pitch last year I wasn't impressed. Then again, you couldn't be less impressive than Armando has been with the Giants. I wouldn't mind Bochy attempting to work his magic with Benitez, but Benitez wants out and who wants a player that doesn't want to be here?? As for the Chron article, when did we sign Sunny Kim?? No big press conference?? I guess Sabean was impressed by the one game he pitched against them when he lost to Jonathan Sanchez. I might add that Felipe used his "day game after a night extra inning game" lineup in that game. I guess Sabean didn't notice. I saw the game and kept expecting them to knock him out on ten different occasions, but he got through five innings. Sabean was probably also impressed by his 12.51 ERA. Jamey Wright is starting to look damn good!! And what's with Russ Ortiz continuing to dictate his signing terms?? First he wants a guaranteed 40 man spot, and now he refuses to close. (not that him being a closer is a very smart move) And yet the Giants keep talking to him!! How much are you willing to bet he gets exactly what he wants??

by rxmeister on Jan 4, 2007 10:56 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I've said this before, but if we could get a bag of garden mulch in return for Buttmando, we should make the deal. Getting Petit would be the steal of the century....even if he blew out his arm in the very first outing.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Wait we have Sunny Kim?

SFDugout: it's where all the cool kids go.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 4, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Where did you come across the information that Benitiez doesn't want to be here? I thought everything got smoothed over when Bochy called him.

by allfrank on Jan 4, 2007 12:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Actually, Bochy never "got ahold of him" when or if he tried to call. Armando was down in the Caribbean generally making himself unavailable. All of the reports on talk between the Giants and Marlins have mentioned Benitez talking to friends about wanting to return to Florida. It seems his agent is the source for some if not all the talk.

by Roger on Jan 4, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions

Text of Bochy's Touching Phone Message to Benitez

"Hey, Mando, you are a beautiful person. And thanks for that fat pitch on July 23. I think it got me a job up here."

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Thanks Roger and Steve, that was very helpful. I'm kinda picturing a young Ortiz; rhp, kinda chunky, deceptive hidden fb...is that a fair assessment?

If he were a Giant, do would you guys rank him somewhere between 4 and 7 on our prospect list? (I'm doubting he'd rank higher than Lincecum, Villalona or Sanchez, right?)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 11:50 AM PST up reply actions

Again if you use C+ and Sickel's ratings..

He'd be from 8 - 18.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 1:25 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Ortiz with less FB and a worse body, but better control and stats.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions

Just checking at John Sickels..

He recently rated him at a C+ Grade which would put him 11-18 in the Marlins organization.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 1:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Just checking at John Sickels..

As I say, opinion's extremely divided. I've seen some new lists (Baseball Digest Daily, Top Prospect) that have him listed in the 50-80 range in their Top 100 prospects, while most lists are putting Sanchez in the 98 range. So in theory he'd slot in at 3-4 in the Giants system, probably no worse than 6.

by Roger on Jan 4, 2007 1:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

OhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpl easeohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohpleaseOhpleaseohpleaseohplease.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 9:55 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Petit is a top flight prospect that is almost ready for a major league starting position. He struggles a little with control as most youngsters do, but he has a tremendous upside. He would go right to the top of the Giants prospect list and would probably win the #5 starter job right now.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 9:58 AM PST reply actions

To the Top?

Even higher than Tim Lincecum,or did you mean to the top in a more general sense?

by DrBGiantsfan on Jan 4, 2007 10:35 AM PST up reply actions

Re: To the Top?

He is more advanced than Lincecum in his development. Eventually, Lincecum should pass him by.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 10:56 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I can't believe that everybody is so down on Armando. I mean, he did his job, didn't he?

by biff pocoroba on Jan 4, 2007 10:10 AM PST reply actions

Very nice example of...

Deadpan sarcasm. I cried, then I laughed. Well done. (I refuse to believe you are serious. That would lead to more crying in my 3/4 of a cubicle)

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Jan 4, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Very nice example of...

Nice to see that the "I did my job" quote make it to Bennitz' Wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Ben%C3%ADtez

by biff pocoroba on Jan 4, 2007 2:30 PM PST up reply actions

Let us Fervently Pray

that no one in the Marlins' front office knows how to Google.

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Very nice example of...

Meanwhile, Yesmeiro Petit's wiki entry claims that his name is French for "your mother is small".

Mom and Dad went to San Francisco and all I got was this stupid baseball team

by VidaWantsYourCar on Jan 4, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions

Zito starts

Benitez closes
Now that's Symmetry Baby !!

With Barry back, what could go wrong?

by Rusty the Mechanical Man on Jan 4, 2007 10:15 AM PST reply actions

Re: Zito starts

It would be more symmetrical if Barry changed his last name to Zetineb.

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Jan 4, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

If the Giants are willing to wait, this could happen. Right now, I am praying that Goomando comes to spring training and has a strong early spring. Do I think this will happen? I would give it about a 50% chance.

by out machine on Jan 4, 2007 10:23 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Why wait for this to happen? Say he pitches like crap in Spring Training...then what? I say we throw that fatty off the ship right now like.

Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Jan 4, 2007 12:12 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

I think the only way a trade like this happens is if Mando can prove some worth in Spring training. I think that maybe that's what out machine was saying, as well.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

"Say he pitches like crap in Spring Training...then what?"

That's exactly why the Marlins won't make the deal right now. They want to wait until they see what he's got left.

by English Professor on Jan 4, 2007 2:07 PM PST up reply actions

File under: I'llbelieveitwhenithappens

don't get your hopes up

We'd be pretty good if we didn't suck so bad.

by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 4, 2007 11:32 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Yea, that's what worries me.

What if Benitez goes into Spring Training and pitches horrendously like last year when he had a 23.48 ERA? The fat lop gave up 21 runs in 7.2 innings!!! Good luck pulling off this trade if that happens.

I've been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder ever since Game 6.

by April3rdLifeBegins on Jan 4, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

The trade seems like a win-win-win for the Giants. No more Benigntez, much of his salary erased from the books, and another top pitching prospect!
The Marlins must still be swimming in the pool of delusion!

Hell, I'd get get rid of Benigntez for a couple of shingles for my roof and a six pack of Gatorade (flavor to be named later).

BTW: Is it possible that the Giants could have the majors' next Big 3/4 in their starting rotation????

Giants for now, for life...

by The Eliezer on Jan 4, 2007 11:38 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Any guesses as to this "industry source"? How about Benitez's aunt Maria, who will say anything to get her favorite nephew back to Miami so she can feed him her homemade pork stew three nights a week?

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Jan 4, 2007 11:54 AM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohbese

I think you mean three times per meal. Time to cut bait really. At some point you have to decide that he is a total wreck and falls under the term unsalvagable in insurance company parlence. If the Marlins, Nats or the Dixie Peaches for that matter can use spit and chewing gum to get some miles out of his useless carcass; so be it.

Time to move on.

Now.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 4, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions

Our torches are sputtering in the offseason

Yes, I see it.

I see the difference in you.

You are so, well, reasonable about this. But during the regular season I distinctly recall your mood was a tad harsher.

As in, Swift Death is too good for this AntiChrist.

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Our torches are sputtering in the offseason

Ah you are so right Mogg-Triple E. I am saving my energy for on-field pecadillos, pop-ups, and punch-outs. I look forward to yet another season in the McCoven Open Gameday Thread Luxury Suites coloring the ether cobalt blue with language that has yet to eminate even from hell.

I can hear it now.

Kruk: "Well, Kuip, it looks like Armando is warming up down in the pen getting ready for his first appearance of 07."

Kuip: "It will be interesting to see how the fans over in the Cove react to the big guy following the offseason"

Load Roar from the Coven: *(@#---#$^@Q$#&(@$&#&****hole00s0-f77l -mmmmm a8iarfratz sucker..8er blat. kashrmartz,!!!

Kruk: HEH HEH! Yeah Kuip, the season is official now!

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 4, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions

All wrong

There will be no loud roar, just a polite invitation for a complimentary pair of shoes. Custom fit, 100%, cement shoes.

Either that, or the clicking sound of a magazone snapping into place.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 5:21 PM PST up reply actions

All wrong

There will be no loud roar, just a polite invitation for a complimentary pair of shoes. Custom fit, 100%, cement shoes.

Either that, or the clicking sound of a magazone snapping into place.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 7:48 PM PST up reply actions

Re: All wrong

Don't know why, but it's so much funnier when Walrus says it.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2007 7:56 AM PST up reply actions

All wrong

There will be no loud roar, just a polite invitation for a complimentary pair of shoes. Custom fit, 100%, cement shoes.

Either that, or the clicking sound of a magazine snapping into place.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 5:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: All wrong

There will be no loud roar, just a polite invitation for a complimentary pair of shoes. Custom fit, 100%, cement shoes.

Either that, or the clicking sound of a magazone snapping into place.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 7:52 PM PST up reply actions

Re: All wrong

I'll take that response as an offer to help me dispose of the carcass.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 7:56 PM PST up reply actions

Re: All wrong

I'm in, but I don't have a car so I'll need a ride.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 8:38 PM PST up reply actions

Re: All wrong

Don't know why, but it's so much funnier when howtheyscored says it.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2007 7:56 AM PST up reply actions

Reasons

1.) I am rarely intentionally funny
and
2.) I have a weird sense of humor. For example, I find Hudson Hawk hilarious.[And Army of Darkness, but who doesn't?]

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 5, 2007 10:34 AM PST up reply actions

Re: Our torches are sputtering in the offseason

His first appearance isn't complete until Jon Miller names "his friend" 'Mando as the player of the game on the post-game wrap...all while the McCoven faithful, Kruk, Kuip, Flem, FP, Renel, and Bip laugh under their breath.

I'm soooooooooooo looking forward to laying into this fat piece of shite when he blows his 2007 save opportunities and blames it on the gold glove shortstop playing behind him.

Hats for bats, keep bats warm !

by PacBellBoozer on Jan 4, 2007 5:58 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Our torches are sputtering in the offseason

And THAT'S when - like officE said - there will be a "Load roar".

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Jan 5, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

If this rumor had any substance, and I assume it doesn't, isn't it a little scary in another way? Doesn't it, potentially, mean the Giants are going to consign Hennessey, Correia, AND Sanchez to the bull pen? zHennessey I am OK with. Correia, I would not be opposed to a shot at starting. Sanchez, I am very excited about as a starter. Even if they gave him til the trading deadline and he wasn't the nasty pitcher he showed last year, I would feel they gave him a shot. But to take away a real shot at starter after dancing at the end of Alou's yo-yo last year would be very disappointing.

by allfrank on Jan 4, 2007 12:40 PM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Hennessey & Correia are, at best, relievers and relatively marginal ones at that. Neither one should be in the rotation. Sanchez, maybe, but I have a gut instinct that he would be much better as a reliever. What this would do would be to give the Giants some leverage to trade one of their pitchers......Lowry....for some young offensive help.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 1:01 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

First off I have to agree with you that Hennessey is better as a reliever. He seems to gain a few mph on his pitches witch makes him that much better of a pitcher. Correia I have to dissagree with though. He has shown that he has nasty stuff and was able to control it last year moderately well. I think he could be a good 5th starter for the Giants. Sanchez could be a good 3rd starter for the Giants later on, maybe an excellent 5th starter this year. I'm not quite sure where you're going with the trade idea at the end though. If you do that you still have to put one of Hennessey, Correia, or Sanchez into the rotation if you lose Lowry, unless you expect Russ Ortiz or Damian Moss to be up with the big club too.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Correia's 3-year splits:

As a starter: 6.09 ERA, .296 BAA, 1.69 WHIP

As a reliever: 3.61 ERA, .249 BAA, 1.29 WHIP

by English Professor on Jan 4, 2007 2:23 PM PST up reply actions

Yes..

But didn't Correia look different last year? By all means he beat out Wright in Spring Training and was still put in the bullpen. He almost was the go to guy until Accardo was shipped last year it seems.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Yes..

Yeah, I agree. He looked much better last year...as a reliever.

by English Professor on Jan 4, 2007 2:35 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Yes..

A much better idea. His fastball is very good when used in short relief, and everything he throws has good movement. I'd like to see him given a shot at the closer position as he showed late last year he just might be the answers to the Giants prayers. I know Bochy likes him, as he and Bochy's son are best of friends. That can't hurt.

yob

by Sayhey on Jan 4, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions

An arm for all occasions, I say

I wouldn't rule out Correia as a starter based on those stats, but the Giants brass probably will.

Most of his relief innings (and that respectable ERA) from the "three-year" period were logged in 2006, a breakthrough year when he wasn't allowed even once to start a game (except in spring training, where he excelled).

by Moggeee on Jan 4, 2007 2:50 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Sanchez also looked much better as a reliever than starter. He's got a good-to-great fastball, but his secondary pitches need work. Perfect situation for a young guy to work out of the bullpen for a year while he hones his change and slider. (Or in an ideal world, hone them at AAA.)

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Jan 4, 2007 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

This is true on the surface, but when he came back up, ostensibly to be a starter, he pitched some long relief, started after a spate of relief appearances. Innothe rwords, Felipe the elder didn't put him into a starter's role, on a starter's schedule. I think the routine of the 5 day schedule is important to a starter - taking it away upsets the balance a pitcher is on.

by allfrank on Jan 4, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Correia is the most overrated pitcher the Giants have. He should be a reliever, period. He could be serviceable in that role. A closer?? Highly doubtful, but it's reasonable to think that he may give you good innings in the 6th & 7th inning role. Once batters see him a second time...it's blast off.

If the Giants were able to extract an arm like Petit for Benitez...highly doubtful...it would give them the ability to move Lowry for offensive help and plug Petit into the rotation. However, I'm expecting that the Marlins will come to their senses.

By the way, I agree with Lefty. Sanchez would be much better in the relief role. His secondary pitches are not yet ready for a starting role.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 3:32 PM PST up reply actions

I'd say something to the contrary..

Correia was the most underrated pitcher the Giants had and has now just become acknowledged.

Right now I can't see Petit being plugged into the rotation. Unless he can turn around his last year's results or pick up some more abilities. Even getting rid of Benitez means that there will be an opening in the Giants bullpen. I'm against it unless we can get an impact position player. That won't happen unless someone's closer loses an arm in the next few months.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 3:51 PM PST up reply actions

Re: I'd say something to the contrary..

An impact position player for Benitez??????? Are you out of your mind? What are you smoking?

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 4:08 PM PST up reply actions

Re: I'd say something to the contrary..

Ummm...

That won't happen unless someone's closer loses an arm in the next few months.

I think he's smoking some salmon, at worst.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

That's crazy talk. Correia was legitimately good last year, replaceing Lowry with Petit is more of a downgrade than I could handle consnidering (it was a typo, but I kind of like it) it won't possibly bring back enough offense to make it worth it.

I think Sanchez will have more success as a reliever this year, but I think he'll go a lot farther as a starter. He had his year in the bullpen, he knows what major league hitting is, and the rest of the rotation is s-o-l-i-d. There's no better time to give him a shot than '07, even though I hear it's pretty up in the air.

His secondary pitches do need work, but he didn't have to use them when he was in the bullpen last year and they didn't get any better because of it.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 4:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Lowry is probably at his most marketable right now....before he has the chance to screw it up by pitdhing again. He is young, left-handed, and signed to a relatively cheap long term contract. He is not eleigible for arbitration for some time. All those things in today's market should bring back a solid position player. Alas, the Giants will not trade him, however, and he will end up tossing up another 4.50+ ERA and 1.40 WHIP and ruin whatever market value he has.

Sanchez, while he has raw ability, is not yet ready to be a major league starter yet. The Giants would be better served by keeping him in the pen this year or lettin him stay in the minors all season and start down there.

I'm not sure that our rotation is s-o-l-i-d as you seem to think. Not with Morris and possibly Hennessey pitching every 5th day.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 4, 2007 5:32 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Do you think Sabean wasn't trying to work a trade with Lowry all offseason? Of course he was. We had exactly two (maybe three is you include Correia) players worth trading and he was one of them. Of course he tried. There was nothing that he could get that would lift the offense enough to make it more worth it than scraping the bottom of free agency.

Zito's going to be fine. Cain can only get better (I say, ignoring the painful fact that it's not necessarily true), Lowry should be much better, I think Morris will be fine, not the Morris of old, but fine, and I don't mind giving the fifth spot to a young guy with those other four just to see what we have in Sanchez. I am optimistic about the pitching staff, but I think (and others do as well) that I have reason to be.

I'm not saying the Rotation will be great. Not a diamond in the bunch (Cain still has time before he's diamond quality), but a lot of other, pretty hard rocks or something that makes this imagery work.

Besides, if we trade Lowry for hitting and put Petit in his place, we still have the fifth hole open that Sanchennessorreia will have to fill, so you'll probably still see "Morris and possibly Hennessey pitching every fifth day" except with another unproven starter in the mix to boot. Your argument isn't making sense.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 4, 2007 6:09 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

All the pitching in the world isn't going to help you one iota if you can't score runs. The offense that the Giants are going to put on the field this year....when they're able to play...is going to be anemic, at best. Asdd that to the fact that Lowry just isn't that good adds up to the conclusion that they should have moved him this off season. Do I believe that Sabean tried to move him? Absolutely not, unless you want to count offering him in a package for Manny Ramirez. Yeah, right... the Red Sox were going to jump at that offer.[heavy sarcasm inserted here]

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 5, 2007 8:51 AM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

I'm going to keep repeating this: In 2004 and 2005, Lowry was every bit as good as Barry Zito. I don't know if he can get back to that level, but he's under contract for the next three or four years and he's cheap. If you trade him away, you better get someone really, really good in return.

by Evan on Jan 5, 2007 9:10 AM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Excuse me, but Lowry has regressed substantially in 2006 and is looking like the league has caught up to him. In case you weren't paying attention, he had a 4.74 ERA and 1.40 WHIP last year. Not exactly Cy Young material. More like Jamey Wright. Comparable to Zito? I don't know if that is saying something good about Lowry or bad about Zito. In either case, this is a guy that is getting worse, not better, which is a disturbing trend for a young pitcher. He's not as valuable as you are making him out to be.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 5, 2007 10:19 AM PST up reply actions

So we have a blindspot

I see only the August Lowry, and I am a believer.

I also see that Lowry salary, and it makes me very devout.

by Moggeee on Jan 5, 2007 10:42 AM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

Until seeing him in 2008, I'm staying with the assumption that last year's oblique injury was the main culprit behind Lowry's drop-off.

His and Morris'/Morris's rib injury are big reasons why I'm optimistic about next seasons'/seasons's rotation.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2007 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

True Excitement

I'm looking forward to next season's / seasons' / seasons's grammar thread.

by Moggeee on Jan 5, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions

Since when is one year..

A trend? Not exactly Cy Young material? Who do you want in the rotation for the Giants? Santana, Oswalt, Carpenter, Webb and Holladay? Things aren't going to work out that way. Look at other teams rotations and you see Zito/Cain/Lowry/Morris/Sanchennereia looks like it's a very good rotation and if the rookies continue to improve and Morris does as well then it will be even a great rotation.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 5, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

If he's not as valuable as I'm making him out to be in the how in the freaking world were we supposed to get anybody better than Pedro Feliz for him??? Your arguments are becoming circuitous and coming back on themselves with every pass.

What you're suggesting is trading Mando for Petit (an upgrade in its own right), Trading Lowry for nothing (Feliz-esque = nothing; big downgrade), having nothing start in the field and bat third (actually, a downgrade), and starting Petit in missing Lowry's place (big downgrade from my POV, regular downgrade from your POV).

So our hitting is at best the same and our pitching is worse. That does not = improvement. And this is true even if Lowry isn't good, as I seem to think he is.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 5, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

I never suggested that we trade Lowry for nothing. I did suggest that we should trade Lowry now while his perceived value is much higher than his actual value and before other team's come to that realization. His perceived value is high for the reasons that I stated (1) he's young, (2) left-handed, (3) not arbitration eligible for some time and (4) signed to a relatively long-term contract that is cheap in today's market. All of that should add up to a decent offensive upgrade, whether they are current starters or top flight prospects, not a Feliz-type player.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Jan 5, 2007 3:03 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

What's the guarantee that Petit is going to match or even come close to Lowry's numbers? You can point to '06 all you want, but his other 2 seasons in the Majors show that he's far better than his injury plagued performance last year. I'll give the guy with big league success the benefit of the doubt.

An upgrade in offense can immediately take place if Bochy acknowledges Feliz's role as a bench warmer/defensive replacement. Or if we can trade Sweeney and sign Craig Wilson, but that won't happen.

Remember, Brian Sabean is running this team. Any help Lowry brings back is negated by Sabean's wacky standards for good hitting. We'll just end up with Shea Hillenbrand or A.J. Pierzynski again.

Brian Sabean for President! Whatever keeps him away from the Giants.

by Punch Rockgroin on Jan 5, 2007 11:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: An arm for all occasions, I say

I guess this just comes down to what we think Lowry would have gotten us if he were traded this offseason. I seem to think he did not or would not have brought back enough to make a sizable impact on offense, and you seem to think that he would have.

So that makes sense. We can argue that point to the end of the world and never know for sure. I guess that's that.

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Jan 7, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions

I'm sure getting rid of Benitez is great and all..

But this prospect you're getting back has even less credentials than Zito does! From what I've read the scouts don't know how he does it with such marginal stuff. Last season he struggled greatly, with his K/9 going down from 10+ to 6. Perhaps him hiding the ball works in A and AA but it hasn't seemed to work at AAA and the major leage level. Sure it's great getting something for Benitez, but I think with proper coaching he can still succeed. I think much of his downfall was with Felipe Alou and his "coaching." Even if Felipe finally got tough with him late last season, he would still baby him prior to that.

Here's to a good 2007. Or 2008. Or 2009. Or 2010. Or...

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions

... Benitez is great and all..

Question: If he were a free agent, what would he get? More or less than Gagne? Piniero?

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

I have no idea, but I love the way you say, "Question:..". It reminds me of Qwight Schrute in "The Office". (My favorite show.)

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

The Office, and Battlestar Galactica, might make me get a DVR.

Though I don't really want to sound like Dwight

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

"The Office" returns tonight, on NBC. I should check up on Dwight's blog.

by Skaldheim on Jan 4, 2007 3:21 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

I anticipate greatly.

LicenseToPills: barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

by Natto on Jan 4, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

The little woman and I rented the Season 1 & 2 DVDs whilst on vaction and laughed our respective arses off. I have no idea why they don't just include the deleted scenes each week and extend it to an hour. It's not like they're outtakes. They're typically just as good as what's left in.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 4, 2007 3:53 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

Alas, I will be working late. And as of yet, I have not been able to figure out bittorent. Not that I adovocate using it for anything other than material in the public domain.

The Dodgers are evil.

by irwin on Jan 4, 2007 4:27 PM PST up reply actions

Re: ... Benitez is great and all..

See it if you can! Good episode; Michael returns from Jamaica.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2007 7:59 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

There's no reason for the Marlins to do this before Mando proves himself in spring training. Petit is an interesting prospect but not as good as some folks here think. He was very highly rated several years ago in the Mets organization but several others passed him on their charts and it's telling they found him expendable.

by NearestNorwich on Jan 4, 2007 6:53 PM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

It's just one man's opinion, but Kevin Goldstein's Marlins report listed 14 young pitchers in the Florida system (9 prospects and 5 non-rookies), and didn't even mention Petit, who has given up homers at an alarming rate over the past two years.

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Jan 4, 2007 7:05 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Unlike Mando who has been just nails. But seriously does it really matter at this point? The guy just has to be gone, like yesterday's disposable diapers. If Petit can throw some BP in ST its good for me.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 4, 2007 7:28 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Have we really talked this much about Mando without some artwork?

by jckessler on Jan 4, 2007 7:24 PM PST reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

This will be the number one image on YouTube during baseball season. It will adorn thousands of t-shirts, kiddy pajamas, and Rosie Odonell's thong underwear.

Natto will retire within a year off the royalties, buy the Giants from Magowan, and give all of us free luxury boxes for life as a token of his appreciation.

Save The Pitcher. Save The World

by E Ticket on Jan 4, 2007 7:31 PM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

YES !!

With Barry back, what could go wrong?

by Rusty the Mechanical Man on Jan 5, 2007 9:25 AM PST up reply actions

Re: File under: Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Natto,
You should have dressed Manso up like Santa during the holiday season.

Biggest mankinder in the history of no brain.

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2007 10:53 AM PST up reply actions

Complete Your Spoonerisms!

Manso's like Dante.

(Both created Infernos.)

by Moggeee on Jan 5, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions

Brilliant!

Man, that was a missed opportunity to cash in during the holiday season.

LicenseToPills: barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

by Natto on Jan 5, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions

The Grinch that Stole Our PostSeason

by Moggeee on Jan 5, 2007 2:18 PM PST up reply actions

Idiot Unleashed

Nat , if you can get that onto a T-shirt , I will not only buy it - I'll pay whatever the screening charges were. (For one shirt , I'm no....um...)
Shipping , too...unless you - or others of your Coven brethren - are , as they say , coming to ST in PHX.
I will wear it to the hotel the Giants stay at...and I will photograph Mando's reaction when he sees it.

I'm dead serious.

Then it all came rushing back to me - like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist!

by victor frankenstein on Jan 5, 2007 5:59 PM PST up reply actions