Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: More Televised Winter Baseball, Please

wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books

I was doing my usual not-working/perusing the internet thing at work today and came across this gem on ESPN Page 2's website. This is an excerpt from the new book "The Echoing Green" by Joshua Prager detailing the events leading up to "The Shot Heard Round the World". Not only do I plan on buying the book, but I thought it provided an opporunity to share some Baseball books that some of you readers may recommend. I have a few names, but would like to leave it open for you guys to throw some out there. In the meantime, please enjoy this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=prager/060912

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

Comment 25 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Re: wow. just got the chills
For those who like fiction as well as non-, Don Delillo brilliantly recreated this game in a long short story called "Pafko At the Wall" which he later adapted into the preface to his gargantuan novel Underworld.  That story, along with John Updike's essay "Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu" are, I think, the greatest writings on baseball I've ever encountered.

by Roger on Sep 12, 2006 12:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
I only got through 400 pages of Underworld. Tell me, did I miss out on much? Aside from the other 400 pages, I mean.

by lunaticfridge on Sep 12, 2006 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
not a great read imho, I definitely took some pride in finishing it, but I feel it could have been condensed by at least 25%
I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 12, 2006 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
No, I thought the Preface was by far the best part of it. Although I always love the way Delillo strings out a sentence.

by Roger on Sep 12, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
I disagree. Underworld is DeLillo's masterpiece. Much better than the highly amusing but less thoughtful White Noise.
Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Sep 12, 2006 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
white noise was a book that i just raced through. not a dull moment for me. I think my problem with underworld is the fact that the preface outperforms the rest of the novel. I found myself waiting for something to live up to the preface the entire time I read it, and left feeling unsatisified.
I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 12, 2006 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
Should I assume some of his shorter novels -- Mao II and White Noise (I hear it got turned into a Michael Keaton movie OMG!!!) -- are better? I just remember not liking Delillo's hyperbolically elliptical dialogue, and the prose itself not making an enormous impression upon me.

by lunaticfridge on Sep 12, 2006 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
I'm gonna side with "Libra" as the masterpiece, myself. I love his hyperbolically elliptical dialogue (James Ellroy's, too), but I did think "Underworld" belabored some of his themes. Also Great Jones Street IS the greatest novel ever written about rock and roll (greatest non-fiction, anything by Greil Marcus).

by Roger on Sep 12, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
great jones street is probably up there in my top 5 novels of all time. I think I quantify my favorite novels in terms of the impact they had on my perspective and life in general, and Great Jones Street may fit oddly in with some of my other top 5 novels ie: atlas shrugged.
I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 12, 2006 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
Great Jones Street -- I haven't read it. Will do so ASAP.

A few more notes on Underworld: I agree with all here that the opening is absolutely knockout, and not just 'cause the Giants win the pennant. The only other opening to an epic novel that comes close is Gravity's Rainbow. But w/Underworld, I felt the entire novel sustained the high technical bravura, both line by line and in weaving all the stories together, and the deep exploration of what made/makes post-WW2 America tick.

Never mind whatever I do!!! Fan is my tresure!!!

by leftymalo on Sep 12, 2006 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
Interesting you say that because part of my feelings on Underworld have to do with the fact that I wanted it to be as great as Gravity's Rainbow and I just didn't quite feel it got there. The second half of GR I just felt more and more exhilerated, and I just didn't get there with Underworld. I'll agree he's got about a thousand times more to say about post war America than most of his contemporaries.

For years and years I managed to not read Vineland because I'd heard it was minor-Pynchon, but I recently picked it up and I have to say I was really blown away by it. The concept of the ghost-people was just brilliant.

by Roger on Sep 12, 2006 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
With Underwrold, I was also expecting something more along the lines of Gravity's Rainbow, but even including the preface, Underworld never clicked with me, I think because it lacked the slapstick element in GR.

I haven't read Vineland either, but mostly out of a recent aversion to reading (and a non-plussed encounter with Mason & Dixon), and since Pynchon's got a new novel coming out (hopefully) later this year, I'm even less likely to read Vineland any time soon.

by lunaticfridge on Sep 12, 2006 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills
I only read White Noise from Delillo, and was pretty thoroughly underwhelmed, but it seems like you guys agree it's not a fair judge of his work. Based on this, I might go ahead and pick up Underworld because a guy as well respected as Delillo I'm sure deserves another chance, but I'm still not terribly excited by it.

I actually broke into Pynchon by reading Mason & Mixon and I thought it was fantastic. A wonderfully bizzare epic of American historical fiction with aspects of the millenarian and a surprisingly intimate connection with the author. Lot 49 is next on my list of TP because it's shorter, and I can't wait for Against the Day, which is due out November 1st (although Pynchon is currently in the process of re-writing the first third of it).

Coming to you by proxy

by howtheyscored on Sep 12, 2006 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
thank you, that really wasn't very long ago. my bad.
I wish John Miller would just commentate my life.

by fanofvanlandingham on Sep 12, 2006 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
I could have beat you to this if I didn't stop to format the link!

Lousy degenerate...

"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Sep 12, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
That's why I suggested a short story. Didn't think those had made the list.

by Roger on Sep 12, 2006 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
tk started a good diary on this topic a few weeks ago... that might be a good place to start.
"Robb Nen is going to get you" - Benito Santiago to Chipper Jones, 10/7/02

by Pants Man on Sep 12, 2006 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
ooooh.  Nice one you link formatting, slacks wearing over-achiever.

by the degenerate on Sep 12, 2006 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
I always wondered what Ralph Branca had for breakfast that day.
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes

by stevieg on Sep 12, 2006 12:36 PM PDT reply actions  

A couple more Musts
Leonard Koppett's "The Thinking Fan's Guide to Baseball" and anything by Roger Kahn, such as "Memories of Summer" which -- like all good baseball books -- illuminate a slice of America.

Boswell's "How Life Imitates the World Series" is great, too.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends... meaning the tornado that is being a Giants fan.

by Mayor of 311 on Sep 12, 2006 12:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Re: wow. just got the chills... Baseball Books
For the sabermetric minds out there, I recommend these annuals:  Ron Shandler's Baseball Forecaster (cheap at Amazon, but you get extra goodies if buy direct, about $10 more), Baseball Prospectus if you want something similar to the old Bill James Abstracts (but not as good, imo - then again, will anyone attain his heights again?), The Hardball Times had a good start with their annual and I like their website, particularly all the free data (BP now charges, but THT won't be free forever either), and The Bill James Handbook.

Ron Shandler's group also publishes two other annuals I recommend:  Minor League Baseball Analyst by Deric McKamey and Graphical Pitcher(2006 and before)/Player (from now on, starting 2007) by John Burnson.  The former gives McKamey's estimation of what type of player the prospect will ultimately be based on his training in the MLB scouting program and his saber-tools developed writing for Shandler, plus a lot of prospects and their component stats over the past few years, plus key skills, like pitchers pitches (and how good they are) and the speeds they throw each at, and hitters power, hitting, speed, and defense.  The latter uses graphs predominantly to illustrate a pitcher's career stats and his recent stats, to see how they did, both trends in career and in-season trends.

If you want a book, The Numbers Game by Alan Schmwarz is great for giving you a history of stats in baseball, from the very beginnings to Bill James to Retrosheet.  

Curve Ball, by Jim Albert and Jay Bennett, is great if you want to become well-versed with why, statistically, many of the things are true that sabers like to talk about, like OBP and OPS.  If you want to go beyond that, Jim Albert also wrote a book teaching statistics using baseball stats aptly titled, "Teaching Statistics Using Baseball."

If you like to wallow in history and nostaglia, like I do, I recommend The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, he covers a lot of players in there, writing anywhere from a paragraph to an essay length feature on players who have made a name for themselves in the history of the game.  

If you admire Earl Weaver, I recommend his book, "Weaver on Strategy:  Classic Work on Art of Managing a Baseball Team."  Lots of thought provoking suggestions and he lays out his thinking as a manager out on the pages.  Good read.

And lastly I must note a book I would NOT recommend to anyone except gamblers and perhaps extreme beginners in sabermetrics:  A Mathematician at the Ballpark:  Odds and Probabilities by Ken Ross.  Very thin and small book with large print, goes over rudimentary baseball stats for anybody and spends too much of the book on gambling odds.  Buying this book reminds me of why I loved buying books in stores, I wouldn't have bought this book had I browsed through it in a book store but I bought this through Amazon.  I'm sure he wrote it with a good heart but I feel I was ripped off, it really should have been titled, "Odds and Probabilities for Beginners and Gamblers and, hey, let's use a little baseball for examples".

Oy, back to the sig that was working better: Go Giants: Winn it all with Feliz

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Sep 13, 2006 10:31 AM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Sp-giants21_ph_t_0501991449_part6_small
The McCovey Chronicles Fantasy League, For Money.
Calvin_and_hobbes_small
2012 Adoption Draft: Who's In?
Calvin_and_hobbes_small
2012 Adoption Draft: Rules Discussion
Honus_wagner4_small
Hector & Gregor's Excellent Adventure (In the VWL)
Calvin_and_hobbes_small
Community Prospect List: The Results

Recent FanPosts

T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – College Left Handed Pitchers
Img_0100_small
Cormac McCarthy novel The Road
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – HS Left handed pitchers
Small
Angel Villalona reported to have a work visa
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot – The Catchers
Hidey-fern_small
Hiking on the 18th?
T_36396_small
2012 MLB Draft Snapshot - The Shortstops

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Manager

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant Brisbee

Moderators

Minime_small Natto

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Goofus_small Goofus

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Det_7193_small jponry

Authors

09_small JT Jordan

Small steve S